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US Men's National Team (12 Viewers)

This picture seems to explain why Gonzo might have been ball watching.  He clearly didn't expect Orozco to take up a position 5 yards behind the rest of the defensive line.
I think Gonzo was the 4th in line for blame on that play.

Mix was first for whiffing entirely, Bradley second for probably distracting Mix when jumping and then lowering his head, Orozco 3rd because WTF was he doing keeping Ruiz on there and Gonzo 4th, only because he could not catch Ruiz who had so much room few CB's could have caught him.

Highlights is at 1:11 of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GceEXmmKx8Y

 
That photo Scooby posted is really cool.  Look at Ruiz's anticipation there.  The ball is not even by MIx yet and Ruiz is already starting to sprint.  Look at Orozco's stance in comparison.

 
he has done an excellent job here imo.

It is not his fault that both Zelalem and Green might be busts.  He has had an open door policy and for the most part it seems to be working.

Sadly, our dual nationals are not that much better than what we produce here.  Fab has been the best (Jones was capped under Bradley).
Green and Zegolum are both still kids... I'm not going anywhere near calling them busts. Z is getting minutes in a rough and tumble league learning to be a pro. Green is... something.

 
Another thing that is interesting about the Orozco positioning is that there is no offside on a goal kick.  What is his responsibility there?  Does he hold his line with the other defenders or go with Ruiz who drifted ahead?

 
Green and Zegolum are both still kids... I'm not going anywhere near calling them busts. Z is getting minutes in a rough and tumble league learning to be a pro. Green is... something.
I agree, my wording was too strong.

Z appears to be struggling in Scotland unfortunately.  Here are some comments from fans of the team (note that this is fans, not media or anyone associated with Scottish soccer).  This comes from a Rangers forum

"...personally I think he slows down our midfield and thought we shouldn't renew the loan deal..."

"we are a far better side without him"

"we play at a much higher tempo when he's not involved"

"Should never be near our team or bench , give his place to one of our own young player's"

"...lazy as f---. He is probably chilling on his couch, eating pizza and trying to pronounce his own name."

"Ive said since day 1 zelalem doesnt have the appetite to succeed at rangers. He gets rag dolled and ####es himself from 50/50s."

 
Another thing that is interesting about the Orozco positioning is that there is no offside on a goal kick.  What is his responsibility there?  Does he hold his line with the other defenders or go with Ruiz who drifted ahead?
He needs to hold the line, if the ball bounces in front of the line and through, its not on him. 

DON'T LET THE BALL BOUNCE 

 
Orozco standing still is a problem, but it's not really his fault that the ball came through is it?  Not following why his position caused Gonzo to ball watch?

 
Another thing that is interesting about the Orozco positioning is that there is no offside on a goal kick.  What is his responsibility there?  Does he hold his line with the other defenders or go with Ruiz who drifted ahead?
Right.  The only reason you would try to hold a line there is if you think another Guat player was going to redirect the goal kick through.  You see the one of their players move out of the way so there was no way an offside could have been called.  As soon as they noticed that ball being played that way, more than 1 should have been tracking back.  Awful defending.

 
That photo Scooby posted is really cool.  Look at Ruiz's anticipation there.  The ball is not even by MIx yet and Ruiz is already starting to sprint.  Look at Orozco's stance in comparison.
nice links- that pic RHE posted shows it pretty well. I missed Orozco standing there. woof. Ruiz in full stride, Orozco on his heels waiting for... something.

I think I head the commentators say you can't be offsides on a goal kick? Is that new? I don't remember that being a rule at all.... in fact, I remember doing my best to stay onsides for goal-kicks... but I could've been wrong. Ruiz was certainly offside when the goal kick was taken.

 
I think I head the commentators say you can't be offsides on a goal kick? Is that new? I don't remember that being a rule at all.... in fact, I remember doing my best to stay onsides for goal-kicks... but I could've been wrong. Ruiz was certainly offside when the goal kick was taken.
I think it has been that way for ever (no offside on goal kick if player touches ball directly from goal kick).

I think you can't be offside on a corner or on a throw in either if memory serves.

 
I think it has been that way for ever (no offside on goal kick if player touches ball directly from goal kick).

I think you can't be offside on a corner or on a throw in either if memory serves.
Here is the rule:

Regardless of position, there is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from a corner kick, goal kick, or throw-in. However, an offside offence may occur if a player receives the ball directly from either a direct free kick or an indirect free kick.

From the Wikis

 
Another thing that is interesting about the Orozco positioning is that there is no offside on a goal kick.  What is his responsibility there?  Does he hold his line with the other defenders or go with Ruiz who drifted ahead?
Say what? Is this new?  I played LB all through HS and never new this.

 
Steve Nicol has some strong comments on ESPNFC.

He said, emphatically, that he has worked with Sunil closely in the past (Sunil helped out with the Revs for many years back in Nicol's coaching time), and that he believes that the only way JK gets fired is the exact moment they are eliminated from the WC. 

He said he could not see it happening any other way.

 
Here is the rule:

Regardless of position, there is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from a corner kick, goal kick, or throw-in. However, an offside offence may occur if a player receives the ball directly from either a direct free kick or an indirect free kick.

From the Wikis
I knew about the throw ins.  Corners make sense because the ball is already at the end of the field (offside rules also relate to ball positioning as anyone behind the ball is onside always).  Just didn't know about goal kicks.  I'm not positive but I don't think it was this way when I was in HS 20+ years ago.

 
In somewhat better news, our U17s beat France in the final of a pretty loaded youth tournament.  Timothy Weah played for the Yanks (and scored in the final) but the star was apparently George Acosta with 6 goals in four games.  This golazo won the tournament. 

 
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This isn't just on JK, but also on Gulati and USSoccer as a whole-

What exactly is the process for USSoccer to identify American youths for USMNT development? Is it Olympic Development Program(ODP)? Is it the MLS academies? The private academies (i.e. IMG) Is it something else entirely? Does the answer vary by state/region?

I have had 2 sons play soccer for years(nowhere near that level) and the answer does not appear clearer to me than it was a decade ago.

One downside of bringing in all of the foreign born players is that it doesn't show the current U14 kids, what the route is that we want you to take if you want to get noticed and develop thru the national program. I'm sure there are players that have risen up through the national U18 thru U23 teams to the senior team but I can't recall any off the top of my head.

 
In somewhat better news, our U17s beat France in the final of a pretty loaded youth tournament.  Timothy Weah played for the Yanks (and scored in the final) but the star was apparently George Acosta with 6 goals in four games.  This golazo won the tournament. 
Little brother to Kellen?  That FC Dallas youth program is really starting to produce.  

 
I knew about the throw ins.  Corners make sense because the ball is already at the end of the field (offside rules also relate to ball positioning as anyone behind the ball is onside always).  Just didn't know about goal kicks.  I'm not positive but I don't think it was this way when I was in HS 20+ years ago.
yeah- ditto. I remember playing forward in my teens (30+ years ago) and doing my best to stay onsides on the goal kick. and the defenders doing their best to run the trap. I guess we were all wrong.

 
In somewhat better news, our U17s beat France in the final of a pretty loaded youth tournament.  Timothy Weah played for the Yanks (and scored in the final) but the star was apparently George Acosta with 6 goals in four games.  This golazo won the tournament. 
great goal- thanks for the link.

plus he's got the prototypical US player's first touch.

 
This isn't just on JK, but also on Gulati and USSoccer as a whole-

What exactly is the process for USSoccer to identify American youths for USMNT development? Is it Olympic Development Program(ODP)? Is it the MLS academies? The private academies (i.e. IMG) Is it something else entirely? Does the answer vary by state/region?

I have had 2 sons play soccer for years(nowhere near that level) and the answer does not appear clearer to me than it was a decade ago.

One downside of bringing in all of the foreign born players is that it doesn't show the current U14 kids, what the route is that we want you to take if you want to get noticed and develop thru the national program. I'm sure there are players that have risen up through the national U18 thru U23 teams to the senior team but I can't recall any off the top of my head.
jozy, LD, DMB, Beckerman, etc, etc. 

 
yeah- ditto. I remember playing forward in my teens (30+ years ago) and doing my best to stay onsides on the goal kick. and the defenders doing their best to run the trap. I guess we were all wrong.
I was confused enough that I double checked the Laws of the Game.  No offsides on goal kicks.  Makes little sense to me, but what do I know?

 
What exactly is the process for USSoccer to identify American youths for USMNT development? Is it Olympic Development Program(ODP)? Is it the MLS academies? The private academies (i.e. IMG) Is it something else entirely? Does the answer vary by state/region?
it is an extremely complex topic because of the size of our nation and the relative newness of the MLS academy system.

Even once the MLS academy system is fully up and running, that does not even really make a dent in covering the country.  Mexico also specializes in going after a ton of our Mexican American youth players.

 
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it is an extremely complex topic because of the size of our nation and the relative newness of the MLS academy system.

Even once the MLS academy system is fully up and running, that does not even really make a dent in covering the country.  Mexico also specializes in going after a ton of our Mexican American youth players.
I imagine with the rise of the MLS academies, that we'll see most of the top players slot into those. Same players will also be part of the ODP system... at a guess and wihtout understanding how the ODP system works.  eta: I'm also going to assume this is only the beginning of what we'll see from the Meskin FA... will be more and more of tippy-top talent heading south, IMO.

[curmudgeon] in my day, it was a pretty clear and direct path at the youth level- local, district, state, region, nation.  you didn't see guys at the upper levels bypass the lower ones, although every now and then there'd be some random national look-see at state players for one-off games etc. otherwise if you weren't on the regional team, you weren't making the national team. senior national team... no idea. mostly college players back then and random MISL or foreign player. and frankfurters cost a nickel. [/curmudgeon]

 
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funny seeing the Fox Soccer news team out there again (they were just terrible on that nightly news program, as much as I loved it). and I guess terri got some contacts. and by "contacts" I mean doesn't wear glasses any more and had giant boobs installed inside her chest.
Well. Good call by her.

 
great post @Rustoleum

As someone who wants to see the US continue to try and become a more possession oriented team, how do we get around your acknowledgement that the team lacks touch?

 Do you feel that if the make up of the team was changed (bringing in players who are stronger on the ball like say Sacha or Benny) would help, or do you think we just need to suck it up and realize to make this change we might have to take two steps back to take three forward?

Typically I like the long term approach but the selfish fan in me does not want to see that change process cost us a trip to the WC which will have negative ramifications up and down soccer in the US.
I guess I'm secretly hoping for the best both worlds - take some lumps now and hopefully still eke out a WC trip. 

The youth programs better have a pipeline of players learning nothing but a possession oriented game coming through to back this up though..or it's going to be a rough decade or so repairing the damage.

 
My thought process is likely biased from following too many American sports structures but if I was to choose, I think I would prefer the Technical Director to act as a GM.

He should be responsible for setting the course and direction of the entire program from the U14 to the senior side and should be responsible for all long term development decisions. 

He should also be responsible for hiring all the coaches in the system to make sure his vision is followed through. 

He should tour the country almost non stop visiting every academy and top ranked club in the land offering advice and guidance on how to make sure things align as well as they can with those enterprises that might have slightly different goals.

I have never been comfortable with the US Soccer president being the guy who hires and fires the coach.  I would prefer the president only hire and fire the TD if possible and let the TD make all coaching decisions, obviously following what ever budget has has been given by the board of directors.

 
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Local reports indicate that later today the city and the Jaguars will announce that the USMNT WCQ vs T&T on Sept 6th will be played in Jacksonville 

 
A personal anecdote regarding the MLS academy system -- I was talking with some friends last weekend. One of the guy's son's teammates was recently accepted at the Real Salt Lake academy in Arizona. The cost for room, board and school is about $30,000. The dad has a successful company here, so the mom is moving with the son (and I think bringing the other sibling with her). Its hard to imagine what is going through their minds with this. Then one guy in our discussion parrots the old saw about our best young athletes playing football and basketball instead of soccer, and I'm standing there kind of dumbfounded. Understanding there are multiple channels to work through the system, it seems the academy process eliminates 99% of all young players from participation from the start.

 
I also have a friend here in Milwaukee who played for every level of US National teams throughout his youth - traveling all over the world and playing with many of the famous names we all know, roomed with Altidore, etc. He was in the FC Dallas system, was offered a trial at Liverpool and had a scholarship offer at Duke. Guess which offer he took? I think its a pretty easy decision. Now he's a law student, used to play for our MASL indoor team to make some extra cash, but says its hard on his knees and he earns better interning at a local law firm. Can easily walk on to the highest level soccer club team in our area and instantly be the best player on the field whenever he likes, which he does occasionally for fun, but its at most a casual interest for him these days.

 
. Understanding there are multiple channels to work through the system, it seems the academy process eliminates 99% of all young players from participation from the start.
I wish I could find my post from last year.  I did some research to determine what the cost was for academies in MLS to the young players.  Many were free, some were very low cost and then a couple were very expensive, like RSL and DC United and Philly.

The huge range in cost comes from the residency  schools I think.

When you go to Philly or RSL you are not just going to daily practices and games.  It is a full emersion into a school, with a room and board setup.

Dallas has a hybrid system which keeps the cost down as they use a school system but the kids still live at home.

The residency issue again speaks to the size issue in our country as residency is required for kids who live too far away.

 
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I feel like I should be more nervous about tonight but I am not.

Whether that is because of confidence or numbness I am unsure.
Almost to the point that I'm really not sure what to root for. 90% of me says sure root for the win. 10% of me wants to see total implosion forcing sweeping changes.

(100% of me wants to see Pulisic and other younger players play and pay well)

Personally think they'll play much better and get an ugly win which leaves people wondering "What now?"

 
Rooting for total implosion and missing the world cup is bat#### insane IMO. There are few things more fun in sport than the run up to the World Cup, even knowing the US has no chance to win it. 

 
I'm envisioning 4-0/5-1.

Even with a disjointed team that put out a crap performance we probably had the better chances Saturday and both their goals were sloppy/flukey.

 
Almost to the point that I'm really not sure what to root for. 90% of me says sure root for the win. 10% of me wants to see total implosion forcing sweeping changes.

(100% of me wants to see Pulisic and other younger players play and pay well)

Personally think they'll play much better and get an ugly win which leaves people wondering "What now?"
While this is not ten years ago where it might have been a kill shot, missing the WC would still have big ramifications for the sport in our country.

This is not akin to your local club team imploding and starting over which is done all the time across the various sports.

 
Yeah,just can't root for us to miss the cup. Not a chance. This isn't like root for your nba team to tank for a lottery pick. We're talking an 8 year gap between world cup games. No thanks

 
wdcrob said:
I'm envisioning 4-0/5-1.

Even with a disjointed team that put out a crap performance we probably had the better chances Saturday and both their goals were sloppy/flukey.
I agree with their sloppy / flukey goals but the issue is our back line is such dog poop that they constantly seem to allow goals just like it.

i think a 2-0 win at home seems right but I also feel like I push out of my memory how bad they look, look at the names and think we should win this and then 5 minutes in will be down 1-0 thinking omg this is such trash!

rooting for us to win although am done with jk...apparently the last 5 years in all sports I am destined to hate my coaches with white hot passion.

 
NewlyRetired said:
While this is not ten years ago where it might have been a kill shot, missing the WC would still have big ramifications for the sport in our country.

This is not akin to your local club team imploding and starting over which is done all the time across the various sports.
Yeah, and I don't think this is hyperbole but if the us misses the wc that would eliminate all of the past 25 years of progress in soccer. Cannot happen.

 
Yeah, and I don't think this is hyperbole but if the us misses the wc that would eliminate all of the past 25 years of progress in soccer. Cannot happen.
Only time will tell but I don't think/hope it would be that dramatic.

I don't see people all of sudden giving up watching the EPL or going to MLS games totally.

I do see a slowing of sponsorships and investments in the sport (which have been free flowing this past decade) and that will have a ripple down affect.

For example, if the US women are constantly complaining about how they are treated, they are going to be in for a world of hurt if the mens WC money disappears and sponsorship slows.

 
SiriusXM FC ‎@SiriusXMFC


"The sense I get, and I talk to a lot of the players, is that there's no confidence because there's no stability." - @landondonovan


 
====================
 
I did not hear the quote so I am unsure of the exact context but Landon should acknowledge that there may be a chicken and egg problem with his statement.
 
You can't have stability when every other game you are putting up an historic type poor result.  As many problems as JK has, it is hard to fault him for trying different things during a long string of bad results.   
 
The better arguement/discussion point for me is whether he is making the right amount and choices of changes.

 
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SiriusXM FC ‎@SiriusXMFC


"The sense I get, and I talk to a lot of the players, is that there's no confidence because there's no stability." - @landondonovan


 
====================
 
I did not hear the quote so I am unsure of the exact context but Landon should acknowledge that there may be a chicken and egg problem with his statement.
 
You can't have stability when every other game you are putting up an historic type poor result.  As many problems as JK has, it is hard to fault him for trying different things during a long string of bad results.   
 
The better arguement/discussion point for me is whether he is making the right amount and choices of changes.
The other point is that it's hard to have any stability with the number of injuries especially with the backline that they've had.  I'm sure in the run-up to Friday, the plan was Besler/Brooks and practices were centered around expecting that.  Well Besler goes down with a concussion in training and Brooks, well god knows what the real story is there.  So they're left scrambling to put a CB pairing in place, etc. 

Yeah, in an ideal world it shouldn't be an issue/guys should be able to respond, etc, but it does impact the team's stability.

 

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