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DE J.J. Watt - Retired (1 Viewer)

Greg Russell said:
Was just looking at some stats. Watt is 2.5 sacks ahead of Reggie White at the same point in their career. Reggie was playing against USFL players his first two seasons.
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This has an awful lot to do with the fact that 17 of the top 20 seasons of all time for pass attempts are after Reggie retired.

 
Freelove said:
TDorBust said:
FUBAR said:
Freelove said:
You can't avoid the contributions of a Rodgers or Murray. You can muster your resources to try to minimize their impact (just as teams muster double teams to try to minimize a Watt), but the QB and RB are still going to do hundreds of plays worth of damage, and the records and overall strengths of the units they play on reflect the impact -- and thus the value those contributions have to generating wins and preventing losses.
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Help me understand your point here.Are you saying a defense can't focus on the rb every bit as much as an offense could game plan for the DE?
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I think that's what he is saying and I believe it.
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A defense can certainly focus on stopping an RB, but that doesn't stop him from successfully contributing his specific yardage gaining skill 300 or more times a year. There are even some games where great RB's (or QB's) are successfully limited in what they accomplish.But even the best DL, no matter how successful he is at winning individual battles and beating schemes, only contributes his specific offense-thwarting actions 80 or so times a year.

To make the case that such a player has as much value to his team as a prolific offensive player such as a workhorse RB or star QB, you'd have to show that all the times he wasn't making plays, he was commanding so much attention that it was elevating the rest of his unit to elite levels. With HOU, that was clearly not the case, because they simply weren't an elite D by any meaningful metric.

I'm quite sure the rest of HOU's D was better than they would have been with a replacement level DE instead, but while helping to raise the overall level of your unit to mediocrity is nothing to sneeze at, it's also not the stuff of "most valuable in the entire league." :shrug:

Best player? Sure. Most valuable? Hard to make the case.
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We're just going to have to agree to disagree here.

If you really think that Watt only contributes 5 plays per game, we're watching a different game.

You seem to be saying an RB is more valuable than a DE even if the offense that RB plays on is not elite, while holding the DE to a higher standard. Your logic also seems to indicate that offensive linemen can't be as valuable as a RB, unless their offense is "elite".

I guess that's one way to look at it, but NFL GMs clearly value these positions differently.

Twelve DL salaries were $10 Million or more in 2014 (eight DE)

One RB had a salary of $10 Million or more in 2014

jj-watt-makes-2014-nfl-all-pro-team-twice

 
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Took a look at Watt's contract vs. Suh's:

Watt - 5 years/$54M ($10.8M average) guaranteed (except for ~$2M), non-guaranteed $13M (2019), $15.5M (2020), $17.5M (2021)

Suh - 3 years/$60M ($20M average) guaranteed, non-guaranteed $17M (2018), $19M (2019), $18M (2020)

 
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cstu said:
Took a look at Watt's contract vs. Suh's:

Watt - 5 years/$54M ($10.8M average) guaranteed (except for ~$2M), non-guaranteed $13M (2019), $15.5M (2020), $17.5M (2021)

Suh - 3 years/$60M ($20M average) guaranteed, non-guaranteed $17M (2018), $19M (2019), $18M (2020)
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what a difference a year makes. Watt doesn't seem to be a guy who would hold out for more money but he deserves it.

He makes a lot in endorsements

 
FUBAR said:
cstu said:
Took a look at Watt's contract vs. Suh's:

Watt - 5 years/$54M ($10.8M average) guaranteed (except for ~$2M), non-guaranteed $13M (2019), $15.5M (2020), $17.5M (2021)

Suh - 3 years/$60M ($20M average) guaranteed, non-guaranteed $17M (2018), $19M (2019), $18M (2020)
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what a difference a year makes. Watt doesn't seem to be a guy who would hold out for more money but he deserves it.

He makes a lot in endorsements
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The endorsements are huge. Houston loves him and I think he is pretty well thought of nationally. He was very smart in the deal he signed. He will make really good money but he didn't hamstring the Texans from being able to sign other big contracts in a year or two. If the Texans are successful that only helps his ability to get endorsements. If he has a great career on a relevant team, his endorsements will last well past his playing days. This will pay him a lot more over time than if he had tried to squeeze every last dime out of the Texans with this contract.
 
FUBAR said:
cstu said:
Took a look at Watt's contract vs. Suh's:

Watt - 5 years/$54M ($10.8M average) guaranteed (except for ~$2M), non-guaranteed $13M (2019), $15.5M (2020), $17.5M (2021)

Suh - 3 years/$60M ($20M average) guaranteed, non-guaranteed $17M (2018), $19M (2019), $18M (2020)
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what a difference a year makes. Watt doesn't seem to be a guy who would hold out for more money but he deserves it.

He makes a lot in endorsements
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I think Houston was very smart to re-sign him when they did. He still had years left on his deal so they had some leverage there, plus the salary cap was still artificially flattened by the players. The jump from last year to this seems a big one given that flattening that kept it around $120m for several years. By the end of the deal it's not going to be a big amount at all.

 
Greg Russell said:
FUBAR said:
cstu said:
Took a look at Watt's contract vs. Suh's:

Watt - 5 years/$54M ($10.8M average) guaranteed (except for ~$2M), non-guaranteed $13M (2019), $15.5M (2020), $17.5M (2021)

Suh - 3 years/$60M ($20M average) guaranteed, non-guaranteed $17M (2018), $19M (2019), $18M (2020)
Click to expand...
what a difference a year makes. Watt doesn't seem to be a guy who would hold out for more money but he deserves it.

He makes a lot in endorsements
Click to expand...
I think Houston was very smart to re-sign him when they did. He still had years left on his deal so they had some leverage there, plus the salary cap was still artificially flattened by the players. The jump from last year to this seems a big one given that flattening that kept it around $120m for several years. By the end of the deal it's not going to be a big amount at all.
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Houston had leverage because he was the 11th pick in the draft and the 5th year option would only have been ~$7M. His deal paid him much more for 2014 and 2015 than he would have earned by playing out his contract.

I wrote a thread on it here. All of the 11-32 1st round picks are extremely valuable under the new CBA because of 5th year option.

 
Raider Nation said:
Fantastic read here.

I'm so pumped up to own the Texans D this year.
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The Texans D has a good chance to be really good this year. Adding Wilfork, possibly a healthy Clowney, Cushing back at full health, and a good rookie CB in Kevin Johnson to a defense in its second year under an excellent defensive coach in Crennel could produce some great results. Watt is truly an amazing player.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I'm hopeful that the QB switch will help the defense. I'm thinking the Texans DST might be a buy low.
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I think they should get better as they play together more. Wilfork, Watt, and Clowney did not play in preseason at all just to protect them from injury. Last year they were great at forcing TO's and although they didn't have any in game one, I think with pressure from Watt and Clowney, the Turnovers will be there.

 
Actually, Jax's D had 2 sacks, 2 TOs, and only gave up one offensive TD vs Carolina. The Texans probably have a good shot to recover on the road.

 
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