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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (7 Viewers)

bentley said:
NewlyRetired said:
bentley said:
Isn't the rest of the world just going to call this sour grapes for us getting cut out of the WC?
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I think the rest of the world is as fed up with FIFA as we are.
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I might believe that about UEFA but I think the rest of the world and half of CONCACAF treat corruption as part of standard business practice.
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UEFA is more corrupt than any other group imo. Platini might be one of the dirtiest players in the game.

But I was talking about fans around the world not organizations.

 
NewlyRetired said:
bentley said:
NewlyRetired said:
bentley said:
Isn't the rest of the world just going to call this sour grapes for us getting cut out of the WC?
Click to expand...
I think the rest of the world is as fed up with FIFA as we are.
Click to expand...
I might believe that about UEFA but I think the rest of the world and half of CONCACAF treat corruption as part of standard business practice.
Click to expand...
UEFA is more corrupt than any other group imo. Platini might be one of the dirtiest players in the game. But I was talking about fans around the world not organizations.
Click to expand...
And the fans around the world are material to the WC bid process in what way?

 
bentley said:
NewlyRetired said:
bentley said:
NewlyRetired said:
bentley said:
Isn't the rest of the world just going to call this sour grapes for us getting cut out of the WC?
Click to expand...
I think the rest of the world is as fed up with FIFA as we are.
Click to expand...
I might believe that about UEFA but I think the rest of the world and half of CONCACAF treat corruption as part of standard business practice.
Click to expand...
UEFA is more corrupt than any other group imo. Platini might be one of the dirtiest players in the game. But I was talking about fans around the world not organizations.
Click to expand...
And the fans around the world are material to the WC bid process in what way?
Click to expand...
I think we are talking about two different things here. No biggie.

 
Cool. I just don't see how any corruption arrests or charges change anything regarding the way the Feds work. So, as far as I'm concerned, this whole story is a big pile of nothing.

I was really hoping someone could convince me otherwise.

 
bentley said:
Cool. I just don't see how any corruption arrests or charges change anything regarding the way the Feds work. So, as far as I'm concerned, this whole story is a big pile of nothing.

I was really hoping someone could convince me otherwise.
Click to expand...
I don't think it will change much either because the corruption is so ingrained but one could hope that maybe these arrests and more importantly any subsequent prosecution might give someone a moments pause before accepting an envelope in the future.

 
Second probe by Swiss authorities (from bbc):

BREAKINGMore trouble for Fifa?

Posted at 09:35

Swiss legal authorities have announced that criminal proceedings have opened "against persons unknown on suspicion of criminal mismanagement and of money laundering in connection with the allocation of the 2018 and 2022 football World Cups".

Electronic data and documents have been seized from Fifa's head office in Zurich.

 
FIFA reps now have two major nations they can't step foot in. Some of the biggest names in the game are under arrest or indicted in an investigation being led by the FBI. The effing Swiss are looking into financial irregularities using electronic records.

Short of Blatter being lined up in front of a firing squad I'm not sure what else you could be hoping for.

 
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wdcrob said:
Sounds like they've got Chuck Blazer telling them where the bodies are buried too.
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That part is old news. With so many more indicted, however, there are many more opportunities to flip someone else.

Still, my guess is that Blatter allowed the culture of corruption without himself participating. He did vote for the U.S. bid, for instance.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
wdcrob said:
Sounds like they've got Chuck Blazer telling them where the bodies are buried too.
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That part is old news. With so many more indicted, however, there are many more opportunities to flip someone else.

Still, my guess is that Blatter allowed the culture of corruption without himself participating. He did vote for the U.S. bid, for instance.
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Looks like they also have the owner of traffic Sports turning state's evidence.

Guilty pleas, according to Justice, have come from Charles Blazer, former general secretary of CONCACAF and a former U.S. representative on FIFA’s executive committee; Jose Hawilla, owner and founder of Traffic Group, a sports marketing conglomerate based in Brazil; and two of Hawilla’s companies, Traffic Sports International and Traffic Sports USA, based in Florida.
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[SIZE=11pt]http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/05/27/top-fifa-officials-arrested-in-international-soccer-corruption-investigation-according-to-reports/[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Who is Traffic Sports? Primary investor in NASL, that owned three teams at one point.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]http://www.empireofsoccer.com/discussions-carolina-railhawks-34096/[/SIZE]

 
FBI are raiding the Miami Concacaf office right now.

I agree with others that this is just the tip of the ice berg. People are going to start singing like crazy to reduce their own penalties.

 
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At least they are consistent

@SportsCenter: FIFA says there will be no revote of the World Cups won by Russia for 2018 & Qatar for 2022 in light of arrests of FIFA officials.

 
So reading between the lines on the ESPN story, the US gets the CONCACAF/CONMEBOL fraud and the Swiss get the '18 and '22 WC fraud? I guess that makes some sense since I doubt much of the WC fraud happened in the US (which they are alleging in the W Hemisphere corruption). It does leave huge doubts over what if anything will happen with the '18 and '22 WC corruption if it is just left to the Swiss. Blatter must have really pissed someone off there to have them actually arrest and then extradite the Costa Rican guy.

FIFA's statement is absolutely wonderful BTW.

Odds that any WC actually occurs in the US before I die just went to zero. Maybe I'll take the Sammyinho to Mexico in 2026.

 
Sammy3469 said:
Odds that any WC actually occurs in the US before I die just went to zero. Maybe I'll take the Sammyinho to Mexico in 2026.
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It would not shock me if 3 months from now, FIFA finds a reason to take next years 100th Copa off the calendar, allowing clubs to block players from playing.

 
Sammy3469 said:
So reading between the lines on the ESPN story, the US gets the CONCACAF/CONMEBOL fraud and the Swiss get the '18 and '22 WC fraud? I guess that makes some sense since I doubt much of the WC fraud happened in the US (which they are alleging in the W Hemisphere corruption). It does leave huge doubts over what if anything will happen with the '18 and '22 WC corruption if it is just left to the Swiss. Blatter must have really pissed someone off there to have them actually arrest and then extradite the Costa Rican guy.

FIFA's statement is absolutely wonderful BTW.

Odds that any WC actually occurs in the US before I die just went to zero. Maybe I'll take the Sammyinho to Mexico in 2026.
Click to expand...
If any US banks or ISP's were used then even the '18/'22 bids can be tried by the US. I think that's a weak leg to stand on, but it is the law. This is one time where the enormous size of our banks could help.

 
NewlyRetired said:
At least they are consistent

@SportsCenter: FIFA says there will be no revote of the World Cups won by Russia for 2018 & Qatar for 2022 in light of arrests of FIFA officials.
Click to expand...
That's what they are saying now...interestingly the US part doesn't include the WC fraud. That's left (conveniently or maybe not) to the Swiss authorities.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/05/15/swiss-to-broaden-anti-corruption-laws-make-bribery-illegal-in-olympic-or-world/

My guess is they'll want to flex this new law if it is retroactive.

 
No reason at all. These guys are just beyond awesome

@KeirRadnedge: FIFA says no reason why congress and the presidential election should not go ahead as planned

 
Poke_4_Life said:
Sammy3469 said:
So reading between the lines on the ESPN story, the US gets the CONCACAF/CONMEBOL fraud and the Swiss get the '18 and '22 WC fraud? I guess that makes some sense since I doubt much of the WC fraud happened in the US (which they are alleging in the W Hemisphere corruption). It does leave huge doubts over what if anything will happen with the '18 and '22 WC corruption if it is just left to the Swiss. Blatter must have really pissed someone off there to have them actually arrest and then extradite the Costa Rican guy.

FIFA's statement is absolutely wonderful BTW.

Odds that any WC actually occurs in the US before I die just went to zero. Maybe I'll take the Sammyinho to Mexico in 2026.
Click to expand...
If any US banks or ISP's were used then even the '18/'22 bids can be tried by the US. I think that's a weak leg to stand on, but it is the law. This is one time where the enormous size of our banks could help.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but the ESPN article makes it pretty clear the current US indictments are just for CONCACAF and CONMEBOL events not WC. The Swiss are criminally investigating those brides though it's not clear if that's an arrangement or for some other reason.

I do AML for a living and know the US reach, so because they are going this route, they either don't have the goods on WC brides or want the Swiss to roll everyone up themselves for political reasons.

 
So do we have a list of who has actually been arrested yet? I read earlier they are asking the T&T authorities to arrest Warner but they have not located him yet.

 
Native said:
NewlyRetired said:
NY Times reporter just went on TV and said Blatter could be arrested as well.
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Honestly I can't imagine how escapes arrest. If corruption is rampant in the organization you run, you will eventually be found culpable and liable.
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In RICO? I think it's hard to make RICO charges based on bribery and money laundering stick on a guy who probably didn't take the bribes. Maybe the Swiss records will show a cover up and he can get folded in in obstruction but Blatter had little need to get his own hands dirty. It was quite sufficient for him to stay in power by ensuring that FIFA just wouldn't look too hard under his watch.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I find myself building internal defense mechanisms, burying any optimism to avoid the pain of disappointment when this blows over and nothing changes.
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I feel that too, but I have to say I never expected this to happen. Of course these arrests are meaningless unless it comes with prosecution.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I find myself building internal defense mechanisms, burying any optimism to avoid the pain of disappointment when this blows over and nothing changes.
Click to expand...
Smart move. Like I said earlier, he will win the election on Friday and it will be business as usual.
 
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NewlyRetired said:
CletiusMaximus said:
I find myself building internal defense mechanisms, burying any optimism to avoid the pain of disappointment when this blows over and nothing changes.
Click to expand...
I feel that too, but I have to say I never expected this to happen. Of course these arrests are meaningless unless it comes with prosecution.
Click to expand...
DOJ isn't in the habit of ending a four year investigation ending in indictments by abandoning the prosecution. The prosecutor has to bring something to trial to justify the budget.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Native said:
NewlyRetired said:
NY Times reporter just went on TV and said Blatter could be arrested as well.
Click to expand...
Honestly I can't imagine how escapes arrest. If corruption is rampant in the organization you run, you will eventually be found culpable and liable.
Click to expand...
In RICO? I think it's hard to make RICO charges based on bribery and money laundering stick on a guy who probably didn't take the bribes. Maybe the Swiss records will show a cover up and he can get folded in in obstruction but Blatter had little need to get his own hands dirty. It was quite sufficient for him to stay in power by ensuring that FIFA just wouldn't look too hard under his watch.
Click to expand...
The Swiss did put something on their books for exactly this sort of thing in 2013 though. If they FBI was tracing this money for since the 90's my guess is that at least someone got sloppy at some point and sent some money to a Blatter controlled account. Whether that matters is another matter.

Keep in mind too, there have been a boatload of US investigations of the Swiss banks recently over tax evasion, etc, so my guess is both the US and Swiss know where the money went if it stayed in Switzerland. If it got funneled to Caymans, Isle of Man, Liechtenstein, Seychelles, etc) that's a different matter, but I think the US indictments show that while these guys were good at enriching themselves they weren't good at covering their tracks.

 
Agree this won't change anything in the short run. Blatter will still win and FIFA will still FIFA.

What it does -- assuming the evidence shows what we think it does -- is empower the people out there who actually want to reform FIFA. Probably a decade(s?) long process, but it's in motion now IMO.

Wouldn't actually be surprised if there was a split in world soccer over it either.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
NewlyRetired said:
CletiusMaximus said:
I find myself building internal defense mechanisms, burying any optimism to avoid the pain of disappointment when this blows over and nothing changes.
Click to expand...
I feel that too, but I have to say I never expected this to happen. Of course these arrests are meaningless unless it comes with prosecution.
Click to expand...
DOJ isn't in the habit of ending a four year investigation ending in indictments by abandoning the prosecution. The prosecutor has to bring something to trial to justify the budget.
Click to expand...
and they don't get the Swiss authorities to arrest important people without being really, really, really, really, really, really, really serious. This is a huge case not just for the political ramificitions, but it's also the new US Attorney General's first big case. They don't bring it without every I dotted and T crossed.

If you want to hopeful for some change, it's the fact that at least with the CONCACAF/CONMEBOL stuff, the US has the goods.

 
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