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Ran a 10k - Official Thread


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15 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

First post race run...left quad feels like it took a baseball bat.

 

Ok. What next.

Prioritize strength and flexibility for X time then identify a fall race and get after it

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34 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

First post race run...left quad feels like it took a baseball bat.

 

Ok. What next.

Been reading book ‘Duel in the Sun’ and it mentions Dick Beardsley punched himself in the quads like 1000 each day. So you could consider that. Or just eat a bunch of food and recover for the next push. 

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1 minute ago, Zasada said:

OK got a step from Amazon and brought it to the office.  I can basically do eccentric heel drops all day long now.  But should I?  What's the appropriate frequency?

One-legged? How many can you do in a row now?

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15 minutes ago, Zasada said:

OK got a step from Amazon and brought it to the office.  I can basically do eccentric heel drops all day long now.  But should I?  What's the appropriate frequency?

When I am having/was having issues and was in the office, whenever I got up to pee and/or walked past/up/down a staircase I would stop and do a handful of drops/raises with each foot. Seems like there would be a point where you would be doing too many I would think but I'm not a doctor nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. 

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54 minutes ago, Zasada said:

OK got a step from Amazon and brought it to the office.  I can basically do eccentric heel drops all day long now.  But should I?  What's the appropriate frequency?

From some quick searching, I see a number of references to 3 sets of 15 (for each leg) twice a day.  So maybe do a few sets at the start of the day and again at day's end.  An alternative to keep things loose throughout the day might be 2 x 15 on each leg at the start, middle, and end of the day.

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1 minute ago, tri-man 47 said:

From some quick searching, I see a number of references to 3 sets of 15 (for each leg) twice a day.  So maybe do a few sets at the start of the day and again at day's end.  An alternative to keep things loose throughout the day might be 2 x 15 on each leg at the start, middle, and end of the day.

I remember from looking this up before that it was recommended to do 20-30 reps 2-3x/day. So, the above is pretty inline with that. 

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12 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

@Zasada Be careful about pain. If you really have a lower leg stress fracture these heel drops could be unwise, especially if you are aggressive with them. You mentioned pain just walking the other day. 

OK, thanks.  The drops don't seem to hurt in any way, hopefully that's a good sign?

I'm taking the week off all exercise leg-related, except these drops (provided they don't start to hurt).  

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11 minutes ago, Dr_Zaius said:

Discuss : Pollen was created to be a force for evil and torment of humans.

Personally, I like the smell of all the pretty flowers in the spring while I run.  I, for one, welcome our new gamete overlords.

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1 minute ago, bushdocda said:

Male plants spreading DNA over the globe looking for a love connection. 

That's all well and good for them, but why do I have to be in the money shot?

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35 minutes ago, Dr_Zaius said:

Discuss : Pollen was created to be a force for evil and torment of humans.

I'm lucky I have 0 issues with pollen or allergies. My wife, on the other hand, suffers enough for both of us. She finally broke down 5 years ago and started allergy shots. When I look at her now and think that is 10x better than what it used to be, I feel horrible for her.

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2 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

I'm lucky I have 0 issues with pollen or allergies. My wife, on the other hand, suffers enough for both of us. She finally broke down 5 years ago and started allergy shots. When I look at her now and think that is 10x better than what it used to be, I feel horrible for her.

I had 8 years of shots as a kid.  Presumably it helped, but days like today where you can see the pollen everywhere are still pretty miserable.  Unfortunately my oldest daughter's spring allergies are even worse.

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38 minutes ago, Dr_Zaius said:

Discuss : Pollen was created to be a force for evil and torment of humans.

Pollen doesn't bother me, but it'd be cool if those giant bumble bees hover about 12-15' over the sidewalk and not between knee and chest high.

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2 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

:shrug: I do them like this.

Those are different than eccentric heel drops. You don't want to push up with the injured side so you use both legs to elevate, then drop down on the injured side. The idea is to lengthen and realign the fibers. That's why the more you do it and consistent you do it, the better.

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9 minutes ago, Zasada said:

Yes, that's what I was doing.  But the video linked earlier in the thread had the dude using both feet for the raise.  One foot for the drop.

But I like your video better.  Not just because it's what I did.

See my post above.

One is a muscle strengthening exercise. One is an Achilles injury conditioning exercise. 

They are similar but different in their execution and their desired outcomes.

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2 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Those are different than eccentric heel drops. You don't want to push up with the injured side so you use both legs to elevate, then drop down on the injured side. The idea is to lengthen and realign the fibers. That's why the more you do it and consistent you do it, the better.

Yes, I was thinking about that. Good point. Certainly the way up is harder so if one is injured or the “up” part significantly impacts the number of reps, it makes sense to focus on the drops.

But maybe for routine exercising, you can get the advantages of the ups and downs by one leg up? The downward movement to both ways could be done the same way.  That’s an honest question. 

Makes sense for Zasada to focus on drops and do it the two leg up way though. (Although we don’t know what the injury is.)

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4 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

Yes, I was thinking about that. Good point. Certainly the way up is harder so if one is injured or the “up” part significantly impacts the number of reps, it makes sense to focus on the drops.

But maybe for routine exercising, you can get the advantages of the ups and downs by one leg up? The downward movement to both ways could be done the same way.  That’s an honest question. 

Makes sense for Zasada to focus on drops and do it the two leg up way though. (Although we don’t know what the injury is.)

In our sport I think we should be doing as many exercises as possible on a single leg. And I don't think I write that with hyperbole. Assuming health, of course.

EDIT - if you really wanna nerd out

Edited by MAC_32
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28 minutes ago, gianmarco said:
38 minutes ago, Zasada said:

Yes, that's what I was doing.  But the video linked earlier in the thread had the dude using both feet for the raise.  One foot for the drop.

But I like your video better.  Not just because it's what I did.

See my post above.

One is a muscle strengthening exercise. One is an Achilles injury conditioning exercise. 

They are similar but different in their execution and their desired outcomes.

My PT last spring had me doing those for my sore achilles, weak/damaged ankles. Also had me standing on one foot and reaching down and forward with my hand to slowly stack and unstack cups, alternating feet after each completetion. Seemed like another good way of working all those interstitial things around the ankles to help strengthen the area.

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Trying to look at upsides of taking a bunch of days off for my lower leg problem:

  • Glutes are feeling great
  • Normally I do my dumbbell presses and curls 2x weekly, but I've done them now ~7 of the last ~8 days and the wife noticed my beefcake!
    • More like shepherd's pie, but it's better than before
  • Bought some more comfortable/supportive work shoes (versus my dress shoes) which feel WAY better
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10 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

Yes, I was thinking about that. Good point. Certainly the way up is harder so if one is injured or the “up” part significantly impacts the number of reps, it makes sense to focus on the drops.

But maybe for routine exercising, you can get the advantages of the ups and downs by one leg up? The downward movement to both ways could be done the same way.  That’s an honest question. 

Makes sense for Zasada to focus on drops and do it the two leg up way though. (Although we don’t know what the injury is.)

Yes, eventually doing both is ideal. Going up is concentric, but that can actually make an Achilles injury worse. But, if it's stable or healed, then definitely add it in.

Also, going up should only be like 2 seconds but going down is supposed to be slower, usually about 4 seconds to drop down (eccentric).

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1 minute ago, Zasada said:

Trying to look at upsides of taking a bunch of days off for my lower leg problem:

  • Glutes are feeling great
  • Normally I do my dumbbell presses and curls 2x weekly, but I've done them now ~7 of the last ~8 days and the wife noticed my beefcake!
    • More like shepherd's pie, but it's better than before
  • Bought some more comfortable/supportive work shoes (versus my dress shoes) which feel WAY better

And, I know I've beat the drum in here, but those Oofos have completely eliminated any Achilles discomfort I've had. If you don't have a pair yet, well...

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1 minute ago, Zasada said:

Trying to look at upsides of taking a bunch of days off for my lower leg problem:

  • Glutes are feeling great
  • Normally I do my dumbbell presses and curls 2x weekly, but I've done them now ~7 of the last ~8 days and the wife noticed my beefcake!
    • More like shepherd's pie, but it's better than before
  • Bought some more comfortable/supportive work shoes (versus my dress shoes) which feel WAY better

This is going to irritate you, but you shouldn't be doing curls (or any strength training exercise) back-to-back days. When strength training muscle groups need 48-72 hours to recover before being worked again. While you're not running hit one group of muscle groups one day, another group the next day, then repeat.

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6 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

This is going to irritate you, but you shouldn't be doing curls (or any strength training exercise) back-to-back days. When strength training muscle groups need 48-72 hours to recover before being worked again. While you're not running hit one group of muscle groups one day, another group the next day, then repeat.

Wouldn’t recovery time depend on how hard you’re working them? (Similar to running in a way. You can run every day but shouldn’t be doing SOS runs every day.)

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3 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

Wouldn’t recovery time depend on how hard you’re working them? (Similar to running in a way. You can run every day but shouldn’t be doing SOS runs every day.)

Of course, but I'm not going to make that assumption from afar, especially if there have been noticeable gains. In the most simplistic terms, when strength training you're tearing muscle fibers. It takes time for these fibers to repair, but when it does the muscle becomes stronger (and bigger). Not waiting until those fibers repair has a range of different potential outcomes that vary between stalled progress and injury, but none of the outcomes are optimal. From my experience you're not likely to encounter a problem doing it in an isolated manner (especially at first), but sustain over a period of time and some problem will eventually develop.

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2 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

This is going to irritate you, but you shouldn't be doing curls (or any strength training exercise) back-to-back days. When strength training muscle groups need 48-72 hours to recover before being worked again. While you're not running hit one group of muscle groups one day, another group the next day, then repeat.

So pushups for 30 straight days isn’t a great idea?  🤔

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1 hour ago, SteelCurtain said:

So pushups for 30 straight days isn’t a great idea?  🤔

:lol:

I intentionally stayed quiet about that and opted for this battle instead, but there's good reason most plateau doing that sorta challenge. Now that you're coming out the other side go at it every other day then try to beat the day prior 5x in a row then scale it back for a session or two then go again.

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3 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

Of course, but I'm not going to make that assumption from afar, especially if there have been noticeable gains. In the most simplistic terms, when strength training you're tearing muscle fibers. It takes time for these fibers to repair, but when it does the muscle becomes stronger (and bigger). Not waiting until those fibers repair has a range of different potential outcomes that vary between stalled progress and injury, but none of the outcomes are optimal. From my experience you're not likely to encounter a problem doing it in an isolated manner (especially at first), but sustain over a period of time and some problem will eventually develop.

 Do some exercises have shorter recovery times than others? For example, would you recovery quicker from something like planks than bicep curls? (Sorry for asking all these questions. I’ll stop at this one!)

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1 hour ago, Juxtatarot said:

 Do some exercises have shorter recovery times than others? For example, would you recovery quicker from something like planks than bicep curls? (Sorry for asking all these questions. I’ll stop at this one!)

Don't be sorry, this is not simple. I've been engaged in some level with this for the better part of 2 decades and still learn new information constantly. I've read many different anecdotes over the years about recovery time, but I'm not aware of evidence suggesting particular exercises require less recovery time than others. I think it's primarily related to the amount of force the exercise applies on a particular muscle group.

i.e. I didn't speak up about push ups because that exercise engages so many different muscle groups the likelihood it develops into an injury is slim to nil. There is not an excessive amount of force applied on any one muscle group doing this movement. Sure, it's more effective not to do them every day and to incorporate different types of push ups, but ultimately push ups every day is substantially better than the habit dying. 

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10 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Don't be sorry, this is not simple. I've been engaged in some level with this for the better part of 2 decades and still learn new information constantly. I've read many different anecdotes over the years about recovery time, but I'm not aware of evidence suggesting particular exercises require less recovery time than others. I think it's primarily related to the amount of force the exercise applies on a particular muscle group.

i.e. I didn't speak up about push ups because that exercise engages so many different muscle groups the likelihood it develops into an injury is slim to nil. There is not an excessive amount of force applied on any one muscle group doing this movement. Sure, it's more effective not to do them every day and to incorporate different types of push ups, but ultimately push ups every day is substantially better than the habit dying. 

I’ve been adjusting my elbow angles so some push-ups are more focused on my triceps while others engage more of the chest.  

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I'm leaning towards running the half marathon on Sunday that I previously signed up but thought I'd skip.  After having setbacks with my heel several times last week, it's been OK since Saturday.  I felt an itch in it the last few days when running but no pain.  It  even feels a little better when I pick up the pace.  I want to give it one last test with a bit of sub 6:00 running while wearing the shoes I race in.  I'll do that tomorrow and if all goes well I try to take it easy until Sunday.  It might not be totally smart to do this but in my mind the potential upside of a good race outweighs the downside of reaggravation.  

I've been wearing some recovery sandals I found in my closet and they may have helped.  I can't remember why I bought these.  Maybe someone in this thread mentioned them? :shrug:

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11 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

 Do some exercises have shorter recovery times than others? For example, would you recovery quicker from something like planks than bicep curls? (Sorry for asking all these questions. I’ll stop at this one!)

I had always heard that you can work abs every day but everything else you want a rest day. 

All the new stuff coming out is that your body adapts to exercise. 

I personally suspect that this all works together - you use your core for everything so your body is used to more exertion there than other muscle groups.  And your core is generally strong enough to do high reps of most exercises- there's no one rep max for sit ups or planks, you just do them longer.

I imagine it's like doing 100 reps of lifting a gallon of milk vs 12 reps of lifting a heavy dumbbell - you can do 100 more reps of lifting that milk jug again tomorrow.  Since most core exercises are about toning and building endurance, they're more like the milk jug than the dumbbell. 

Similarly, if you do chairs for a longer and longer time each day, your recovery time will probably be lower than if you are loading up the squat rack with higher weights. 

Weak muscle groups like your puny arms and pecs are going to fatigue earlier and require more recovery time than your legs. It's not just that you have weak biceps, it's all those little stabilizer muscles that get fatigued early on and make your form suffer on later reps.  A lot of your early effort lifting weight is training the weakest helper muscles until all of your muscles are able to work together at the same weight with good form. So early on, you're going to be stressing those smaller muscles out a lot more than the larger muscle groups you intended to work out. And if you keep going those little muscles can't help anymore so you cheat and find you're arching your back instead of using your weak triceps and that's how you hurt your back while working out your chest. 

For the people starting out with pushups, maybe your wrists got sore the first few days after just a few pushups and then you got past that but started to really feel it in your elbows and triceps before you finally get to a point where your chest feels it more than your other groups. That's totally normal.  You probably have some specific areas that get sore after an exercise, not just your chest but specifically right... there... in your pec. And then after a while that spot might change.  

Once you've gotten past that point, your recovery time overall will improve because you're not putting as much strain on any of those weaker muscles, and the whole exercise becomes more like lifting a milk jug than lifting a dumbbell.

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1 minute ago, Juxtatarot said:

in my mind the potential upside of a good race outweighs the downside of reaggravation.  

This is how I know I'll never be one of you. I was mildly excited when I hit 9 miles last Wednesday but I tweaked a muscle and haven't run since. Getting back to it today and need to decide if I should do like 5 on the treadmill or 7 outside. Kind of want to do the 7 but not sure if I'd be pushing too hard for my first run after a short layoff. 

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