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Ran a 10k - Official Thread


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11 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Also, 7 months ago you ran a 1 mile PR of 7:00 on an uphill route when you came out stupid hot and paced it about as bad as possible.  Since that time, you are now running paces between :30-45 faster per mile than you were at that time with similar HRs. 

You just did 5 miles at an 8:14 pace with an AHR of 132. Running 3.1 miles at a pace a minute faster than that would be a soft PR.

Ok not as insane as I thought. On my run this morning I pushed the last few miles, at mile 5 I was at 150 HR and figured I’d need to really push to get to 160 to see how that felt and went 6:58 on mile 6, first sub 7 mile I’ve done in 27 years.

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7 minutes ago, lumpy19 said:

Ok not as insane as I thought. On my run this morning I pushed the last few miles, at mile 5 I was at 150 HR and figured I’d need to really push to get to 160 to see how that felt and went 6:58 on mile 6, first sub 7 mile I’ve done in 27 years.

Yeah, you are working yourself into a real nice place right now.

Now get out there and run a half!

For us. 

 

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20 minutes ago, lumpy19 said:

Ok not as insane as I thought. On my run this morning I pushed the last few miles, at mile 5 I was at 150 HR and figured I’d need to really push to get to 160 to see how that felt and went 6:58 on mile 6, first sub 7 mile I’ve done in 27 years.

On mile 6!

Congrats on all the work showing these fantastic dividends.

I have to figure out my watch better so I can use the HR data during runs I stead of just reviewing afterwards...looks like it really made a difference here for you.

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On 5/17/2021 at 6:40 AM, gruecd said:

PSA - As the week progresses, prepare yourselves for lots of complaining about the heat.

I feel like complaining about quite a bit right now, but I'll just limit it to the 100% humidity on my run this morning.  Wasn't that hot, but I was still soaked and dripping when I got home.

I don't know how you daytime running guys do that in the sun.  Even in the dark, I was miserable.

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32 minutes ago, lumpy19 said:

Ok not as insane as I thought. On my run this morning I pushed the last few miles, at mile 5 I was at 150 HR and figured I’d need to really push to get to 160 to see how that felt and went 6:58 on mile 6, first sub 7 mile I’ve done in 27 years.

That's so awesome!!!

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1 hour ago, lumpy19 said:

Ok not as insane as I thought. On my run this morning I pushed the last few miles, at mile 5 I was at 150 HR and figured I’d need to really push to get to 160 to see how that felt and went 6:58 on mile 6, first sub 7 mile I’ve done in 27 years.

Not sure what your max HR is, but mine is about 190. If I’m running a 5K, my HR is in the 180s for the last 2 miles and near max for the last mile/half. Get out there and suffer some!

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1 hour ago, Zasada said:

I feel like complaining about quite a bit right now, but I'll just limit it to the 100% humidity on my run this morning.  Wasn't that hot, but I was still soaked and dripping when I got home.

I don't know how you daytime running guys do that in the sun.  Even in the dark, I was miserable.

Mid 70's without a cloud in the sky - sounds like a perfect day for some intervals.

Embrace The Suck.

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Posted (edited)

What’s your favorite album that was released in the last 10 years? I’m trying to expand my musical comfort zone so don’t be concerned whether you think I’d like it or not.

Edited by Juxtatarot
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16 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

What’s your favorite album that was released in the last 10 years? I’m trying to expand my musical comfort zone so don’t be concerned whether you think I’d like it or not.

I've sat here a good 5 minutes trying to think of an actual album name. I could give you a list of individual songs, but honestly can say I haven't bought a full album in at least 10 years or more.

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12 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

With hind sight, it is even more incredible that they were able to put out such a complete piece of work beginning to end when listening to any part of their catalog in the years that followed. 

From

'Lightning crashes, an old mother dies
Her intentions fall to the floor
The angel closes her eyes
The confusion that was hers
Belongs now, to the baby down the hall'

To

'Love will lead us, she will lead us
Can you hear the dolphin's cry?'

:mellow:

Yeah, they were a bit hit and miss lyrically even on this album.  "Sh@!town" immediately sprung to mind.  "It's hardline symmetry of people and pets"??

3 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

I listened to Throwing Copper on my run this morning.  Really, really sounds dated but, of course, it is dated.  Speaking of bad lyrics, it doesn't get worse than the song "Waitress".  

From their later stuff, I heard "Lakini's Juice" the other day, and it was better than I remembered.

Apparently it is now outside of your 10 year time window, but Sign No More is a great album.

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Just now, ChiefD said:

I've sat here a good 5 minutes trying to think of an actual album name. I could give you a list of individual songs, but honestly can say I haven't bought a full album in at least 10 years or more.

For me, I still like the album format. A good one has that nice flow and synergy of songs. I don’t always listen to albums but love listening to the good ones.

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38 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

What’s your favorite album that was released in the last 10 years? I’m trying to expand my musical comfort zone so don’t be concerned whether you think I’d like it or not.

Parquet Courts- Wide Awake!

Big fan of the band previously,. But then my son got to sing on a track for it (and perform it live once in Central Park)...so I will always consider it a favorite. And #### Tom Brady. 

IDLES- Joy as an act of Resistance.

Loud, anthemic wide awoke post punk. Love these guys. Start with Danny Nedelko.

 

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5 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

Parquet Courts- Wide Awake!

Big fan of the band previously,. But then my son got to sing on a track for it (and perform it live once in Central Park)...so I will always consider it a favorite. And #### Tom Brady

IDLES- Joy as an act of Resistance.

Loud, anthemic wide awoke post punk. Love these guys. Start with Danny Nedelko.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

What’s your favorite album that was released in the last 10 years? I’m trying to expand my musical comfort zone so don’t be concerned whether you think I’d like it or not.

For running purposes, I'm a fan of these power pop albums: 

The Courtneys - II

The Beths - Future Me Hates Me

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1 hour ago, Juxtatarot said:

What’s your favorite album that was released in the last 10 years? I’m trying to expand my musical comfort zone so don’t be concerned whether you think I’d like it or not.

Falls just outside of 10 years, but Eminem's "Recovery" album (2010) is IMHO the best album by the best rapper of all time.

Then to show my musical diversity, I'm also a big fan of "This One's For You" by Luke Combs.

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20 minutes ago, gruecd said:

Falls just outside of 10 years, but Eminem's "Recovery" album (2010) is IMHO the best album by the best rapper of all time.

Then to show my musical diversity, I'm also a big fan of "This One's For You" by Luke Combs.

Also just outside of 10 years, I’ve listened to My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy recently and was surprised on how much I liked it. Hip Hop and Rap isn’t something I often listen to but there is certainly good stuff in those genres. I liked Eminem back in the day so I’ve give that a listen. Thanks.

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Halestorm is great for running when I'm looking for something mindless. Lyrical content isn't Ed Kowalczyk bad, but Lzzy is no poet. If you're unfamiliar with them then give the first 4 songs from The Strange Case Of a spin. If it isn't for you then no need to go beyond that, but I have a tempo playlist built from this band and most of this album makes up the middle.

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2 hours ago, Zasada said:

You guys don't share my musical tastes, and it's a little outside of 10 years, but David Guetta's One Love is probably peak Guetta.

Awesome, added it to my library for my next run

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Just created a playlist on Spotify with everyone's suggestions today. Some I've heard of and some not. Will report back after my run tonight.

I have not listened to any of the songs since I've added them just now.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, El Floppo said:

Parquet Courts- Wide Awake! - What. The. Hell. No. I'm a runner, not a bro.

Big fan of the band previously,. But then my son got to sing on a track for it (and perform it live once in Central Park)...so I will always consider it a favorite. And #### Tom Brady. 

IDLES- Danny Nedelko.

Love. Great tune. And I will definitely explore more from these guys. Love the sound. Reminds me of a time of my life a long, long time ago.

 

 

6 hours ago, Brony said:

For running purposes, I'm a fan of these power pop albums: 

The Courtneys - II - At first listen, this one is a maybe. Will stay on the playlist for now

The Beths - Future Me Hates Me - Love. Will explore more from this band.

 

5 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

Halestorm is great for running when I'm looking for something mindless. Lyrical content isn't Ed Kowalczyk bad, but Lzzy is no poet. If you're unfamiliar with them then give the first 4 songs from The Strange Case Of a spin. If it isn't for you then no need to go beyond that, but I have a tempo playlist built from this band and most of this album makes up the middle.

Loved me some Halestorm already, so I knew who they were. I will add a few of their tunes to the playlist. Love that voice.

 

5 hours ago, JShare87 said:

Meatloaf - Hell Yes. Always.

 

5 hours ago, Zasada said:

You guys don't share my musical tastes, and it's a little outside of 10 years, but David Guetta's One Love is probably peak Guetta. - Not really my vibe. A strong no.

 

Edited by ChiefD
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@ChiefD beyond the 4 you listened to - Uncomfortable, Black Vultures, Do Not Disturb (acoustic version is slick too), Vicious, It's Not You, Rock Show, Daughters of Darkness, Here's To Us, and Still of the Night (cover). She does some outstanding covers, but this one...she really blew the doors off the original. 

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23 hours ago, El Floppo said:

Started off on my hill repeat workout this am. Got up the bridge to head over and down to my repeats location and knew my legs and body were in bad shape.

When I got to the bottom of the bridge to start the workout, I turned off the inner 10k thread dbap voice and kept going out onto the Brooklyn water front for a recovery run instead.

Even though I hate missing my hill workout, I'm glad I did. 

Scheduled recovery day today, and I'm still fried.

I think my Sunday run took a lot more out of me than I expected.

Or it's the ball aids.

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Inspired by @lumpy19doing a PR mile towards the end of a run, and because I was trying to burn off some calories quickly before bed, i did a shorter run last night with a fast (for me) mile in the middle.  Usually if I try to do a fast mile I warm up a little and then try to lower my heart rate before starting, but starting with a jog and then going faster felt pretty good.  When I have done intervals I usually try to go faster and/or for less than a mile.  And when I try to run this pace I can sometimes go further but usually bonk after some distance.  So this was nice.  I might make this my new model for treadmill running, start with a slow mile and then do longer and longer distances at my goal pace. 

Googled a little this morning and found this

https://www.kimeperformance.com/stop-jogging-and-start-running/

I average about 6mph regardless outside so I'm probably on the faster side of jogging than actually running.  And seeing some of the points they make about decelerating when your foot lands in front of you and how that can lead not only to wasted energy but injuries makes a lot of sense. So now I'm hoping to get out there today for a longer run and try to put some of this stuff to work.  Even if it means I'm actually slower at first as I'm getting used to it, or tire myself out and have to walk for a while, it's probably better long term if I put this stuff in practice outside and not on a treadmill, and on some of the longer flat areas later in my run than the hilly bits closer to my house. 

I know I've heard good runners talk about heel strike and I'm not totally sure what that means.  I have tried the bouncing on your toes running before and my feet hurt for days afterwards from using totally different muscles and probably incorrectly. 

Any thoughts?  I just don't want to do anything stupid and hurt myself. 

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1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

Inspired by @lumpy19doing a PR mile towards the end of a run, and because I was trying to burn off some calories quickly before bed, i did a shorter run last night with a fast (for me) mile in the middle.  Usually if I try to do a fast mile I warm up a little and then try to lower my heart rate before starting, but starting with a jog and then going faster felt pretty good.  When I have done intervals I usually try to go faster and/or for less than a mile.  And when I try to run this pace I can sometimes go further but usually bonk after some distance.  So this was nice.  I might make this my new model for treadmill running, start with a slow mile and then do longer and longer distances at my goal pace. 

Googled a little this morning and found this

https://www.kimeperformance.com/stop-jogging-and-start-running/

I average about 6mph regardless outside so I'm probably on the faster side of jogging than actually running.  And seeing some of the points they make about decelerating when your foot lands in front of you and how that can lead not only to wasted energy but injuries makes a lot of sense. So now I'm hoping to get out there today for a longer run and try to put some of this stuff to work.  Even if it means I'm actually slower at first as I'm getting used to it, or tire myself out and have to walk for a while, it's probably better long term if I put this stuff in practice outside and not on a treadmill, and on some of the longer flat areas later in my run than the hilly bits closer to my house. 

I know I've heard good runners talk about heel strike and I'm not totally sure what that means.  I have tried the bouncing on your toes running before and my feet hurt for days afterwards from using totally different muscles and probably incorrectly. 

Any thoughts?  I just don't want to do anything stupid and hurt myself. 

I don’t think this article is good guidance for most runners. It may make sense for general fitness, but I don’t like it for training for distance running.

“The challenge with this type of pace is that it taxes the cardiovascular system and is very difficult to maintain. So, yes it is hard to run fast for hours. So I you can’t do it at first, then build up to it. Run fast for as long as you can. As your pace begins to drop to closer to a 4hr pace, then walk for 1-3 minutes to recover. Then run again at the under 3.5 hr pace until you need to rest again. Repeat this cycle over time and you will find you can improve your endurance maintaining a higher pace, and need less recovery intervals.”

3.5 hr pace is 8:00 miles, which is really aggressive for most. I didn’t start running sub 8:00 miles for my long runs until I was training for my 4th marathon. I think most beginning runners limiting factor is endurance not poor running form. I’d prefer to see someone start out with the MAF/Hadd concepts than the guidance in your article. I like the idea of running 100m strides and hill sprints to help with running form.

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19 minutes ago, pbm107 said:

I don’t think this article is good guidance for most runners. It may make sense for general fitness, but I don’t like it for training for distance running.

“The challenge with this type of pace is that it taxes the cardiovascular system and is very difficult to maintain. So, yes it is hard to run fast for hours. So I you can’t do it at first, then build up to it. Run fast for as long as you can. As your pace begins to drop to closer to a 4hr pace, then walk for 1-3 minutes to recover. Then run again at the under 3.5 hr pace until you need to rest again. Repeat this cycle over time and you will find you can improve your endurance maintaining a higher pace, and need less recovery intervals.”

3.5 hr pace is 8:00 miles, which is really aggressive for most. I didn’t start running sub 8:00 miles for my long runs until I was training for my 4th marathon. I think most beginning runners limiting factor is endurance not poor running form. I’d prefer to see someone start out with the MAF/Hadd concepts than the guidance in your article. I like the idea of running 100m strides and hill sprints to help with running form.

Strong emphasis on hills - no matter one's condition they never get easier and they're always effective.

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My MAF runs are in the ballpark of 6mph and my fast mile right now is over 8 minutes so I'm not even considering that part. I'm more interested in the form discussion. My "swing thought" for today's run is going to be to make sure my front foot lands under my body not out in front, at least for a while. I don't even know if I do that right now but it wouldn't surprise me if I screw this up.  

Hill intervals probably a good idea.  How long a hill do you usually aim for? I've got a steep uphill followed by a long gradual uphill near me, maybe 1/3 of a mile steep and one mile total.  I start almkst every outdoor run with most of that uphill mile because my road sucks, fwiw

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10 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

My MAF runs are in the ballpark of 6mph and my fast mile right now is over 8 minutes so I'm not even considering that part. I'm more interested in the form discussion. My "swing thought" for today's run is going to be to make sure my front foot lands under my body not out in front, at least for a while. I don't even know if I do that right now but it wouldn't surprise me if I screw this up.  

Hill intervals probably a good idea.  How long a hill do you usually aim for? I've got a steep uphill followed by a long gradual uphill near me, maybe 1/3 of a mile steep and one mile total.  I start almkst every outdoor run with most of that uphill mile because my road sucks, fwiw

Aside from the hill we use for XC practice it's usually months in between me doing the same hill twice, but I also have dozens of options within 10 minutes of me. None are > 300' while others are as low as 50'...they are all quite different - including the terrain. To get anything > a mile I gotta drive 20-30 minutes (they're > 300'), but I also have no desire to seek that out on my own.

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18 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

My MAF runs are in the ballpark of 6mph and my fast mile right now is over 8 minutes so I'm not even considering that part. I'm more interested in the form discussion. My "swing thought" for today's run is going to be to make sure my front foot lands under my body not out in front, at least for a while. I don't even know if I do that right now but it wouldn't surprise me if I screw this up.  

Hill intervals probably a good idea.  How long a hill do you usually aim for? I've got a steep uphill followed by a long gradual uphill near me, maybe 1/3 of a mile steep and one mile total.  I start almkst every outdoor run with most of that uphill mile because my road sucks, fwiw

I’d say go with time on the hill strides to start. 20-30 seconds up with a minute or 2 recovery. Repeat 4x and then add more. 

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19 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

My MAF runs are in the ballpark of 6mph and my fast mile right now is over 8 minutes so I'm not even considering that part. I'm more interested in the form discussion. My "swing thought" for today's run is going to be to make sure my front foot lands under my body not out in front, at least for a while. I don't even know if I do that right now but it wouldn't surprise me if I screw this up.  

Hill intervals probably a good idea.  How long a hill do you usually aim for? I've got a steep uphill followed by a long gradual uphill near me, maybe 1/3 of a mile steep and one mile total.  I start almkst every outdoor run with most of that uphill mile because my road sucks, fwiw

I like running 6x12 sec sprints, the hill doesn’t need to be too long or steep. I like this advice regarding form.

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20 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

My MAF runs are in the ballpark of 6mph and my fast mile right now is over 8 minutes so I'm not even considering that part. I'm more interested in the form discussion. My "swing thought" for today's run is going to be to make sure my front foot lands under my body not out in front, at least for a while. I don't even know if I do that right now but it wouldn't surprise me if I screw this up.  

Hill intervals probably a good idea.  How long a hill do you usually aim for? I've got a steep uphill followed by a long gradual uphill near me, maybe 1/3 of a mile steep and one mile total.  I start almkst every outdoor run with most of that uphill mile because my road sucks, fwiw

There isn't a specific hill length or grade you need to do. Be careful with stuff that is too steep (>10% grade) because it can really affect form.

Some intervals you want to run almost as fast as you can for 10-15 seconds. Some are a decent pace for a minute or so. Others are slower but longer. There's lots of ways to use hills. As @tri-man 47likes to say, it's a speed workout in disguise. But it helps with form too in getting knees up and landing in front of foot.

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12 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

what does this part mean

So, @tri-man 47is a huge proponent of a mid foot or front foot strike. Meaning, those parts of your foot hit the ground first when running. Many runners heel strike. I've read a good bit on this and the thinking now is that heel striking is ok (he'll still disagree) as long as you are landing with your foot under your knee/body and not overstriding. That causes a braking action and is bad for your legs/body and costs you efficiency as well. 

If you learn to land on your front foot, it's impossible to overstride. 

When you run uphill on a moderate grade, it's also close to impossible to heel strike. So you learn good form if you practice it enough and then apply it to the rest of your running.

I'll see if I can find some of the articles and videos later about this. They've been linked in here before.

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It'll feel strange at first, but really exaggerate how much you use your arms when running uphill too. This reduces the amount of effort required of your legs. 

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26 minutes ago, pbm107 said:

I like running 6x12 sec sprints, the hill doesn’t need to be too long or steep. I like this advice regarding form.

 

5 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

as long as you are landing with your foot under your knee/body and not overstriding. That causes a braking action and is bad for your legs/body and costs you efficiency as well. 

Ok both of these say the thing that I took from the article I linked earlier 

 

3 hours ago, bostonfred said:

the points they make about decelerating when your foot lands in front of you and how that can lead not only to wasted energy but injuries makes a lot of sense

So it sounds like this will indeed be my "swing thought" for today's run. 

And the idea of running hills to practice my form is interesting but I don't think I have enough sense of my form yet to know what I do.  I think I do mid foot uphill but I'm not totally sure what constitutes mid foot vs front foot, and I think I heel strike on flats and downhills but sometimes put my foot out ahead of me and that's bad.  I suspect I have been doing that on downhills in particular and probably beating the hell out of my joints so I'm going to focus on that in particular today and then maybe do some hills tomorrow.  Or something like that. 

Thanks guys and thanks also to Mac and Bush for responding so quickly after my post you guys are great

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3 hours ago, bostonfred said:

 

I know I've heard good runners talk about heel strike and I'm not totally sure what that means.  I have tried the bouncing on your toes running before and my feet hurt for days afterwards from using totally different muscles and probably incorrectly. 

Any thoughts?  I just don't want to do anything stupid and hurt myself. 

I can tell you from my own experience that your legs adjust and get stronger. I used to be a heel striker and changed to a mid to balls of my feet striker.

It took a few months to make the switch - and I experience the same things as you. It hurt my legs and just felt all wrong. But over time I've adjusted and now it's how I run. I've also been able to avoid leg injuries over the last 7 years (knock on wood).

My stride is pretty short, so I'm not bouncing a ton of weight on my joints this way. Has worked out well.

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Just keep a few things in mind.

You can read tons on all of this stuff (trust me, I have).  There are things you can and should change.  And then there's things you're better off just leaving it alone.  Some of this form stuff is dictated by your pace.  Some of it is near impossible to do when running slowly.  So, your fitness may not allow some of the ideal things you might come across. 

You'll see some say to try running barefoot.  Run hills.  Increase your cadence.  All of these things can potentially help, but in the end, we have a particular form that is natural for us and that's ok.  So it's best to improve only one thing at a time and do it slowly.  You can't change things overnight. 

This is also one of the benefits of doing speedwork.  It opens up your stride and you run "differently" in a way that can help you in slower, distance running.  Because I'm not as fast as these others here and most of my runs are on the slower side, I find when I do speed work it kind of "unlocks" something that then helps my normal runs. 

I think the biggest thing I've learned from all these things is that overstriding is the one bad thing you want to avoid.  It sounds like that's what you do and are working at it.  There's many ways to fix that:  change foot position strike, higher knee lift, increase your cadence, hill work.  Whatever you do, do it slowly and carefully and just work on landing with your foot underneath your flexed knee. 

Good luck.

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If every run was like that I might get into this.  Set PRs for the full route, and 10k (66 minutes and 59:57, let's not get too excited) and pretty much every segment since I started tracking with strava, which is nice, but the cooler part is that I ran the same 7 miles on Saturday and Monday and didn't take a rest day in between.  Which means, at least for today, that I've met one of my goals to be able to run this 3x per week at the same pace I was doing when I was doing it 2x per week.  And that means I'm somewhat successfully caterpillaring up to 7 being my normal run and 4 or 5 being my short run. It's only one good run (and I know it's not that good) but it opens up the possibility that I might take another step forward in speed and/or distance this summer. 

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26 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

If every run was like that I might get into this.  Set PRs for the full route, and 10k (66 minutes and 59:57, let's not get too excited) and pretty much every segment since I started tracking with strava, which is nice, but the cooler part is that I ran the same 7 miles on Saturday and Monday and didn't take a rest day in between.  Which means, at least for today, that I've met one of my goals to be able to run this 3x per week at the same pace I was doing when I was doing it 2x per week.  And that means I'm somewhat successfully caterpillaring up to 7 being my normal run and 4 or 5 being my short run. It's only one good run (and I know it's not that good) but it opens up the possibility that I might take another step forward in speed and/or distance this summer. 

👍

Still waiting for you to join our Strava group :)

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