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WR Michael Thomas, NO


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6 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

And discounted?  I have never seen Tyreek on any kind of discount.  Trust me, I've followed.

You only just started playing fantasy football in the past 18 months?  Hill fell to me in ROUND 5 of a 16-team startup draft during the summer of his potential legal problems. 

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8 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

You only just started playing fantasy football in the past 18 months?  Hill fell to me in ROUND 5 of a 16-team startup draft during the summer of his potential legal problems. 

25 years.  The comment was about a discount for injury.  I didn't do any startups but no one was trading him for a discount either, but that's probably because few understand sunk costs vs. market price.

Edited by Hankmoody
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9 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Apologies if I mistook your tone but when people post curt responses like "over an ankle" they are generally being dismissive of the severity. 

Not at all. HAS requires surgeries in some cases. I never said he was eating fritos or sitting on a couch. Honestly, I think I'm done here when you think the rest of my post about a pro athlete losing 2 'in his prime prime' seasons supports your tone, and you putting opinions in my mouth. It's annoying.  He is in fact losing a big part of his prime, and at least one season where he could have contended. It's confusing, but I'm not looking to get into some grandstanding 'how dare this confuse you' debate about it. 

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12 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

25 years.  The comment was about a discount for injury.  I didn't do any startups but no one was trading him for a discount either, but that's probably because few understand sunk costs vs. market price.

Maybe not in your leagues.

Just one example in May.

X gave up Hill, Tyreek KCC WR
Y gave up Ross, John CIN WR; Year 2019 Draft Pick 4.09; Year 2019 Draft Pick 4.20; Year 2019 Draft Pick 5.20; Year 2019 Draft Pick 5.28; Year 2019 Draft Pick 6.31; Year 2019 Draft Pick 7.05; Year 2019 Draft Pick 7.14
Comments: This is best I can do

:shrug:

 

We're getting off subject, but the point I was trying to make with Tyreek is he bounced back from an early season injury in which he missed quite a few games to be a difference maker that year. Maybe Thomas won't be able to do the same but it does happen.

Edited by -OZ-
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6 hours ago, -OZ- said:

Does Antonio brown last year count? 

Tyreek hill in 2019? 

I think the super low ADP on AB last year was based on suspension and him not being signed. Unless I am misremembering, Tyreek Hill's dip in 2019 was also because people assumed he was going to get suspended. 

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Speaking Wednesday, Saints coach Sean Payton said Michael Thomas should have undergone his ankle operation earlier instead of waiting until June.  

"I'm going to leave it at that," was the extent of Payton's quote. There had been some loose media questioning about the timing of Thomas' operation, but the press was not in a position to judge. They are not the player or a team official. Payton, on the other hand, would not have made his comments without a full understanding of Thomas' situation. It is unclear if Thomas was simply too optimistic and opted to rehab longer than was reasonable, or if this is a Scottie Pippen situation and he deliberately waited to send a message to the team. Whatever happened, he now seems likely to miss at least the first month of the regular season, and perhaps land on reserve/PUP, which would cost him six games. At least from the outside, Thomas' relationship with the Saints has seemed to rapidly sour over the past few years. Thomas is signed through 2024, but this is the final season he has guaranteed money, and it is a modest $1 million.  

SOURCE: Nick Underhill on Twitter 

Jul 28, 2021, 7:22 PM ET

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/07/report-michael-thomas-ignored-calls-from-saints-coaches-trainer-for-three-months/

Ever since the big contract signing....no bueno.  I'm sensing an Antonio Brown vibe here.

Quote

Jeff Duncan of Nola.com reports that Thomas ignored multiple calls over a three-month period as then-Saints trainer Beau Lowery, wide receivers coach Curtis Johnson and head coach Sean Payton all tried to reach him to see how his ankle was doing.

Thomas was initially advised by the Saints’ medical staff to have the ankle surgery immediately after the Saints’ postseason came to an end, but after getting a second opinion he decided to try a more conservative approach and see if the ankle would heal without surgery. That didn’t work, and Thomas ultimately had the surgery in June. The recovery time from the surgery will cause Thomas to miss several games at the start of the season, and Payton said recently that Thomas should have had the surgery earlier.

 

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Don't know if this means a thing so just mentioning this without commentary but he's pretty big on using Twitter and since minicamp when this thing got to a head he's gone 100% silent on Twitter. Basically went from super active to stone cold silence the exact day minicamp ended on June 10th.

 

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52 minutes ago, Maggot Brain said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/07/report-michael-thomas-ignored-calls-from-saints-coaches-trainer-for-three-months/

Ever since the big contract signing....no bueno.  I'm sensing an Antonio Brown vibe here.

 

So basically the heavily regimented timeline was against recommendation of GM, head coach, and now reportedly team doctor. Yeah, I’ll stand by my initial comment on June timing being dumb.

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The antics and acrimony are definitely concerning, but at the same time, he might be coming pretty cheap in drafts. Honestly, I'm more concerned about the departure of Brees than I am with Thomas' mental state. 

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I have him on one dynasty roster and it is really becoming difficult to justify keeping him.  My only solace is that he's in the final year of the contract.  I'll hold for now at his grossly high salary in the hopes that NO IRs him and I get some partial cap relief for a portion of the season.  Other than that, I can see myself dropping him and recouping at least half of this salary for this year.  It would depend on if future transactions/FA bidding/etc are negatively affected.  It's an orphan I inherited and I'm pretty salary cramped. I've got some time, I guess, before I'm forced to make any decisions.

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On 8/7/2021 at 6:31 PM, menobrown said:

Don't know if this means a thing so just mentioning this without commentary but he's pretty big on using Twitter and since minicamp when this thing got to a head he's gone 100% silent on Twitter. Basically went from super active to stone cold silence the exact day minicamp ended on June 10th.

 

So much for that 

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7 hours ago, zamboni said:

 Honestly, I'm more concerned about the departure of Brees than I am with Thomas' mental state. 

I have zero concerns about no Brees.  In the past two years he's given us about a half as season's worth of a sample size with Teddy and Taysom to prove to me he's the most QB proof WR in the league.

Now, not sure he's system proof and I don't think he's long for this system.

As for his mental state I'm not worried about that myself either. Things are obviously bad between him and the Saints but it's not a one way street, while it's hard for me to justify waiting for the surgery he absolutely has some legit gripes. But I have a lot of confidence he remains driven and looking forward to re-establishing himself.

 

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36 minutes ago, menobrown said:

 

he absolutely has some legit gripes. But I have a lot of confidence he remains driven and looking forward to re-establishing himself.

I, too, get quite angsty when I get a contract for $96,250,000, including a $20,000,000 signing bonus, & $60,598,043 guaranteed. 

It vexes me so, though I, personally, would maybe consider doing what's best for my health and my employer in such a situation, since I'm a team player. 

Sarcasm aside, I can't see what he has to gripe about, legitimate or otherwise. The Saints have absolutely taken care of him 

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1 hour ago, BigJim® said:

I may have missed these... what legit gripes does he absolutely have?

 

Like I said it's hard to justify why he waited so long but if you want to look up the gripes it's on this twitter account

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Michael Thomas dynasty owners — what kind of return would you want to trade him currently? 
 

Conversely, if you’re looking to buy low, what would you give up to get him?

 

I’m potentially looking to buy, but it’s hard to find a happy medium where the MT owner doesn’t feel insulted, and where I don’t feel like I’m giving up a lot for potentially damaged goods. I think with a change of scenery he can get back to WR1 status though…

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46 minutes ago, menobrown said:

 

Like I said it's hard to justify why he waited so long but if you want to look up the gripes it's on this twitter account

Ok, I thought you had them off hand. I'm not going to weed through a twitter feed... I'm with Hot Sauce Guy believing it highly unlikely he has grievances that legitimately undo the fact this team backed up a Brinks truck for him.

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At this point I wonder how available he is. Like would Thomas/3rd get CJ Henderson? Seems like both teams would be motivated sellers and buyers. Saints showed interest in CJ, Thomas played for Meyer at OSU, and Chark is a FA at year's end.

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1 hour ago, dewaser said:

Michael Thomas dynasty owners — what kind of return would you want to trade him currently? 
 

 

In a 12 team PPR league (starting 1 qb) I offered up MT and Mac Jones for E. Moore and Lawrence and was rejected without counter. 

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1 minute ago, ffmail4me said:

In a 12 team PPR league (starting 1 qb) I offered up MT and Mac Jones for E. Moore and Lawrence and was rejected without counter. 

Wow, looks like MTs value has plummeted (or rookie fever in full force.)

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13 minutes ago, foxco said:

Wow, looks like MTs value has plummeted (or rookie fever in full force.)

I thought it was a solid offer (especially that this owner already had Lamar Jackson at QB) but yep, clearly not a good time to shop MT. 

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8 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

I thought it was a solid offer (especially that this owner already had Lamar Jackson at QB) but yep, clearly not a good time to shop MT. 

Not a shareholder, but if I had shares of MT I’d wait until he was medically cleared & there was a Rotoworld blurb saying he practiced in full. 

And then I’d sell every single share I had.

the problem with this of course is if whomever is named the starting QB of the Saints struggles out of the gate, giving prospective buyers pause. 

So really ya might have to wait until he plays a full game & hope he puts up good numbers. 

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10 hours ago, dewaser said:

Michael Thomas dynasty owners — what kind of return would you want to trade him currently? 
 

Conversely, if you’re looking to buy low, what would you give up to get him?

 

I’m potentially looking to buy, but it’s hard to find a happy medium where the MT owner doesn’t feel insulted, and where I don’t feel like I’m giving up a lot for potentially damaged goods. I think with a change of scenery he can get back to WR1 status though…

 

I own him after paying a boatload in last offseason to acquire and add to my top scoring squad. I really have no interest in selling as I think he has 2-3 WR1 seasons still. WRs like him can produce in their early 30s. But if so, I'd want a small package where I was getting back a first and sending/getting a few other parts to calibrate the balance as needed.

That said, in my other league I really want to try to acquire and feel if I did a trade offer like that it would probably be accepted. My only hesitancy is I already own Kamara in that league and would prefer to hedge against a NO dumpster fire.

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The more I see the drama start to unfold in the Thomasverse the more I am sooooo glad I traded him  last year right after he clocked a teammate in practice.

At the time when I traded him for AJB and a 1st (turned out to be Lawrence in 1 QB league) many thought that was laughable. For me it boiled down to The QB questions post Brees, the injuries, the twitter rants....it was all red flags for me and that was last year. 

Now that it has all turned into a full on circus, big canopy and all I am glad to sit back and watch. 🍿

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Placed on PUP List to start season. Will miss first 6 weeks. Saints will have 2 more weeks to prep him. Will have to activate him or put him on IR at that point.

ETA: I initially said 6 games, but it's 6 weeks and Saints have an early bye.

Edited by Anarchy99
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5 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Placed on PUP List to start season. Will miss first 6 games. Saints will have 2 more weeks to prep him. Will have to activate him or put him on IR at that point.

 

This is worthy of a new thread.

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On 8/10/2021 at 5:16 AM, Soulfly3 said:

wouldn't offer more than a 2nd for him. mans has mental health issues and made 60M+ guaranteed money (on top of other career earnings)

I dont fully trust that he'll suit up again, or suit up and care enough to go hard.

Would you accept a 2023 first round pick for him now?

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2 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Placed on PUP List to start season. Will miss first 6 weeks. Saints will have 2 more weeks to prep him. Will have to activate him or put him on IR at that point.

ETA: I initially said 6 games, but it's 6 weeks and Saints have an early bye.

I would like to see an official clarification on this but my understanding is that it should be 6 games and not 6 weeks. If so then he wouldn't be eligible to come back until week 8. It has been reported by MSM in both directions on this. 

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1 minute ago, barackdhouse said:

I would like to see an official clarification on this but my understanding is that it should be 6 games and not 6 weeks. If so then he wouldn't be eligible to come back until week 8. It has been reported by MSM in both directions on this. 

I hear you. And I can't remember what the outcome was in these situations in the past. News flash: the media gets stuff like this stuff wrong all the time.

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Saints placed WR Michael Thomas (ankle) on the reserve/PUP list. 

The Saints have yet to officially announce the move, but the report is via the big dog ESPN's Adam Schefter. Although not unexpected, it is still hugely costly for the Saints, as Thomas will now miss the first six games of the season and be ineligible to return before Week 8 against the Bucs. He will miss games against the Packers, Patriots and Seahawks, amongst others. There is strong reason to believe Thomas will be ready when first eligible, but his health has also become something of an enigma over the past year. As has his standing with the Saints, though the sides reportedly cleared the air earlier this month. Marquez Callaway will be the top dog while Thomas is out, but it is safe to bet the "slant king" will instantly become Jameis Winston's top target upon his return and vault himself back into the WR1 mix. If your league has an injured reserve spot, keep Thomas stashed.

 

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5 minutes ago, Scooby1974 said:

Is MT worth anything in redraft? Someone dropped him after our draft and he is a FA but can't be tossed on the IR for some reason.

If you believe web projections, when he comes back he will be good for 15 points per week.  But there's a lot of ifs, ands and buts built into that.

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I did this dance with AJ Green and lost and I’m back in with Thomas.  For me, I draft well and generally build good teams so I’d rather pick an upside player that is a proven stud for pennies on the dollar vs. a Rb handcuff 

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3 hours ago, Banger said:

I did this dance with AJ Green and lost and I’m back in with Thomas.  For me, I draft well and generally build good teams so I’d rather pick an upside player that is a proven stud for pennies on the dollar vs. a Rb handcuff 

Did the same thing with AJ and doing the same thing with Thomas.  Completely agree that gambling on someone who set receiving records just two seasons ago > drafting a lesser known long shot or a handcuff that needs an injury to succeed.

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20 hours ago, Scooby1974 said:

Is MT worth anything in redraft? Someone dropped him after our draft and he is a FA but can't be tossed on the IR for some reason.

Depends on your bench depth but in every league I’ve ever been in I’d jump to take him off the wire. 

Edited by -OZ-
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1 hour ago, Scooby1974 said:

The issue is, he isn't on I.R., so yes, I'd have to take up a bench spot. only 7 of them available. Decisions decisions.

That a league rule or platform thing that a PUP player cannot be put in IR?

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to WR Michael Thomas, NO

Took him at 10.09 in a standard 12 team league. In a second redraft superflex 10 team league with 5 IDP instead of dst I took him 17.06. Both are yahoo leagues so I put him on IR in both and have claims out to add another flier in each league. I feel happy about this and hope he bounces back and gives us a second half of season boost. 

Edited by Blackbear
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