Concept Coop
Footballguy
I just traded Sutton for him, essentially. I thought Sutton looked good last season, and see it as pretty close to a push. I just like Terry a tiny bit more.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Dynasty Value Discussion Thread (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter spider321
- Start date
There was a lot of noise about the Redskins seeking a true #1 this past offseason to pair up with McLaurin. Rivera admitted 2 months ago that they threw a ton of money at Cooper but he elected to stay with Dallas. However, McLaurin made it through FA and the draft without any significant challenges so maybe those fears are unfounded.
Milkman
Footballguy
Hopefully you got more than just a 1 for 1 swap. I can see preferring Terry (I don't) but the consensus value of both isn't close.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Concept Coop
Footballguy
That’s a good point. And he’ll definitely face some real competition eventually.
As for Haskins: I think he’ll bust, but he has a strong arm and throws a nice ball. I think he can support a top receiver, like Bortles and unlike Mariota.
Zyphros
Footballguy
Highlights looked good but overall play I just don't think I watched him/Washington enough to get a good feel. Going around WR27 in recent ADP, seems cheap enough, but it's grouped in with a bunch of other questionable #1's. Deebo, Reagor, Jefferson, Diggs, Woods, Lockett, Boyd. I think his value is where it belongs. I can maybe see a case for maybe 3-4 spots higher but otherwise he's an avoid for me. I'd rather go with a rookie I really like or super any of those WR's I mentioned because there are no QB or even offensive questions (other than the Burrow question mark).
I'm a skins fan and watched him closely last year...hes just really really good. The idea of getting Cooper wasn't a knock on him, rather a move to surround Haskins with weapons to see what they have at QB. Obviously it didn't pan out but it shouldnt be seen as a slight.
He runs beautiful routes, excellent hands, attacks the ball, has fantastic body control in the air, has real speed AND deception...guy is a player. I'm not a believer in Haskins however and his ceiling seems capped with him.
Skins will be an improved team next year but it may not show up a lot in the win column. On paper I struggle to identify a team they are clearly better than in the NFC and it may well result in another top 5 draft pick next year. If that happens, Skins will be firmly in the QB hunt next offseason, which could be the best thing to happen for McLaurin.
The player though? LEGIT.
Milkman
Footballguy
That's a good point. They should be drafting a QB next year and they have a good shot at picking in the top 5.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
On the flipside if they aren't top 5 there's a good chance it's because Haskins did develop so hopefully long-term it works out either way for McLaurin.
Last edited by a moderator:
If I had to describe him in one word, it would be smooth. He was the only thing worth watching last year.
Dez
Footballguy
Price check on Sony Michel...because I been trying to move him and no one wants this dude. What an awful pick this was that year when everyone was taking all those RB's 1-8 in a row leaving DJ Moore, Calvin Ridley and Cortland Sutton for the teams at the end of round 1.
Besides Barkley and Chubb the other 6 have not done much in the 2 years meanwhile those 3 WR's values have sky rocketed.
Everyone always wants to take the RB's but sometimes it's the WRs that you want to get. They last a lot longer in most cases as well.
Besides Barkley and Chubb the other 6 have not done much in the 2 years meanwhile those 3 WR's values have sky rocketed.
Everyone always wants to take the RB's but sometimes it's the WRs that you want to get. They last a lot longer in most cases as well.
Last edited by a moderator:
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
I don't see anyone giving up too much for him, he has almost no buzz to him right now...you are probably just better off keeping him and hoping he can give you some quality depth to your RB unit...while he did not look good last year he still has a very good opportunity to be productive this year as the Pats did not draft a RB or add a vet in free agency (they added JJ Taylor as a UDFA but with his size he would probably have a different role if he works out)...the x-factor is Damien Harris but even if he is legit I gotta believe Michel still gets some carries although it would kill any upside, if Harris is not legit then Michel is their primary ball-carrier by default...as I always say once the injuries start piling up during the season a guy like Michel who is not too appealing right now may be able to bail you out of some weeks...also he is only 25 and did have over 900 yards both seasons as well as 6 and 7 TDs, the big issue with him is he is pretty much useless in the receiving games so he never gets those add-on points which can turn a bad week into a semi-decent week so his weekly floor can be a killer.
Last edited by a moderator:
JohnnyU
Footballguy
In HyperActive 1 I traded Michel and the .2.09 for the 2.03 and took Aiyuk. In Ultimate Fantasy Dynasty devy league I traded Michel, the 2.12, and a 2021 2nd rd pick (I won last year) for the 2.03 and I took Kyle Pitts TE Florida. In Hall of Fame Dynasty I traded Michel and the 3.05 for a 2021 2nd rd pick. In Fantasy Legends II I traded Michel, Montgomery, and James Washington for the 1.05 and took CeeDee Lamb.Boston said:
Last edited by a moderator:
Boston
Footballguy
Good examples of where his value is at which is not much...the thought of him moving you up only 6 spots in the second round this time last year would seem almost laughable but that is where he is...nice move on that last one, unless Montgomery shows a lot more this year the other guy is gonna really regret that one...not really sure what his thinking on that one is as the downside on this trade is pretty obvious.
Last edited by a moderator:
Matt's Eagles
Footballguy
I am rebuilding, what is a reasonable asking price for Levon Bell to be dealt to a contender in rookie picks? 1.10?
Milkman
Footballguy
I always like to get a throw in player with the pick. Someone everyone is more down on than me.....so like a Darrell Henderson.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mark Football
Footballguy
McClaurin vs. Slayton
Who is in a better situation and why?
I know Mclaurin looked real good last season but Slayton looked good too, and is much cheaper right now.
Who is in a better situation and why?
I know Mclaurin looked real good last season but Slayton looked good too, and is much cheaper right now.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
McLaurin is the primary and almost only option.
Slayton is in the mix of nearly a dozen.
Advantage McLaurin.
BradtheAg
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
That's a very interesting trade. I think I take the Evan's side but if you're in love with Dobbins or one of the 1st round WR I can see liking the other side.
Mark Football
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
This is pretty interesting.
To answer your question Brown is 2 years younger than McClaurin and he has a more experienced QB to work with than McClaurin does.
I think that is too big of a gap to be reasonable, and that Brown is likely being over valued.
The both had fantastic rookie years. I was just looking at how good their rookie years were compared to all rookie seasons since 2000 with 900 or more receiving yards.
1 Keenan Allen 2013 21 3-76 SDG NFL 15 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 105 71 1046 14.73 8 69.7 67.6% 9.96
2 Odell Beckham 2014 22 1-12 NYG NFL 12 11 0 1 0.00 0 0 0 0 0.00 39.6 0 0 0.0% 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.0 130 91 1305 14.34 12 108.8 70.0% 10.04
3 Kelvin Benjamin 2014 23 1-28 CAR NFL 16 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 145 73 1008 13.81 9 63.0 50.3% 6.95
4 Anquan Boldin 2003 23 2-54 ARI NFL 16 16 0 1 0.00 0 0 1 0 100.00 0.0 0 0 0.0% 0.00 -45.00 -45.00 0.0 0 0 0 165 101 1377 13.63 8 86.1 61.2% 8.35
5 Dwayne Bowe 2007 23 1-23 KAN NFL 16 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 116 70 995 14.21 5 62.2 60.3% 8.58
6 A.J. Brown 2019 22 2-51 TEN NFL 16 11 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 84 52 1051 20.21 8 65.7 61.9% 12.51
7 Michael Clayton 2004 22 1-15 TAM NFL 16 13 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 122 80 1193 14.91 7 74.6 65.6% 9.78
8 Marques Colston 2006 23 7-252 NOR NFL 14 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 115 70 1038 14.83 8 74.1 60.9% 9.03
9 Amari Cooper 2015 21 1-4 OAK NFL 16 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 130 72 1070 14.86 6 66.9 55.4% 8.23
10 Mike Evans 2014 21 1-7 TAM NFL 15 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 122 68 1051 15.46 12 70.1 55.7% 8.61
11 A.J. Green 2011 23 1-4 CIN NFL 15 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 115 65 1057 16.26 7 70.5 56.5% 9.19
12 DeSean Jackson 2008 22 2-49 PHI NFL 16 15 0 1 0.00 0 0 1 0 100.00 0.0 0 0 0.0% 0.00 -45.00 -45.00 0.0 0 0 0 120 62 912 14.71 2 57.0 51.7% 7.60
13 Andre Johnson 2003 22 1-3 HOU NFL 16 16 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 119 66 976 14.79 4 61.0 55.5% 8.20
14 Julio Jones 2011 22 1-6 ATL NFL 13 13 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 95 54 959 17.76 8 73.8 56.8% 10.09
15 Terry McLaurin 2019 24 3-76 WAS NFL 14 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 93 58 919 15.84 7 65.6 62.4% 9.88
16 D.K. Metcalf 2019 22 2-64 SEA NFL 16 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 100 58 900 15.52 7 56.3 58.0% 9.00
17 Eddie Royal 2008 22 2-42 DEN NFL 15 15 0 1 0.00 0 0 0 0 0.00 39.6 0 0 0.0% 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.0 0 0 0 129 91 980 10.77 5 65.3 70.5% 7.60
18 JuJu Smith-Schuster 2017 21 2-62 PIT NFL 14 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 79 58 917 15.81 7 65.5 73.4% 11.61
19 Michael Thomas 2016 23 2-47 NOR NFL 15 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 121 92 1137 12.36 9 75.8 76.0% 9.40
20 Sammy Watkins 2014 21 1-4 BUF NFL 16 16 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 128 65 982 15.11 6 61.4 50.8% 7.67
Rk Player Year Age Draft Tm Lg G GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Pick6 TD% Int% Rate Sk Yds Sk% Y/A AY/A ANY/A Y/G W L T 4QC GWD Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt
21 Mike Williams 2010 23 4-101 TAM NFL 16 16 0 0
There are a few one year wonders in here but for the most part pretty good company to be in.
Also a promising sign for DK Metcalf. What is his ADP right now?
Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
Thoughts on Joe Mixon’s value? I feel that he’s pretty undervalued after a bit of an underwhelming season last year. That being said, I love his talent and workload, I think the Bengals offense will be much improved and score more with Burrow under center and their OL should be better than last year’s disaster after a couple of FA signings (would be even better if they sign Warford) + Jonah Williams being healthy this season.
I recently traded for 1.01 because I got an offer that was too good to pass up but is flipping that too much for Mixon? My team is ready to win now and while I have strong RB’s (Saquon, Chubb), my depth is very poor and Mixon could start for me in the FLEX over Robert Woods, as well as give me insurance in case Saquon or Chubb gets hurt.
I recently traded for 1.01 because I got an offer that was too good to pass up but is flipping that too much for Mixon? My team is ready to win now and while I have strong RB’s (Saquon, Chubb), my depth is very poor and Mixon could start for me in the FLEX over Robert Woods, as well as give me insurance in case Saquon or Chubb gets hurt.
Milkman
Footballguy
I'd trade the 1.01 for Mixon. Think he's in line for a huge year. There is some holdout risk here though.
Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
Seems like the Bengals want to sign him long term and I’d think they wouldn’t want to have a distraction + key player held out for their franchise QB’s rookie season which makes me feel better about the potential holdout situation.
I’m thinking I’m going to offer 1.01 straight up to the Mixon owner and see what he says.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I gotta figure after the Bell and Gordon holdouts, along with what happened with Gurley, that every single agent (that wasn't already on this wavelength already) in the sports world took a collective breath and said "never again". I just can't imagine him holding out.
Elliot's holdout was a success for him but I see no way on earth Mixon is holding out for more then 5 days. Really just no way you can anymore under the new CBA, especially when you are in the last year of your deal.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I wouldn't give up Mixon for 1.01 because why? So you can maybe get a guy that might transition as well as he did? Unless my team is desperate and I need the homerun that Mixon isn't (he ain't Barkley or CMc) but the 1.01 could be (if CEH is actually Westbrook in that offense, or Taylor gets bellcow work behind that line and a real QB to keep the D honest) I would just stay with the known. He's super talented and has produced nicely and improved and now that team might be improving too. No reason to move that for what could be a Trent Richardson or a Leonard Fournette type arch. Rookies bust and we know Mixon isn't.
Last edited by a moderator:
Boone22
Footballguy
Just two quick comments;
1) McLaurin is only 24 so while you’re right that he’s two years older than Brown, does that really matter at that age?
2) People keep talking about Haskins being inexperienced and just plain “bad” but to me, that makes McLaurin’s performance EVEN more impressive. Imagine if he was playing with Tannehill, like Brown did?
Im not saying I disagree with your comments because I absolutely see your points. I’m just don’t think either explain that drastic of a gap between the two (which you mentioned as well so I think we pretty much align)
Milkman
Footballguy
Plus Haskins and McLaren were college teammates. That helps.Just two quick comments;
1) McLaurin is only 24 so while you’re right that he’s two years older than Brown, does that really matter at that age?
2) People keep talking about Haskins being inexperienced and just plain “bad” but to me, that makes McLaurin’s performance EVEN more impressive. Imagine if he was playing with Tannehill, like Brown did?
Im not saying I disagree with your comments because I absolutely see your points. I’m just don’t think either explain that drastic of a gap between the two (which you mentioned as well so I think we pretty much align)
I actually think Fournette has had a better fantasy career then Mixon so far so I can't call Fournette a bust and say Mixon is not. I would personally label both of them as disappointing so far, but for me Mixon has been more so.
That's not the same thing as saying Fournette does not stand a much higher chance of spiraling down and becoming a bust more then Mixon. That's something else entirely, of course I like Mixon's future more. But that, like pick how pick 1.1 will perform, is a projection.
I'm not sure what I'd do if offered 1.1 for Mixon because my point here is not to defend Fournette but to say Mixon was one of the biggest busts of the year last year, is giving his owners an underwhelming 13.95 fantasy points in his career with one low end RB1 performance on his resume. Him being a stud or elite fantasy prospect, like whoever you draft at 1.1, remains a projection. Again I would not call Mixon a bust, but he's not performed like a stud either for fantasy purposes.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I dont think the age difference matters that much as far as their career path and what they can do this season and the near future. WR tend to peak in their performance at age 26 to 28 and then a shallow decline until 32 years old where the decline gets steeper historically.
It does matter if you are looking at things from the view of break out age and what those studies say about a players odds to have a successful career. The younger prospects having a better chance of having a good career.
I am not saying I agree with that specifically when it comes to McClaurin having worse odds of having a good career for FF. I just acknowledge this perception exists and may continue to exist based on the difference of the players ADP.
I think you make a good point that perhaps we shouldn't still be evaluating these players through such a lens when they have already proven to be performers in their rookie seasons. That is why I brought up the list of WR who had 900 yards or more in their rookie seasons. It is a pretty short list. 21 players. Being curious I looked at all WR going back to 1990 and that only adds 5 more players. Randy Moss, Terry Glenn, Joey Galloway, Kevin Johnson and Eddie Kennison.
53% of this sample has happened in the last 10 seasons. So the NFL changes have caused more WR hit this 900 yard threshold as rookies than they had prior to 2010.
Going back to the age question. Only two WR in this sample were 24 years old as rookies. McClaurin and Joey Galloway. 58% of the guys who did this as rookies were 22 or younger in their rookie season.
50% of these players were 1st round picks. 31% of them were 2nd round picks, McClaurin and Keenan Allen were the only 3rd round picks.
To answer your question the age matters differently to different people.
I am still trying to come to grips with this alternate reality where Ryan Tannehill is considered to be a good QB. Small sample size. But the QB do seem to play their best football age 28-32 which is the window he is in right now.
Yeah I don;t think the age and draft position are enough to justify the gap in value. At the same time I am looking at why people may be so high on AJ Brown and how reasonable that is.m not saying I disagree with your comments because I absolutely see your points. I’m just don’t think either explain that drastic of a gap between the two (which you mentioned as well so I think we pretty much align)
rockaction
Footballguy
Tried to get Kareem Hunt and Tony Pollard for a mid first-round pick in 2021. Guy needed to hold Hunt.
It doesn't fit the calculators, but I really don't blame him. If you've held Hunt for this long, he's just about at free agency this next year, so why not see where he goes. IMO, Hunt's value can only increase as time moves along. Get him now.
eta* I should say I tried to get Higbee, too, but it was an initial offer and no counter-offer was sent in regard to anyone. He's jus' holding.
It doesn't fit the calculators, but I really don't blame him. If you've held Hunt for this long, he's just about at free agency this next year, so why not see where he goes. IMO, Hunt's value can only increase as time moves along. Get him now.
eta* I should say I tried to get Higbee, too, but it was an initial offer and no counter-offer was sent in regard to anyone. He's jus' holding.
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction
Footballguy
Gotta love some Higbee, I guess. That was really what he said. Wasn't gonna move Higbee. Or Hunt, for that matter.
I dunno, guy drafted ninth, so finished in fourth. What the heck do I know? I only know I was pretty clear in stating that I was really interested in Hunt and Pollard. Pollard went unmentioned in his response, though he had earlier won auctions for two Dallas rookie RBs at a buck a pop.
I'm the guy who rosters Elliott. Is he trying to tell me something?
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, I just tried.
What would a price check on Tony Pollard be, then?
A mid first-rounder for he and Hunt was a pretty significant offer. Calcs have me losing by a lot in that deal, but I'd still take it.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah that's a hefty price. Not sure of Pollard alone. Probably ahead of Zach Moss so early 2ndish.
Milkman
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
What's your value, then?
That he is undervalued is sort of what I'm saying by both word and deed.
I don't think he's undervalued in redraft, but he's a free agent after the year. Somebody will sign him. If Ke'Shawn doesn't work out in Tampa, I could see him there easily. Hunt does it all in the backfield.
