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3 minutes ago, robb said:

My preference is Akers, if only for the upside. I see Miami possibly drafting a RB next year.

Agreed. I think Akers has much more long term upside. Seems like Gaskin/Ahmed are holding down the fort nicely, but Flores will want to surround Tua with more powerful weapons and they have the draft capital to do so. 

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Tentative rookie RB/WR tiers after diving into clips and stats this weekend:   RB Josh Jacobs, Raiders - No major weaknesses and walks into a starting role. Power, hands, elusiveness, and e

That is interesting. As a Gordon owner here and there, I think I'd have jumped on that offer in any league I have him, without even looking at my own roster or that of the owner sending me the pick.

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On 11/27/2020 at 12:23 PM, BearsFan4Life said:

Looking into your crystal ball for next year.... who would you rather grab now for next year ..

Gaskin

or

Akers

Have the opportunity to add either one to an offer to acquire, but not sure which one to add.

Akers.

Gaskin has been in the league a long time already. This season has likely been his most relevant. It wont last.

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5 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Akers.

Gaskin has been in the league a long time already. This season has likely been his most relevant. It wont last.

I’m not a believer, and also prefer Akers, but isn’t this Gaskin’s second year?

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On 11/27/2020 at 12:28 PM, The Captain said:

Thoughts on Golladays value in PPR? I’m currently the #2 seed but my WR depth is terrible with Adams, Julio, Golladay and Deebo my only viable WRs. Not sure Julio is going to make it through the season and I could see the Lions shutting Golladay down with the season lost. Thinking about selling Kenny for someone who can help my playoff run. I’m know this is a sell low moment for Kenny so I’m not going to get equal value but this is likely my one shot at a run before I blow this team up. What type of WR from a non-contending team would you expect in return? 

Going into 2020 I thought Golladay was being over drafted.

That said he is the 34th overall player according to this ADP so worth taking a shot at WR ranked below him that you think can help you. 

Robert Woods? Tyler Boyd? I would take Jerry Juedy for him but not sure JJ owners would let him go.

Adam Thielen if you are just looking for a guy for this year.

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How much would you give up or how much would it take for you to give up Jefferson, I’ve just had a Michael Thomas straight up offer declined very quickly. There are very few WRs I wouldn’t move for him personally. Just wondering if rookie fever has hit me on this

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4 hours ago, dewmass said:

How much would you give up or how much would it take for you to give up Jefferson, I’ve just had a Michael Thomas straight up offer declined very quickly. There are very few WRs I wouldn’t move for him personally. Just wondering if rookie fever has hit me on this

Metcalf, Lamb, AJ Brown. Those are the only 3 WR's who arguably have more value than Jefferson and even that might be a stretch. If you're buying him, you'd need to add to every single other WR to upgrade to Jefferson. 

I'd offer MT for Jefferson in a heartbeat. You'd have to add something significant to the MT side if I owned Jefferson and wanted to trade him away. The thing is no Jefferson owner would trade him away. Even if that team was competing, you're not getting anything better production wise if you trade him away AND he's a young stud. No reason to move him unless the offer is godly. 

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1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

The top 5 dynasty WRs (with an eye on youth) IMO are Metcalf, Lamb, Jefferson, and McLaurin, and Brown. Probably in that order.

Funny enough, all but Lamb play in offenses that prefer to run over pass.

I would put Higgins in that group and drop McLaurin.  Love McLaurin but don't consider him a top 5 dynasty WR.

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I was offered Deshaun Watson for Barkley from a team that is out of contention--I am leading team but have Goff/Bridgewater at QB.

I turned it down but would it be fair to ask the Watson owner to throw in his second round pick?

How do people rate Barkley's value right now?

Edited by az_prof
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3 hours ago, Zyphros said:

Metcalf, Lamb, AJ Brown. Those are the only 3 WR's who arguably have more value than Jefferson and even that might be a stretch. If you're buying him, you'd need to add to every single other WR to upgrade to Jefferson. 

I'd offer MT for Jefferson in a heartbeat. You'd have to add something significant to the MT side if I owned Jefferson and wanted to trade him away. The thing is no Jefferson owner would trade him away. Even if that team was competing, you're not getting anything better production wise if you trade him away AND he's a young stud. No reason to move him unless the offer is godly. 

Not sure if you'd call it godly, but had to give up 2 mid firsts, early and mid second and a 3rd to get him. 

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1 hour ago, az_prof said:

I was offered Deshaun Watson for Barkley from a team that is out of contention--I am leading team but have Goff/Bridgewater at QB.

I turned it down but would it be fair to ask the Watson owner to throw in his second round pick?

How do people rate Barkley's value right now?


Is this SF? Why would you do this otherwise 

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25 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:


Is this SF? Why would you do this otherwise 

Probably because Watson >>> Goff/Bridgewater 

Still a bit low for Barkley imo. Then again the shelf life of an elite QB is much longer than that of a RB. 

Edited by Ray Barboni
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3 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I'd think about Higgins. Surprised by your McLaurin opinion.

Mostly it is based on QB situation.  I like the future of Joe Burrow and so his future WR1 who has shown a lot already ranks higher than a very talented McLaurin who alas has no QB.

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6 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

The top 5 dynasty WRs (with an eye on youth) IMO are Metcalf, Lamb, Jefferson, and McLaurin, and Brown. Probably in that order.

Funny enough, all but Lamb play in offenses that prefer to run over pass.

Yeah I was listening to Howie Long talk about how Jefferson could be even better on a team that throws 40 times a game.

He maybe would have more receptions. I dunno about yards.

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On 11/29/2020 at 12:01 PM, az_prof said:

I would put Higgins in that group and drop McLaurin.  Love McLaurin but don't consider him a top 5 dynasty WR.

Why?

All Mclaurin does is produce numbers regardless of sporting cast.

Maybe there are 5 guys you have ahead of him, he should still be in the top 10 for sure.

I think he is better than Brown for example but if people prefer Brown it's close enough to me.

Edited by Biabreakable
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16 hours ago, dewmass said:

How much would you give up or how much would it take for you to give up Jefferson, I’ve just had a Michael Thomas straight up offer declined very quickly. There are very few WRs I wouldn’t move for him personally. Just wondering if rookie fever has hit me on this

A few weeks ago I gave up two 1sts (projected at the time, and still, 1.05 and a bye week playoff team so 1.09-1.12) plus Courtland Sutton. Opinions in the trade thread seemed a roughly even split between “good get/worth it to pry away a guy like this once they’ve broken out” and “solid player but that’s a lot to pay”

I am not having any regrets thus far

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7 minutes ago, InDitkaWeTrust said:

Value on DeAndre Hopkins moving forward?  ARZ has an absolutely brutal schedule down the stretch, has been trending toward the running game,  and Hopkins is 28.

He's an old elite. Is he going to age like AJ Green? Julio Jones? Antonio Brown when he's not going postal? 

Schedule isn't a consideration for me. If I'm in it I'm riding him and testing the market in spring. 

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1 hour ago, InDitkaWeTrust said:

Value on DeAndre Hopkins moving forward?  ARZ has an absolutely brutal schedule down the stretch, has been trending toward the running game,  and Hopkins is 28.

You'd be very lucky to get Metcalf, AJ Brown, McLaurin, Lamb, Jefferson, Claypool for him straight up. I'd imagine it's possible to get DJ Moore, Godwin, Ridley, Jeudy straight up. I think that's all the young studs on the rise that would be considered too much or just right. The problem with that is their youth will cost more and it almost needs to be the perfect situation with your trade partner.

Moving forward for the rest of the year and onward, if you can get a single 1st for him I'd cash out. It might be possible to get Diontae type player (Pittman, Deebo, JuJu) and a high 2nd or something like that. More realistically the most I'd be looking to pay is something like Boyd/2nd. I prefer to keep my teams very young though and find production from top producers on the cheap rather than pay up for aged production. 

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On 11/25/2020 at 5:07 PM, DropKick said:

Any adjustment to your thinking for the unusual circumstances that this year's rookies fell into?  Lack of everything?

I haven’t made a conscious adjustment personally, but that’s not to say one isn’t called for. I was really surprised that offenses seemed to find a rhythm before defenses. It wouldn’t be any more surprising for rookie WRs to adjust faster than rookie RBs, I suppose. I have no idea.

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Just now, Andy Dufresne said:

Just tried to get Hopkins from a 4-7, non-playoff team for a late 1st. Rejected.

Late 1st and one of the rookie WRs should get it done. Not saying that it's the price you want to pay, but that seems right.

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2 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

People above were implying it was. I didn't think it would be.

Yeah, but that came from a guy who consistently values youth. Even at the receiver position. So to him a late first is quite the sacrifice of younger flesh.

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22 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Just tried to get Hopkins from a 4-7, non-playoff team for a late 1st. Rejected.

Reject no counter for me. I only own one dynasty share but it is SF and I have him paired with Murray. I want to say I'll never sell but I'm also really strong at WR and would probably entertain a good deal. This wouldn't even start a conversation with me, though. You would have to give a minimum of one of those WRs talked about above plus that 1st, but who would want to do that? I'm not trying to shop him so unless people come at me with legitimate offers, and a late 1st just isn't, I'm likely holding into his 30s, and I don't necessarily mind that. 

*You never know who will go for what so a late 1st isn't a bad place to start per se, it just would be with me*

 

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On 11/27/2020 at 10:23 AM, BearsFan4Life said:

Looking into your crystal ball for next year.... who would you rather grab now for next year ..

Gaskin

or

Akers

Have the opportunity to add either one to an offer to acquire, but not sure which one to add.

Definitely Akers. I would like to once again thank Gaskin for his service on some of my depleted rosters this year, but he just isn't very good, IMO. I'm not even comfortable saying he gets what is blocked. I don't think he has good vision or patience, and he is a limited one-cut runner that doesn't make people miss or break tackles. He is shifty, though, so I think the only real thing missing for him is his vision and timing. He makes me think of Phillip Lindsay if Lindsay were terrible. I'm probably being overharsh and maybe he takes another step forward in year three. Not even sure he is going to get the ball much more in year 2. I would be drafting a couple RBs next year if I were the Dolphins. 

I'm not in love with Akers or his situation and drafted him nowhere. But I think his arrow is pointing up, at least at the moment. If nothing else I think he is an asset that will maintain or increase value in 2021, whereas I really think Gaskin's relevance is maybe already done.

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5 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I guess if I were a non-playoff team I would be closer to the "willing to sell" end of the spectrum, but still a RNC.

I would reject too. 28 years old means he's still got at least three years left at an elite level.

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7 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I'm not in love with Akers or his situation and drafted him nowhere. But I think his arrow is pointing up, at least at the moment. If nothing else I think he is an asset that will maintain or increase value in 2021, whereas I really think Gaskin's relevance is maybe already done.

To add to this, Akers still has 2020 league winner in his range of outcomes. Gaskin? Mmmmmmmaybe.

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39 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I would reject too. 28 years old means he's still got at least three years left at an elite level.

Hopkins for a late 1st, yeah I can see Reject.   But I am getting offers for my mid-late 1st for Julio Jones; at 31 yo, he is a different level for dynasty.  

I countered with 2 late 2021 Seconds... it was sitting there for 2 days while he countered a few time each for my 1st (7-10 range) 

With ATL on disarray what is Julio's value?  I figured my two 2nds would be good....   He is 4-7 and out of playoffs... I made playoffs (6 of 12) 

Edited by Birdie048
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15 hours ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, but that came from a guy who consistently values youth. Even at the receiver position. So to him a late first is quite the sacrifice of younger flesh.

Agreed, Zyphros ranking thread skews heavily towards youth. I don’t think his comments are representative of what most owners are thinking of 28 year old elite WRs. Paired up with Murray in that offense looks about as solid a prediction for continued elite numbers over the next 3 years as you can get.

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5 minutes ago, Birdie048 said:

Hopkins for a late 1st, yeah I can see Reject.   But I am getting offers for my mid-late 1st for Julio Jones; at 31 yo, he is a different level for dynasty.  

I countered with 2 late 2021 Seconds... it was sitting there for 2 days while he countered a few time each for my 1st (7-10 range) 

With ATL on disarray what is Julio's value?  I figured my two 2nds would be good....  

Going to take a mid-1st IMO as he’s most likely owned by contenders, he’s still putting up numbers when healthy which means not much of an age discount. Might be better off swapping a healthier but lessor valued guy for the playoff run.

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6 hours ago, Buckna said:

Going to take a mid-1st IMO as he’s most likely owned by contenders, he’s still putting up numbers when healthy which means not much of an age discount. Might be better off swapping a healthier but lessor valued guy for the playoff run.

Jones is tough. I took less at the beginning of the year, it seems. I traded him for DJ Chark and Mostert. It's an almost dead even swap on the year for the two receivers, with Chark being younger but missing time with his ribs like Julio has had a balky hammy. But I traded Julio because I foresaw his injuries coming as a function of age, while I didn't see Chark failing to make the field in two or three games this year.

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2 hours ago, Buckna said:

Agreed, Zyphros ranking thread skews heavily towards youth. I don’t think his comments are representative of what most owners are thinking of 28 year old elite WRs. Paired up with Murray in that offense looks about as solid a prediction for continued elite numbers over the next 3 years as you can get.

It all depends on situation though. If there's a team with Nuk and isn't competitive, it's unlikely they're a year away from being competitive. There's a legit argument they should just take whatever they can get no? I don't doubt he'll be productive for the next couple years with Murray paired like you mentioned, but his value is forever more in decline (although very gradually). 

Just look at the conversations this year and last year. Metcalf/AJ Brown/McLaurin/Lamb/Claypool/Godwin/DJ Moore/Jefferson/Higgins/JuJu all being in consideration for dynasty WR1. That obviously pushes Nuk down a bit if true by the masses. Some would prefer the production, I prefer the age AND the production. The young elite guys rise so quickly in value that it's a huge advantage to have them at the early beginnings of their career. It's immediate profit. 

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13 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

It all depends on situation though. If there's a team with Nuk and isn't competitive, it's unlikely they're a year away from being competitive. There's a legit argument they should just take whatever they can get no? I don't doubt he'll be productive for the next couple years with Murray paired like you mentioned, but his value is forever more in decline (although very gradually). 

Just look at the conversations this year and last year. Metcalf/AJ Brown/McLaurin/Lamb/Claypool/Godwin/DJ Moore/Jefferson/Higgins/JuJu all being in consideration for dynasty WR1. That obviously pushes Nuk down a bit if true by the masses. Some would prefer the production, I prefer the age AND the production. The young elite guys rise so quickly in value that it's a huge advantage to have them at the early beginnings of their career. It's immediate profit. 

This isn't necessarily true- there's been so much disruption this year between covid and injuries that you could have come into the season as a favorite, had bad luck and weren't competitive, but would still be a favorite going into next year.

No, they shouldn't just take whatever they can get for him.

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27 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I don't see that as a legit argument.

 

25 minutes ago, humpback said:

This isn't necessarily true- there's been so much disruption this year between covid and injuries that you could have come into the season as a favorite, had bad luck and weren't competitive, but would still be a favorite going into next year.

No, they shouldn't just take whatever they can get for him.

That's why I pre-faced it with "it depends on the situation". But feel free to mis-quote me to prove your point. If the team has no other options then yes they should. If they're kind of middle of the road, they either have to choose to compete or rebuild. In that case they would shop around a bit and see what offers are available. Some leagues there are no teams that would trade for Hopkins because he's too expensive to begin with. If that owner is going nowhere and it's a dull league then it makes sense. We've all been a league like that I'm sure. Point being that each league is different, everyone values players differently, and usually team context goes into that evaluation. 

Just because I'd cash Nuk out for a mid 1st doesn't mean I wouldn't shop him around looking for better options IF I were a team going nowhere. If I were a competitive team I wouldn't do that. If I were middle of the road then league context might tell me if I would/wouldn't. 

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On 11/30/2020 at 1:26 PM, Andy Dufresne said:

Just tried to get Hopkins from a 4-7, non-playoff team for a late 1st. Rejected.

If I was lucky enough to have Hopkins I would be shopping him right now. I'm not saying he's old at 28 or anything, but seldom do receivers maintain wr1 numbers into their 30's. Maybe he falls of a cliff or gradual declines into a wr2, either way you can't count on more than 2 years of bonafide studliness.

On the other hand, I would hold if I could only get a late 1st.

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1 hour ago, Zyphros said:

 

That's why I pre-faced it with "it depends on the situation". But feel free to mis-quote me to prove your point. If the team has no other options then yes they should.

I did not misquote you. I directly quoted you and I absolutely disagree that some one should "take what they can get" - that's a poor way to run a team. You never have to trade some one. There could always be another opportunity down the road.

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1 hour ago, Zyphros said:

That's why I pre-faced it with "it depends on the situation". But feel free to mis-quote me to prove your point. If the team has no other options then yes they should. If they're kind of middle of the road, they either have to choose to compete or rebuild. In that case they would shop around a bit and see what offers are available. Some leagues there are no teams that would trade for Hopkins because he's too expensive to begin with. If that owner is going nowhere and it's a dull league then it makes sense. We've all been a league like that I'm sure. Point being that each league is different, everyone values players differently, and usually team context goes into that evaluation. 

Just because I'd cash Nuk out for a mid 1st doesn't mean I wouldn't shop him around looking for better options IF I were a team going nowhere. If I were a competitive team I wouldn't do that. If I were middle of the road then league context might tell me if I would/wouldn't. 

Who misquoted you? I literally bolded your exact quote, I just disagree with it.

You said, and I quote again, "If there's a team with Nuk and isn't competitive, it's unlikely they're a year away from being competitive." I disagree that you can make that assumption, particularly this season with so much more disruption due to covid and injuries. Stud players like Dak, McCaffrey, Barkley, Chubb, Ekeler, Sanders, Mixon, Godwin, Diontae, Deebo, Golladay, Kittle, Fant, Goedert, etc. have missed huge chunks of the season. The Nuk owner in my league owns several of these guys so he isn't competitive this season but will be one of the favorites next, just like he was coming into this year.

There's a ton of luck in fantasy football as it is, this year quite possibly more than ever. I'd be surprised if most Nuk owners with non-playoff teams this year were unlikely to compete next year, most are probably pretty close partly because of him. Even if they weren't I disagree that they should take whatever they can get. It's not like he's 35 years old, his value isn't likely to fall off a cliff. If you can get something good, sure explore it, but if not hold and see how it goes next year.

Speaking of misquoting, you're the one who originally said "if you can get a single 1st for him I'd cash out." Now you're changing it to a mid-1st- you know those aren't the same thing, right?

Edited by humpback
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