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Bitcoin-Explain to me how to buy these things (5 Viewers)

KGB said:
BC already back to 50K

Is GBTC they best stock to follow the price of BC?  Most of my money is in etrade and only have a bit in robinhood for buying BC
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Other guys in the thread probably more qualified to answer than me as I’ve only really been following for a month.  My lazy explanation below.....

GBTC is a near 1:1 follow Of BTC.  It’s trades at a small premium but it was sub 4% last I checked.

MSTR is the company with the CEO that keeps borrowing 1B cash at a time and goes into the market and buys BTC with it.  It’s a tech company but what it’s turning Into is a BTC holding company.  Seems to trade at 100% premium to BTC so it acts like a 2x ETF

RIOT and MARA are crypto miners with focus on BTC.  They are trading to some big premiums and obviously are mining more every day, as much as you can still mine.  They are like 3x ETFs

All of the following is for trading and investing but if are pure at heart to “the movement” you should have a wallet and control your own keys and buy some and put it into “cold storage”.  This is like the equivalent of buying a bar of gold and locking it up in your safe or a safety deposit box.  Probably not day trading this bit hold Long term.

 
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The Ref said:
Other guys in the thread probably more qualified to answer than me as I’ve only really been following for a month.  My lazy explanation below.....

GBTC is a near 1:1 follow Of BTC.  It’s trades at a small premium but it was sub 4% last I checked.

MSTR is the company with the CEO that keeps borrowing 1B cash at a time and goes into the market and buys BTC with it.  It’s a tech company but what it’s turning Into is a BTC holding company.  Seems to trade at 100% premium to BTC so it acts like a 2x ETF

RIOT and MARA are crypto miners with focus on BTC.  They are trading to some big premiums and obviously are mining more every day, as much as you can still mine.  They are like 3x ETFs

All of the following is for trading and investing but if are pure at heart to “the movement” you should have a wallet and control your own keys and buy some and put it into “cold storage”.  This is like the equivalent of buying a bar of gold and locking it up in your safe or a safety deposit box.  Probably not day trading this bit hold Long term.
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Thanks.

I'm in HEX for my "actually owning" wallet type of crypto.  I was just looking for a swing trade type symbols.  Perfect explanation.  Thank you very much.

Order placed for RIOT for the AM

 
@Todem, a very experienced and respected broker from the stocks thread, called bitcoin a Ponzi scheme yesterday.

I have no dog in this fight, rather, I'd simply like to learn a lot more.  As such, I think a discussion between some of the bitcoin experts like @hooter311 and others, along with Todem and that camp, would benefit all.

Maybe someone could start a thread for it?  Very interesting times.

 
Rodrigo Duterte said:
@Todem, a very experienced and respected broker from the stocks thread, called bitcoin a Ponzi scheme yesterday.

I have no dog in this fight, rather, I'd simply like to learn a lot more.  As such, I think a discussion between some of the bitcoin experts like @hooter311 and others, along with Todem and that camp, would benefit all.

Maybe someone could start a thread for it?  Very interesting times.
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This thread should be fine for a discussion. My experience has been that most "trader/brokers" I've heard from are very negative about Crypto. I can't decide if that is due to a lack of understanding or a perception of a threat. Probably a little of both. 

 
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ConstruxBoy said:
This thread should be fine for a discussion. My experience has been that most "trader/brokers" I've heard from are very negative about Crypto. I can't decide if that is due to a lack of understanding or a perception of a threat. Probably a little of both. 
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I suspect it’s because the US government could come in and crush it like a cockroachI suspect it’s because the US government could come in and crush it like a cockroach

 
ConstruxBoy said:
This thread should be fine for a discussion. My experience has been that most "trader/brokers" I've heard from are very negative about Crypto. I can't decide if that is due to a lack of understanding or a perception of a threat. Probably a little of both. 
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It's hard to know unless they articulate a reason. Even then,  they may not all share the same reasons.

Outside of the financial world there are even more reasons given. For example, I mentioned btc to my boss about a month ago. He said he had no interest because he didn't trust it. One of the reasons he didn't trust it was because it isn't FDIC insured. I tried explaining why that shouldn't be a consideration but didn't get through and didn't have the energy to commit to the conversation. 

 
CGRdrJoe said:
ETH is the one that is killing me only cause I entered it last week drunk off my ###
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I've made some late night purchases myself.  They eventually work out.  I started buying in November 2020 and have since doubled my money.  Got my feet wet in November, bought my first chunk in December, then another in January and a tad in Feb.  I've learned with every big spike, a small correction follows 4-5 days later.   I've been emptying out my robin hood account and few other accounts that don't really perform.  

I like where I'm at now.  I have some weekly deposits set up on BTC and Eth and about 15% tied up alt coins.  If you can play that game and be patient you can make some real profit.  I figured out this week I need to be better at sitting on profit via a stable coin, instead of converting one alt to another.  

If I had taken some of the coins that were up 50% or more and put them on a stable coin and had that buying power yesterday I could have made bank.  Everything was down 20-30% yesterday.  Most of it is already recovering.  

 
Capella said:
How?
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Yeah, I didn't know if he had a real explanation because I don't understand how that would work. I get that India is saying they ban it but I have the same questions. How does a government ban it? It started as a medium of exchange on the dark web. At worst it goes back to being that. 

 
HaFo SaFo said:
Have the IRS classify them as collectibles like regular coins, require the exchanges to report ownership, and tax any profits at 28%. 
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I don't think that crushes them at all to be honest. I get taxed when I sell sports cards on EBay. Doesn't crush the market for sports cards on EBay. 

 
ConstruxBoy said:
Jokes aside, please explain to me how the Govt can crush it? 
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I believe this was a legit threat before major companies started adding it to their balance sheet. With each new news story, this threat diminishes, IMO.

 
urbanhack said:
I believe this was a legit threat before major companies started adding it to their balance sheet. With each new news story, this threat diminishes, IMO.
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Oh sure, I just don't get that the Govt can "kill it," per se. Taxing it either as an investment or as a collectible looks reasonably likely. But who didn't really expect that? 

 
urbanhack said:
I believe this was a legit threat before major companies started adding it to their balance sheet. With each new news story, this threat diminishes, IMO.
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This

This is why BTC isn’t a tulip bulb.  
 

In addition - if Biden came out tomorrow and suggested that BTC needs to be shut down I wouldn’t guarantee we would see a price drop.  Nigeria banned BTC and it’s currently trading as much as a 50% premium there.  People in India are scrambling to get in as well before their government shuts them out.

 
hooter311 said:
The federal reserve's chief of innovation, sunayna suteja, touts bitcoin on twitter.

@sunayna
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Hell, I'd argue that governments will want a new tax revenue stream and should find a way to encourage more BTC, as long as it doesn't take over as an official currency since there is no BTC printer going brrrrr. 

 
The biggest question I have about Bitcoin is how much can anyone trust whoever created it? From what I've read, the Satoshi guy might either be dead, or a bunch of people, or who knows. I've also read that whoever Satoshi Nakamoto is, he/they have amassed 1.1 million bitcoins for themselves and supposedly haven't sold any.

Now if this imaginary person is dead and those coins could never be used, that is one thing. But if some anonymous person or collective is just sitting on over a million coins isn't that a huge red flag?

I get not trusting governments with monetary policy, but at least there is some accountability in a democracy. But putting trust an anonymous dude or persons who in essence could control the price of Bitcoin on a whim seems sketchy. 

 
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ericttspikes said:
Now if this imaginary person is dead and those coins could never be used, that is one thing. But if some anonymous person or collective is just sitting on over a million coins isn't that a huge red flag?
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This is about the one thing that gives me the slightest reservations about BTC.  What happens when 5-10 people or organizations own half the BTC out there.  Would everyone else just say screw it, sell off and let these 5-10 organizations keep it all to themselves?  Then watch it be worthless?  

Its probably not much different than what is going on now with the dollar....1%'ers and all.  

 
“I think people who are professional traders that are going to trade cryptocurrencies, it’s just disgusting,” Munger added at the time. “It’s like someone else is trading turds and you decide I can’t be left out.”   :lmao:

 
ericttspikes said:
The biggest question I have about Bitcoin is how much can anyone trust whoever created it? From what I've read, the Satoshi guy might either be dead, or a bunch of people, or who knows. I've also read that whoever Satoshi Nakamoto is, he/they have amassed 1.1 million bitcoins for themselves and supposedly haven't sold any.

Now if this imaginary person is dead and those coins could never be used, that is one thing. But if some anonymous person or collective is just sitting on over a million coins isn't that a huge red flag?

I get not trusting governments with monetary policy, but at least there is some accountability in a democracy. But putting trust an anonymous dude or persons who in essence could control the price of Bitcoin on a whim seems sketchy. 
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Perhaps I can get you to see a different POV related to your concern.  There have been 3 bull market in BTC’s history; 2013, 2017 and the one we’re in now.  Satoshi could have sold at the 2013/2017/2021 market peaks when the value of his/her BTC was:

2013: $1.15B
2017: $21.8B
2021: $63.8B

...the stones it would take to hodl thru those 2013/2017 market peaks...and even now when hodling has become mainstream would seem unrealistic when you consider human behavior.  To not sell a single one?  After the 2017 bull market, a year later, Satoshi’s BTC stack decreased to a value of $3.8B.  Not one moved.  Consider also that BTC launched in 2009, so for years, it was worth bupkus.

This is also copied directly from his wiki page...

Nakamoto continued to collaborate with other developers on the bitcoin software until mid-2010, making all modifications to the source code himself. He then handed over control of the source code repository and network alert key to Gavin Andresen,[20] transferred several related domains to various prominent members of the bitcoin community, and stopped his recognized involvement in the project.

I’m always sensitive to concerns about people’s hesitation getting into the space.  It’s a lot to take in.  But we’ve seen the advent of institutional investors coming into the space in the last 12 months.  The concern you have seems to be one that should dissipate over time and when you think about what Satoshi hasn’t realized by selling.

 
TheDirtyWord said:
Perhaps I can get you to see a different POV related to your concern.  There have been 3 bull market in BTC’s history; 2013, 2017 and the one we’re in now.  Satoshi could have sold at the 2013/2017/2021 market peaks when the value of his/her BTC was:

2013: $1.15B
2017: $21.8B
2021: $63.8B

...the stones it would take to hodl thru those 2013/2017 market peaks...and even now when hodling has become mainstream would seem unrealistic when you consider human behavior.  To not sell a single one?  After the 2017 bull market, a year later, Satoshi’s BTC stack decreased to a value of $3.8B.  Not one moved.  Consider also that BTC launched in 2009, so for years, it was worth bupkus.

This is also copied directly from his wiki page...

Nakamoto continued to collaborate with other developers on the bitcoin software until mid-2010, making all modifications to the source code himself. He then handed over control of the source code repository and network alert key to Gavin Andresen,[20] transferred several related domains to various prominent members of the bitcoin community, and stopped his recognized involvement in the project.

I’m always sensitive to concerns about people’s hesitation getting into the space.  It’s a lot to take in.  But we’ve seen the advent of institutional investors coming into the space in the last 12 months.  The concern you have seems to be one that should dissipate over time and when you think about what Satoshi hasn’t realized by selling.
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Plot twist....

There is no Satoshi.

:tinfoilhat:

 
jb1020 said:
This is about the one thing that gives me the slightest reservations about BTC.  What happens when 5-10 people or organizations own half the BTC out there.  Would everyone else just say screw it, sell off and let these 5-10 organizations keep it all to themselves?  Then watch it be worthless?  

Its probably not much different than what is going on now with the dollar....1%'ers and all.  
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You realize bitcoin is currently a 900+ billion dollar asset right now?  Microstrategy is the largest public holder outside of the chinese and us government. And they are sitting on less than 100k btc.

 
TheDirtyWord said:
Perhaps I can get you to see a different POV related to your concern.  There have been 3 bull market in BTC’s history; 2013, 2017 and the one we’re in now.  Satoshi could have sold at the 2013/2017/2021 market peaks when the value of his/her BTC was:

2013: $1.15B
2017: $21.8B
2021: $63.8B

...the stones it would take to hodl thru those 2013/2017 market peaks...and even now when hodling has become mainstream would seem unrealistic when you consider human behavior.  To not sell a single one?  After the 2017 bull market, a year later, Satoshi’s BTC stack decreased to a value of $3.8B.  Not one moved.  Consider also that BTC launched in 2009, so for years, it was worth bupkus.

This is also copied directly from his wiki page...

Nakamoto continued to collaborate with other developers on the bitcoin software until mid-2010, making all modifications to the source code himself. He then handed over control of the source code repository and network alert key to Gavin Andresen,[20] transferred several related domains to various prominent members of the bitcoin community, and stopped his recognized involvement in the project.

I’m always sensitive to concerns about people’s hesitation getting into the space.  It’s a lot to take in.  But we’ve seen the advent of institutional investors coming into the space in the last 12 months.  The concern you have seems to be one that should dissipate over time and when you think about what Satoshi hasn’t realized by selling.
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thanks ...

you should dissipate. 

 
hooter311 said:
You realize bitcoin is currently a 900+ billion dollar asset right now?  Microstrategy is the largest public holder outside of the chinese and us government. And they are sitting on less than 100k btc.
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Yeah...more of a hypothetical concern.  Trust me, I’m pretty much all 50/50 in now and growing.

 
Binky The Doormat said:
“I think people who are professional traders that are going to trade cryptocurrencies, it’s just disgusting,” Munger added at the time. “It’s like someone else is trading turds and you decide I can’t be left out.”   :lmao:
Click to expand...
It's funny that a lot of "professional" money managers are very negative or disgusted about crypto. We've seen it a little bit in this thread and the stock thread. I get them disagreeing with it and wanting to warn people or spread their opinion. But there is a reasonable, logical way to do that and reasonable concerns with crypto. Instead, there is an almost palatable anger, almost like when you say something to a person that is close to the truth and they lash out at you. 

Odd. 

 
ConstruxBoy said:
It's funny that a lot of "professional" money managers are very negative or disgusted about crypto. We've seen it a little bit in this thread and the stock thread. I get them disagreeing with it and wanting to warn people or spread their opinion. But there is a reasonable, logical way to do that and reasonable concerns with crypto. Instead, there is an almost palatable anger, almost like when you say something to a person that is close to the truth and they lash out at you. 

Odd. 
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Edited because I can't delete

 
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ConstruxBoy said:
Now I'm curious for your opinion. 
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I agree with your observations, but also find that if you take a skeptical view of Bitcoin, it feels a lot like trying to convince a family member to leave a cult.

note:  I’m not saying Bitcoin is a cult

 
Alex P Keaton said:
I agree with your observations, but also find that if you take a skeptical view of Bitcoin, it feels a lot like trying to convince a family member to leave a cult.

note:  I’m not saying Bitcoin is a cult
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That can be a fair observation. There are certainly some adamant cheerleaders. I'm mostly surprised that people who understand "investing" and have a place in their portfolio for a speculative hedge investment (and certainly not everyone has that bucket) wouldn't put some of it in crypto. Let's say you have a $1 million in your portfolio and you allocation 10% of that to speculative stocks. So right now you're spending that $10,000 on SPACs and Pink Sheet Biotechs that Chet from the internet recommended. Doesn't it make sense to put $2-3k of that money into crypto related investments? Even if you're not sure it is anything more than a ponzi scheme? Not as a FOMO, but as a hedge that you are wrong? Or are you so certain that your assessment of this brand new asset class is completely correct?

Maybe it's just me.

 
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TheDirtyWord said:
Perhaps I can get you to see a different POV related to your concern.  There have been 3 bull market in BTC’s history; 2013, 2017 and the one we’re in now.  Satoshi could have sold at the 2013/2017/2021 market peaks when the value of his/her BTC was:

2013: $1.15B
2017: $21.8B
2021: $63.8B

...the stones it would take to hodl thru those 2013/2017 market peaks...and even now when hodling has become mainstream would seem unrealistic when you consider human behavior.  To not sell a single one?  After the 2017 bull market, a year later, Satoshi’s BTC stack decreased to a value of $3.8B.  Not one moved.  Consider also that BTC launched in 2009, so for years, it was worth bupkus.

This is also copied directly from his wiki page...

Nakamoto continued to collaborate with other developers on the bitcoin software until mid-2010, making all modifications to the source code himself. He then handed over control of the source code repository and network alert key to Gavin Andresen,[20] transferred several related domains to various prominent members of the bitcoin community, and stopped his recognized involvement in the project.

I’m always sensitive to concerns about people’s hesitation getting into the space.  It’s a lot to take in.  But we’ve seen the advent of institutional investors coming into the space in the last 12 months.  The concern you have seems to be one that should dissipate over time and when you think about what Satoshi hasn’t realized by selling.
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Thanks for the response. I enjoy reading your posts about this and have learned a lot. I only have $4k in BTC, but this issue has me hesitate considering it an investment vs. a gamble. For me personally, the unknown variable of who controls $30b of BTC and not knowing their intentions isn't a positive. I get that they could of sold at many points and didn't, so it could be benign and a non-issue. The anonymous factor is tough to get past too. It could be that these are honest, good people holding it or it could be some blackhats endgame to crater it all after the value gets to a certain level or time period. Dunno. Either way, people have to trust the system they created for it to work. The creator(s) hoarding that many coins makes them the central government of this system, and gives them a ton of power to keep it going or crashing it all down.

 
ConstruxBoy said:
That can be a fair observation. There are certainly some adamant cheerleaders. I'm mostly surprised that people who understand "investing" and have a place in their portfolio for a speculative hedge investment (and certainly not everyone has that bucket) wouldn't put some of it in crypto. Let's say you have a $1 million in your portfolio and you allocation 10% of that to speculative stocks. So right now you're spending that $10,000 on SPACs and Pink Sheet Biotechs that Chet from the internet recommended. Doesn't it make sense to put $2-3k of that money into crypto related investments? Even if you're not sure it is anything more than a ponzi scheme? Not as a FOMO, but as a hedge that you are wrong? Or are you so certain that your assessment of this brand new asset class is completely correct?

Maybe it's just me.
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That all seems completely fair.  I don’t put money into any of those things - so for me it’s a simple choice (right now).  But in the situation you describe, it is a very fair question.

Thanks for taking the time to offer a thoughtful reply!

 
ConstruxBoy said:
Of course. Certainly respect your opinions on the matter. 
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My opinions are very much uninformed!  Which is why I'm asking this group.   Truly, thank you.

Unrelated aside, I have a few co-workers who are....not terribly smart.....getting really into day trading.   One of them is very excited about Bitcoin.  When I asked him about the "mining" of Bitcoin....it became clear that he imagines someone physically mining for an actual precious metal, like gold mining.  It was disturbing.   (this was the same young co-worker who was buying Game Stop because he wanted to stick it to the fat cats on Wall St......)

I realize most people in crypto currencies aren't like my co-worker.  It just reminds me an awful lot of tech stocks in 1999.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
My opinions are very much uninformed!  Which is why I'm asking this group.   Truly, thank you.

Unrelated aside, I have a few co-workers who are....not terribly smart.....getting really into day trading.   One of them is very excited about Bitcoin.  When I asked him about the "mining" of Bitcoin....it became clear that he imagines someone physically mining for an actual precious metal, like gold mining.  It was disturbing.   (this was the same young co-worker who was buying Game Stop because he wanted to stick it to the fat cats on Wall St......)

I realize most people in crypto currencies aren't like my co-worker.  It just reminds me an awful lot of tech stocks in 1999.
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Yeah, it's funny. I was trying to explain it to my wife at lunch today and she's very smart and it was still a little iffy on whether she got it. Certainly a tough process to imagine and I can't explain all the technical details, although I do ok. 

As I said, I understand it well enough to feel safe investing but not well enough to explain to other people in great technical detail. 
Of course, that's true of a number of tech and biotech stocks I own, so...

 
ConstruxBoy said:
It's funny that a lot of "professional" money managers are very negative or disgusted about crypto. We've seen it a little bit in this thread and the stock thread. I get them disagreeing with it and wanting to warn people or spread their opinion. But there is a reasonable, logical way to do that and reasonable concerns with crypto. Instead, there is an almost palatable anger, almost like when you say something to a person that is close to the truth and they lash out at you. 

Odd. 
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I think one of the reasons may be because of their ability to access it for their clients.  I know my Raymond James broker was prohibited from even putting GBTC in his clients portfolios as recently as October.  So an investment class where access is sketchy at best but likely taking dollars away from vehicles they do have at their disposal...it’s not unexpected they’d have a jaded view.

 
If I worked money professionally and talked smack about  BTC for 10 years and started doing the Math and realized a 10k investment would mean I’d be retired living on the ocean I’d be salty too

 
Decided to add some $ to my BlockFi account this weekend to take advantage of the dip. Of course, by the time it clears, and I can buy, btc will probably be back into the mid 50's.

 
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