Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
***Chicago Bears Thread*** Poles is playing 5D chess! (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter flapgreen
- Start date
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Yeah it is poker 101. If they're making an offer on your player(s) then they are interested.
3nOut
Footballguy
If you draft a QB in the top five picks, you should be starting them. With the Bears already naming Andy Dalton as their starter, I don't see them moving up and giving up assets for someone who is going to sit on the bench. Especially if Pace and Nagy are on the hot seat.
We already invested in a QB this year and hopefully Dalton is an upgrade, albeit a small one. My question is, are any of these quarterbacks worth the assets to move up in the draft after making this move? Are they that much better than anyone we can draft next year?
The Tick
Footballguy
Mike Glennon says hi
...Not that I want Pace making a big trade up, but dumping money into a FA QB and naming him the starter hasn't stopped them from a high round QB before. Wonder if they'll make Dalton watch it at the big Bears draft party also!
3nOut
Footballguy
Chris Simms released his QB rankings for this year's class:
1. Zach Wilson, BYU
2. Trevor Lawrence, Clemson
3. Mac Jones, Alabama
4. Kellen Mond, Texas A&M
5. Justin Fields, Ohio State
6. Trey Lance, North Dakota State
Simms has been pretty spot on in his analysis of QBs over the past several years. He surprisingly ranked Kellen Mond 4th above both Fields and Lance, saying that although he can be a little robotic, his mechanics are very solid. He only lost one game last year and that was to Alabama. Also interesting is that Trask is not even ranked in the top 6.
I think because of all of the hype for QBs this year - Lawrence, Wilson, Jones, Fields, and Lance will all go in the first round before the Bears pick. That said, I think the Bears should go OL or WR in the first and maybe Mond in the second who can sit behind Dalton for a year or take over mid-season if Dalton struggles.
1. Zach Wilson, BYU
2. Trevor Lawrence, Clemson
3. Mac Jones, Alabama
4. Kellen Mond, Texas A&M
5. Justin Fields, Ohio State
6. Trey Lance, North Dakota State
Simms has been pretty spot on in his analysis of QBs over the past several years. He surprisingly ranked Kellen Mond 4th above both Fields and Lance, saying that although he can be a little robotic, his mechanics are very solid. He only lost one game last year and that was to Alabama. Also interesting is that Trask is not even ranked in the top 6.
I think because of all of the hype for QBs this year - Lawrence, Wilson, Jones, Fields, and Lance will all go in the first round before the Bears pick. That said, I think the Bears should go OL or WR in the first and maybe Mond in the second who can sit behind Dalton for a year or take over mid-season if Dalton struggles.
Mcshay has fields falling to 11 - if that’s the case I would like them to trade up for fields. It’s in the area of a first and a second to move up to 10 or so.
his speed brings a great element to his pro game and would generate huge excitement over the last half of 2021
plus it's enough to save pace’s job for another year
the other option I see is giving a 2 for darnold who could win a few games in the second half and give optimism - and also save pace’s job
his speed brings a great element to his pro game and would generate huge excitement over the last half of 2021
plus it's enough to save pace’s job for another year
the other option I see is giving a 2 for darnold who could win a few games in the second half and give optimism - and also save pace’s job
3nOut
Footballguy
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
This is NFL GM gamesmanship. No way in the world Fields falls past 10. He has all the physical tools to be exceptional and ONE GUY (Orlavsky) is saying that Field's work ethic is suspect.The Dude said:
If Fields does fall that far, I would hope Pace does every thing in his power to move up and grab him...but don't count on either happening.
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
I've been getting a ridicule for expressing this view recently. Dalton isn't going to carry a team to a championship by himself but his teams won 10 games in a tough AFCN four times. Assuming that Wilson or Watson trades are impossible, which it looks like they are, I'm not sure what better options Pace had. I think I'd prefer Dalton to Fitzpatrick, Mariota or Alex Smith. Should they have traded for Carson Wentz?osubuckeyeman said:
I know some people are saying punt the season and draft someone next year but I don't think Pace and Nagy have that luxury. They need to win now to keep their jobs and Dalton is probably the best option available for that.
For me, this is the best draft the Bears could hope for. If they go OT, QB, CB, Im happy.
Is Mond a second round pick? In this draft, I suppose he is. I like the quick release, for me thats a 'must have' in the current NFL. I'd MUCH rather overpay in the 2nd than trade up in the first for a boatload of picks on a prospect that may not pan out either. Mond makes a lot of sense, he's sort of the aniti-Mitch Trubiski. Everything he is is on tape, you know what youre getting and just have to decide if you can develop him from there.
That being said, if there is some great value at another position of need (which is practically all of them) that slips into the 2nd with all the QB madness, I have no problem with that either and see what kind of QB project is available later.
The bottom line is this team cant be fixed in this draft, but Pace can plug some gaping holes (which he has created). If they get the O-line strengthed and then go seriously shopping for a QB next year, I think they can be a serious contender again much sooner than you would think.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Pace could've gotten Dalton last year for 3 million and no picks, but decided to give up a 4th rounder for Foles and give him 20 million, and then turn right around and give Dalton 10 million this year and talk about him like he's the best thing out there all of a sudden. Pace is a clueless idiot that has no business being near a football team.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
I just keep going back to every prime time game that Dalton ever played in. It's not a coaching problem. He's just bad under pressure, similar to Trubisky. He doesn't process information faster under pressure. On paper, he's not an upgrade over Trubisky or Foles at all. But maybe Nagy can find some magic for him. I do think Nagy is a good coach.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
I would argue that Dalton wasn't necessarily the best option if they already had Trubisky and Foles, Dalton represents the same option at best in that group of below average options.
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
They didn't have Trubisky though right? He was a FA and they clearly didn't want to resign him. You do have a point with Foles but they seem to think Dalton is an upgrade. The consensus seems to be that Nagy/Pace needed to do something at QB to keep their jobs and I don't think running back Trubisky/Foles was a real option.TwinTurbo said:
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Sure my point was they could have simply kept Trubisky. The Bears signed Dalton for 4x what the Bills ended up paying Trubisky. $10M total cap hit vs. $2.5M. It just makes no sense to pay more for a guy that does not represent a QB1 upgrade for any team in the NFL. I know they would have paid more if Trubisky was the presumed starter instead of a QB2, but it would have still been far less than $10M.
Last edited by a moderator:
flapgreen
Footballguy
That's just not a realistic way of looking at it. Everyone, including Trubisky, knew the Bears were finished with him. I don't think bringing him back anyway, just because he was cheaper, is a thing teams do after this many years and chances given to a guy.
The Tick
Footballguy
If they were willing to let Bill Lazor run an offense catering to Trubisky's strengths as they tried to do for a while last year, I think Trubisky would have more wins then either of the QB's on our roster right now (or at least the same). Though I'm not sure Trubisky would have signed for much cheaper then Dalton though in a case like that. Regardless, the team made things very clear before, and doubled down on it recently that is not what they want to do. They want to pull back out the Nagy offense and try to run that again, and in that case, Mitch 100% wasn't an option, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to be here anymore. Their only options were Foles or bring someone in. I'm sure they didn't think they could sell Foles to ownership, so they had to pump up Dalton as the real right answer that will fix it this time, (just forget the fact we didn't go for him last year)...
flapgreen
Footballguy
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
Yeah there is no way Trubisky signs that contract with the Bears. There's no way the Bears offer it.
flapgreen
Footballguy
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
MItch's 5th year option was for $24.8 million. He was never gonna sign once the Bears decided not to pick up that option.
flapgreen
Footballguy
That's a pretty fair prediction. Team sucks. Just tank the season and get new GM, qb, and hc
FairWarning
Footballguy
Just a couple of weeks ago, he was a Day three guy - https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/23/bears-nfl-draft-davis-mills-stanford/
I would really have a problem taking Fields if he's dropping. I hate trying to catch the falling knive in the first round.
Last edited by a moderator:
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
If Fields falls out of the top 4, then it is reasonable to trade up to 8 with Carolina to take him. The cost to trade up there according to the charts is #20, #52 and a 2021 3rd. That's a no brainer, IMO.FairWarning said:
Kiper's a moron. He loves being the contrarian and thats why he has his job. Maybe this unprecedented QB run is a smokescreen but I dont think so. If nothing else these things tend to take on lives of their own- team start trading up because they believe they have to. Which btw sounds like a very Pace thing to do.The Dude said:
The problem is, in that scenario you can throw the book out the window. You might have 8 teams trying to move up and throwing picks at Carolina like candy. To go from 20 to 8 in this draft is going to be Two 1st, just to start with. Because you've got 5 QBs that are perceived as franchises (which is ridiculous but apparently believed) and that means you have 3-4 players falling out of the top 10 at other positions that are blue chip talent. If the Bears could move up to 8 for a 2nd and a 3rd I would do it right now, today, in a heartbeat- not to draft a QB, but to draft an ELITE tackle or WR.
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
Unfortunately, I see them mortgaging the future to just grab whichever of the top 5 QBs drops just so they can possibly keep their jobs for one more season. 'We have a new qb, trust the process, give it time '. Blah, blah, blah...
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
Ugh, this sucks about Steve McMichael
ALS is a terrible disease. Lost and uncle to it and my old boss . Terrible way to go.
ALS is a terrible disease. Lost and uncle to it and my old boss . Terrible way to go.
I don't know enough to answer your question but i did see this:
6. Kellen Mond
Texas A&M · Round 2-3
Mond shattered Aggies records in career passing yards (9,661), passing touchdowns (71), completions (801) and attempts (1,358) in 47 career games (44 starts), then helped his cause with a strong Senior Bowl performance that earned him MVP honors. Multiple sources raised the long-shot possibility of Mond (6-2 5/8, 211) being a surprise first-round pick. But scouts and coaches struggle to get over how stiff Mond looks on tape and in person -- a common thread in Jimbo Fisher-trained QBs, such as Jameis Winston and Christian Ponder. As an AFC executive put it on Mond: "Even though he's fast (4.61 40) and has a good arm, he's like a g--d--- robot." One coordinator compared Mond to another onetime Fisher QB, EJ Manuel. "He's got that Jimbo thing about him," an AFC quarterbacks coach said of Mond. "Jimbo teaches this very stiff elbows in the drop. He kind of looks robotic, and he really shouldn't be a robotic type of guy."
Mond transferred to IMG Academy after his junior year of high school and is almost overly polished in interviews. He's known as a good note-taker and has a high football IQ. "He's a reserved, quiet dude, but really, really smart," an NFC quarterbacks coach said of Mond. "The thing I get stuck on with him was, there wasn't anything I could say was outstanding about him physically. It's not elite arm strength, it's not consistent down-the-field accuracy. I thought he was going to be more athletic than he is on tape. He's a little stiff." Mond's more slight build, particularly in the lower body, also raises questions, though he's been durable throughout his college career, even while getting sacked 34 times in 2018.
"Jimbo asks a lot of quarterbacks to operate that system, and he's been able to do it even though he looks like a wideout," an AFC scout said. "I don't know if he's necessarily the big, vocal leader presence. We were walking around the Senior Bowl, he had his headphones on, staying in his own world. But on the field, I think the guy's got some moxie about him. And he knows the game."
7 Kyle Trask
Florida · Round 2-3
A second-team All-America pick and Heisman Trophy finalist, Trask set school records with 43 touchdown passes (most in FBS) and 4,283 yards last season for the Gators, whom he led to 16 wins in 22 starts over the past two seasons after taking over the starting job from an injured Feleipe Franks. He has NFL size (6-5 1/4, 236), huge hands (10 1/8 inches) and a savviness scouts appreciate. But Trask is an old-school pocket passer in a league that increasingly favors QBs who can extend plays. "I think he's tough, he's competitive, he was really productive in obviously the toughest division in all of college football," an NFC quarterbacks coach said. "But I would watch him sometimes -- the lower half is so heavy and slow. He looks hurt. He wears that big knee brace, which doesn't help. If you don't have a big running game and you don't have a good offensive line, this dude's going to get killed."
In fairness, Trask was hurt toward the end of last season -- he played through a severe left high ankle sprain and was in so much pain in the Cotton Bowl against Oklahoma he had to go to the bench early in the second half. Trask missed the Senior Bowl and didn't even resume jogging until early March, weeks before his pro day, where he ran a 5.07 40, and is moving better since. The rest of Trask's medical report is long -- surgery for a torn meniscus in the spring of 2017, a broken bone in each foot that required a screw in 2017 and 2018, respectively, and minor surgery on his left (non-throwing) elbow to remove a bone chip -- but nothing overly concerning to teams.
He throws with good touch and timing, but scouts rate his overall arm talent as good, not great. "Trask is just an absolute statue back there. And I'm not sure he's got the arm talent to match it," an AFC coordinator said. "Normally if you've got a guy that's not very mobile, not very swift on his feet, he's gotta make up for it with a Howitzer." Trask does have fans; one scout ranked him fourth in this year's class, ahead of Mac Jones and Trey Lance. A team like the Buccaneers, who have Tom Brady at quarterback and Byron Leftwich as offensive coordinator, surely wouldn't be spooked by drafting a QB who has to play on-schedule from the pocket. And Trask has proven people wrong before -- he didn't start a game in high school while playing behind future Houston and Miami QB D'Eriq King, had only one FBS scholarship offer and sat for three years at Florida before getting his shot. In his first road start -- ever -- he threw for 310 yards and three touchdowns in a 42-28 loss to eventual national champion LSU in 2019. "Trask was catching steam there during the season when he was putting up the numbers," another AFC exec said. "I just think there's a clear step below, really across the board -- athleticism, arm strength. Even going back and studying him again, it's like, eh, maybe it's a little better than I thought, but I think maybe there's just a ceiling on the guy."
'You did a heck of a job': Trask impresses Mariucci on the whiteboard test
8 Davis Mills
Stanford · Round 2-3
Mills started just 11 games in four years at Stanford, where he completed 65.5 percent of his passes for 3,468 yards with 18 touchdowns and eight interceptions. But a solid pro day in the rain last month showed off Mills' upside -- if he can stay healthy. "It's effortless when the ball came out. Really good mechanics. He really grew on me," an NFC quarterbacks coach said. "If you came back to me in two years and said that guy is a middle-of-the-pack starter in the NFL, I'm not going to be shocked. And if you tell me he's a backup or he didn't make it, I wouldn't be shocked. He's got something." Said an AFC coordinator: "I think he can make all the throws, shows you arm talent to make every throw. Only thing that scares you there is obviously the injuries."
One of the nation's top recruits in high school, Mills suffered a torn ACL before his senior year in 2016, and sources say he has had four total surgeries on his left knee, the last in 2018: the original ACL reconstruction, a revision (redo) on the ACL, a meniscus repair and a procedure to remove a suture. He finally got his chance with the Cardinal in 2019 and, after missing several games with a left calf strain, returned to finish strong, passing for a school-record 504 yards against Washington State. He also had some bad luck, missing last season's opener after a false positive test for COVID-19, and played through a left hip strain.
"His hype's a little bit out of control," an NFC scout said. "He's not mobile. He's not durable. His arm's OK. Kevin Hogan almost had more than he has in terms of just mobility and making plays. He came in beat up. He already doesn't run well. His escape ability under pressure, clutch playmaking -- all that stuff is really, really suspect." Mills did flash some athletic ability at his pro day, running a 4.81 40 and posting a 6.95 three-cone drill at 6-3 3/4, 217 pounds that was the best among draftable QBs in this class. "He is off the charts in terms of intelligence," an AFC quarterbacks coach said. "He's only played 11 games. Where does he fit? I don't know. But if the physical catches up, he's got a chance."
https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-draft-pro-execs-scouts-coaches-break-down-the-qb-class
Depending on Washington, NE and Denver, the Bears may have to consider moving up higher than any or all of these teams to grab Lance or Fields (assuming Jones is gone at #3). That means, at a minimum, they would need to get to at least #8 to stay ahead of Denver, but they can still be leap-frogged.
Going to be an interesting draft night.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
The ideal situation (barring one of the top 5 falling to 20), is for the Bears to trade down from 20 into the upper second. Grab an OT with the higher second round pick and Mond with 52. Use the extra picks ( likely a 3rd and 4th) from the trade down to stack up on WR, CB, and OL talent. If Mond is a bust, Dalton will still be serviceable and there will be opportunity next season to draft another QB.
