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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter whoknew
- Start date
General Malaise
Footballguy
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
ren hoek
Footballguy
This is why I said, “if I recall correctly,” which obviously I didn’t. I was typing up a quick reply to sf and couldn’t recall if Fusion was involved with GOP or not. I honestly didn’t think they were.
The important detail about the DNC paying for the piss dossier and then lying about it is what I was getting at.
ren hoek
Footballguy
You might want to trace back to Saints’ post and read it again. We were talking about someone else.
I am not entirely clear on who lied about what. But lets take it at face value and accept that all Dems lied about paying for the Dossier. Lets even assume that the GOP was never involved - and this was entirely paid for by the Dems.
So what?
The source of the Dossier - Christopher Steele had credibility within the FBI, such that the allegations gave rise to an investigation. As you recall, this was a secret investigation. Unlike the Hillary E-mail investigation - this was kept from the public for the duration of the campaign. So, even if Steele fabricated the entire dossier - what was the downside to Trump here?
I am not aware of anything in the Dossier that has been proven false (i think there was a typo or 2, but nothing of substance). The FBI did with the Dossier what they were supposed to do when they get credible information: they opened an investigation to see if they could independently verify the claims. What else do you think the FBI should have done?
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
HaHa! Can't wait to hear more about how God put all of sensitive information in his brain.
Dedfin
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Supposedly - per {cough, hack} InfoWars, which is apparently self-reporting to carve its own framing - WaPo is going to come out with a report that InfoWars hired Corsi as DC bureau chief ( <_< ) as a hushmoney payoff to get him to stay on board with Stone. And his stepson was subpoenaed before the grand jury and his stepson's appearance just got postponed for some reason. So the guy has a busy dance card.
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Dickies
Footballguy
This gets misunderstood a lot.
1. The Republicans never paid for any portion of the research that went into the dossier. A conservative publication (the Washington Free Beacon) did pay for opposition research on Trump. They hired Fusion GPS to do the research. They kept paying Fusion GPS until it was clear that Trump was going to win the nomination. At that point, the Democrats (DNC and Clinton campaign, by way of Marc Elias at Perkins Coie) took over funding that opposition research. That was in April 2016. Fusion GPS hired Christopher Steele's firm in June 2016, after the Free Beacon was no longer involved. So the dossier itself, as opposed to the oppo research previously done by Fusion GPS, was funded exclusively by Democrats from the beginning.
2. I don't see any evidence that the Dems lied about funding the dossier. Maggie Haberman's tweet says that the Democrats lied about funding the research that went into the dossier, but the WaPo story she links to makes no such claim. Rather, it quotes some people from the Clinton campaign saying that they were unaware that the campaign had funded the dossier. This is consistent with other stuff I've read. Despite paying for the oppo research, people in the Clinton campaign found out about the dossier when Buzzfeed published it in January 2017. Steele took his reports to the American authorities, not to the Clinton campaign. This is why it didn't leak until after the election.
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Brony
Footballguy
cosjobs
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
BuzzFeed News @BuzzFeedNews 17m17 minutes ago
UPDATE: A spokesperson for the special counsel is disputing BuzzFeed News’ report. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/trump-russia-cohen-moscow-tower-mueller-investigation?bftwnews&utm_term=4ldqpgc#4ldqpgc …
https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedNews/status/1086419880025284608
UPDATE: A spokesperson for the special counsel is disputing BuzzFeed News’ report. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/trump-russia-cohen-moscow-tower-mueller-investigation?bftwnews&utm_term=4ldqpgc#4ldqpgc …
https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedNews/status/1086419880025284608
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squistion
Footballguy
Shimon Prokupecz @ShimonPro 5m5 minutes ago
We cannot underestimate the statement disputing Buzzfeed’s story from the special counsel. I’m sure it pained them to do this. I’m sure this went through many levels at the DOJ and FBI. They don’t talk. This is massive.
squistion
Footballguy
Daniel Dale @ddale8 6m6 minutes ago
Mueller’s team almost never comments on anything, but BuzzFeed reports that it is calling BuzzFeed’s Cohen story “not accurate.”
It‘s possible to parse the Mueller team’s wording here, but they’re clearly saying at least some of the story is wrong. That should get major attention, especially given how very rare it is that they comment on anything.
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1086423990124584960
Mueller’s team almost never comments on anything, but BuzzFeed reports that it is calling BuzzFeed’s Cohen story “not accurate.”
It‘s possible to parse the Mueller team’s wording here, but they’re clearly saying at least some of the story is wrong. That should get major attention, especially given how very rare it is that they comment on anything.
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1086423990124584960
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Okay, I was going to do that anyway.
timschochet
Footballguy
Well damn. Expect all the Trumpers to gloat. I wonder what they got wrong or if the whole thing is wrong.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
You were right to be skeptical. Kudos. I try to do the same, though not to the extent Shader and Ren Hoek do.
PS. Did you see the Laker game last night? I think that was their best game of the season to date (that I've seen).
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timschochet
Footballguy
I’m guessing the evidence is there but it’s murky. There’s no direct evidence Trump instructed him to lie, somebody else discussed it, etc.
Not enough.
Not enough.
timschochet
Footballguy
Only glimpses. Busy with my daughters’ dancing.
I don’t like being right about this, because frankly there’s no question in my mind that Trump has ordered people to lie. I know it, you know it, most of his supporters know it. But proving it...that’s different.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t quite understand though what would motivate the Mueller people to speak out this time. What about all of the other inaccurate stories, like the ones spread by Trump and his allies? I don’t get it.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I figure if it happened, it'll get proved eventually. It's more important that the conclusions arrived at are done so with the greatest amount of corroboration possible, whatever those conclusions are, rather than coming to a particular conclusion. Give it all the time needed to make things as clear and well supported as possible. It is painful watching Trump damage the world in the meantime, but that's still not justification for ending things early or steering these investigations towards a desired conclusion.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I think that particular story has a high likelihood of leading to some impeachment flavored actions. I can see them not wanting to have that set in motion with things half baked (or if what they know is completely contrary to that story).
timschochet
Footballguy
And now I’m reading that when Cohen testifies next month (if he actually does) he won’t answer any questions regarding this issue at the request of Mueller.
This is very frustrating. Are we ever going to find out what happened here? If Trump committed a crime let’s find out. If he didn’t commit a crime, let’s exonerate him and move on.
This is very frustrating. Are we ever going to find out what happened here? If Trump committed a crime let’s find out. If he didn’t commit a crime, let’s exonerate him and move on.
timschochet
Footballguy
As I wrote in another thread (and I feel almost foolish now that I did) the journalist who wrote this story won the Pulitzer Prize. I would have thought he would have properly vetted this stuff. Oh well.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
the moops
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
Ken Dilanian @KenDilanianNBC 12m12 minutes ago
To be clear:
Mueller is not disputing that Cohen says Trump told him to lie. He’s disputing the line about corroborating evidence taken from Trump Org emails, texts, etc. Still a huge deal. But not a total refutation. In fact, Cohen’s 11/30 memo says Trump directed him to lie.
To be clear:
Mueller is not disputing that Cohen says Trump told him to lie. He’s disputing the line about corroborating evidence taken from Trump Org emails, texts, etc. Still a huge deal. But not a total refutation. In fact, Cohen’s 11/30 memo says Trump directed him to lie.
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I don't think its nefarious - though one of the authors has been in trouble in the past for dubious (i.e. wrong) reporting.
I think its more a situation where people read too much into what they see/hear. I think this is Mensch's biggest fault also - people see raw data without knowing how to interpret it.
I also read a story somewhere today - sorry no links - that makes this still a very dangerous situation for Trump - and maybe why the Special Counsel does not want to get side-tracked on this issue.
The gist of the story was that Cohen continued pursuit of the Trump Tower on Trump's behalf - is the Russian's hook into Trump. Trump was apparently willing to use sanctioned banks for financing, and he was willing to deal directly with Putin to make it happen.
Who knows?
All we can do is wait for this to unfold - one way or the other.
The gist of the story was that Cohen continued pursuit of the Trump Tower on Trump's behalf - is the Russian's hook into Trump. Trump was apparently willing to use sanctioned banks for financing, and he was willing to deal directly with Putin to make it happen.
Who knows?
All we can do is wait for this to unfold - one way or the other.
Ben SmithVerified account @BuzzFeedBen
In response to the statement tonight from the Special Counsel's spokesman: We stand by our reporting and the sources who informed it, and we urge the Special Counsel to make clear what he's disputing.
I very much doubt that the Special Counsel will comment further. I suspect this is down to interpretation of information and/or SC has more information that BuzzFeed's sources are not privy to.
(Or SC ran a sting to see who would leak bad info...)
In response to the statement tonight from the Special Counsel's spokesman: We stand by our reporting and the sources who informed it, and we urge the Special Counsel to make clear what he's disputing.
I very much doubt that the Special Counsel will comment further. I suspect this is down to interpretation of information and/or SC has more information that BuzzFeed's sources are not privy to.
(Or SC ran a sting to see who would leak bad info...)
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
jamny
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
1. Right. I thought incorrectly that Fusion didn't come in until Dems took over the oppo research. That the dossier was paid for by Democrats and lied about it was my point.
2. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5016865/A-YEAR-Clinton-lies-dirty-dossier-exposed.html Apparently it was Marc Elias who lied about commissioning the dossier. Clinton/DNC get to play dumb about where their money was going. I'm sure John McCain staffers knew about the dossier before the people who paid for it did.
