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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn


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10 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

I'm asking for your opinion as someone who has defended Trump every step of the way regardless of the evidence from the onset and that evidence later revealed to in fact prove that there were dozens of meetings and communications with the Russians, but okay.   

I defend the process not the person.  That’s was this country is about so what’s so hard to understand.  

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I actually don't.  And I've made my feelings on that clear for many, many months.  I don't believe there should be any requirement for investigators to like the people they're investigating.  I don't

The defense being put forth by Trump Levin Dershowitz and our own house Gary Johnson supporters is that a candidate can give unlimited funds to his own campaign.  Therefore Trump can pay off the women

My whole office is almost literally rolling on the floor laughing.  The managing partner of my firm just had to use an inhaler to breathe.

Just now, stlrams said:

I defend the process not the person.  That’s was this country is about so what’s so hard to understand.  

You seemed to be attacking the process earlier wrt discussions pertaining to the 25th amendment.

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56 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

It has been proven...he said it on TV.

Sno nuff the judge has ruled so we can all go home now.  Good night boys..

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1 minute ago, moleculo said:

You seemed to be attacking the process earlier wrt discussions pertaining to the 25th amendment.

Completely wrong.  I was discussing who was lying about conversations involving 25th amendment and impact of credibility.  

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2 minutes ago, stlrams said:

Completely wrong.  I was discussing who was lying about conversations involving 25th amendment and impact of credibility.  

Oh, ok.  I thought you were speaking of this as some sort of coup.

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18 minutes ago, stlrams said:

Sno nuff the judge has ruled so we can all go home now.  Good night boys..

I linked the video interview where Trump admitted it. Don't be a jerk just because your brainwashed mind won't allow you to reason or accept reality. 

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32 minutes ago, stlrams said:

Let’s wait for report.  I’m on record saying trump is a mess so if he goes it’s a win for the country.  Everyone is acting like I’m a trump fan and have a hard understanding I’m for due process the then convicting someone in a forum.  

The report we may never see? Or if we do could be redacted or a summary from the AG Trump appointed, which could be (likely?) based on his public comments? The info I linked pieces together a pretty compelling arguement based on court documents. Imagine what we may learn from an unredacted filing, or a full report. Granted, this has some holes and I am in agreement to let the process play out, as long as the process isn’t obstructed, which is already happening, but I still have faith in our system. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, stlrams said:

Let’s wait for report.  I’m on record saying trump is a mess so if he goes it’s a win for the country.  Everyone is acting like I’m a trump fan and have a hard understanding I’m for due process the then convicting someone in a forum.  

Public opinion doesn’t require due process. 

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1 hour ago, stlrams said:

Completely wrong.  I was discussing who was lying about conversations involving 25th amendment and impact of credibility.  

 

On 2/15/2019 at 8:34 PM, stlrams said:

It’s so hypocritical of the masses here that they crucify trump for allegedly rigging election but silence while dept of Justice attempts to overthrow a duly elected president.  Disgusting 

 

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56 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Heard someone on the radio today suggest that the only reason we won’t get the Mueller report this week is that Barr won’t accept it while Trump is out of the country

Afraid he might not come back if it’s bad news?

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42 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

Afraid he might not come back if it’s bad news?

No - just a departure from previous Trump trips where something has hit the news as soon as Trump is wheels up.  New policy (or old policy newly enforced) of DOJ going silent on presidential investigations while the president is out of the country. 

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17 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

No - just a departure from previous Trump trips where something has hit the news as soon as Trump is wheels up.  New policy (or old policy newly enforced) of DOJ going silent on presidential investigations while the president is out of the country. 

No worries, Cohen will have that covered.

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5 hours ago, moleculo said:

Oh, ok.  I thought you were speaking of this as some sort of coup.

 

It’s odd.  If there is someone in the executive branch that hasn’t considered the 25th amendment by now, I would question their mental faculties.

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13 hours ago, timschochet said:

I have a feeling that Cohen’s public testimony next week is going to change some attitudes about Trump’s wrongdoings. Not among Trump’s base; they’re a lost cause as far as these things go. And not among most progressives who are already quite willing to believe the worst (often without real evidence).

But among independents and thoughtful people who suspect that Trump is a schmuck but haven’t paid too much attention. I think what we’re going to learn next week is not that Trump is some kind of master criminal, but that he’s more of a small criminal, a guy who lacks any ethics whatsoever and is willing to do whatever he thinks he can get away with. We’re about to learn how slimy this man is. 

Well, if people are stupid enough to believe a proven liar with his back up against a wall maybe.  I believe most of those folks are squarely in the "Trump is guilty" crowd already.

Edited by Don't Noonan
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1 hour ago, Don't Noonan said:

Well, if people are stupid enough to believe a proven liar with his back up against a wall maybe.  I believe most of those folks are squarely in the "Trump is guilty" crowd already.

You know what I always find fascinating? The non-Trump supporting Trump apologists crowd would absolutely being using Cohen to defend Trumps position if he was still team Trump and towing the Trump line.  But now that he’s not he’s just a liar who’s word can’t be trusted.  Interesting how that happens.  

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12 hours ago, Sheriff Bart said:

I linked the video interview where Trump admitted it. Don't be a jerk just because your brainwashed mind won't allow you to reason or accept reality. 

So we are convicting a sitting president in this forum - right.  I’ve learned to not 100% accept what’s on the internet either in forums or content nor what the media tells us and hopefully you know why.  Again let see what hopefully are most of facts when mueller report comes out.  I was sarcastic as sno nuff always responds with absolutes like he is the final say in any and all arguments and is never wrong.  

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6 hours ago, Don't Noonan said:

Well, if people are stupid enough to believe a proven liar with his back up against a wall maybe.  I believe most of those folks are squarely in the "Trump is guilty" crowd already.

:shrug:

This is someone who has already learned the cost of lying to Congress - I'd like to think he does not go down that road again...

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11 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

 

 

I said that given the historical precedent set by jd and fbi discussing to invoke 25th amendment.  There been much debate that intent was for disable, death or inability to exercise powers.  Since ratification in 1967, it’s been used for presidents during surgeries, when Reagan was shot and when Nixon resigned.  None were generated from fbi or jd so it’s a type of coup imo.  It’s a slippery slope that once it happens.

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13 hours ago, stlrams said:

Completely wrong.  I was discussing who was lying about conversations involving 25th amendment and impact of credibility.  

Sure you did. Right here:

On 2/15/2019 at 9:34 PM, stlrams said:

It’s so hypocritical of the masses here that they crucify trump for allegedly rigging election but silence while dept of Justice attempts to overthrow a duly elected president.  Disgusting 

 

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13 hours ago, stlrams said:

Sno nuff the judge has ruled so we can all go home now.  Good night boys..

So we can’t judge things based on what he has done...but you have already judged it a coup and an attempt to overthrow a duly elected president?

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3 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

So we can’t judge things based on what he has done...but you have already judged it a coup and an attempt to overthrow a duly elected president?

I’ve view it to be a unprecedented use of the 25th amendment and yes it could be called a coup.   

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19 minutes ago, stlrams said:

I said that given the historical precedent set by jd and fbi discussing to invoke 25th amendment.  There been much debate that intent was for disable, death or inability to exercise powers.  Since ratification in 1967, it’s been used for presidents during surgeries, when Reagan was shot and when Nixon resigned.  None were generated from fbi or jd so it’s a type of coup imo.  It’s a slippery slope that once it happens.

Which should tell you the amount of information the FBI and DOJ had about Trump and how compromised he was.  Wake up. You're trying so desperately to spin this that you're overlooking the obvious.

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4 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Which should tell you the amount of information the FBI and DOJ had about Trump and how compromised he was.  Wake up. You're trying so desperately to spin this that you're overlooking the obvious.

Wake up.  This was not the intent of 25th amendment.  What if the military, fbi and or jd didn’t’t like how a president was running things then it’s ok to for them to have discussions, approach cabinet etc and to get the president out?  Like I said it’s a slippery slope and now you are empowering other parts of the govt.... 

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Just now, stlrams said:

Wake up.  This was not the intent of 25th amendment.  What if the military, fbi and or jd didn’t’t like how a president was running things then it’s ok to for the, to have discussions, approach cabinet etc to get the president out?  Like I said it’s a slippery slope and now you are empowering other parts of the govt.... 

Slippery slopes bother you now?  Where is your outrage about the national emergency? You think that's what that was put in place for? To try to get your way when you can't get it passed through Congress?

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19 minutes ago, stlrams said:

I said that given the historical precedent set by jd and fbi discussing to invoke 25th amendment.  There been much debate that intent was for disable, death or inability to exercise powers.  Since ratification in 1967, it’s been used for presidents during surgeries, when Reagan was shot and when Nixon resigned.  None were generated from fbi or jd so it’s a type of coup imo.  It’s a slippery slope that once it happens.

Debate, huh?

1. That sounds like it's not settled what the intent of the 25th means.  A strict reading won't find "disability or death".  I guess you are one of those guys who doesn't believe in strict readings of the Constitution and are ok with interpreting as suits you best?

2. Is it possible to debate something without discussing?  Is it possible that this very debate is what McCabe/Rosenstein discussed?

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8 hours ago, Don't Noonan said:

Well, if people are stupid enough to believe a proven liar with his back up against a wall maybe.  I believe most of those folks are squarely in the "Trump is guilty" crowd already.

Which proven liar are you referring to Cohen or Trump?  Amazingly enough there are millions of people that believe the proven liar Trump.

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9 minutes ago, lazyike said:

Which proven liar are you referring to Cohen or Trump?  Amazingly enough there are millions of people that believe the proven liar Trump.

Cohen's entire existence was to keep Trump out of trouble. Anyone who doesn't think his crimes are done to cover up, and in conjunction with, Trump is being purposely aloof.  

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1 hour ago, stlrams said:

I said that given the historical precedent set by jd and fbi discussing to invoke 25th amendment.  There been much debate that intent was for disable, death or inability to exercise powers.  Since ratification in 1967, it’s been used for presidents during surgeries, when Reagan was shot and when Nixon resigned.  None were generated from fbi or jd so it’s a type of coup imo.  It’s a slippery slope that once it happens.

Okay.  You just seemed to have forgotten you said it. 

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1 hour ago, JuniorNB said:

Slippery slopes bother you now?  Where is your outrage about the national emergency? You think that's what that was put in place for? To try to get your way when you can't get it passed through Congress?

Different subject.  

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58 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

So you are allowed to judge, but not the rest of us...got it.

I’m stating my views with material for discussion vs the absolutes that you always use..  Proven, absolutely false, etc... this is why joe challenged you but apparently you can’t change...  

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1 hour ago, moleculo said:

@stlrams - in this thread, we have been discussing the 25th amendment.  Are we participating in a coup right now?

It seems that way.  I go food shopping and come back to 8 different posters challenging me.

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41 minutes ago, Mr. Ham said:

Actions, not words, are what ultimately matter. If you view the world accordingly, you’ll stop being duped by conspiracy theories and have a better basis to analyze reality.

Conspiracy theories?.  It’s a matter of public record with McCabe on 60 minutes.. either it true or McCabe is lying.  What is it..

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Just now, stlrams said:

Conspiracy theories?.  It’s a matter of public record with McCabe on 60 minutes.. either it true or McCabe is lying.  What is it..

I'm guessing that the nuances of discussing the 25th amendment and what it means are lost on some folks. 

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7 minutes ago, stlrams said:

I’m stating my views with material for discussion vs the absolutes that you always use..  Proven, absolutely false, etc... this is why joe challenged you but apparently you can’t change...  

I don’t think the description you’re using in the first sentence is consistent with the statement of yours from the 15th I quoted. 

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1 hour ago, stlrams said:

Wake up.  This was not the intent of 25th amendment.  What if the military, fbi and or jd didn’t’t like how a president was running things then it’s ok to for them to have discussions, approach cabinet etc and to get the president out?  Like I said it’s a slippery slope and now you are empowering other parts of the govt.... 

The 25th would require that the VP and Congress agree with a majority of the cabinet that the President cannot discharge his duties. There’s a rather large number of people who would have to be involved, solely to make the VP the President.  

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