What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

2021 New York football Giants (4 Viewers)

Yenrub said:
This is you

So which one is it? 
Click to expand...


Yenrub said:
This is you

So which one is it? 
Click to expand...


It's not one or the other ... Since you are being a #### and cant figure this out let me clarify ... It's risk reward 

The Cleveland and Jets games were useless preseason games in which neither team played most of their starters . Risk of Injury HIGH...Reward LOW 

Patriots and Giants are practicing together this week and both have agreed that they are going to treat Sunday almost as if it it a regular season game in order to be prepared for the season. Same HIGH risk but much higher reward 

10 Preseason games against 2nd and 3rd string players would not benift the same as 1 Game agaunst the PATs starters and would increase the injury risk 10 fold

 
Any predictions as we get close to football that counts? The "I'm not real excited about this team" fan says 5 wins. The "Maybe I'm wrong just a little bit" fan says 7 wins. On the bright side,the "We have Da Bears #1 pick next year" fan has them at 5 wins also. Opinions? Predictions?

 
Rubi said:
Any predictions as we get close to football that counts? The "I'm not real excited about this team" fan says 5 wins. The "Maybe I'm wrong just a little bit" fan says 7 wins. On the bright side,the "We have Da Bears #1 pick next year" fan has them at 5 wins also. Opinions? Predictions?
Click to expand...
It really all comes down to the Oline and obviously health  ... 

Worst case ... Oline is a complete disaster, Saquan or Jones get injured  - 3 wins 

Best Case ... Oline gels and the team remains relatively healthy - 10 wins

Likely Case ... some combination of best and worst case  7-8 wins    

 
TE Kyle Rudolph activated from PUP list ... This is big news 

https://www.bigblueview.com/2021/8/25/22641007/2021-ny-giants-roster-moves-te-kyle-rudolph-activated-from-pup-list-news

Barkley did not travel with the team to NE to attend to personal matters ... They said it will not set him back but overall I am not getting a real positive vibe regarding Barkley ... nothing real bad but nothing real postive either

https://nypost.com/2021/08/25/saquon-barkley-away-from-giants-for-joint-practice-with-patriots/

 
Last edited by a moderator:
monk said:
Wow that was unexpected ...

Ok Trade Proposal ... Daniel Jones for Drew Lock, Quinn Meinerz, and the Broncos #1 pick next season
Click to expand...
I know you're mostly joking, but I'm curious what kind of draft pick return Jones is worth.  I don't think he's worth a 1st at this point but considering Darnold was worth a 2nd I would think Jones is about there.  Darnold has more physical talent than Jones, though, so maybe a 3rd is more realistic.  As far as Lock, if he can't beat a journeyman like Bridgewater for the starting job, I don't want him... unless the team is trying to get a top 5 pick next year to get the next long-term QB.

 
A little good news from Art Stapleton - The offensive line continues to gel

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nfl/giants/2021/08/25/ny-giants-vs-patriots-joint-practices-saquon-barkley-daniel-jones-joe-judge-bill-belichick/5583451001/

The Giants' first-team line showed promise against the Browns, who were without Myles Garrett and Jadaveon Clowney. Andrew Thomas has been solid at left tackle all summer, and he had another good performance against the Patriots, validating that performance. Will Hernandez has also looked good at right guard, and Matt Peart played his college ball in New England at UConn, so it's possible he saw some familiar faces, as fans were in attendance for the sessions.

By my count, Jones would have been sacked once against the Patriots, and when the pocket wasn't clean, the result was not an avalanche. Actually, Jones had time to scramble out of there and gain some yardage on several plays before they were blown dead.
Click to expand...

 
More from Art (same article as above) - Picking on Darnay Holmes 

The secondary has received a lot of bouquets from fans and media, and rightfully so, given the talent assembled. A healthy Jackson opposite James Bradberry is certainly intriguing; it's why the Giants gave the former the deal they did.

The safeties are potentially the heart and soul of Patrick Graham's defense with Logan Ryan, Jabrill Peppers and Xavier McKinney serving as moveable chess pieces.

The weakness of this defense to this point - and yes, Graham will cover some of that up when he starts game-planning for opponents - is in the slot. Holmes did not allow a touchdown in single coverage last season, and he did some promising things as a rookie. But he also gave up a lot of yardage, growing pains if you will, and that leads to holding penalties. Another one kept a Patriots' series alive Wednesday.

There's a reason the Giants drafted Aaron Robinson in the third round, but he remains on the physically unable to perform list (PUP) and could stay there to start the season if he is not ready in his recovery from offseason core muscle surgery.

The Giants aren't going to give up on Holmes, but they need to be better in that spot in order to force teams to play to the secondary's strength, not thrive away from it.
Click to expand...

 
RC94 said:
I know you're mostly joking, but I'm curious what kind of draft pick return Jones is worth.  I don't think he's worth a 1st at this point but considering Darnold was worth a 2nd I would think Jones is about there.  Darnold has more physical talent than Jones, though, so maybe a 3rd is more realistic.  As far as Lock, if he can't beat a journeyman like Bridgewater for the starting job, I don't want him... unless the team is trying to get a top 5 pick next year to get the next long-term QB.
Click to expand...
I assume the trade offer was a joke.

As far as Bridgewater over Lock, Denver has a defensive minded head coach and probably a top 5 defense. The coach is also on the hot seat, he probably wants a QB who simply won’t #### it up on offense and rely on his top notch defense to carry them. Denver has some nice weapons on offense so they could be dangerous if they have a QB who doesn't turn the ball over a lot. They are in a tough division so they have their work cut out. 

 
RC94 said:
I know you're mostly joking, but I'm curious what kind of draft pick return Jones is worth.  I don't think he's worth a 1st at this point but considering Darnold was worth a 2nd I would think Jones is about there.  Darnold has more physical talent than Jones, though, so maybe a 3rd is more realistic.  As far as Lock, if he can't beat a journeyman like Bridgewater for the starting job, I don't want him... unless the team is trying to get a top 5 pick next year to get the next long-term QB.
Click to expand...
I was kidding oly because I know it wouldnt happen ....But I think Jones could get you a 1st round pick. 1st off teams always overpay for QBs and 2nd Jones had a really good rookie season on a #### team ... last year was a disaster and the team was absolute grabage so it's hard to blame DJ. Going into his 3rd seaon he is statistically right where Baker and Josh Allen were heading into their 3rd seasons and way the hell ahead of Darnold after his 3rd season ... that is a serious insult to DJ

I think DJ is a good QB if he is on a decent team ... unfortunately he might not get the chance to prove it

 
Yenrub said:
I assume the trade offer was a joke.

As far as Bridgewater over Lock, Denver has a defensive minded head coach and probably a top 5 defense. The coach is also on the hot seat, he probably wants a QB who simply won’t #### it up on offense and rely on his top notch defense to carry them. Denver has some nice weapons on offense so they could be dangerous if they have a QB who doesn't turn the ball over a lot. They are in a tough division so they have their work cut out. 
Click to expand...
I agree that Bridgewater does a better job of not losing than Lock, but he also doesn't win you any games.  They have a good defense so I get that strategy, but I don't think it's enough because an offense led by a player like him becomes stale.  They're hoping to be like BAL with Dilfer, but I don't think their defense is all time great like that.  Losing to him makes me think that Lock isn't a long-term answer for anyone.  During the draft, I thought DEN made a mistake by passing on Fields and Mac Jones and now I'm convinced of it.

 
monk said:
I was kidding oly because I know it wouldnt happen ....But I think Jones could get you a 1st round pick. 1st off teams always overpay for QBs and 2nd Jones had a really good rookie season on a #### team ... last year was a disaster and the team was absolute grabage so it's hard to blame DJ. Going into his 3rd seaon he is statistically right where Baker and Josh Allen were heading into their 3rd seasons and way the hell ahead of Darnold after his 3rd season ... that is a serious insult to DJ

I think DJ is a good QB if he is on a decent team ... unfortunately he might not get the chance to prove it
Click to expand...
I agree that teams overpay for QBs, but usually when they have the arm talent of a Darnold, which Jones doesn't have.  You guys know how little I think of Garrett and the offensive line, but I think Jones deserves more of the blame for his performance last year than you're giving him.  His strength is his intelligence and he made the same mistakes over and over last year.  I just didn't see that intelligence at all.  If things start to click for him mentally, he can be a good starter because I think his arm is good enough and he's mobile, but after what I saw from him last year I'm a little skeptical now.  I would still rather have him over Lock, though.

 
From the Edge (formally Rotoworld):

MATT PEARTT, NEW YORK GIANTS

NJ.com reports the Giants' offensive line has "had a rough camp overall." 

Per beat writer Zack Rosenblatt, "Thursday might’ve been one of their worst days." Rosenblatt believes the "time to sound the alarm for the Giants offensive line has already came and went." Rosenblatt singled out RT Matt Peart as someone who got absolutely dominated by the Patriots in joint practices. Neither Peart nor LT Andrew Thomas covered themselves in glory last season, and the G-Men did little to address what was one of the league's very worst lines. It is something to remember when drafting Saquon Barkley or superflexing Daniel Jones. 
Click to expand...

 
monk said:
Jones had a really good rookie season
Click to expand...
Take away his games against Washington (5tds), Jets (4tds), and lions (4tds) which were three of the worst defenses in the NFL in 2019 and he went 11 tds to 12 ints.  Even in his second go round against the terrible wash team he went 1td/2ints.

Jones is bad, was bad, will be bad.  Anyone who thinks differently is looking at him with rose colored glasses.

Rubi said:
Any predictions as we get close to football that counts? The "I'm not real excited about this team" fan says 5 wins. The "Maybe I'm wrong just a little bit" fan says 7 wins. On the bright side,the "We have Da Bears #1 pick next year" fan has them at 5 wins also. Opinions? Predictions?
Click to expand...
Without looking at the schedule I'm going to say 5 wins.  Their division sucks, but their offense sucks more. Split with the eagles and wash, lose out to dal, and pick up three random wins along the way.  No way they make the playoffs.

 
wgoldsph said:
Take away his games against Washington (5tds), Jets (4tds), and lions (4tds) which were three of the worst defenses in the NFL in 2019 and he went 11 tds to 12 ints.  Even in his second go round against the terrible wash team he went 1td/2ints.

Jones is bad, was bad, will be bad.  Anyone who thinks differently is looking at him with rose colored glasses.

Without looking at the schedule I'm going to say 5 wins.  Their division sucks, but their offense sucks more. Split with the eagles and wash, lose out to dal, and pick up three random wins along the way.  No way they make the playoffs.
Click to expand...
We should have drafted Fields then…

 
Uncle Leo said:
We should have drafted Fields then…
Click to expand...
They should have gotten rid of gettleman (or better yet never hired him) and never hired the clapper to be the offensive coordinator.  Should have picked a better tackle last year and not wasted their first on a gadget WR who isn't ready to play professional football yet.

Make no mistake, this team is bad from top to bottom.   But at least there's always the Texans, lions, and Jets to look down on.

 
wgoldsph said:
Take away his games against Washington (5tds), Jets (4tds), and lions (4tds) which were three of the worst defenses in the NFL in 2019 and he went 11 tds to 12 ints.  Even in his second go round against the terrible wash team he went 1td/2ints.

Jones is bad, was bad, will be bad.  Anyone who thinks differently is looking at him with rose colored glasses.

Without looking at the schedule I'm going to say 5 wins.  Their division sucks, but their offense sucks more. Split with the eagles and wash, lose out to dal, and pick up three random wins along the way.  No way they make the playoffs.
Click to expand...
wgoldsph said:
Take away his games against Washington (5tds), Jets (4tds), and lions (4tds) which were three of the worst defenses in the NFL in 2019 and he went 11 tds to 12 ints.  Even in his second go round against the terrible wash team he went 1td/2ints.

Jones is bad, was bad, will be bad.  Anyone who thinks differently is looking at him with rose colored glasses.

Without looking at the schedule I'm going to say 5 wins.  Their division sucks, but their offense sucks more. Split with the eagles and wash, lose out to dal, and pick up three random wins along the way.  No way they make the playoffs.
Click to expand...
Take away the 3 best TD games of Josh Allens rookie season and he 4 TDs and 12 INTs  his 2nd season 13 and 9 ... not very impressive

Baker Mayfield 17-14  ... 2nd season 14-21 

 
monk said:
Take away the 3 best TD games of Josh Allens rookie season and he 4 TDs and 12 INTs  his 2nd season 13 and 9 ... not very impressive

Baker Mayfield 17-14  ... 2nd season 14-21 
Click to expand...
Allen was terrible until last year.  I was one of his biggest critics since coming out of college.  He completely turned it around during his third year and I'm sure there's a post in the Allen thread of me eating crow after saying he'd never be able to make it in the league.

I'm not as down on baker but...  Meh?  He's never excited me.  In fact the qb from that class I thought would make it was Rosen, so that shows you how right I was there.

 
wgoldsph said:
Take away his games against Washington (5tds), Jets (4tds), and lions (4tds) which were three of the worst defenses in the NFL in 2019 and he went 11 tds to 12 ints.  Even in his second go round against the terrible wash team he went 1td/2ints.
Click to expand...
no offense, but this is kind of a silly way to evaluate anyone. 

If you have to “take away” 3 games in which he threw 13 TDs to make your point,  then you’re not making a very good point. 

And Washington’s defense has been pretty solid for years, so that one is a pretty impressive performance. You can’t just conveniently remove it from evaluation to downgrade Jones. That’s really not how any of this works. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's not really effective to evaluate Jones until we gauge his reactions to pressure. The fact we have to say this after this long tells you how his development has gone... If he can learn how to recognize and react appropriately to frontside/blindside pressure, he might turn out to be a good QB. Outside of that, who knows.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
no offense, but this is kind of a silly way to evaluate anyone. 

If you have to “take away” 3 games in which he threw 13 TDs to make your point,  then you’re not making a very good point. 

And Washington’s defense has been pretty solid for years, so that one is a pretty impressive performance. You can’t just conveniently remove it from evaluation to downgrade Jones. That’s really not how any of this works. 
Click to expand...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/11/05/washington-football-team-defense-improvement/

"Washington’s defense, which finished the 2019 season ranked among the league’s worst in nearly every major statistic"

Just the first link I could find.   My point was that Jones carved up terrible defenses and was bad while playing average+ ones.

 
The Frankman said:
It's not really effective to evaluate Jones until we gauge his reactions to pressure. The fact we have to say this after this long tells you how his development has gone... If he can learn how to recognize and react appropriately to frontside/blindside pressure, he might turn out to be a good QB. Outside of that, who knows.
Click to expand...
We have two years of tape of him being unable to react well to pressure.  Jamal Adams took the ball from his hands on a drop back for a td and Jones didn't react until Adams was five yards behind him.  I will admit that last season when he trusted his scrambling more he improved where that was concerned.

 
wgoldsph said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/11/05/washington-football-team-defense-improvement/

"Washington’s defense, which finished the 2019 season ranked among the league’s worst in nearly every major statistic"

Just the first link I could find.   My point was that Jones carved up terrible defenses and was bad while playing average+ ones.
Click to expand...
But he still carved them up. 

You can’t conveniently remove that from an evaluation. As bad as any defense in the NFL might be, they’re still an NFL defense. 

 
wgoldsph said:
We have two years of tape of him being unable to react well to pressure.  Jamal Adams took the ball from his hands on a drop back for a td and Jones didn't react until Adams was five yards behind him.  I will admit that last season when he trusted his scrambling more he improved where that was concerned.
Click to expand...
He looked great for a 3-4 game stretch last year, sending pressure & throwing it away or taking off running.

He is developing. It’s just hard to tell on that dumpster fire of a team. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
But he still carved them up. 

You can’t conveniently remove that from an evaluation. As bad as any defense in the NFL might be, they’re still an NFL defense. 
Click to expand...
Arguable, I don't qualify the current Texans team as a true NFL team any more no matter what the logo says. (sarcasm font)

Hot Sauce Guy said:
He looked great for a 3-4 game stretch last year, sending pressure & throwing it away or taking off running.

He is developing. It’s just hard to tell on that dumpster fire of a team. 
Click to expand...
I'm sure some team will see him as a reclamation project after the giants clean house at the end of this season.  Jones truthers will just have to hope he's not too damaged by then.

 
wgoldsph said:
Arguable, I don't qualify the current Texans team as a true NFL team any more no matter what the logo says. (sarcasm font)

I'm sure some team will see him as a reclamation project after the giants clean house at the end of this season.  Jones truthers will just have to hope he's not too damaged by then.
Click to expand...
Or….maybe he’ll be much better with better weapons. 

I clearly recall one game last year where he threw a perfect pass to Slayton - which would have hit him in stride for an easy 40+ yard TD. Slayton appeared to either lose the ball or quit on the route & the ball thudded down to the turf. 

Was that on Jones? Of course not. Did it show up in his box score? Only as an incomplete pass.

I’m not a Jones truther. I’ve been appropriately harsh where criticism is due. But part of that is being fair in evaluating him. 

No Barkley meant no reliable dump off option. When your 1-2 receivers are Slayton & Shepherd, no defense will be scared to blitz. 

You can’t look at one piece and make damning condemnations without acknowledging what the whole pie looks like. And it should be better this year, even without Golladay for however long he’s out.

no question it’s a make or break season for Jones. I am of the belief that he will continue to develop. And if he doesn’t, ok fine - but I’m going to wait to see what he can do with a halfway decent offense around him. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
He looked great for a 3-4 game stretch last year, sending pressure & throwing it away or taking off running.

He is developing. It’s just hard to tell on that dumpster fire of a team. 
Click to expand...
He literally held back the team with his turnovers and horrible throws in winnable games (the Tampa Bay game last year comes to mind) and the Giants only found success when they stripped down the O and made Jones a game manager (no deep throws and only the occasional intermediate YAC shot usually to Engram).

Was the team around him not good? Oh yes. Was he victimized by that? Sure. But he was as large a problem contributing to the team's woes until they simplified (again) the O and didn't give Jones a chance to lose them games. That's when you started seeing him actually see some pressure and ... still not make good decisions. But seeing pressure is a start, which is why I responded to @Yenrub earlier the way I did. Get him as many reps as possible and maybe you can get a poor man's Josh Allen 2020 out of him, best case scenario.

Hot Sauce Guy said:
No Barkley meant no reliable dump off option. When your 1-2 receivers are Slayton & Shepherd, no defense will be scared to blitz.

You can’t look at one piece and make damning condemnations without acknowledging what the whole pie looks like. And it should be better this year, even without Golladay for however long he’s out.

no question it’s a make or break season for Jones. I am of the belief that he will continue to develop. And if he doesn’t, ok fine - but I’m going to wait to see what he can do with a halfway decent offense around him. 
Click to expand...
This is another criticism of Jones. Because he can't reliably read the defenses/feel pressure, he doesn't check down. Saquon was criminally underutilized by Jones in the games he played with him.

I've watched Jones every single game has a Giants fan. I don't care about his running ability/throws/etc. it starts with him reading defenses/pressure and responding accordingly; if he can't reliably do that he can't be a quality QB.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Frankman said:
He literally held back the team with his turnovers and horrible throws in winnable games (the Tampa Bay game last year comes to mind) and the Giants only found success when they stripped down the O and made Jones a game manager (no deep throws and only the occasional intermediate YAC shot usually to Engram).
Click to expand...
that’s one narrative. I disagree with it - it looked more to me like he started making better secondary reads & using his legs.  He was throwing on the run & hitting players in stride. 

he also had Engram drop 8 balls, and Slayton quit on routes, as I mentioned above.

I didn’t see him holding back his team - I saw him surrounded by trash in a trash division where they shouldn’t have been sniffing playoffs witn that trash record. 

The Frankman said:
Was the team around him not good? Oh yes. Was he victimized by that? Sure. But he was as large a problem contributing to the team's woes until they simplified (again) the O and didn't give Jones a chance to lose them games. That's when you started seeing him actually see some pressure and ... still not make good decisions. But seeing pressure is a start, which is why I responded to @Yenrub earlier the way I did. Get him as many reps as possible and maybe you can get a poor man's Josh Allen 2020 out of him, best case scenario.
Click to expand...
Or, the difficult year may have taught him some valuable lessons & allowed him to develop without as much pressure. They became a more run-heavy through Gallman team workout Barkley & never really had a capable dump-off option. But he did improve in several areas, and if the team is indeed improved, I expect it to pay off. 

I don’t know what he could be - maybe a poor man’s josh Allen is a good comp. he sure looked good throwing on the run & picking up 1sts with his legs when they opened up the offense for him to do so. 

More of that this year and he could be a sneaky streamable value off the wire. 

 
wgoldsph said:
Allen was terrible until last year.  I was one of his biggest critics since coming out of college.  He completely turned it around during his third year and I'm sure there's a post in the Allen thread of me eating crow after saying he'd never be able to make it in the league.

I'm not as down on baker but...  Meh?  He's never excited me.  In fact the qb from that class I thought would make it was Rosen, so that shows you how right I was there.
Click to expand...
Not to be a #### but why would I value opinion of Daniel Jones with that QB evalation track record ???

If you look back in the Giants Draft threads you will see that I said that Mayfield and Allen were the only QBs that the Giants should consider drafting  in the first round of the 2018 draft. I said that Darnold and Rosen were trash.

2019 -. Everyone was pushing for Haskins who I said was trash and that Jones (who hadnt been drafted by the Giants yet) was much more impressive. in the combine. The only QB that I thought was worth drafting early was Murray, who everyone insisted was too small. I was thouroughly opposed to drafting a QB with the crop of QBs avilable in 2020 (and Trevor in 2021) but was happy to have Jones rather than Haskins 

2020 - I would have considered drafting Herbert who I had been waiting for the Giants to land for 3 years and trading Jones. I liked Tua a lot (obviously the injuries were a concern) and would have drafted him if the Giants needed a QB. I was not sold on Burrow after 1 gigantic season .. I could be wrong about that

2021 - Trevor Obviously ... And Fields obviously not

 
wgoldsph said:
Allen was terrible until last year.  I was one of his biggest critics since coming out of college.  He completely turned it around during his third year and I'm sure there's a post in the Allen thread of me eating crow after saying he'd never be able to make it in the league.

I'm not as down on baker but...  Meh?  He's never excited me.  In fact the qb from that class I thought would make it was Rosen, so that shows you how right I was there.
Click to expand...
Not to be a #### but why would I value opinion of Daniel Jones with that QB evalation track record ???

If you look back in the Giants Draft threads you will see that I said that Mayfield and Allen were the only QBs that the Giants should consider drafting  in the first round of the 2018 draft. I said that Darnold and Rosen were trash.

2019 -. Everyone was pushing for Haskins who I said was trash and that Jones (who hadnt been drafted by the Giants yet) was much more impressive. in the combine. The only QB that I thought was worth drafting early was Murray, who everyone insisted was too small. I was thouroughly opposed to drafting a QB with the crop of QBs avilable in 2020 (and Trevor in 2021) but was happy to have Jones rather than Haskins 

2020 - I would have considered drafting Herbert who I had been waiting for the Giants to land for 3 years and trading Jones. I liked Tua a lot (obviously the injuries were a concern) and would have drafted him if the Giants needed a QB. I was not sold on Burrow after 1 gigantic season .. I could be wrong about that

2021 - Trevor Obviously ... And Fields obviously not

 
  • Nobody takes into account that the Giants had the 31st ranked oline in the NFL last season and are ranked 32nd going into this season???
  • Jones has been pressured (hurried , hit or sacked) more than any QB in the NFL over the last 2 seasons 
  • I believe that I read that at some point last year the Giant WRs were the worst in the NFL at getting separation
  • Jones lead the team in rushing throught the 1st 4-5 games last season and Gallman was there leading rusher on the season with 645 yds 
I'm sorry no QB is going to be good under those circumstances 

 
monk said:
Not to be a #### but why would I value opinion of Daniel Jones with that QB evalation track record ???

If you look back in the Giants Draft threads you will see that I said that Mayfield and Allen were the only QBs that the Giants should consider drafting  in the first round of the 2018 draft. I said that Darnold and Rosen were trash.

2019 -. Everyone was pushing for Haskins who I said was trash and that Jones (who hadnt been drafted by the Giants yet) was much more impressive. in the combine. The only QB that I thought was worth drafting early was Murray, who everyone insisted was too small. I was thouroughly opposed to drafting a QB with the crop of QBs avilable in 2020 (and Trevor in 2021) but was happy to have Jones rather than Haskins 

2020 - I would have considered drafting Herbert who I had been waiting for the Giants to land for 3 years and trading Jones. I liked Tua a lot (obviously the injuries were a concern) and would have drafted him if the Giants needed a QB. I was not sold on Burrow after 1 gigantic season .. I could be wrong about that

2021 - Trevor Obviously ... And Fields obviously not
Click to expand...
So after being right about a player for two years and him having a dramatic turn around (Allen), being right about Baker (meh), we were Both wrong in not picking Jackson as the best qb from the 2018 draft.  You're assuming I liked any not Murray qb in 2019, and in the long term I'm not a fan of how slight Murray is.

As for Fields, why not?  He looks like a suped up Big Ben to me.

monk said:
  • Nobody takes into account that the Giants had the 31st ranked oline in the NFL last season and are ranked 32nd going into this season???
  • Jones has been pressured (hurried , hit or sacked) more than any QB in the NFL over the last 2 seasons 
  • I believe that I read that at some point last year the Giant WRs were the worst in the NFL at getting separation
  • Jones lead the team in rushing throught the 1st 4-5 games last season and Gallman was there leading rusher on the season with 645 yds 
I'm sorry no QB is going to be good under those circumstances 
Click to expand...
Watson dominated on the Texans for how long?  Dragged their ### to the playoffs even.  I know they had Nuk, but when they traded him for a bag of peanut shells and the corpse of a running back last year Watson still was a top qb.  How about Matt Stafford playing his career behind terrible lines with absolutely no run game?  And I posted earlier in the thread about Andrew Luck and his talentless oline that basically drove him out of football while he still put up 40 tds in a season.   What you mean is no bad qb will be good under those circumstances.

Good qbs make up for bad teams around them.  When the chiefs had no oline in the superbowl Mahomes ran for 500 yards behind the line of scrimmage and tossed darts horizontally (that went between two defenders and clunked off his receiver's facemask).  Rodgers has had one WR worth throwing to for years now and just won the mvp.  Brady had one true stud at WR his whole NE career.

Jones is bad.  Unless he becomes a different qb this season like Allen did last year he's still going to be bad.  Because he's on a bad team it doesn't excuse his bad play.

 
wgoldsph said:
So after being right about a player for two years and him having a dramatic turn around (Allen), being right about Baker (meh), we were Both wrong in not picking Jackson as the best qb from the 2018 draft.  You're assuming I liked any not Murray qb in 2019, and in the long term I'm not a fan of how slight Murray is.

As for Fields, why not?  He looks like a suped up Big Ben to me.

Watson dominated on the Texans for how long?  Dragged their ### to the playoffs even.  I know they had Nuk, but when they traded him for a bag of peanut shells and the corpse of a running back last year Watson still was a top qb.  How about Matt Stafford playing his career behind terrible lines with absolutely no run game?  And I posted earlier in the thread about Andrew Luck and his talentless oline that basically drove him out of football while he still put up 40 tds in a season.   What you mean is no bad qb will be good under those circumstances.

Good qbs make up for bad teams around them.  When the chiefs had no oline in the superbowl Mahomes ran for 500 yards behind the line of scrimmage and tossed darts horizontally (that went between two defenders and clunked off his receiver's facemask).  Rodgers has had one WR worth throwing to for years now and just won the mvp.  Brady had one true stud at WR his whole NE career.

Jones is bad.  Unless he becomes a different qb this season like Allen did last year he's still going to be bad.  Because he's on a bad team it doesn't excuse his bad play.
Click to expand...
Jackson is better than me, you and at least 31 teams expected him to be ... He also has been on one of the best teams in the NFL since the day he was drafted.  Put Jackson on the Giants the past 3 seasons and his career might already be over. Regardless I would take Allen over Jackson in a heartbeat.

  • PFF Oline Ranking 2018 - 10th  
  • PFF Oline Ranking 2019 - 2nd 
  • PFF Oline Ranking 2020 - 13th 
Josh Allen has gotten better every year and so has his Oline

  • PFF Oline Ranking 2018 - 26th  
  • PFF Oline Ranking 2019 - 21st 
  • PFF Oline Ranking 2020 - 10th 
Fields - This is the NFL not Ohio State ... ask Haskins. He reminds you of Big Ben? Why ...cause he is Big? 

Watson - Top 3-5 QB in the NFL ... I expected Watson to be real good in the NFL and he is way better than Jones but he's also had some great weapons every year 

  • 3 x 1st rd picks - Hopkins (best in NFL), Cooks (1000 every year) , Fuller, Lamar Miller,  Hyde (2 x 1000 yd rushers) 
Stafford?? - Im not even sure what point you are trying to make anymore?  I like Stafford and think he is a good QB ... but he has a losing record and threw to arguably the most dominant WR in NFL history  ... his first 2 seasons were much worse than Jones' ... Im not sure where you are going wth this one  

Andrew Luck ... Reggie Wayne (Hall Of Famer?) and Ty Hilton (1000 yds every year) were pretty good Receivers ... Frank Gore (Hall of Famer?) was pretty good as well 

  • PFF had IND  Oline ranked 17th in 2014 When Luck threw for 40TDs 
  • PFF had IND  Oline ranked 3rd  in 2018 When Luck threw for 39TDs 
When the chiefs had no oline Mahomes had a 52 QB Rating against Tampa and got destroyed ... Jones who has never had an Oline had a 74.8 QB Rating against Tampa and almost beat them

Jones 

  • PFF Oline Ranking 2019 - 17th  Plus Barkley = 24 tds in 12 games (great Rookie Season) 
  • PFF Oline Ranking 2020 - 31st  minus Barkley = 11 Tds in 14 games (However turnovers dropped significantly) 







 
Last edited by a moderator:
Giant Draft Picks so far ... not looking good at all

  1. Kadarius Toney  (Round 1, No. 20 overall) - Hasnt played much ... very odd preseason
  2. Azeez Ojulari (Round 2, No. 50 overall) - Looked good in the beginning of camp but has faded. Head coach Joe Judge appeared on a couple of occasions to hint that perhaps Ojulari’s conditioning wasn’t up to NFL muster.
  3. Aaron Robinson (Round 3, No. 71 overall) Treaded up to take him which was questionable ...has been on the PUP since
  4. Elerson Smith (Round 5, No. 116 overall) likely to start the season on the IR ...doesnt look like he will see the field much this year if at all
  5. Gary Brightwell (Round 6, No. 196 overall) ... probably Practice Squad
  6. Rodarius Williams (Round 6, No. 201 overall)
If Ojulari deosnt work out this could be a complete throwaway draft with 0 draft pick contribution 

 
Watching the game late in the 1st, line and Jones having issues so far. That Slayton drop didn't help. S/T isn't bad though.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
1st quarter notes

1st drive

Offense

Thomas gives up sack on 3rd 5

Defense

Rodarius Williams with nice pass breakup

2nd drive

Offense

Nice opening play to Engram

Toss to Slay – probably goes to Toney in the future

Thomas gave up another pressure – completed pass to Booker anyway

Judon with a nice hit on Jones

Thomas beat for a sack on the empty set, but Jones had RB wide open in middle of field but didn’t throw the ball

Slayton with a big drop – Jones under pressure

Defense

Blake Martinez with a great interception. He basically took the ball out of the receivers’ hands as they fell to the ground

 
2nd quarter

1st drive (of quarter)

Offense

Jones pressured but completed pass to Shepard

Jones given time and completed 20-yard pass to Shepard – good protection by OL

Jones pressured again (I’m sensing a theme) incomplete targeting Shepard in the endzone

Jones pressured but Giants get a defensive holding

Nice motion play to Engram to get down to one yard line (maybe someone has spoken to Garrett about using motion this year)

Went back to the same motion play on 3rd and goal and Jones throws an INT

Defense

Gave M Jones too much time on a 20 yard completion

Had good pressure on Jones but Bradberry called for a hold

Patriots move down the field pretty well but are forced to settle for FG when Sexy Dexy got a coverage sack on 3rd and 9

2nd drive

Offense

3 and out Engram hurt

Defense

Not too much to write about

Offense (2-minute drill)

Nice out route throw to Board – Jones had time for a change

Brightwell with nice catch out of backfield and gets out of bounds

Hey Jones makes a smart play, instead of giving up coverage sack he threw the ball away

Another smart play by Jones, gets a 1st down with his feet and gets out of bounds

Great throw and protection on TD pass to Kaden Smith

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Jones stat line isn’t bad - I missed seeing the game, but 17/22 for 135 1/1 isn’t too bad. No fumbles, so…
Click to expand...
That’s why stats can’t tell you the whole story

The interception in the end zone was a horrible decision

Also, he took a sack that he didn’t have to take by missing Booker running wide open across his face

To be fair he has been under a lot of pressure and he did make a couple of nice decisions during the two minute drill.

Speaking of pressure, Von Miller and my guy Bradley Chubb are going to be a huge problem week 1.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Yogibear
Don Coryell selected as Coach finalist for Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2023
Replies
12
Views
911
massraider
massraider
The Frankman
Dynasty & Redraft: Matt LaCosse, Retired
Replies
48
Views
3K
The Frankman
The Frankman
Dr. Octopus
2017 New York Jets: Robby Anderson has been arrested in Florida for the second straight offseason. This is why we can't have nice things.
15 16 17
Replies
810
Views
28K
Dezbelief
Dezbelief

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 5 (members: 0, guests: 5)
Top