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Trump and the 16 women (1 Viewer)
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
Link?
I blatantly said I think he should be removed because he has the mental capacity of a child. You don't need to make #### upAnd it gets better when in my posts I say you can throw out this sexism, allegations of sexual assault and/or sexual harassment and there's still plenty to throw him out on. Can't make this #### up
I don't need this particular set of allegations to be outraged with Trump
The Commish
Footballguy
Well, it was my battle, but as I read, I had a realization.....I'm done. Don't let yourself get dragged into it....it's not worth it. They don't care about what is actually being said, just their narrative.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Agree for sure. We all (me first) can do better there reading comments charitably. And asking questions like you did today. It's the old Steven Covey "Seek first to understand, THEN to be understood" thing. It's basic communication 101 but I see so little of it. The same idea extends to all communication or relationships. Assume the best of others. Some will laugh it off as naive. I think it's a better way to live. And I think it absolutely produces better discussion.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I almost edited immediately and added "Think 'What Would Joe Bryant Do, if he didn't already want to beat all our heads in with a lead pipe for how discussion in this forum often goes?'" but thought better of it.
massraider
Footballguy
Immediate assumption of guilt is kind of what we do. No reason this should be any different. The Duke lacrosse case, I definitely assumed they were guilty.
Sexual harassment is a rotten thing to be accused of, and being falsely accused of it is a nightmare. That nightmare scenario makes people imagine large numbers of innocent men, lives ruined because of vindictive women.
I've been waiting for the " Hey, maybe this thing is going too far now" opinion pieces.
Wherever they come out, just remember that they are complete and total BS.
For one thing, there are not large numbers of women that are willing to go through the humiliating experience of making the accusation, and it becoming the focus of their lives. And I'm talking about women that HAVE BEEN sexually harassed or assaulted.
We can count this new reality in terms of weeks. Women have been putting up with this, and have seen their careers ruined, for DECADES.
We are a long, long, long way from wondering if the backlash has gone too far.
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't think it's defeatist to spit out the hook. It should be done a lot more around here. I am happy to reengage if it's shown that they are actually reading what I am writing, but I'm not holding my breath.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Makes sense. You want to savor it. Really take your time.Maybe a whiffle ball bat Buddy. Not lead pipe.
No savor. You guys are good. Part of the game.
I know you're being lighthearted but I do think it's been a nice vibe to the board lately. A few that didn't want to be part of what we're doing and they're out for a bit but by and large, I think we've had some good discussion. Thanks.
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Agreed. I think it's totally fine to drop a conversation if you don't feel it's going to be productive.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
I've pointed out several places where you've contradicted yourself in a single post and how at best your posts are confusing. But, if you want to go ahead and claim people are fishing or trolling that would just be par for the course.
Here is where you started holding Trump, and everyone else apparently, to a higher standard than our legal system.
The Commish
Footballguy
If you keep reading, you'll see I clarified that I am talking about the court of public opinion and that I completely understand our legal system and how it works and respect the process. I believe it's in a response to DW. Want to try again? No matter how you twist it, context will always matter even if you don't want it to
Sorry...I missed the posts of my contradictions. Was it this thread or somewhere else? Not saying I haven't contradicted myself, but I'd at least like to see what you're talking about.
Oh, and before we go down the morality rabbit hole, I FULLY acknowledge my morality is well above what's required to be "not guilty" in our courts of law. I wish others would join me in raising that bar, but it seems like that's a pipe dream.
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That's fine. And admittedly you wanted Trump to stand down on his own.If you keep reading, you'll see I clarified that I am talking about the court of public opinion and that I completely understand our legal system and how it works and respect the process. Want to try again? No matter how you twist it, context will always matter even if you don't want it to
Sorry...I missed the posts of my contradictions. Was it this thread or somewhere else? Not saying I haven't contradicted myself, but I'd at least like to see what you're talking about.
Oh, and before we go down the morality rabbit hole, I FULLY acknowledge my morality is well above what's required to be "not guilty" in our courts of law. I wish others would join me in raising that bar, but it seems like that's a pipe dream.
It was Tim who wanted us to impeach him somehow.
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No. I'm suggesting you can't get the president impeached based on your own moral system or what you think he might have done. If he's charged, sure.
pantherclub
Footballguy
speaking of moving the goalposts......If you keep reading, you'll see I clarified that I am talking about the court of public opinion and that I completely understand our legal system and how it works and respect the process. I believe it's in a response to DW. Want to try again? No matter how you twist it, context will always matter even if you don't want it to
Sorry...I missed the posts of my contradictions. Was it this thread or somewhere else? Not saying I haven't contradicted myself, but I'd at least like to see what you're talking about.
Oh, and before we go down the morality rabbit hole, I FULLY acknowledge my morality is well above what's required to be "not guilty" in our courts of law. I wish others would join me in raising that bar, but it seems like that's a pipe dream.
msommer
Footballguy
Allegedly one of them sent a video of himself masturbating to the accuser. If true, at the very least that is gross. I have a hard time seeing how it would not be unwanted, and certainly sexual. Whether it crosses any legal boundaries I'll leave to the lawyerguys.
It would also seem like this was fairly easy to prove one way or another. Does the accuser have the video? Does it show what she claims it does. Did she receive a video file from the accused in the timeframe she claims, etc.
So, suppose she took the video to HR, showed it to the manager, and said "there's this.a and these two other guys have been doing x,y and z which I want to stop, it's really bothering me"
What will the HR manager do? Exactly what was done here in this case. Get them off the air, and start damage control/investigating.
So the nature of the complaint, fits the visual from the outside - the only thing we the public can't/haven't seen is the video and the conduct of the other two accused.
When the outward appearances of actions by the network logically indicates more fire than smoke, that the accusation contains things that are easily verifiable, and still the actions by the netword indicate fire rather than smoke, why would you assume innocence?
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pantherclub
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
Please show your work on societal changes vis a vis this topic, with citations
TIA
pantherclub
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Actually, I want him to go down in a blaze of embarrassment if at all possible. Obstruction alone justifies that IMO. The guy is an embarrassment to mankind IMO.That's fine. And admittedly you wanted Trump to stand down on his own.
The Commish
Footballguy
bless your little heartspeaking of moving the goalposts......If you keep reading, you'll see I clarified that I am talking about the court of public opinion and that I completely understand our legal system and how it works and respect the process. I believe it's in a response to DW. Want to try again? No matter how you twist it, context will always matter even if you don't want it to
Sorry...I missed the posts of my contradictions. Was it this thread or somewhere else? Not saying I haven't contradicted myself, but I'd at least like to see what you're talking about.
Oh, and before we go down the morality rabbit hole, I FULLY acknowledge my morality is well above what's required to be "not guilty" in our courts of law. I wish others would join me in raising that bar, but it seems like that's a pipe dream.
msommer
Footballguy
You are Sean Rad, Jonathan Badeen, Justin Mateen, Joe Munoz, Dinesh Moorjani, or Whitney Wolfe?
What the heck are you spending your time in FBG for?
timschochet
Footballguy
This is not true, at least not for me (I can't speak for the Commish, but I suspect it's not true for him either.)
I want President Trump to resign, or to be impeached, because of his history of boorish, awful behavior. If you believe that this ship has sailed, or that I am ignoring the fact that many of his bad actions might not be illegal, then you apparently don't understand our Constitution. The Constitution deliberately does not define what "high crimes and misdemeanors" are; they are what the Senate decides they are. Impeachment is a political process. Impeaching and removing Trump because of his past actions towards women is perfectly legitimate.
I acknowledge the fact that this will very likely not happen. But it's what I want to happen, and I believe it is the only just outcome.
pantherclub
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I don't mean to put you down, but this is a terrible question and it makes you sound awful that you even asked it. (And that's aside from your use of quotation marks.) It makes you sound like you regard the leadership of this country only in terms of how it directly affects you personally, and that you expect everyone else to share your selfishness. I certainly don't. If our President mistreats women, that makes him a bad man. If our President is a bad man, then it's bad for our country and for the world.
There are things I care about even if my personal life is unaffected.
Doug B
Footballguy
Not defending Trump:
Given the bolded ... ANY impeachment proceeding at all against any President is legitimate. Obama, for example, could've been impeached for wearing the wrong color tie.
Of course, impeachment is not removal. But still. Many politicians will want to be careful with treating Trump as some kind of sui generis, even as he really is one.
squistion
Footballguy
That was then and this is now:
http://deadline.com/2018/01/casey-affleck-academy-awards-withdrawal-best-actress-me-too-movement-controversy-1202269196/
Casey Affleck Withdraws From Oscars: Won’t Present Best Actress Award
EXCLUSIVE: Casey Affleck has withdrawn from presenting the Best Actress Award at the upcoming Oscars, Deadline hears. He has notified the Academy he will not be attending the event, sources said. I’ve heard that Affleck did not want to become a distraction from the focus that should be on the performances of the actresses in the category and that is why he made the proactive move. He was in a no-win situation, with all the attention surrounding the #MeToo movement. The specter of Affleck presenting would have created controversy.
Affleck won the Best Actor Oscar last year for his performance in Manchester By the Sea. Long considered an underrated actor with strong performances in everything from Gone Baby Gone to Out of the Furnace and Good Will Hunting, Affleck turned in a career performance in the Kenneth Lonergan-directed film as the shell of a man haunted by past family trauma. But attention right now isn’t on that accomplishment as much as the outcry over a settlement and non-disclosure agreements that followed allegations of inappropriate behavior toward two women who worked on I’m Still Here, the film Affleck directed that starred Joaquin Phoenix.
It has been a tradition at Oscars that the Best Actor winner presents the Best Actress trophy while the Best Actress winner presents Best Actor. Affleck’s decision alleviates a potential sore point for the Academy, and also eliminates an awkward situation for the five nominated lead actresses. Affleck’s hope is to put the focus back on their performances.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Uh huh. He withdrew. He wasn't shunned by the Academy. He hasn't been banned from receiving awards.
Did you read the conversation you're replying to? The one Joe and I were having? We were talking about people not being able to have a job in their chosen industries after an allegation. Whereas Casey Affleck won an Oscar after his.
Casey Affleck has a movie coming out with Robert Redford this year. I think he'll still be able to work.
squistion
Footballguy
Probably be able to find work, but if they were to rerun the best actor nominations from last year, there would probably be a different result IMO. Doubt there will be future Oscars on his mantle.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
There's a big difference between "Won't be able to work" and "Won't be the highest-awarded member of his profession." Also - Affleck paid out a settlement in his case.
squistion
Footballguy
His future work may well be impacted, may not be considered or offered roles he was even a year ago. Would not be surprised if he doesn't make the final cut for best actor nominees. We will see.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Yeah, it was really awkward for Affleck get the award from Brie Larson. Who won it the previous year for Room
packersfan
Footballguy
She’s on record talking about how uncomfortable it was being on the awards season tour with him.
Ned
Footballguy
“When Trump asks Carroll to advise him on what to buy, she agrees, and the two eventually make their way to the lingerie section. Trump suggests a lace bodysuit and encourages Carroll to try it on; she, deflecting, jokingly suggests that he try it on instead. After they reach the dressing rooms, events turn violent. In Carroll’s account, Trump shoves her against a wall inside a dressing room, pulls down her tights, and, “forcing his fingers around my private area, thrusts his penis halfway — or completely, I’m not certain — inside me.””
:X :X :X
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
"I've never met this person in my life," Trump wrote in a statement provided to reporters.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-says-e-jean-carroll-falsely-accused-him-sexual-assault-2019-6?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-says-e-jean-carroll-falsely-accused-him-sexual-assault-2019-6?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app
Apple Jack
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
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