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Trump And The Vaccine - A New Angle? (1 Viewer)

tonydead

Footballguy
I really don't see Trump pivoting from "stolen election" as his main message to "everyone get vaccinated" anytime soon.  The only way that happens is if his supporters stop buying the stolen election nonsense and stop donating money.  At some point, maybe he tries to push the "I created the vaccines" narrative, but it will never be a message that "everyone needs to go get vaccinated".  That would simply be inviting his political opponents to ask him why he took so long to agree with them, and there is no good answer to that.
Trump has said on many occasions that people should get the shots.  Where are you coming up with this narrative?

Anti-mandate <> Anti-vaccine

 

Rich Conway

Footballguy
Trump has said on many occasions that people should get the shots.  Where are you coming up with this narrative?

Anti-mandate <> Anti-vaccine
"...as his main message..."

I don't want to argue about whether he's promoted the vaccine enough.  You think he has, most disagree.

But even you can't argue that his main message is about vaccines rather than the stolen election nonsense.

 

Amused to Death

Footballguy
Trump has said on many occasions that people should get the shots.  Where are you coming up with this narrative?

Anti-mandate <> Anti-vaccine
Just today Trump issued a statement about the January 6 committee (colorful language omitted). It would be far better for the country if instead he issued a statement about the omicron variant and how it would be great if people re-considered getting the vaccine.

The country would benefit if his message was about getting jabs instead of continuing to spread a lie about stolen elections.

 

IvanKaramazov

Footballguy
If Trump does an about face and becomes pro-vaccination, does that mean the pandemic is no longer a political issue?  Does it excuse his abdication of responsibility in responding to the pandemic? 
Trump did a bad job of handling the pandemic while he was in office.  That's water under the bridge -- there's nothing he can do now to change what he did then.  But right now I'm just interested in seeing more people get vaccinated, and if Trump can help out with that, his help is welcome.  

 

tonydead

Footballguy
"...as his main message..."

I don't want to argue about whether he's promoted the vaccine enough.  You think he has, most disagree.

But even you can't argue that his main message is about vaccines rather than the stolen election nonsense.
Agree, but you also said  

it will never be a message that "everyone needs to go get vaccinated"
If you're talking mandate I also agree.  If you're saying he hasn't encouraged that, in his messaging, you're wrong.  

 

tonydead

Footballguy
Just today Trump issued a statement about the January 6 committee (colorful language omitted). It would be far better for the country if instead he issued a statement about the omicron variant and how it would be great if people re-considered getting the vaccine.

The country would benefit if his message was about getting jabs instead of continuing to spread a lie about stolen elections.
I've made several posts today about several different topics.  I hope that doesn't distract from this one.  

 

tonydead

Footballguy
If Trump does an about face and becomes pro-vaccination, does that mean the pandemic is no longer a political issue?  Does it excuse his abdication of responsibility in responding to the pandemic? 
Trump is 100% pro vaccination.  100% against mandates.  

 

JIslander

Footballguy
Just today Trump issued a statement about the January 6 committee (colorful language omitted). It would be far better for the country if instead he issued a statement about the omicron variant and how it would be great if people re-considered getting the vaccine.

The country would benefit if his message was about getting jabs instead of continuing to spread a lie about stolen elections.
Seems like a good bit of free license in building a narrative for Trump -- on the whole timeline, vaccines and vaccines mandates.  The latter wasn't even an issue until a couple of months ago. 

 

Biff84

Footballguy
dkp993 said:
I should caveat my prediction.  Should the 1/6 committee move the needle (which I don’t believe they will), the NY lawsuit reveal something (this is a possibility imo) or the Maxwell trial expose something concrete (unlikely too) my guess on the odds would drop to low single digits.  

But as a betting man with the way Trump has dodged stuff his whole wife I don’t think any of those three things reveal anything significant enough to change his running plans.  
I think you’re looking at this the wrong way. If Trump smells real legal problems, one of the first things he’ll do is announce that he’s running for President. That will allow him to look like the victim of political witch hunt to take down the Republican front runner for 2024. The way he’s been acting lately, I wouldn’t be surprised that he announced soon.

 

[scooter]

Footballguy
Could well be. 

It just seemed to me that he's realized "Don't let sleepy joe and the media fool you. I saved us with this vaccine and kept it from being the Spanish Flu and killing 50 million because I'm a deal maker and I did it"  is how he runs in 2024. 

That seems relatively new to me. 
Is that a real quote? I'm confused.

 

Mookie

Footballguy
Trump did a bad job of handling the pandemic while he was in office.  That's water under the bridge -- there's nothing he can do now to change what he did then.  But right now I'm just interested in seeing more people get vaccinated, and if Trump can help out with that, his help is welcome.  
"Bad job" might be the understatement of the year, and I see absolutely nothing indicating that he is adopting a pro-vaccine stance.  He got vaccinated - that's all.

 

rockaction

Footballguy
If he did take the booing hard, my reaction isn’t about him ‘crying’ about it, it’s that Trump might realize that he’s losing the control over his followers. And it might even be a moment of humility for him.
This -- the losing control of his followers -- is why I took out that other thread. That was the main reason. It was a forward-looking thing I was positing, not an invitation to quibble about the technicalities of who said what and when. 

As for the bolded, I seriously doubt it. He isn't chastened by much. 

 

drummer

Footballguy
This -- the losing control of his followers -- is why I took out that other thread. That was the main reason. It was a forward-looking thing I was positing, not an invitation to quibble about the technicalities of who said what and when. 

As for the bolded, I seriously doubt it. He isn't chastened by much. 


It's not just losing control of his base, it's that a significant part of his base are not vaccinated and dying. But it's not like he is doing a fully throated pivot. If he sees it doesn't have an advantage or it becomes a disadvantage politically he will back off from it and light a new shiny object for his base to chase. What he wants is credit for the vaccine. But when it comes to public health overall, well, once you politicize that and especially a pandemic, it really doesn't matter what he does now when people have access to a vaccine, especially children.

COVID is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated that are prone to disinformation driven by Facebook and right wing provocateurs. Hell just read r/HermanCainAward over at Reddit. That sub aggregates Facebook posts that are full of memes, Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens posts, and anti Fauci memes to the eventual "in the hospital with COVID" to the eventual "he's on a vent, need prayer warriors!" to the eventual "he got his wings today" to the eventual GoFundMe page to help pay for the funeral.

One mention at a show in Dallas ain't gonna change all that.

 

KarmaPolice

Footballguy
Should have been 100 times.  Or 200.  Or whatever it took.  Let's put it this way; if, over the past year, he had pushed vaccination as loudly, urgently, and frequently as he has pushed the "stolen election", the country would almost certainly be in a lot better shape.
Or if he didn't counter those 10-15 times with a bunch of crap downplaying the virus or saying it was the new Democratic hoax, stuff like that.  We are able to look at his body of work as a whole, but I am glad he is saying it now.  

 

sho nuff

Footballguy
Or if he didn't counter those 10-15 times with a bunch of crap downplaying the virus or saying it was the new Democratic hoax, stuff like that.  We are able to look at his body of work as a whole, but I am glad he is saying it now.  
Right...its his whole reaction to this virus.  The downplaying it (he admitted doing so)...the administration suppressing covid information (from the House Panel report here...and wow there are other issues in that report of how bad things were).  Read more about it here.

So yes...while nice he is saying it now.  Where was he after the election?  Where was he while Biden and other past Presidents were making public service announcements to get vaccinated and while they were getting their shots in public?

 

The General

Footballguy
Trump getting kind of tied into knots here a bit on this issue. The Vax is great, but you don't have to take it, it works and keeps you from getting sick, but more people have died this year than last: Link

Pretty narrow path he has to walk here politically. 

 

HellToupee

Footballguy
Trump getting kind of tied into knots here a bit on this issue. The Vax is great, but you don't have to take it, it works and keeps you from getting sick, but more people have died this year than last: Link

Pretty narrow path he has to walk here politically. 
So you’re down on the vax?

 

-fish-

Footballguy
Should have been 100 times.  Or 200.  Or whatever it took.  Let's put it this way; if, over the past year, he had pushed vaccination as loudly, urgently, and frequently as he has pushed the "stolen election", the country would almost certainly be in a lot better shape.
Can't grift on "get vaccinated."

 

tonydead

Footballguy
So yes...while nice he is saying it now.  Where was he after the election?  Where was he while Biden and other past Presidents were making public service announcements to get vaccinated and while they were getting their shots in public?
He gave three major speeches, one in December, one in February and one in March and in all three he urged people to take the jab.  Where were you?  Not listening apparently.

 

JIslander

Footballguy
He gave three major speeches, one in December, one in February and one in March and in all three he urged people to take the jab.  Where were you?  Not listening apparently.
Link? Let me guess, in all three 99% of major speech involved complaining about the stolen election; 0.0001% of time making a mention about getting jabbed when nobody was paying attention?

 
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The General

Footballguy
He gave three major speeches, one in December, one in February and one in March and in all three he urged people to take the jab.  Where were you?  Not listening apparently.
Link? Let me guess, in all three 99% of major speech involved complaining about the stolen election; 0.0001% of time making a mention about getting jabbed when nobody was paying attention?
Dr. Trump also liked to mention gems like these during his vaccine talks

 

tonydead

Footballguy
Link? Let me guess, in all three 99% of major speech involved complaining about the stolen election; 0.0001% of time making a mention about getting jabbed when nobody was paying attention?
You have to guess says it all.  You don’t know because you didn’t listen.  You take what the MSM spoon feeds you.  Try listening to what people actually say, even if it is Trump. 
:shrug:

 

GoBirds

Footballguy
You have to guess says it all.  You don’t know because you didn’t listen.  You take what the MSM spoon feeds you.  Try listening to what people actually say, even if it is Trump. 
:shrug:
They refuse to accept any info that doesn’t support their narrative they have pushed for years. You are correct but I wouldn’t worry about forcing them to admit it, they are too invested in their narrative. 
 

Hope you and yours have a Merry Christmas!

 

JIslander

Footballguy
You have to guess says it all.  You don’t know because you didn’t listen.  You take what the MSM spoon feeds you.  Try listening to what people actually say, even if it is Trump. 
:shrug:
Just send one link to one of these entire speeches where he shouted to get jabbed from the rooftops.  

 

timschochet

Footballguy
@tonydead…is correct on this issue. Trump has repeatedly told his followers to get the vaccine. And now the booster. The mainstream media has failed to emphasize this fact. 
 

The other day Trump appeared on Candace Owens’ broadcast, and when she started to rip the vaccine Trump argued with her. It is true that many if not most of those who still refuse to take the vaccine are Trump supporters. But he’s tried to convince them otherwise, and he deserves credit for that, along with the credit he deserves for helping to get the vaccines made in the first place. And he’s not receiving that credit. 
 

I will obviously never be a Donald Trump fan. I think he was overall the worst President ever, corrupt, and quite possibly a traitor to this country (we’ll see what the January 6 Committee reveals.) But I’m grateful to him for his efforts as described above. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
This is exactly what I'm talking about.

https://twitter.com/Kukicat7/status/1473743177806974977?s=20

Donald Trump: 'The Vaccine is one of the greatest achievements of mankind' 'All three vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna, J&J) are very good' 'The vaccines work - If you take the vaccine you are protected' 'People aren't dying when they take the vaccine'


I understand what some have said about Trump had always been pro vaccine. 

But it always felt like one of many positions. I don't think anyone thought "Pro Vaccine" as the first thing to come to mind when one mentioned the name "Donald Trump". 

What I'm saying I think we will see, and what we've seen recently, is a radical shift in messaging where this "I brought us this life saving vaccine and saved us from what could have been the Spanish Flu (my words)" angle is the forefront of his message.

 

Amused to Death

Footballguy
This is exactly what I'm talking about.

https://twitter.com/Kukicat7/status/1473743177806974977?s=20

I understand what some have said about Trump had always been pro vaccine. 

But it always felt like one of many positions. I don't think anyone thought "Pro Vaccine" as the first thing to come to mind when one mentioned the name "Donald Trump". 

What I'm saying I think we will see, and what we've seen recently, is a radical shift in messaging where this "I brought us this life saving vaccine and saved us from what could have been the Spanish Flu (my words)" angle is the forefront of his message.
It would be a welcomed change if that became his message over "stolen election". 

 

JIslander

Footballguy
md

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

https://twitter.com/Kukicat7/status/1473743177806974977?s=20

I understand what some have said about Trump had always been pro vaccine. 

But it always felt like one of many positions. I don't think anyone thought "Pro Vaccine" as the first thing to come to mind when one mentioned the name "Donald Trump". 

What I'm saying I think we will see, and what we've seen recently, is a radical shift in messaging where this "I brought us this life saving vaccine and saved us from what could have been the Spanish Flu (my words)" angle is the forefront of his message.
Right.  And I'm not buying that MSM was responsible for making the majority of the public miss Trumps messaging on this.  I mean if the guy didn't have lead stories each day, it was a failure for him.  Heck he hated hurricanes for taking his spotlight.  So if this was truly his focus Day 1, we all would have heard it loud and clear. 

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
Apparently not everyone in Trumpworld is happy about his recent statements about the vaccine: 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumpworld-becomes-unglued-over-trumps-praise-of-vaccine-and-booster-shots


From the article

Right-wing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, along with countless other far-right types, weren’t pleased with Trump’s enthusiastic endorsement of the vaccine.

“Sign on to it. Take credit for it. Take this, sign on, believe it. Hell, we’re fighting Bill Gates and Fauci and Biden and the New World Order and Psaki and the Davos Group,” Jones fumed on his daily show this past week, “and now we’ve got Trump on their team!”


One. I'm not sure too many people sweat losing Alex Jones' support. But "countless" might be more of a problem. I know it's Daily Beast but that's really sloppy even for them. 

 

Leroy Hoard

Footballguy
Trump is now confirmed as a died in the wool politician. Just change as the winds change. Nothing new from the once Hillary Clinton supporter.

 

Rich Conway

Footballguy
md

Right.  And I'm not buying that MSM was responsible for making the majority of the public miss Trumps messaging on this.  I mean if the guy didn't have lead stories each day, it was a failure for him.  Heck he hated hurricanes for taking his spotlight.  So if this was truly his focus Day 1, we all would have heard it loud and clear. 
Let's not forget when he attacked the idea of booster shots.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-dismisses-covid-19-booster-shots-as-money-making-operation-2021-8

 

GoBirds

Footballguy
Trump is now confirmed as a died in the wool politician. Just change as the winds change. Nothing new from the once Hillary Clinton supporter.
This is the new spin? Noted. 
 

We need to link you up with the crew complaining he needs to say it more. 😂

 
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GoBirds

Footballguy
No stopping the rolling emoji huh? Doesn't matter what Joe Byrant says.

Trolls will always be trolls. @Joe
Spending your Christmas Eve trying to get people suspended, that’s sad. Especially when you are the one name calling?
 

The rolling emoji is not allowed by itself, I included it with a joke regarding the irony of your different positions but if you are that sensitive to it just let me know and I will remove it for you. Merry Christmas friend!

 
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Chaz McNulty

Footballguy
@tonydead…is correct on this issue. Trump has repeatedly told his followers to get the vaccine. And now the booster. The mainstream media has failed to emphasize this fact. 
 

The other day Trump appeared on Candace Owens’ broadcast, and when she started to rip the vaccine Trump argued with her. It is true that many if not most of those who still refuse to take the vaccine are Trump supporters. But he’s tried to convince them otherwise, and he deserves credit for that, along with the credit he deserves for helping to get the vaccines made in the first place. And he’s not receiving that credit. 
 

I will obviously never be a Donald Trump fan. I think he was overall the worst President ever, corrupt, and quite possibly a traitor to this country (we’ll see what the January 6 Committee reveals.) But I’m grateful to him for his efforts as described above. 
I disagree a bit with you on this.  Trump tried to straddle the fence on this issue.  You had Scientists and Fauci encouraging (and begging) everyone to take the vaccine.  He had already made Fauci enemy number 1.

Trump did not tell anyone to not get vaccinated, but I would like to compare the number of times he encouraged vaccinations compared to leaders from other countries.  I would think he encouraged vaccinations less than 1% of what someone like Justin Trudeau and other leaders did.  

Do you not believe that the US is less vaccinated compared to most other Western countries because Trump did not encourage vaccinations enough?

 

Joe Bryant

Guide
Staff member
A thought on this and the "new" position.

There are a few hardcore fantatics that love to remind a politician of where they were before on an issue and rip them for changing or flipping. That's fun and makes people feel smart. For the overwhelming vast majority of the consumers/audience/voters, they don't care. They just want to know what you're position is now.

I remember years ago when McDonalds stopped using the styrofoam clamshell containers for burgers and went to paper or cardboard.

Burger King ran a big snarky ad congratulating them on changing and joining Burger King. And then let everyone know Burger King had made that change years earlier,. It was a sweet jab for Burger King and if you were a BK fan (I guess those exist) you were proud of the little slap you got in.

For everyone else, they just yawned and said, "Good job McDonalds". 

And privately Burger King executives were mad that they lost an advantage they'd previously had over the other side. 

 

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