Trump supporters on the vaccine? (1 Viewer)

[supermike80]

I quoted polls...to combat...you talking about results of a poll being 1 in 3 African Americans.  So, if it is worthless for me, why are you doing the same thing?

And also stop the board cop claims and schtick...just more crap getting personal where it does not need to.

Can't stop with the board cop when you make it a point to police people's posts.  It is what it is my man.  You earn the title.

And you are right about me quoting the 1 in 3.  I will pay my fine

 

[djmich]

It's going to take many many years to understand the damage to the heart for example.  This is my wife's area of expertise and something she's begun working on in her research.  In this specific case, the "damage" is done at onset.  Tissue is destroyed and it will never come back.  We know that to be fact.  The heart doesn't regenerate tissue.  What we don't know is how the heart will behave with that damage moving forward.  It might take the better part of a decade to get enough information to come to a consensus and it could very likely be very different across demographics and it might end up being specific to the individual that we can't make generalizations with confidence.  All that is going to take time.

That makes sense commish.

How do you feel so comfortable that the vaccine will produce no long term effects?  Don't read this in "challenge voice"...I'm looking to benefit from your research.

I have two kids under the age of 17.  Unless I'm reading the data wrong it looks like there have been less than 170 deaths of people under 17.  Also, I don't know how many of those people had other comorbidities.  Its hard for me to not compare that incredibly small covid risk for them vs the unknown long term effects (and possibly shorter term) of something produced in a laboratory

 

[yak651]

On of my MAGA friends posted on facebook:

"Because of my white privilege I'll donate my COVID vaccine to the next person"

I know he copied it from somewhere as he's not that witty, but must admit I chuckled!

 

[supermike80]

That makes sense commish.

How do you feel so comfortable that the vaccine will produce no long term effects?  Don't read this in "challenge voice"...I'm looking to benefit from your research.

I have two kids under the age of 17.  Unless I'm reading the data wrong it looks like there have been less than 170 deaths of people under 17.  Also, I don't know how many of those people had other comorbidities.  Its hard for me to not compare that incredibly small covid risk for them vs the unknown long term effects (and possibly shorter term) of something produced in a laboratory

I don't have young kids but if I did, no way I would vaccinate them.  Absolutely no chance.  Not worth the risk with an unproven vaccine

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Primarily because within the year, we'll have well documented impacts of the vaccine.  We won't have will documented impacts of the virus until many years after that.  It's going to take significantly longer to get a full grasp on the naturally occuring virus who's only mission is to survive than it is the effects of a vaccine.  As a matter of fact, it's my belief, we'll have a good take on what the impacts of the vaccine are before it's readily available for any/all to take.

How will we have documented impacts (long term) of the vaccine within the year but we can't have documented impacts of the virus for many years?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I quoted polls...to combat...you talking about results of a poll being 1 in 3 African Americans.  So, if it is worthless for me, why are you doing the same thing?

And also stop the board cop claims and schtick...just more crap getting personal where it does not need to.

It sure was nice for a few days when this schtick didn't muck up every single thread here. 

 

[shader]

It's going to take many many years to understand the damage to the heart for example.  This is my wife's area of expertise and something she's begun working on in her research.  In this specific case, the "damage" is done at onset.  Tissue is destroyed and it will never come back.  We know that to be fact.  The heart doesn't regenerate tissue.  What we don't know is how the heart will behave with that damage moving forward.  It might take the better part of a decade to get enough information to come to a consensus and it could very likely be very different across demographics and it might end up being specific to the individual that we can't make generalizations with confidence.  All that is going to take time.

The damage to heart for people that get serious cases, right?  When you say that damage to the heart is done at the onset, can you elaborate?  Is this true for asymptomatic people, children, people with mild cases?  

This is a rather significant statement to make, and isn't one that's talked about to the general public.  I doubt if 1/1000 people in the USA know that covid can cause permanent heart damage.  If that's true, why is that message not getting out?  And if it is true, is there any data that can back that statement up and break it down for adults, kids, symptomatic, asymptomatic, etc?

 

[timschochet]

I tried to bring up the resistance from some African-Americans several days ago but I was shut down. It’s very real and bears discussion. It is, however, separate from the resistance from some Trump supporters, and apparently for different reasons. Both issues are worthy of further examination. 

 

[supermike80]

I tried to bring up the resistance from some African-Americans several days ago but I was shut down. It’s very real and bears discussion. It is, however, separate from the resistance from some Trump supporters, and apparently for different reasons. Both issues are worthy of further examination. 

I'm gonna say, based on interviews I have seen on TV with people who do not want th vaccine, that it is simply a two fold answer

1) No belief that a vaccine could be created and approved this quickly.  My very liberal, Trump HATING father in law will not under any circumstances get the vaccine for this reason

2) A complete distrust in the government.  For a myriad of reasons( Only some Trump related---before you guys blame it all on him)

 

[JAA]

My wife is scheduled for the vaccine Jan 7.  She isnt a Trump supporter though, am I in the wrong place?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Its hard for me to not compare that incredibly small covid risk for them vs the unknown long term effects (and possibly shorter term) of something produced in a laboratory

I have no expertise on the above comparative risks, but I do think there is an issue with the analysis.  That is it seems  that you are only considering the risk of death from Covid and not the long term risks - such as the tissue damage to the heart but at the same time are concerned about such long term risk from the vaccine?  Seems almost like there is more fear of something "produced in a laboratory" as opposed to nature.  Not trying to be critical or judgmental on this aspect as I can waiver back and forth on that topic, but that doesn't change that you have short and long considerations for both.  And maybe I'm just misreading what is here, but are the risks of covid really small or are they a scary unknown?

 

[djmich]

I have no expertise on the above comparative risks, but I do think there is an issue with the analysis.  That is it seems  that you are only considering the risk of death from Covid and not the long term risks - such as the tissue damage to the heart but at the same time are concerned about such long term risk from the vaccine?  Seems almost like there is more fear of something "produced in a laboratory" as opposed to nature.  Not trying to be critical or judgmental on this aspect as I can waiver back and forth on that topic, but that doesn't change that you have short and long considerations for both.  And maybe I'm just misreading what is here, but are the risks of covid really small or are they a scary unknown?

Agree very much.

When I referrenced the "death" statistic for COVID in the back of my mind for sure was that there could be other impacts besides death.  I am aware of that fact.  I also presume that there is a correlation between the magnitude of impact on a population and likelihood of long term impact.  So for example, someone 80 who survives covid but goes through hell to me is much more likely to have other "non death" complications than a 15yr old who brushes it off fairly easily.  I have no data to prove this though.

Again, for me there are no absolutes here, my questioning is more to the folks that believe there are...and that there are no trade-offs to be considered based on different peoples risk profiles and risk tolerances.

Regarding "produced in a laboratory" as opposed to nature.  I would say in general I am more skeptical of something produced in a laboratory than occurring in nature.  If I were to find out tomorrow that Turmeric created COVID resistance I would feel much more comfortable, in large part because its been eaten for centuries.

 

[Thunderlips]

Good to see Pence getting it.  

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I tried to bring up the resistance from some African-Americans several days ago but I was shut down. It’s very real and bears discussion. It is, however, separate from the resistance from some Trump supporters, and apparently for different reasons. Both issues are worthy of further examination. 

My decision to not get it has nothing to do with Trump.  Both myself and some of my children have had bad reactions to previous vaccines (long lasting effects that one of my children still suffers from).  It's just not worth it to chance this one will do something similar.  Call me an anti-vaxxer, anti-science, tell me I don't care about public health, or whatever other stuff you've done in the past. 

 

[Shatner!]

This narrative really needs to stop.

It was pointed out, and it has been repeated many many times by the media, that 1 in 3 African Americans are not going to get the vaccine.  That's not "Trump supporters."   Again, turning something political and into OMB when it just isn't true.

I don't doubt the numbers you are quoting about African American hesitance, but there are plenty of anti-vaxxers who are Trump supporters out there as well. Go read any news story on Facebook, etc and read the comments from Trump supporters who refuse to take the poison. They seem to lump it in with masks as "governmental control". 

 

[timschochet]

My decision to not get it has nothing to do with Trump.  Both myself and some of my children have had bad reactions to previous vaccines (long lasting effects that one of my children still suffers from).  It's just not worth it to chance this one will do something similar.  Call me an anti-vaxxer, anti-science, tell me I don't care about public health, or whatever other stuff you've done in the past. 

I’m not aware that I’ve done that to you in the past. Certainly not on this issue. If I’ve called you any such terms on other issues then perhaps you gave ample cause. But I honestly don’t remember. 
 

As far as your position on not taking the vaccine, I’m undecided how to react. I’m missing a piece of vital information: whether or not your refusal to take it could harm others besides yourself and anyone else who voluntarily refuses to take it. When I know the answer to this, I’ll know how to think about your refusal. 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

It's going to take many many years to understand the damage to the heart for example.  This is my wife's area of expertise and something she's begun working on in her research.  In this specific case, the "damage" is done at onset.  Tissue is destroyed and it will never come back.  We know that to be fact.  The heart doesn't regenerate tissue.  What we don't know is how the heart will behave with that damage moving forward.  It might take the better part of a decade to get enough information to come to a consensus and it could very likely be very different across demographics and it might end up being specific to the individual that we can't make generalizations with confidence.  All that is going to take time.

Yesterday it was reported that Lorenzo Taliaferro died at 28.  In most articles it simply stated that the local sheriff would not confirm the cause of death (or something like that).  In a few it said that someone claimed he died of a heart attack.   Whether that is true or not in this case will remain to be seen, but when I think of a 28 year old having a fatal heart attack I think some kind of anomality from birth or drugs (legal or otherwise).   I couldn't help wonder at times if we are going to need to add Covid to the list going forward.   When I hear of all of the remarkable athletes that suffer to various degrees for ten days and then are back at it after having the virus I fear that in a decade or so there will be a rash of heart attacks for healthy 38 year olds.  I hope this is just stupid mind wandering and creating fears where they need not exist, and I am certainly not involved in any expertise and maybe it is just scary because it is so unknown.  Can you wife please tell me that mind is getting carried away.  Please!

 

[timschochet]

For example: my daughter has a life threatening peanut allergy and may not be able to take the vaccine. If that is the case then she could become sick due to the decisions by some who could take the vaccine but refuse to do so out of some sort of anti-science/suspicion/ fear of side effects attitude. That would cause me to have a negative opinion of such people. 

 

[The Commish]

That makes sense commish.

How do you feel so comfortable that the vaccine will produce no long term effects?  Don't read this in "challenge voice"...I'm looking to benefit from your research.

I have two kids under the age of 17.  Unless I'm reading the data wrong it looks like there have been less than 170 deaths of people under 17.  Also, I don't know how many of those people had other comorbidities.  Its hard for me to not compare that incredibly small covid risk for them vs the unknown long term effects (and possibly shorter term) of something produced in a laboratory

I'm not completely comfortable.  Moderna is the one I am MOST comfortable with and would insist on it if I HAD to take it now.  They have been the most transparent BY FAR.  However, it's going to be pretty clear pretty quickly if there are issues with a vaccine for "the average person".  Thousands of people are going to be vaccinated really quickly and if there is a significant problem, it's going to show itself well before I even have the opportunity to get the vaccine.  The body doesn't generally put off addressing issues inside it so I am not all that concerned with something this vaccine might introduce that takes years to flesh out.

 

[The Commish]

The damage to heart for people that get serious cases, right?  When you say that damage to the heart is done at the onset, can you elaborate?  Is this true for asymptomatic people, children, people with mild cases?  

This is a rather significant statement to make, and isn't one that's talked about to the general public.  I doubt if 1/1000 people in the USA know that covid can cause permanent heart damage.  If that's true, why is that message not getting out?  And if it is true, is there any data that can back that statement up and break it down for adults, kids, symptomatic, asymptomatic, etc?

It's in the cases that damage the heart.  That's not being flippant, but not every infection makes its way to the heart or the lungs for that matter.  Caught early enough and it's not a real issue (moving forward).  There are "serious" cases where it doesn't reach the heart and there are "mild" cases where it does.  In ANY of the cases where it reaches the heart is the concern, especially in younger people.  And I'll also note that all damage to the heart is permanent...that's not unique to this virus.  Once heart cells are dead, they don't come back and new ones don't replace them.

 

[The Commish]

Yesterday it was reported that Lorenzo Taliaferro died at 28.  In most articles it simply stated that the local sheriff would not confirm the cause of death (or something like that).  In a few it said that someone claimed he died of a heart attack.   Whether that is true or not in this case will remain to be seen, but when I think of a 28 year old having a fatal heart attack I think some kind of anomality from birth or drugs (legal or otherwise).   I couldn't help wonder at times if we are going to need to add Covid to the list going forward.   When I hear of all of the remarkable athletes that suffer to various degrees for ten days and then are back at it after having the virus I fear that in a decade or so there will be a rash of heart attacks for healthy 38 year olds.  I hope this is just stupid mind wandering and creating fears where they need not exist, and I am certainly not involved in any expertise and maybe it is just scary because it is so unknown.  Can you wife please tell me that mind is getting carried away.  Please!

I don't think that's far fetched however, based on our discussions and listening to her talk with her colleagues, I think the most likely scenario will be that it is tied to a larger, more well known issue as a symptom.  So something like "this patient died of a heart attack because of valve complications we believed were tied to their exposure to COVID"...that sort of thing.  I don't think I am going a bridge too far to say that COVID is going to be tied directly to some cases where people die younger than expected....whether it's from lung or heart complications.  The studies are in their infancy, but there are a TON of people looking at it because they are concerned.  Something I'd love to revisit in 15 years and be completely wrong about.

 

[The Commish]

And I'll say it again......these vaccines are ground breaking...they aren't like any other that we've ever been exposed to.  Comparing them (and possible results based on previous reactions) is not wise IMO.  The contents are completely different.  If you guys are interested, I have an annotated copy of the report Pfizer presented to the FDA for approval.  It was annotated by one of my wife's colleagues to get information out to her students and the people who keep asking her about it (she's an epidemiologist) that she's given to anyone and everyone who's asked.  I posted it in the FFA thread, but I wasn't sure it would be valuable here in the PSF given peoples' propensity to be dug in on their positions and already have their minds made up.  I wasn't going to waste my time with it here.

 

[supermike80]

I don't doubt the numbers you are quoting about African American hesitance, but there are plenty of anti-vaxxers who are Trump supporters out there as well. Go read any news story on Facebook, etc and read the comments from Trump supporters who refuse to take the poison. They seem to lump it in with masks as "governmental control". 

You're doing it again.   

 

[The Commish]

This narrative really needs to stop.

It was pointed out, and it has been repeated many many times by the media, that 1 in 3 African Americans are not going to get the vaccine.  That's not "Trump supporters."   Again, turning something political and into OMB when it just isn't true.

Read this study if interested...this is one of dozens being done on this topic.

 

[The Commish]

sorry for hippling the crap out of this thread  

I am of the belief if the question seems genuine, then I am engaging best I can and work got in the way of answering these as they were asked.

 

[supermike80]

Read this study if interested...this is one of dozens being done on this topic.

Awe..Your very long study doesn't discuss vaccines..MAybe it does but no way I am reading all of that.  I checked the thesis and no mention of them so I stopped there.  Sorry

And please, PLEASE don't make me say it again.  I am NOT saying Trump supporters are against it.  They probably are(I don't know any but that's OK)

I do know MULTIPLE Trump HATERS..Not dislikers..but people who have an extreme, almost irrational hatred of the man, that will not get vaccinated.

And we already discussed blacks.

So link to irrevelant studies all you want..to imply or say it is Trump loyalists that won't get it, is just again doing what gets done here.  

 

[Shatner!]

You're doing it again.   

What am I doing?

 

[The Commish]

Awe..Your very long study doesn't discuss vaccines..MAybe it does but no way I am reading all of that.  I checked the thesis and no mention of them so I stopped there.  Sorry

And please, PLEASE don't make me say it again.  I am NOT saying Trump supporters are against it.  They probably are(I don't know any but that's OK)

I do know MULTIPLE Trump HATERS..Not dislikers..but people who have an extreme, almost irrational hatred of the man, that will not get vaccinated.

And we already discussed blacks.

So link to irrevelant studies all you want..to imply or say it is Trump loyalists that won't get it, is just again doing what gets done here.  

Well, first this is pretty short and concise compared to most.  It's worth the read...up to you.  It's a study on the general attitudes towards COVID.  You can get one of dozens specifically on the vaccine if you choose, but it's completely illogical to suggest that the attitudes towards COVID and it's validity and a vaccine solving for it would bear completely different results.  They won't and if they did that's some seriously messed up logic by those individuals.  The answers and attitudes are pretty black/white where the line is drawn in all these studies.  The vaccine specific studies back that up.  See it or don't...it's there  

 

[The Commish]

What am I doing?

going against his anecdotal world view?

 

[Shatner!]

going against his anecdotal world view?

True. But to be fair I'm probably using alot of my own anecdotal world.

 

[supermike80]

Well, first this is pretty short and concise compared to most.  It's worth the read...up to you.  It's a study on the general attitudes towards COVID.  You can get one of dozens specifically on the vaccine if you choose, but it's completely illogical to suggest that the attitudes towards COVID and it's validity and a vaccine solving for it would bear completely different results.  They won't and if they did that's some seriously messed up logic by those individuals.  The answers and attitudes are pretty black/white where the line is drawn in all these studies.  The vaccine specific studies back that up.  See it or don't...it's there  

Dude....Seriously.  Do you only read what you want? I'm asking for real..no joking here.  Help me out.

I specifically pointed out how it isn't ONLY Trump supporters...which you ignored completely and discussed your same link..

I don't know what to say to this..I really don't.

 

[The Commish]

Dude....Seriously.  Do you only read what you want? I'm asking for real..no joking here.  Help me out.

I specifically pointed out how it isn't ONLY Trump supporters...which you ignored completely and discussed your same link..

I don't know what to say to this..I really don't.

Who said it was?  Asking me this question is ironic at best.  I pointed out to you where a majority is coming from..not "all".   

 

[The Commish]

True. But to be fair I'm probably using alot of my own anecdotal world.

sure....and why studies are very useful in this situation.  They cut out all the nonsense like in the tax returns thread and gets right to whether or not legit conversation is the end goal.  Clearly it's not....time to move on.

 

[The Z Machine]

Good to see Pence getting it.  

Why did he jump to the top of the list?

 

[Thunderlips]

Why did he jump to the top of the list?

Old man?  

 

[The Z Machine]

Old man?  

He ain't that old.  Plus, he'll be out of a job in about a month. 

 

[GroveDiesel]

Why did he jump to the top of the list?

I’m actually glad he got it and did so very publicly. Hopefully it will convince some people to get the vaccine that otherwise wouldn’t. There is value in high profile leaders publicly getting it and advocating for it.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I’m not aware that I’ve done that to you in the past. Certainly not on this issue. If I’ve called you any such terms on other issues then perhaps you gave ample cause. But I honestly don’t remember. 
 

As far as your position on not taking the vaccine, I’m undecided how to react. I’m missing a piece of vital information: whether or not your refusal to take it could harm others besides yourself and anyone else who voluntarily refuses to take it. When I know the answer to this, I’ll know how to think about your refusal. 

I don't care what you think of my refusal.  I'm protecting myself and my children before I worry about anyone else.  If I can protect others without harming myself then fine.  That's not for you to decide or give us a 37 paragraph opinion to be perfectly honest.

 

[The Z Machine]

I don't care what you think of my refusal.  I'm protecting myself and my children before I worry about anyone else.  If I can protect others without harming myself then fine.  That's not for you to decide or give us a 37 paragraph opinion to be perfectly honest.

If you work for a big company, your employer may think differently.  Also, air travel (certainly international travel)may become difficult too.

 

[jm192]

I got myself the Ban-Hammer.  Ironically it was for being too ugly in my criticisms of the Republican party.  You can't say what I said.  And I think I was taking a bit more liberty with each passing month.  I hate that I got the timeout because It's been a period with a lot of things to discuss.  On the flip side, I've found other productive uses of my time.  

Anyways:  I received the Pfeizer Vaccine on 12/17.  I had some arm soreness for a day or so.  I go back for my 2nd dose on 1/7.  Feeling really optimistic we may be able to put this behind us...so long as people do their part and get the vaccine.  

 

[Terminalxylem]

If you are vaccinated what do you have to worry about if I am not?

1. Hospitals will be overrun with people harboring a contagious, preventable illness. This impacts both healthcare workers and people hospitalized for other reasons.

2. Incomplete acceptance of vaccination delays the day we collectively reach herd immunity, with commensurate delays in returning to “normal”.

3. Not everyone can be vaccinated, including kids and some immunocompromised individuals.

4. The longer the virus remains circulating, the more likely it mutates, potentially limiting vaccine efficacy.

 

[jm192]

I'm probably dense but the answer seems simple, because for some the risks of taking a vaccine with unknown long term effects may be greater than the risks associated with getting covid.  Honestly, I'm not very educated on the short term effects of the vaccine either.

If you are vaccinated what do you have to worry about if I am not?

Vaccination is the ticket to ending the pandemic.  

Getting the vaccine isn't just for you.  Though, the short term effects of the vaccine can't outweigh the effects of the virus (death, strokes, blood clots, permanent lung damage).  

"But I'll probably be fine if I get it."  Maybe.  Young healthy people have died though.  

But most importantly:  by getting it, you'll help contribute towards herd immunity.  You'll help end the pandemic.  You'll help prevent old people from getting it and dying.  

 

[The Commish]

I got myself the Ban-Hammer.  Ironically it was for being too ugly in my criticisms of the Republican party.  You can't say what I said.  And I think I was taking a bit more liberty with each passing month.  I hate that I got the timeout because It's been a period with a lot of things to discuss.  On the flip side, I've found other productive uses of my time.  

Anyways:  I received the Pfeizer Vaccine on 12/17.  I had some arm soreness for a day or so.  I go back for my 2nd dose on 1/7.  Feeling really optimistic we may be able to put this behind us...so long as people do their part and get the vaccine.  

Welcome back GB...your voice is desperately needed in this forum...of all the things YOU'D get pinched for  

I feel your pain...I too got pinched some time back for what sounds like something similar.

 

[gianmarco]

1. Hospitals will be overrun with people harboring a contagious, preventable illness. This impacts both healthcare workers and people hospitalized for other reasons.

2. Incomplete acceptance of vaccination delays the day we collectively reach herd immunity, with commensurate delays in returning to “normal”.

3. Not everyone can be vaccinated, including kids and some immunocompromised individuals.

4. The longer the virus remains circulating, the more likely it mutates, potentially limiting vaccine efficacy.

Yeah, but other than that, how was the show Mrs. Lincoln?

 

[Terminalxylem]

Yeah, but other than that, how was the show Mrs. Lincoln?

The special effects were very realistic. 

 

[GordonGekko]

Late to the thread, but, it appears the consensus is that the vaccine shouldn’t be mandatory which is exactly opposite of mask wearing.  What gives?  Unlike masks this is a real solution to the virus. 

What are the logistics of making the vaccine mandatory?

If someone doesn't comply, what do you do with them? Fine them? ( All you need is one person fined for it and also be a store front owner who was looted and burned out while absolutely no one came to help them, then be stuck in a state that locked down the entire time, and you have political kryptonite)  Take away their professional licenses? Put them in jail?  Get jackboots to hold them down and give it to them by force? Strip them of citizenship and deport them?

This doesn't even begin to ask the question of how to account for every American citizen. The US can't even get the Census right, so how can you enforce a nation wide mandate when you don't know if you can even account for everyone actually living in America right now.

By making it mandatory, now you've opened up an entirely different legal question about liability to the segment of the population where taking the vaccine will go very very wrong for them. That's a mathematical and statistical reality.  It's one thing if you choose to take it and sign a waiver, it's another if you are forced to take it. Way too many lawyers here on FBG to avoid this question. But since the vaccine came, in part, via Trump's Operation Warp Speed, then crickets. Always crickets from the lefty woke cancel culture lawyers here. You won't hear much about defamation is incredibly hard to prove, that qualified privilege actually exists and mandatory vaccines is a potential legal time bomb that is actually a nuke instead. And if any lawyers here think I'm villainizing them, take solace because America society at large, mass media, Hollywood, Big Education, formal medicine and Big Tech all would walk by silently if you were set on fire in public. Nothing makes me laugh more than knowing the only group that despises lawyers than the previous list are other attorneys themselves.

Then you'll be dealing with fringe issues of medical privacy. There are already going to be legal/social/cultural conflicts already when places like colleges/universities or some federal facilities won't let people without the vaccine in and that's a complex topic in itself.

This is a vaccine rushed for political gain and funded by open financial political pork. You want the average American to trust the government that locked them out of earning a living, became a part of looting and burning down of their small businesses and just passed trillions in needless political pork where mostly despicable politicians only had hours to read the bill so some of them could rush off to spend 350 dollars a plate at French Laundry?

I won't blame anyone who does take it. I won't blame anyone who doesn't take it. Some bizarre shift in our society made it acceptable to pass personal agency onto the government. You've got to sit down and weigh what's best for you and your family first.

You are responsible for your own safety. You are responsible for your own happiness in this life. You are responsible for taking control of your personal destiny with your own two hands. No one is coming to save you. This was actually taught in the generation that Wikkidpissah and I grew up in, I don't know what kind of madness in our society sold the narrative that every man is something more than an island onto himself.

The lies made normalized today is what happens when you have generations of people raised without their fathers via public policy.  A man is an island. He is necessary until he's expendable. His only currency in this short life is the value he presents to the brutal world around him. This has always been the truth.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Dude....Seriously.  Do you only read what you want? I'm asking for real..no joking here.  Help me out.

Awe..Your very long study doesn't discuss vaccines..MAybe it does but no way I am reading all of that.  

Did your standards change between these two posts? I’m also not joking, but please keep your reply short.

TL;DR 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Anyways:  I received the Pfeizer Vaccine on 12/17.  I had some arm soreness for a day or so.  I go back for my 2nd dose on 1/7.  Feeling really optimistic we may be able to put this behind us...so long as people do their part and get the vaccine.

That is all well and good, but how many McRibs have you had?    Just kidding, welcome back.  Glad you are getting some protection from the virus.  

 

[The Commish]

Did your standards change between these two posts? I’m also not joking, but please keep your reply short.

TL;DR 

exercise in futility....spit it out and move on GB.