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RB Rashaad Penny, PHI (4 Viewers)

Load management? Scared Carson owner.
And if Penny fails this weekend while Carson does enough, the same ‘scared’ logic can be said to Penny owners. For instance, the whole ‘is he a bust, is he too fat, etc.’ Btw, what about Lockett, Wilson, and Metcalf? Are those 3 players garbage now after yesterday? No. The whole offense was bad yesterday, just the Eagles were worse. Yesterday’s game was just weird in how it went for Seattle. Overall, let’s see if Penny can be the stud everyone wants him to be, consistently. Can he beat Mr. Fumble?

 
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And if Penny fails this weekend while Carson does enough, the same ‘sacred’ logic can be said to Penny owners. For instance, the whole ‘is he a bust, is he too fat, etc.’ Btw, what about Lockett yesterday? What about Wilson? Metcalf had a bad game, too. Are those 3 players garbage now? No. The whole offense was bad yesterday, just the Eagles were worse. Yesterday’s game was just weird in how it went for Seattle. Overall, let’s see if Penny can be the stud everyone wants him to be, consistently. Can he beat Mr. Fumble?
A lot of dishonest garbage. If Lockett was healthy and got benched that would be a good comparison.

 
A lot of dishonest garbage. If Lockett was healthy and got benched that would be a good comparison.
My point is that we all overreact to things too quickly, regardless of the situation. The process needs to play out to better understand what is going on, especially after a weird game. Football likes to play tricks on us. Apparently we are not on the same page and that’s fine. Onward to week 13. 

 
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My point is that we all overreact to things too quickly, regardless of the situation. The process needs to play out to better understand what is going on. Apparently we are not on the same page. Onward to week 13. 
What's going on is that Carson has 7 fumbles in 11 games. If you believe that the coaching staff will continue to abide that situation and it will not affect Carson's workload, that's a reasonable opinion but this isn't about overaction or letting things "play out".

 
Carson has 7 fumbles in 11 games this year. 

7 is a huge number of fumbles in 11 games. 

You have to go back to 2003 to find a running back with more than 8 in a season (Tiki Barber).  Only a handful of backs have managed 8 in a season over the past decade plus. 

You can go back to the 90s and not find ANYONE with more than 9 fumbles in a season. 

Basically it appears that history says fumbling in more than 50 percent of your games means you can't be trusted and won't be on the field. 

 
Penny was my favorite back outside of Saquon last year. The continued Eddie Lacy’ing of his conditioning is a trend at this point. Even if he is somehow able to take hold of a significant share in the last 1/4 of the season how can you believe him about his conditioning this offseason? This last offseason was all about him being down to <230, working out with Marshall Faulk... blah, blah, blah. He comes out yesterday and says he stopped eating McDonalds during the season and got a nutritionist and is down to 230 from 238. It’s just unacceptable at this point. He clearly has big play ability he’s displayed in both his pro seasons, he also clearly doesn’t have the work ethic needed to match that ability. 

 
What's going on is that Carson has 7 fumbles in 11 games. If you believe that the coaching staff will continue to abide that situation and it will not affect Carson's workload, that's a reasonable opinion but this isn't about overaction or letting things "play out".
I can agree with that. And yep, not a pretty number for Carson. 

Btw, when looking at last week’s Seahawk news moments ago, looks like one of the coaches said they wanted to use their RBs more, not just Carson only. (Anyone on here do let me know if I’m right or wrong about that.) Today on radio, Pete said he saw something with Penny during last week’s practices. There are also more encouraging comments by Pete regarding Penny. (Source is Gregg Bell from Twitter.) Anyway, we are getting some answers by waiting a day, into Pete’s thinking. I know, good luck with that one! 

 
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Penny was my favorite back outside of Saquon last year. The continued Eddie Lacy’ing of his conditioning is a trend at this point. Even if he is somehow able to take hold of a significant share in the last 1/4 of the season how can you believe him about his conditioning this offseason? This last offseason was all about him being down to <230, working out with Marshall Faulk... blah, blah, blah. He comes out yesterday and says he stopped eating McDonalds during the season and got a nutritionist and is down to 230 from 238. It’s just unacceptable at this point. He clearly has big play ability he’s displayed in both his pro seasons, he also clearly doesn’t have the work ethic needed to match that ability. 
This was something that stunned me.  I was a huge Penny truther last year and loved what I saw of him in college.  I don't get to see Seattle much, they were on a few weeks ago and couldn't believe how fat he looked.  This explains it all to me.  In the NFL everyone around you is elite and operating close to 100%, and if you're carrying extra pounds and only operating at 92% you're gonna get smoked.

 
Carson has 7 fumbles in 11 games this year. 

7 is a huge number of fumbles in 11 games. 

You have to go back to 2003 to find a running back with more than 8 in a season (Tiki Barber).  Only a handful of backs have managed 8 in a season over the past decade plus. 

You can go back to the 90s and not find ANYONE with more than 9 fumbles in a season. 

Basically it appears that history says fumbling in more than 50 percent of your games means you can't be trusted and won't be on the field.
Carson is actually responsible for 9 fumbles. 2 of them were attributed to Wilson because Carson never had possession... but that was because in both cases he was unable to cleanly take a simple handoff. (ETA: the one yesterday was apparently because Carson didn't realize Wilson changed the play at the line.)

Now combine that with Penny's performance yesterday, and I think it is obvious Carson will lose ground to Penny this week. What happens beyond this week depends on how they both play.

 
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Truth is I saw Penny whiff on pass protection and Carson didn’t. That will matter. People forget Penny has put the ball on the ground. (As has Wilson, as have the receivers). 
Penny did look good yesterday. Massive hole caught the Eagles by surprise with bad angles. We’ll see if he can continue. It will be a split but looking at Carson’s multiple 20 carry 100+ yard game and still showing strong burst there is no way he sits on the pine. My bet is Penny reverts to most of his 2018-2019 form. I’ll let him have more carries vs the Vikings. 

 
Truth is I saw Penny whiff on pass protection and Carson didn’t. That will matter. People forget Penny has put the ball on the ground. (As has Wilson, as have the receivers). 
Penny did look good yesterday. Massive hole caught the Eagles by surprise with bad angles. We’ll see if he can continue. It will be a split but looking at Carson’s multiple 20 carry 100+ yard game and still showing strong burst there is no way he sits on the pine. My bet is Penny reverts to most of his 2018-2019 form. I’ll let him have more carries vs the Vikings. 
What about the fumbles? 

 
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Yeah, the "I finally quit McD's and mom's lasagna" thing is worrisome. There's always a chance he's just a kid with a family and highschool/college programs that never pushed proper "elite athlete" required nutrition. Lacy is looking like a good comp... hopefully that changes.

 
looking at Carson’s multiple 20 carry 100+ yard game and still showing strong burst there is no way he sits on the pine
OK. As of today, he is responsible for 9 fumbles in 11 games. You say no way that is enough that he loses his role.

What if he fumbles again next game? Twice? How many would it take to change your mind?

 
Carson has 7 fumbles in 11 games this year. 

7 is a huge number of fumbles in 11 games. 

You have to go back to 2003 to find a running back with more than 8 in a season (Tiki Barber).  Only a handful of backs have managed 8 in a season over the past decade plus. 

You can go back to the 90s and not find ANYONE with more than 9 fumbles in a season. 

Basically it appears that history says fumbling in more than 50 percent of your games means you can't be trusted and won't be on the field. 
I think this may be a situation where, while it is an alarming number, it may be overplayed and too scrutinized.  It's been beat on and put under the microscope but sometimes things happen at different points in a players careers.  Most players, even great ones, go through ugly spots.  Didn't Eli Manning lead the league in interceptions in the same year the Giants won the super bowl?   

I think the Seahawks need to sit down and think about what they think they really have in Carson (which,in my opinion, is a very good player who has proven he can help this team win games).  If were the decision maker, I think I would support him and get what I know we can from him.

 
I think this may be a situation where, while it is an alarming number, it may be overplayed and too scrutinized.  It's been beat on and put under the microscope but sometimes things happen at different points in a players careers.  Most players, even great ones, go through ugly spots.  Didn't Eli Manning lead the league in interceptions in the same year the Giants won the super bowl?   

I think the Seahawks need to sit down and think about what they think they really have in Carson (which,in my opinion, is a very good player who has proven he can help this team win games).  If were the decision maker, I think I would support him and get what I know we can from him.
This would be Carson's 3rd fumble ugly spot, 1 in 2018, 1 at the beginning of the season, and a third one now. 

 
This same thing happened last year in week 10. Nothing came from it for over a whole year. I'm not anticipating anything coming from this. Sell.

 
People acting like 1) Chris Carson is somehow special and 2) like he could have made that run last week. He can’t do what Penny can if the dude just acted like a pro football player instead of a pro eating contest participant this wouldn’t be close. Carson runs over 190lb DB’s though so that must mean he’s good.

 
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People acting like 1) Chris Carson is somehow special and 2) like he could have made that run last week. 🙄 Guys career long is 25 yards from what I can tell. He can’t do what Penny can if the dude just acted like a pro football player instead of a pro eating contest participant this wouldn’t be close. Carson runs over 190lb DB’s though so that must mean he’s good.
I agree with this but my worry is what Carrol thinks 

 
Truth is I saw Penny whiff on pass protection and Carson didn’t. That will matter. People forget Penny has put the ball on the ground. (As has Wilson, as have the receivers). 
Penny did look good yesterday. Massive hole caught the Eagles by surprise with bad angles. We’ll see if he can continue. It will be a split but looking at Carson’s multiple 20 carry 100+ yard game and still showing strong burst there is no way he sits on the pine. My bet is Penny reverts to most of his 2018-2019 form. I’ll let him have more carries vs the Vikings. 
Carson blew the block in the 49ers game that led to the Wilson/IFedi fumble.

Seahawks used a first rounder on Penny, and have consistently believed in him.   They want him to take over as the lead back.   He's had numerous setbacks, including his hand injury last year, the hamstring this year, and his conditioning issues.   But they are going to keep giving him every opportunity to succeed.

Carson is responsible for 9 fumbles this year.    They love how hard he runs, but quite frankly they know he's just a guy and they aren't good enough to absorb turnovers.   If Penny heats up, he'll continue to get more snaps and more touches.

 
People acting like 1) Chris Carson is somehow special and 2) like he could have made that run last week. He can’t do what Penny can if the dude just acted like a pro football player instead of a pro eating contest participant this wouldn’t be close. Carson runs over 190lb DB’s though so that must mean he’s good.
People acting like 1) we haven’t seen this from Penny before. Week 10 vs LA last year 12 carries over 100 yards long TD. Didn’t sniff more than 8 carries the rest of the way 2) round drafted means anything after somebody has had 2 training camps, hundreds of practices and ample chance to show work ethic, commitment to get in shape, desire, growth. 3) that size or not Penny runs harder/hits harder than Carson. No way 4) Carson can’t break long runs. He may fumble at the end of 49 yard runs, but he can break away too 

 
Hi GB. Do you think that there's a risk that Carson loses the job? 
It’s possible, but the Seattle coaching staff has shown a desire to have a violent RB more than a fast RB through the years. Carson is violent, but not as fast as Penny. Yes, Carson could fumble the job away, but I don’t think we’re there yet. Also, Penny has yet to show me any form of shiftiness that I would like to see. Carson has demonstrated some nimble feet from time to time. 

 
It’s possible, but the Seattle coaching staff has shown a desire to have a violent RB more than a fast RB through the years. Carson is violent, but not as fast as Penny. Yes, Carson could fumble the job away, but I don’t think we’re there yet. Also, Penny has yet to show me any form of shiftiness that I would like to see. Carson has demonstrated some nimble feet from time to time. 
Have they shown a preference for featuring a 'violent' RB or for featuring the best RB they can? Lynch was their best RB for most of Carroll's tenure. Carson has been for the past 2 seasons, so far. How do you know that is a style preference vs. a simple preference for the best player?

 
Have they shown a preference for featuring a 'violent' RB or for featuring the best RB they can? Lynch was their best RB for most of Carroll's tenure. Carson has been for the past 2 seasons, so far. How do you know that is a style preference vs. a simple preference for the best player?
It’s an all encompassing team philosophy. Run the ball, control the clock, rest your defense. Pete Carroll has been fairly consistent with this philosophy and it’s been no secret. They want to out-physical every opponent. Even Rawls at his best was a violent runner too. It’s been a fairly successful formula. As other teams ebb and flow Pete has kept it rolling. 

 
Penny after the game was attributing his improved play to stopping to eat McDonalds and said how hard it was. The kid doesn't get it. If dedicating himself to football and a big goal he reached was to cut out McDonalds he's just not going to be able to compete with the other players in the league that have a real fire. Can Eddy Lacy come in and do some counseling?

 
Seahawks’ Pete Carroll ‘fired up’ about Rashaad Penny’s breakthrough. What does that mean for Chris Carson?

RENTON — As he has done at various points this season — when the unavoidable ball-security questions would pop up about his featured running back — Pete Carroll on Monday was quick to defend Chris Carson.

Then the Seahawks coach just as quickly turned the conversation to his quickest running back — Rashaad Penny.

“Rashaad did great. I’m really fired up for that,” Carroll said of Penny’s breakthroughin Sunday’s 17-9 victory at Philadelphia. “We need his explosiveness. He continues to show up. He has had the real home-run type of style of play. We’ve got to give him chances to bring that to us.”

What does that mean for the running-back position going forward — and specifically for Carson?

Carson was involved in two more fumbles, on back-to-back plays, against the Eagles — the second one officially credited to Russell Wilson on a botched handoff.

That gives Carson a league-high seven fumbles this season, which is three more than any other running back in the NFL. Four of those have resulted in turnovers.

Publicly, Carroll shrugged off Sunday’s fumbles when he was asked if those directly led to more touches for Penny.

“That’s not the case in my mind. The opportunity to play and to contribute is always there in that spot in particular,” Carroll said. “What Chris did yesterday, our offensive lineman knocked the ball out of his hands on the first one. The other one, it was a communication problem. It’s a little different than the guy just dropping the ball all over the place.”

After the game, Wilson took the blame for the miscue on the handoff exchange. The quarterback changed the play to a run at the line of scrimmage — and Carson clearly didn’t hear the audible.

“I just think I have to do a better job of making sure we’re really clear on what we’re trying to do there. I’ll put it on me for sure,” Wilson said.

Carson had eight carries for a season-low 26 yards on Sunday, but a team-high four catches for 31 yards. His 239 touches this season rank sixth in the NFL, and his 1,099 yards from scrimmage rank ninth.

Penny, the 2018 first-round pick, had 14 carries for 129 yards against the Eagles, both career highs. His 58-yard touchdown run in the fourth quarter all but iced the game for the Seahawks, and his 5.9 yards per carry this season are the most by any NFL running back with 50 carries or more (and third overall behind Baltimore QB Lamar Jackson and Arizona QB Kyler Murray).

Penny was coming off a game against the 49ers when he had just two carries — and lost a fumble on his last touch. It was the first fumble of his NFL career.

Last week, Carroll said he was a little surprised Penny hadn’t been more involved in the Seahawks’ offensive plan in previous games.

Now it appears Penny has earned more touches going forward.

“It just seemed like he turned a corner on — well, he did it in a couple different areas,” Carroll said Monday. “His intent to prove that he’s worthy and get his playing time, just the competitiveness of it. He knew Chris was playing really well and doing good stuff. He knew that he needed to put his best foot forward. …

“It wasn’t a surprise that he looked like that. That’s what he’s been looking like. Wish it would’ve shown up a little earlier, but that’s my fault for not getting him in there.”

Adam Jude @A_Jude

Rashaad Penny is No. 1 among NFL running backs in yards per carry (for those with >= 50 carries), and third overall. Russell Wilson is ninth, via pro football ref.
 
Penny after the game was attributing his improved play to stopping to eat McDonalds and said how hard it was. The kid doesn't get it. If dedicating himself to football and a big goal he reached was to cut out McDonalds he's just not going to be able to compete with the other players in the league that have a real fire. Can Eddy Lacy come in and do some counseling?
So he changes his behavior to cut out fast food and you see that as an indication that he doesn't "get it."?

 
So he changes his behavior to cut out fast food and you see that as an indication that he doesn't "get it."?
As an average person I'll admit I struggle to wrap my head around professional athletes who can't stay in shape, especially young ones like Penny who haven't managed to solidify their role.

 
As an average person I'll admit I struggle to wrap my head around professional athletes who can't stay in shape, especially young ones like Penny who haven't managed to solidify their role.
That understandable.  Again, how was that story an indication of him not "getting it"?

 
So he changes his behavior to cut out fast food and you see that as an indication that he doesn't "get it."?
Cutting out McDonald's is sort of an entry level step in terms of maximizing fitness. A pro athlete who just figured that out is way behind the curve. 

If THAT was really hard, you probably have a long, long way to go. 

That means there should be lots of room for improvement on the flip side, if he does "get it" now and eliminating McDonald's is just one of many changes he is making. 

 
Cutting out McDonald's is sort of an entry level step in terms of maximizing fitness. A pro athlete who just figured that out is way behind the curve. 

If THAT was really hard, you probably have a long, long way to go. 

That means there should be lots of room for improvement on the flip side, if he does "get it" now and eliminating McDonald's is just one of many changes he is making. 
So you're thinking that McDonald's is the beginning and the end of his commitment? He's still hitting up Burger King, KFC & Arby's?

 
So you're thinking that McDonald's is the beginning and the end of his commitment? He's still hitting up Burger King, KFC & Arby's?
No.... 

I think if you've just realized you should cut out fast food as a pro athlete, there are probably a million other things that contribute towards fitness that you are yet to "get." 

 
No.... 

I think if you've just realized you should cut out fast food as a pro athlete, there are probably a million other things that contribute towards fitness that you are yet to "get." 
I think there are a lot of things 22 year olds don't get that we think they should.  The fact that he's an athlete is, IMO, irrelevant when it comes to health and nutrition.  Do you and I get a pass on eating healthy and exercising because we're not athletes?  Of course not, it is literally (not figuratively) every bit as important to us as it should be to anyone else on the planet.  In fact, I think with the rigors of their training routines athletes are typically much more able to overcome many negative impacts of eating crappy food.

Good on him for taking this step but I don't see it as some kind of indicator that he isn't "getting" other things he needs to improve to become a better player.  I think it is very likely that recognizing the benefits of eating well suggests there are other things he is looking at to improve.

 
I think there are a lot of things 22 year olds don't get that we think they should.  The fact that he's an athlete is, IMO, irrelevant when it comes to health and nutrition.  Do you and I get a pass on eating healthy and exercising because we're not athletes?  Of course not, it is literally (not figuratively) every bit as important to us as it should be to anyone else on the planet.  In fact, I think with the rigors of their training routines athletes are typically much more able to overcome many negative impacts of eating crappy food.

Good on him for taking this step but I don't see it as some kind of indicator that he isn't "getting" other things he needs to improve to become a better player.  I think it is very likely that recognizing the benefits of eating well suggests there are other things he is looking at to improve.
Yes, I think the problem is that he's a 22 year old who doesn't get a lot of things yet.  There are plenty of hungry Austin Ekelers out there who don't have the talent, but  have the work ethic and the discipline and will do literally everything in their power to achieve their football goals. 

It's really hard to be elite if you don't do the kinds of things everyone should do, let alone what pro athletes should be and are doing to optimize their bodies. 

 
Yes, I think the problem is that he's a 22 year old who doesn't get a lot of things yet.  There are plenty of hungry Austin Ekelers out there who don't have the talent, but  have the work ethic and the discipline and will do literally everything in their power to achieve their football goals. 

It's really hard to be elite if you don't do the kinds of things everyone should do, let alone what pro athletes should be and are doing to optimize their bodies. 
Absolutely.  Then again it looks like Penny is doing those things, or at least starting to do those things.

This story is nothing but good news.

 
Penny isn't as chubby as last year but he is still chubby.  Look at the 1:00 mark of this video from last week's game.  That is flab on his stomach.  This could be interpreted as a good thing.  He has already been super effective while not being in perfect condition.  If he commits 100% in the offseason to being in tiptop shape, he could be better.

 
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The guys above explained my point pretty well, although was it really necessary?

I'm a dynasty owner, I hope he turns it around but it's just not looking good but it's not like I've dropped him yet.

 
Rashaad Penny rushed 15 times for 74 yards and one touchdown in the Seahawks' 37-30, Week 13 win over the Vikings Monday night, adding 33 yards and a second touchdown on four catches across five targets.

Coach Pete Carroll promised Penny would be more involved after his 14-129-1 rushing performance last week in Seattle, and he stuck to his word. Chris Carson got the start and handled 24 touches of his own, producing 109 yards and one touchdown, but Penny was involved throughout the night and in big-time situations. The Seahawks simply rotated the two backs in a run-dominant game plan that they would love to execute every week. Penny suddenly possesses high-end RB1/2 upside in this offense ahead of a Week 14 road date with the Rams before cushy Weeks 15 and 16 dates with the Panthers and Cardinals.

 
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Didn’t get to watch the second half. He looked good running it in the first half but also the nuance seems lost to him a bit (specifically remembering back to back plays where he missed a chip block then was meandering out in space when Russell wanted to dump it to him). The explosiveness is there, Carson will also continue to be but that may not matter for either if Penny can be used in the passing game.

 
Rashaad Penny left Week 14 against the Rams with a knee injury.

Penny went down at the end of a screen pass on Seattle's opening drive. He was in noticeable pain but limped off slowly on his own. The Seahawks quickly ruled out Penny, so this is a serious injury. Chris Carson will have an every-down role with Penny out.

Dec 8, 2019, 8:36 PM ET

 
According to NFL Network's Ian Rapoport, it "appears" Rashaad Penny will miss the remainder of 2019 with a knee injury suffered in Sunday's Week 14 loss to the Rams.

Even coach Pete Carroll, who is well-known for his "glass half-full" approach to injuries, didn't sound optimistic about this one, calling Penny's knee injury "significant." Penny is believed to have suffered an ACL sprain, though the Seahawks won't know for sure until he undergoes more tests. The 2018 first-rounder showed promise this year, contributing an electric 5.7 yards per carry while working in tandem with Chris Carson. With Penny's injury likely of the season-ending variety, the Seahawks will move forward with Carson as their workhorse with C.J. Prosise operating in a change-of-pace capacity. Already over 1,000 yards rushing for the year, Carson should be an RB1 the rest of the way.

 
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Coach Pete Carroll confirmed Rashaad Penny (knee) will miss the remainder of the 2019 season.

Penny injured his ACL in the Seahawks' Week 14 loss to the Rams. Carroll said he hasn’t heard about the MRI results, but that the doctors "could tell it's a significant injury." His absence will lead to a featured role for Chris Carson, who is set up as well as possible in Week 15 against the Panthers' atrocious run defense.

SOURCE: Brady Henderson on Twitter

Dec 9, 2019, 4:22 PM ET

 
I don't think being grounded for a lengthy period of time is going to be good for this guy who already has a hard time staying in shape. 
Yep... I think this dream is dead. Best case scenario is probably some split in late 2020 and beyond. Doubt he’ll ever catch on as a workhorse now.

 

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