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The Obama Conspiracy to take down POTUS (1 Viewer)

I think it's a good exercise on how us normals can avoid falling into being brainwashed.  Plus fiction can be fun sometimes.

 
Details of Operation Crossfire Hurricane we're leaked to the totally fake and failing NY Times last week because the AG will be releasing a report on Hillary soon.  Deep State wanted to get ahead of the news and frame the debate in a way that makes them look good, but in dowing so completely demonstrated the depth of their spying...it's now clear that they had multiple moles imbedded in the Trump campaign, and in no way have confused whistleblowers (traitors) with undercover spy's.

 
Can we discuss the conspiracy to create the Deep State conspiracy theory? Who started it. We know the key players that created the current fake news or fake conspiracy of liberals trying to take out Trump is headed by Sean H, Rudy G and the Donald himself. 

 
lazyike said:
Can we discuss the conspiracy to create the Deep State conspiracy theory? Who started it. We know the key players that created the current fake news or fake conspiracy of liberals trying to take out Trump is headed by Sean H, Rudy G and the Donald himself. 
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Thinks more like Mercer and the Koch brothers.  

 
lazyike said:
Can we discuss the conspiracy to create the Deep State conspiracy theory? Who started it. We know the key players that created the current fake news or fake conspiracy of liberals trying to take out Trump is headed by Sean H, Rudy G and the Donald himself. 
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Russia and Wikileaks. It all pretty much started with the Seth Rich conspiracy.

 
lazyike said:
Can we discuss the conspiracy to create the Deep State conspiracy theory? Who started it. We know the key players that created the current fake news or fake conspiracy of liberals trying to take out Trump is headed by Sean H, Rudy G and the Donald himself. 
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Maybe it all started with Hillary's comment that there was a vast right-wing conspiracy.  She planted the seed all those years ago and people on the right go "Hey! That's not a bad idea!"  /sarcasm

 
When was the last time the democrats lost an election and there wasn't a conspiracy involved?  With Trump it was Russia, with Reagan it was the hostages, with Bush it was something to do with hanging chads.

 
Riversco said:
When was the last time the democrats lost an election and there wasn't a conspiracy involved?  With Trump it was Russia, with Reagan it was the hostages, with Bush it was something to do with hanging chads.
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Not sure I would consider the hanging chads a conspiracy, just a silly voting operation that was dysfunctional. 

 
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Riversco said:
When was the last time the democrats lost an election and there wasn't a conspiracy involved?  With Trump it was Russia, with Reagan it was the hostages, with Bush it was something to do with hanging chads.
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When was the last time a Republican could win an election without outside help?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Good one from Opie here.

The Obama administration clearly wanted the Russians to interfere because that would help Trump.

[pause]

Wait... let me start over...
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I'm not sure you have that right.  I don't think @Opie is claiming Obama wanted the Russian help, it's more that Obama wanted Trump spied on and the Russian bit is all a cover...justification conjured up after the fact to explain how Trump beat Clinton even though no one thought he could.

 
@Ditka Butkus can we just discuss this here? I just feel like this is too busy for the Russian thread.

Was this the plan?

Lynch and Bill Clinton meet on a plane and devise a way to infiltrate Trump's campaign. It was all Clinton's idea but Lynch has to carry it forward.

Lynch brings it to Obama and Comey. Oh hell yes they're in, low risk, all upside.

Convince foreign adversaries and at best sketchy unreliable characters like Russian spies and oligarchs, plus also Arab princes and their money men to set up meetings at Trump Tower, the Russian embassy, etc.

Meanwhile get agents - who have sworn themselves to the Constitution and dedicated their lives to fighting terrorists, white collar criminals, corrupt politicians, and spies -  in on the plan against this Republican president who wants to stop Isis, end illegal immigration and bomb the #### out of terrorists.

Get them to work up Papadopoulis, Page and Flynn. Then get them to really fall into some bad suggestions.

Watch as Trump’s kids, campaign advisors, foreign policy experts and loyal servants like Cohen meet repeatedly with foreign adversaries and swamp peddlers.

Invite the contacts to tea and walks in the park, lunch, that kind of thing.

Wait some more. Do nothing, say nothing - to anyone.

Watch as Trump gets elected. NOW the trap is sprung.

Don't reveal any of the compromising information you've gathered. Still, it's still too early. Wait some more.

Watch the inauguration. Wait some more...

TRICK Trump into firing Comey. This is done by getting well known Deep Blue Democrat Republican Rod Rosenstein to write a memo which will convince Trump he must act against Comey.

Bring in Republican Bob Mueller to handle the inquiry so no one will challenge his credentials.

Then: Profit.

Is this pretty much it?

 
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Several of the people under investigation were already under investigation well before they began working on the Trump campaign. You have to move your timeline back quite a bit.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
@Ditka Butkus can we just discuss this here? I just feel like this is too busy for the Russian thread.

Was this the plan?

Lynch and Bill Clinton meet on a plane and devise a way to infiltrate Trump's campaign. It was all Clinton's idea but Lynch has to carry it forward.

Lynch brings it to Obama and Comey. Oh hell yes they're in, low risk, all upside.

Convince foreign adversaries and at best sketchy unreliable characters like Russian spies and oligarchs, plus also Arab princes and their money men to set up meetings at Trump Tower, the Russian embassy, etc.

Meanwhile get agents - who have sworn themselves to the Constitution and dedicated their lives to fighting terrorists, white collar criminals, corrupt politicians, and spies -  in on the plan against this Republican president who wants to stop Isis, end illegal immigration and bomb the #### out of terrorists.

Get them to work up Papadopoulis, Page and Flynn. Then get them to really fall into some bad suggestions.

Watch as Trump’s kids, campaign advisors, foreign policy experts and loyal servants like Cohen meet repeatedly with foreign adversaries and swamp peddlers.

Invite the contacts to tea and walks in the park, lunch, that kind of thing.

Wait some more. Do nothing, say nothing - to anyone.

Watch as Trump gets elected. NOW the trap is sprung.

Don't reveal any of the compromising information you've gathered. Still, it's still too early. Wait some more.

Watch the inauguration. Wait some more...

TRICK Trump into firing Comey. This is done by getting well known Deep Blue Democrat Republican Rod Rosenstein to write a memo which will convince Trump he must act against Comey.

Bring in Republican Bob Mueller to handle the inquiry so no one will challenge his credentials.

Then: Profit.

Is this pretty much it?
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Well, when you say it that way...it just sounds so silly.

 
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Don't Noonan said:
Well, that is what we are attempting to find out.  Patience grasshopper
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Honestly thanks for the response, at least.

Since we're here and for Moleculo's list another thing that puzzles me is the 'Russians colluded with Hillary and the DNC' claim.

I get that the DNC paid Marc Elias who works for Perkins Coie who among other campaign legal work paid Fusion for the dossier, what I don't get is how they convinced Russians to cooperate with the former head of the MI6 Russian Bureau to craft a narrative to frame Trump.

And which Russians were these? I feel like I'm wrapping my head through a hurricane fence even imagining how that would work.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
@Ditka Butkus can we just discuss this here? I just feel like this is too busy for the Russian thread.

Was this the plan?

Lynch and Bill Clinton meet on a plane and devise a way to infiltrate Trump's campaign. It was all Clinton's idea but Lynch has to carry it forward.

Lynch brings it to Obama and Comey. Oh hell yes they're in, low risk, all upside.

Convince foreign adversaries and at best sketchy unreliable characters like Russian spies and oligarchs, plus also Arab princes and their money men to set up meetings at Trump Tower, the Russian embassy, etc.

Meanwhile get agents - who have sworn themselves to the Constitution and dedicated their lives to fighting terrorists, white collar criminals, corrupt politicians, and spies -  in on the plan against this Republican president who wants to stop Isis, end illegal immigration and bomb the #### out of terrorists.

Get them to work up Papadopoulis, Page and Flynn. Then get them to really fall into some bad suggestions.

Watch as Trump’s kids, campaign advisors, foreign policy experts and loyal servants like Cohen meet repeatedly with foreign adversaries and swamp peddlers.

Invite the contacts to tea and walks in the park, lunch, that kind of thing.

Wait some more. Do nothing, say nothing - to anyone.

Watch as Trump gets elected. NOW the trap is sprung.

Don't reveal any of the compromising information you've gathered. Still, it's still too early. Wait some more.

Watch the inauguration. Wait some more...

TRICK Trump into firing Comey. This is done by getting well known Deep Blue Democrat Republican Rod Rosenstein to write a memo which will convince Trump he must act against Comey.

Bring in Republican Bob Mueller to handle the inquiry so no one will challenge his credentials.

Then: Profit.

Is this pretty much it?
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I simply asked which would be a worse scenario...A DOJ member or a foreign country meddling in an election...It was meant to be thought- provoking nothing more...

 
By the way, I just stumbled on to this site, which has a wonderful timeline of pertinent events in case you need help keeping track of what happened when. For instance you can see that the FBI began monitoring Carter Page in summer 2014, and then Carter Page joined the Trump campaign (bringing that monitoring with him) as a foreign policy advisor in March 2016.

You can also see fun quotes like this one from Eric Trump (back in 2014): "We have all the funding we need from Russia." 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Honestly thanks for the response, at least.

Since we're here and for Moleculo's list another thing that puzzles me is the 'Russians colluded with Hillary and the DNC' claim.

I get that the DNC paid Marc Elias who works for Perkins Coie who among other campaign legal work paid Fusion for the dossier, what I don't get is how they convinced Russians to cooperate with the former head of the MI6 Russian Bureau to craft a narrative to frame Trump.

And which Russians were these? I feel like I'm wrapping my head through a hurricane fence even imagining how that would work.
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I'm having a real hard time even understanding what the hell that means.  As near as I can tell, it's pretty much on the same level of a toddler accusing his mother of not eating her dinner.

 
Gr00vus said:
By the way, I just stumbled on to this site, which has a wonderful timeline of pertinent events in case you need help keeping track of what happened when. For instance you can see that the FBI began monitoring Carter Page in summer 2014, and then Carter Page joined the Trump campaign (bringing that monitoring with him) as a foreign policy advisor in March 2016.

You can also see fun quotes like this one from Eric Trump (back in 2014): "We have all the funding we need from Russia." 
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awesome.  That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to do, but much better.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
I simply asked which would be a worse scenario...A DOJ member or a foreign country meddling in an election...It was meant to be thought- provoking nothing more...
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Sorry, I did not mean to be snarky. IMO as a straight up question it's the latter but obviously the former would be horrible.

However I find it hard to engage in such an exercise without imagining how such a thing might happen. A US IC and FBI sworn to protect the country, uphold the Constitution and with a history of avoiding political involvement even to the level of mayoral races seems really hard to imagine doing such a thing. Otoh, a billionaire having 30 years of contact with a foreign government and sketchy business practices seems very easy to contemplate being contacted and pinged by that same foreign government seeking influence.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Sorry, I did not mean to be snarky. IMO as a straight up question it's the latter but obviously the former would be horrible.

However I find it hard to engage in such an exercise without imagining how such a thing might happen. A US IC and FBI sworn to protect the country, uphold the Constitution and with a history of avoiding political involvement even to the level of mayoral races seems really hard to imagine doing such a thing. Otoh, a billionaire having 30 years of contact with a foreign government and sketchy business practices seems very easy to contemplate being contacted and pinged by that same foreign government seeking influence.
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I hear ya...but with a 113,000 members of the DOJ which 35,000 being FBI...there is always a remote chance for corruption...In this day and age nothing would come as a surprise...

 
Is this where we entertain any old hypotheticals that pop into our heads?

What if the whole Benghazi non-thing was really a shoddy undercover Republican job to try and discredit HRC?

 
Gr00vus said:
Is this where we entertain any old hypotheticals that pop into our heads?

What if the whole Benghazi non-thing was really a shoddy undercover Republican job to try and discredit HRC?
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No this is where we talk about things that are being discussed in the news currently ...

 
Ditka Butkus said:
I hear ya...but with a 113,000 members of the DOJ which 35,000 being FBI...there is always a remote chance for corruption...In this day and age nothing would come as a surprise...
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That’s fair. There are bad agents and intel officers just like there are bad cops. But scheming against a president would be an extraordinarily difficult thing. It’s not like keeping a bag of money from a drug bust or something like that.

 
Turns out the conspiracy started much sooner than we were told.

Byron York: When did Trump-Russia probe begin? Investigators focus on mystery months:
 

Revelations that an FBI informant insinuated himself into the Trump campaign have led some congressional investigators to rethink their theories on how and why former President Barack Obama's Justice Department began investigating the 2016 Trump presidential effort.

Most reporting has focused on the July 31, 2016, creation of a document formally marking the beginning of the FBI counterintelligence probe targeting the Trump campaign. The document, known as the electronic communication, or EC, is said to have focused on the case of George Papadopoulos, the peripheral Trump adviser who has pleaded guilty to lying to special counsel Robert Mueller about his contacts with people connected to Russia.

Most of the key events of the Trump-Russia investigation — the Carter Page wiretap, the wiretap of Michael Flynn's conversations, the presentation of Trump dossier allegations to the president-elect — took place after the formal start of the FBI counterintelligence investigation.

But now comes word of the FBI informant, described in various accounts as a retired American professor living in England. The Washington Post reported that, "The professor's interactions with Trump advisers began a few weeks before the opening of the investigation, when Page met the professor at the British symposium."

A few weeks before the opening of the investigation — those are the words that have raised eyebrows among Hill investigators. If it was before the investigation, then what was an FBI informant doing gathering undercover information when there was not yet an investigation?

The question has pointed investigators back to the issue of when the probe began — not when a piece of paper was formally signed but when the FBI, and perhaps other U.S. intelligence agencies, began investigating the Trump campaign.

And that has taken them back to March 21, 2016, when candidate Donald Trump met with the editorial board of the Washington Post.

At the time of that meeting, Trump had been under criticism for not having the sort of lists of distinguished advisers that most top-level campaigns routinely assemble. That was particularly true in the area of foreign policy. A frustrated Trump ordered his team to compile a list of foreign-affairs advisers.

Trump was preparing to announce his advisory board when he met with the Post. The paper's publisher asked Trump if he would reveal the names of his new team.

"Well, I hadn't thought of doing it, but if you want I can give you some of the names," Trump said. He then read a brief list, among them Page and Papadopoulos.

Trump's announcement did not go unnoticed at the FBI and Justice Department. The bureau knew Page from a previous episode in which Russian agents had tried, unsuccessfully, to recruit him. It's not clear what the FBI knew about the others. But then-Director James Comey and number-two Andrew McCabe personally briefed Attorney General Loretta Lynch on the list of newly-named Trump foreign policy advisers, including Page, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

Lynch told the House Intelligence Committee that she, Comey, and McCabe discussed whether to provide a "defensive briefing" to the Trump campaign. That would entail having an FBI official meet with a senior campaign official "to alert them to the fact that … there may be efforts to compromise someone with their campaign," Lynch said.

It didn't happen, even though it was discussed again when Comey briefed the National Security Council principals committee about Page in the "late spring" of 2016, according to Lynch's testimony. (The principals committee includes some of the highest-ranking officials in the government, including the secretaries of State, Treasury, Defense, and Homeland Security, the attorney general, the head of the CIA, the White House chief of staff, U.N. ambassador, and more.)

So the nation's top political appointees, law enforcement, and intelligence agencies were watching Trump campaign figures in the spring and early summer of 2016.

In early July, Trump dossier author Christopher Steele, the former British spy, approached the FBI with the first installment of the dossier. (It was the part that alleged Trump took part in a kinky sex scene with prostitutes in a Moscow hotel in 2013.) Also in early July — just a few days later — Page made a much-watched trip to deliver a speech in Moscow. Also in July, FBI officials say they learned about Papadopoulos' meeting a few months earlier with a Russian-connected professor. And still in July, hacked emails from the Democratic National Committee were released.

Somewhere around the time all that was happening, according to the latest reporting, the FBI informant began his work.

And that was all before what is called the formal beginning of the Trump-Russia investigation. It is in those mystery months — late March, April, May, June, and early July of 2016 — with the presidential campaign going at full force, that the Obama administration's surveillance of the Republican candidate geared up.
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Don't you all see?  Obama was spying on trump much earlier than the Deep State has told you!!!  Isn't it so obvious that this was all politically motivated?  I mean, Team Trump naming coffee boy Carter Page - That's what kicked this all of??  Which Hunt!  No collusion!

What we really need to know is how many people formerly under counter-intelligence surveillance did Clinton have on her team?  That's the real question.  Why is no one asking that?

 
"Why didn't the FBI warn us that Carter Page was a potential spy who was being groomed by Russia?!?"

("Because then we would have given him a more prominent role in the campaign...")

 
On Rush right now: Obama administration spies implemented the collusion!  

If the FBI was actually trying to help Trump campaign, why not warm Trump?  

 
moleculo said:
In this thread, we are going to attempt to understand how the Obama Deep State worked with the DoJ, FBI, DNC, NSA, foreign governments, US and foreign press, to take down Trump.

This will be a work in progress.  I will update and edit this post as more information becomes available (i.e. to keep the story straight).

==============

Cast:

Red team:

  • DJT: our stories hero
  • Paul Manafort: DJT's campaign manager.  Originally hired to help secure delegate votes at the convention, as he had done this once before (36 years ago). Also, long history of working with Russian puppets, mostly in Ukraine.
  • Michael Cohen: Trumps long time personal lawyer
  • Fox News: Fair and Balanced.
  • Jeff Sessions.  probably not an elf.
  • Mike Pence: doesn't like gays. 
  • Carter Page: Foreign Policy extraordinaire., especially anything to do with Russia.
  • George Papadopoulos: another foreign Policy extraordinaire.  Not the same Papadopoulos as Webster.  Originally on Ben Carsons team.
  • Sam Clovis - description TBD
  • Steve Bannon - description TBD
  • Don Trump Jr.  Presidents son, obviously.
Blue Team:

  • Barrack Obama: former POTUS.  Hero of the Main Steam Media, Still head of the Deep State.
  • Jim Comey: really tall director of FBI.  Despite being a life-long republican, Comey is a Deep State.  Appointed by GWB to be AG, SDNY and deputy AG.  turned Deep State when appointed by Obama  to head the FBI.
  • Bob Mueller.  appointed by Ron Reagan to be US attorney, GHWB to be US assistant AG, GWB to be deputy AG, and head of FBI.  Was never appointed by a democrat to do anything so it's not clear when he turned Deep State.
  • CNN/MSNBC/NY Times/Washington Post: Totally Fake Main Steam Media (MSM)
  • Hillary Clinton: probably the devil. 
  • James Clapper - a perjurer and war criminal.  Also, named director of defense intelligence agency by GHWB, director of National Geospatial intelligence agency by GWB.  Turned Deep State when named undersecretary of defense for intelligence and then DNI by Obama.
  • John Podesta - description TBD
  • Alexander Downer: Australian diplomat and probably a Clinton Foundation donor.
  • fusion GPS: law firm hired by HRC to dig up dirt on DJT.
  • John Brennan: named director of national counterterrorism center by GWB.  turned Deep State when named homeland Security Advisor and director of CIA by Obama.
  • Peter Strzok and Lisa Page: Deep State FBI plants and immoral adulterers who steered the Mueller Investigation towards a baseless anti-Trump direction, and whose snarky texts exposed the entire witch hunt for what it is.
  • Loretta Lynch: Obama's attorney General.  Involved with Hillary e-mail scandal (not DNC hacked one, the other email scandal).
  • Stefan Halper: Foreign policy scholar, CIA insider.  Long history with Bushes.  Ran spying operation for Ron Reagan campaign in 1980.
Others - Allegiance unknown:

  • Joseph Mifsud - Maltese professor with connections to Putin.  May be the FBI's mole.
  • Cozy Bear/Fancy Bear: allegedly Russian State hackers but maybe not.
  • Vladimir Putin - leader of Russia.  doing a tremendous job.  You can tell by how often he is re-elected, by large margins, in totally legitimate elections.
  • Julian Assange - WikiLeaks guy.  Holed up in an Ecuadorian embassy, hiding from extradition.
  • Cambridge Analytica:
  • Rob Goldstone - Russian music agent.  ties to Trump from Ms Universe pagents.
  • Natalia Veselnitskaya - Russian Agent
  • Christopher Steele: may or may not be James Bond.  He probably can't say either way.  Hired by Fusion GPS.
  • John McCain: American Hero.
  • Anthony Weiner - description TBD
  •  
===============

timeline: (much better timeline than mine here)

  • 2015: Natalia Veselnitskaya first granted special entry visa at the request of Loretta Lynches justice department.
  • ?/2015:DNC hacked by "Cozy Bear".
  •  6/2015: Trump announces election bid.
  • 9/16/2015: Strzok calls Trump and Sanders Idiots.
  • 10/2015: Conservative media company hires Fusion GPS to conduct opposition research on DJT.
  • 2/2016: Veselnitskaya again granted special entry visa at the request of Loretta Lynches justice department.
  • 3/4/2016: Strzok and Page debate if trump or Cruz would be worse.  Also, "God, Hillary should win 100,000,000 – 0"
  • 3/14/2016: Mifsud first meets Papadopoulos.
  • 3/21/2016: Trump formally names Papadopoulos and Page to his foreign policy team.  Loretta Lynch/Andy McCabe/James Comey take note, informal start to Trump investigation.
  • 4/2016: DNC hacked by "Fancy Bear"
  • 4/2016: Clinton Campaign hires Fusion GPS for opposition research.
  • 4/26/2016: Mifsud tells Papadopoulos that Putin has dirt on Hillary in the form of thousands of emails.
  • 5/4/2016: Trump becomes presumptive nominee.
  • 5/2016: Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear expelled from DNC server, ending hacking operation.
  • 5/2016: Papadopoulos tells Downer about emails in a London bar.
  • 6/2016: fusion GPS hires Steele.
  • 6/9/2016: DJT Jr meets with Goldstone and Veselnitskaya Re: Magitnisky act and dirt on Hillary.
  • 6/20/2016: Trump hires Manafort to run his campaign.
  • 7/2016: FBG Bob Magaw is so concerned with Trumps Russian connections, he starts a thread in the FFA on it.
  • 7/8/2016: Carter Page travels to Moscow for business reasons, completely unrelated to campaign.
  • 7/2016: Steele approached FBI, concerned that Trump was being blackmailed by Russia.
  • 7/2016: Carter Page returns from Russia, meets with Stefan Halper, noted CIA mole.
  • 7/19/2016: Trump secures nomination
  • 7/22: DNC emails leaked by Wikileaks
  • 7/26: Stefan Halper paid nearly $130k by DoD.
  • 7/27: Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.  I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”
  • 7/31: Operation Crossfire Hurricane formally begins.
  • 7-8/2016: Downer goes to FBI, rats on Papadopoulos.  Trump investigation officially starts.
  • 9/2016: US intelligence officials investigate Carter Pages contacts with sanctioned Russian Companies.  Page steps down from campaign.
  • 9/2016: Halper meets with Papadopoulos, 
  • 9/15: Strzok texts Page: "I want to believe the path you threw out for consideration in Andy's office that there's no way Trump gets elected—but I'm afraid we can't take that risk. It's like an insurance policy in the unlikely event you die before you're 40 ... " 
  • 9/27/2016: Halper paid ~$280k by DoD
  • 10/7/2016: "Grab 'em by the #####"
  • 10/2016: FISC warrant issued to surveil former staffer Carter Page.
  • 11/9/2016: Trump wins election.
  • 11/2016: Steele's dossier completed
  • 11/18/2016: dossier revealed to McCain
  • 12/2016: additional memo added to dossier
  • 12/9/2016: Dossier handed to John McCain.
  • 1/9/2017: FBG thread disappears under suspicious circumstances.  Whoknew starts another one.
============

Operating Theory (to be updated as the theory develops):

5/17/2018:

Misfud, the professor linked to Putin, was also actually working with  MI6.  He told Papadopoulos about the hacked e-mails.  (the DNC was probably hacked by the a 400 lb guy in his moms basement in New Jersey, not Russia).  Misfud then arranged for Papadopoulos to travel to London and got Papadopoulos liquored up in the same bar as Downer, who he blabbed to.  Downer, being a Clinton acolyte, took that info to the FBI eventually, which sparked the investigation.  Stefan Halper, while working for the CIA,  met with Page, Papadopoulos, - he was spying on the campaign purely for political purposes.  This is, at the same time, the biggest political scandal of all time, but also meaningless because Papadopoulos and Page were basically coffee boys.

The whole point of the entire operation was to mask the fact that the Deep State was spying on the Trump campaign.  As a secondary objective, the operation could be used to sabotage the Trump presidency in the unlikely event that Trump won.

It's especially ingenious in that the operation began well before Trump secured the nomination.  The DNC hacking may have even happened before Trump announced his candidacy, but in truth, the DNC email trap would have been sprung on which ever RNC candidate won.

===============

Change Log:

  • 5/17/2018: ORIGINAL RELEASE
  • 5/17/2018: added description for Clapper and Brennan, added Peter Strzok and Lisa Page and texts, Loretta Lynch.  Misfud works with MI6, not CIA.
  • 5/19: fleshed out Stefan Halpers involvement.  Updates in blue.
  • 5/22: added Trump naming Papadopoulos/Page, Lynch takes note, Crossffire Hurricane begins.
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Quoting this so we can all come back and laugh at you (assuming that this is a troll thread mocking people who dare to disagree with the radical left).

 
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ren hoek said:
Hey.  Resident conspiracy theorist here.  It's been too long since I've been shamed, gaslighted and called a traitor for disagreeing about Russia.

@Dedfin had asked a while back for a rundown on why I think the Russian conspiracy is bogus. I've considered that question for a long time.  This is most of the stuff I have a problem with personally.  Basically for me it begins and ends with the "hack".  I have some real serious reservations about taking the US government on faith.  After its work (and the media's work) manufacturing consent for Iraq, intelligence officials lying to Congress over and over again- with regard to their own intelligence, its actions abroad, about torture, domestic surveillance on US citizens, etc.- they have destroyed their credibility forever.  In lieu of truly independent confirmation, I struggle with the herd mentality acceptance of the hacking attribution.  

-Guccifer 2.0: 

  • After the CrowdStrike report, Guccifer 2.0 went on the offensive to take credit. As a result, his blog and twitter accounts (at the time) were new and lack historical substantiation. 
  • The documents he posted online were a mixture of some from the public domain (eg. already been published by OpenSecrets.org in 2009), were manipulated copies of research documents originally created by Lauren Dillon (see attachments) and others or were legitimate, unique documents that were of little significant damage to the DNC. (Such as the DCCC documents)
  • Left comically obvious 'fingerprints' of Russian identity, belying the notion of a sophisticated state hacker.  The "evidence" that he's Russian, should be understood in the following context:
    He CHOSE to name his computer account after the founder of the Soviet Secret Police.

    He CHOSE to create/open and then save documents so the Russian name was written to metadata.

    He CHOSE to use a Russian VPN service to cloak his IP address.

    He CHOSE to use public web-based email services that would forward his cloaked IP. 

    He CHOSE to use the above to contact various media outlets on the same day.

    Guccifer2.0 covered himself and the files in the digital equivalent of "Made In Russia" labels while claiming to be a Romanian. (Giving cyber-security firms, journalists and others a flimsy veil they could easily pull off and find Russian "fingerprints" behind)
  • Going back to the 4th, the supposed "Clinton Foundation Hack" - is also where his claim starts to show cracks.

    He stated "I can’t post all databases here for they’re too large. I’m looking for a better way to release them now.".

    Why, if he was really the source for the DNC emails, would he be at all struggling to find a solution to get the data published? - Why express this 73 days after the last large batch of data he claims to have acquired was successfully published through Wikileaks?
  • As it stands now, none of the Guccifer 2.0 breach details can be independently verified, and if he is indeed an independent actor, he claims to have much stronger technical capabilities than that of his “BEAR” neighbors who were freely operating within the DNC, and are purportedly associated with the Russian Main Intelligence Directorate (GRU) and the Foreign Intelligence Service (FSB). (link)
  • Reading: http://g-2.space/, https://www.threatconnect.com/blog/guccifer-2-0-dnc-breach/#breadcrumbs.  I'd like to qualify the g2.space page by granting that it does link to some rather conspiracy-indulging places on the internet, but there is still a lot of useful information there, particularly the timeline and links to several other articles of note.  
  • Just personal editorializing, I struggle with the notion that a subversive hacker of some sort would base their identity off another hacker and have such a boring persona.  Compare Guccifer 2.0 to LulzSec, Anonymous, etc.  Looking at the timeline on g-2.space, it's as if it were an alias created within days to confirm Crowdstrike reporting, control attribution of the hack (leak), and muddy the waters.  His writings seem like a caricature of what a boomer thinks a hacker would write ("#### the Illuminati and their conspiracies!!!!!!!!!"), not a thoughtful or cerebral type as these sorts usually are.  
  • Why, if the Russian government hacked the DNC, bother creating such a thinly veiled alias that would make it so plainly easy to attribute it to Russia?  Why not just publish directly to Wikileaks and be done with it, avoiding any unnecessary attribution at all?
-CrowdStrike:

  • The cyber security firm outsourced by the Democratic National Committee, CrowdStrike, reportedly misread data, falsely attributing a hacking in Ukraine to the Russians in December 2016.
  • FBI denied access to server
  • DHS denied access to server
  • “If the White House had unclassified evidence that tied officials in the Russian government to the DNC attack, they would have presented it by now. The fact that they didn’t means either that the evidence doesn’t exist or that it is classified,” he wrote in a Medium post on December 30, 2016, while Obama was still in office. “If it’s classified, an independent commission should review it because this entire assignment of blame against the Russian government is looking more and more like a domestic political operation run by the White House that relied heavily on questionable intelligence generated by a for-profit cybersecurity firm with a vested interest in selling ‘attribution-as-a-service.'” (link)
  • Both of the main drivers linking Trump to Russia- the Steele dossier and Crowdstrike report- were paid for by the DNC.  (link)
  • Run by virulently anti-Putin Russian, senior fellow of NatSec NATO blob Atlantic Council, Dmitri Alperovitch.
  • Co-founded by Shawn Henry, former executive assistant director (EAD) of the Criminal, Cyber, Response, and Services Branch (CCRSB) under Robert Mueller.
-Fusion GPS

-Wikileaks

  • Nonexistent link between Wikileaks and Russia/Guccifer2.  Assange has stated unequivocally source was not a state actor.  (link)
  • The conclusions of the intelligence community with respect to Russian hacking were not conclusive regarding Wikileaks (link)
  • If special counsel were interested in finding the facts, why make no effort to speak to the actual publisher of the leaks?
  • If the publisher claims to have proof going one way or the other, why not bother to look at it?  (link)
  • Audio of Seymour Hersh discussing Seth Rich/Wikileaks.  Not saying it's necessarily what happened, but it is a thing so :shrug:.  (link) 
-Robert Mueller

-Hillary Clinton

  • Clear destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice, immunity deals tossed out like candy, 'first precedent' investigative practice, laughably narrow angle of proving "intent," zero prosecution.  
  • Soon after Clinton’s defeat, top strategists decided where to place the blame. “Within 24 hours of her concession speech,” the authors report, campaign manager Robby Mook and campaign chair John Podesta “assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn’t entirely on the up-and-up. For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument.” (link)
  • Implicated in Russian bribery plot unearthed by FBI: http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration
  • "Secretary Clinton’s top vulnerability tested in this poll is the attack that claims as Secretary of State she signed off on a deal that gave the Russian government control over twenty percent of America's uranium production, after investors in the deal donated over one hundred and forty million dollars to the Clinton Foundation. Half of all likely voters (53%) are less likely to support Clinton after hearing that statement and 17% are much less likely to support her after that statement."  -Clinton's own internal polling (link).
  • Again, just personal editorializing: the billion dollars of influence riding on Hillary Clinton's campaign didn't just go away when Trump became president.  The global geopolitical goals of several transnational corps and billionaires alike had plans inline with a Clinton presidency, certainly some which would go hand in hand with a belligerent policy toward Russia, regime change in Syria, etc.  
  • Obama, to his credit, mostly downplayed the Russian threat.  On his way out of office, without much reason to care about conforming to national security orthodoxy and perhaps indulge an adversarial approach to Russia he felt was destructive, he shrugged off concerns over Russian hacking.  It wasn't until Donald Trump won the election that the narrative really shifted and diplomats were expelled.  So I don't think it's an Obama conspiracy.  And I wouldn't say credulously it's necessarily a Hillary conspiracy.  But there's no denying the Clinton camp had a hand in pushing the narrative (dossier, crowdstrike attribution, post-defeat Russian excuse world tour, etc.).  
-Not one of the indictments is for the DNC hack or the Podesta hack. 

-Not one of the indictments appears to have anything to do with collusion.

-Most of the 'insidious' interactions between Trump admin and Russian officials are more easily explained by general corruption (as opposed to some sort of election collusion), some by just basic run-of-the-mill diplomacy.  Some of the interactions, as with the Flynn case, are explained by collusion with Israel (getting a UN vote in Israel's favor, which Russia declined).  

I know most will disagree.  Fact is, I don't know what happened or why it happened.  But in the meantime, in lieu of something concrete proving otherwise, consider me unconvinced.  

Here's some of my favorite links from the past year:

What We Don't Talk About When We Talk About Russian Hacking

Russia's Plot to Make America Racist

Moderate Rebels Podcast // Puppy memes & Pokemon: How Russiagate went off the rails, with Aaron Maté (Ep. 8)

Russiagate is Excuse for Democratic Party Failure
Click to expand...
Great post. It is nice to see an independent thinker around here, especially one who backs up his thoughts with facts and sources.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NFL2DF said:
Quoting this so we can all come back and laugh at you (assuming that this is a troll thread mocking people who dare to disagree with the radical left).
Click to expand...
Would you care to share what you think happened?

ETA: this is not a troll post.  This is an attempt to truly understand what our friends on the right are thinking.  If you find it to be trolly, maybe you should do some thinking about what you think happened.

 
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