Max Power
Footballguy
If you cant see the smoke, your eyes are closed. Twitter and facebook are doing their best to limit fraud claims. They are out there though with "whistleblower" allegations being documented and presented to the courts.
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TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (14 Viewers)
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Max Power
Footballguy
I think they met that initial burden behind closed doors to Bill Barr. That is the basis for looking into it further.
Max Power
Footballguy
Sidney Powell had made some pretty damning claims about the glitches. She says there is proof, so let's look into it.
how many software “glitches”?
how many rejected ballots?
timschochet
Footballguy
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Max Power
Footballguy
I understand it, but it's a good thing. Everyone should want more secure elections going forward.
There is a process for these things and Trump's team is following the process. I dont see the harm.
There is more harm in the way the MSM and big tech have been acting this past week.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Yep. Lots & lots of smoke.
Again, I believe the vast majority of conservatives want the truth to come out, not "steal" an election.
HellToupee
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
The harm is that if half the nation comes to believe, without evidence, that this election was stolen, it will seriously erode public trust in our system of government.
Max Power
Footballguy
Why do you say without evidence? There was enough shown to launch a DOJ investigation. This is the proper course of action.
Half the nation still thinks Trump colluded with Russia because MSM full on ran with that narrative.
General Malaise
Footballguy
He wrote a letter saying he was going to resign on Dec. 15. I don't think that sat very well with the current SOS. Still, I'd welcome a comprehensive review to ensure accuracy.
Max Power
Footballguy
I dont think firing your election director mid-election instills confidence in the process. The timing is a bad look.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I keep seeing these words and phrases. How do you define these?
Also, what specifically are talking about when you talk about the harm they are causing this past week.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Point of clarity, the DOJ did not launch an investigation. Barr changed the standing DOJ policy to allow for an investigation of fraud if there are "substantial" allegations before the election is certified. The previous rule is that the DOJ would only be involved after certification to avoid the obvious, and now present, conflict of interest of the Executive Branch investigating an active election it is a part of.
To the best of my knowledge, no such investigation has actually been announced and the career DOJ official that oversees those investigations resigned.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
Every bit of evidence has been debunked save maybe one or two votes. I'm happy to read anything you have to show actual evidence. Also, this is no investigation going on (yet).
Are you still claiming that there's potential for widespread fraud, there is widespread fraud or just that you hope there was widespread fraud so Trump can win?
Bamboo Bill
Footballguy
How is what happened this year any different than in 2018 and 2016? Besides who the winner was?
Max Power
Footballguy
MSM is the major networks and newspapers. Big tech is Twitter, Facebook and YouTube.
Big tech is full on sensoring fraud allegations and suspending accounts that go against the current narrative. There is a reason Parlor has become so popular in the last week.
The Fox News calling of Arizona was horrific. Voters were still in line when Fox called it. That decision has resulted in a mass exodus in its core viewership.
YouTube is deleting videos user upload claiming to be exposing fraud. That is unacceptable. We are adults and should be allowed to watch or listen to whatever we want and make our own judgements. I dont need big brother.
Twitter is putting dispute labels on everything. They have gone overboard and are even disputing facts.
A guy like Jimmy Dore is as liberal as they come and does have an anti-media bias at times, but even he can see it.
It's a bad look and a bad look that a large portion of the country disagrees with.
dkp993
Footballguy
That’s a fair point. How is it any different then half the nation thinking this election is being stolen because the POTUS full on ran with that narrative?
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Max Power
Footballguy
Are you saying there was 100% no fraud so Joe wins?
We will just agree to disagree here. I dont have the time point out all the allegations. We obviously dont get our news sources from the same place. What I've seen indicates there is grounds to investigate fraud. Widespread fraud.
We're just going to have to wait for the facts to come out.
Max Power
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
No, I specifically said earlier there's been a couple of things - one man voted for his dead mother for instance.
You have no evidence, you are just hoping. You are contributing to the problem discussing potential and smoke and some of the other baseless claims. Losing is no fun but folks that think like you are doing damage to our fair elections by pushing a false narrative that there's widespread voter fraud. There hasn't been.
dkp993
Footballguy
So? That means nothing to merit. Your partisan stripes are showing through. Can’t eat your cake and have it too. And that goes for either side arguing about this. If Russia was worth investigating this is too, if Russia wasn’t worth investigating neither is this.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
And likewise, the folks pushing crazy narratives in the election thread are also doing damage to our election process. It's like people think we haven't thought of some of these things and have steps to ensure we complete the election fairly and on time.
Bamboo Bill
Footballguy
While it was directly related to the case it was under it's jurisdiction and we had 34 individuals indicted and three Russian businesses on charges ranging from computer hacking to conspiracy and financial crimes.. Those indictments have led to seven guilty pleas and five people sentenced to prison.
This uncovered all the unsavory characters Trump has chosen to associate with over the last 20 years and his entire political career.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
They aren't disputing facts. Well.. maybe Trump facts. Twitter only disputes lies and unproven conspiracy theories.
Now do you realize how often misinformation is being spread by one side? It's probably a 10 to 1 ratio of dispute labels. And it's not done because the people running Twitter are lefty socialists.
Doug B
Footballguy
What does "fraud" have to do with "ballot rejection"? There are legitimate reasons a ballot can be rejected.
Also: Can you find a reference to the NJ election you're referencing? Meanwhile, here is an article about the 2.7% (two-point-seven) of the mail-in ballots in NJ that were rejected during their July 7th 2020 local and state elections.
Doug B
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
I appreciate your opinion and I'm happy to be wrong. I think it's worth looking into. Especially Sidney Powell's claims.
Max Power
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
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Max Power
Footballguy
I've said they were claims every time. Should be easy to prove or debunk, but we're not to that stage yet.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Might as well say - I hereby claim that Trump had 10 million fraudulent votes cast for him - I have as much proof as you do. Please open an investigation.
squistion
Footballguy
That can't be right. First I have heard that accusation that people were still casting their ballots when Fox made the call.
Doug B
Footballguy
Why invoke someone's claims, though? I think you've suggested -- whether you've meant to or not -- that her claims have significant persuasive power. I also don't see where you personally have been agnostic to her claims -- when you bring her up, you bring her up as someone with meaningful, rooted ideas that can contribute to a debate.
Max Power
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
She is a reputable DC lawyer. For her to make these allegations is a pretty big deal. She doesn't strike me as the type to throw #### at the wall.
dkp993
Footballguy
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I don’t need to. It’s the job of people asserting fraud to bring forth evidence. So far, each time they’ve suggested fraud, it has been shot down with facts. Not once has actual evidence - clear, compelling evidence - of fraud been provided. Not once. Debunked repeatedly. And then those debunkings get ignored by folks who “believe in fraud existing.”
shader
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Deleted because it’s my own fault for being in this thread instead of the voter fraud thread. No idea how that happened, but truly my own fault. I should know better.
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timschochet
Footballguy
This feels like a college argument about atheism:
There is no god.
Can you prove it?
Can you prove there is a god?
Can you prove there isn’t?
Round and round it goes. But in the case of this election, it’s not a question of fraud or no fraud. It’s a question of whether there was enough fraud to have a significant impact on the result. For that, the proof must be provided by the accuser. The defender has no responsibility whatsoever unless the accuser can demonstrate credible evidence, and so far none has been shown.
dkp993
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
I don’t know how I got in this thread either. But you’re wrong either way. Social media is full of evidence. The question is whether any of it will stick. To say “there is literally no evidence” is simply an untrue statement.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
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