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McCarthy and McConnell Wanted ‘Son of a B*tch’ Trump Out of Politics After Jan. 6 Riot, (1 Viewer)

The Commish

Footballguy
I agree. I'm talking about the pressure from his own party not to run, and if so, the primary he'll face. Lots can happen between now and 2023. 
Not sure I follow.  What's left as the GOP "base" is overwhelmingly Trump supporters.  We know the base is generally what decides who the option for the party is going to be.  This is true of both parties.  Do you think there's going to be some coalesced groundswell of support for some other candidate by everyone that used to be part of the base but jumped ship at some point after 2016?  Because, I don't and I hope I am completely wrong about that.

 

JIslander

Footballguy
Not sure I follow.  What's left as the GOP "base" is overwhelmingly Trump supporters.  We know the base is generally what decides who the option for the party is going to be.  This is true of both parties.  Do you think there's going to be some coalesced groundswell of support for some other candidate by everyone that used to be part of the base but jumped ship at some point after 2016?  Because, I don't and I hope I am completely wrong about that.
No and Trump won't back anybody but himself. 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Do you think there's going to be some coalesced groundswell of support for some other candidate by everyone that used to be part of the base but jumped ship at some point after 2016? 
That's what I was getting at, yes. Do I think it will happen? Probably not. But I can hope, can't I? I do not want him to be President again, and he might very well win. 

 

The General

Footballguy
You sure? I know it probably makes him feel powerful, but the public should never see how the sausage is made. That two top-ranking guys wanted him out can't be good for confidence among Republicans. In fact, probably half of the Republicans on this board seem sick of him for this very reason. 
I really do think so. If we have learned anything about this guy it is that this is a main motivator. 

The appearance of the top Republicans subservient to him is right up his alley. 

 

Maurile Tremblay

Administrator
Staff member
I can't see a SINGLE person who's voted for Trump twice now voting ANYTHING other than GOP. 


It's generally rare (though not completely unheard of) for people to change their minds about political stuff.

In a rematch between Trump and Biden, I'd expect a similar outcome. I don't think many people on either side will say, "I got it wrong last time, so I'm switching this time."

That's why Biden would have a better chance against Trump than he would against a different Republican opponent. People who voted D last time might switch to R this time (or vice versa) if the candidates are different, but not if it's an exact rematch.

(Plus, more Trump voters than Biden voters have died of old age or COVID since the last election.)

 
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ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
I've been meaning to start a thread on this topic for awhile, but haven't gotten around to it: There are a lot of things in American politics that piss me off, but I don't think anything can compare to the contempt I feel for Establishment Republicans and their utter spinelessness. They have spent the past six years repeatedly allowing Trump to humiliate and debase them; they're basically like Kevin Bacon in Animal House: "Thank you sir, may I have another!"

At this point, is anyone actually a fan of these guys outside of their own family members? (Come to think of it, my cousin went to grad school with McConnell's daughter, and apparently it was widely known she didn't share her father's politics.) The MAGA types know they secretly loathe Trump and would dump him in a hot second if they thought they could get away with it. Meanwhile, everyone who hates Trump knows that, whatever they may say about him in private, they repeatedly enable his worst behaviors in public.

The thing is, McCarthy is caught up in a broader trend where House Speaker is an increasingly diminished role, especially on the GOP side. Boehner spent four years herding cats, and Ryan went from being regarded as a Very Serious Thinker to being Trump's caddy and pretending not to have read his tweets. Pelosi is still much more powerful than either of them ever were, but even she has far less sway over her party's restless left flank than she did her first time around. So McCarthy was never going to be mistaken for a strongman.

What really puzzles me is the presidential wannabes like Cruz, Hawley, Rubio or Haley. I mean, Cruz literally let Trump get away with calling his dad a murderer and his wife ugly. If my boss insulted my wife like that, I might manage to restrain myself from punching him, but I wouldn't continue working for him, and I damn well wouldn't go around publicly praising him. And these people think that after such stunning displays of weakness, voters are going to turn around say, "You know who I think can best stand up to Putin? That guy/gal who let Trump bully them over and over again!"

 
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The Commish

Footballguy
That's what I was getting at, yes. Do I think it will happen? Probably not. But I can hope, can't I? I do not want him to be President again, and he might very well win. 
Yes GB....hope is all we really have and it's fleeting more and more each day.  That there is debate about what happened on Jan 6 is a gut punch that should have gotten our attention, but here we are.

 

whoknew

Footballguy
I've been meaning to start a thread on this topic for awhile, but haven't gotten around to it: There are a lot of things in American politics that piss me off, but I don't think anything can compare to the contempt I feel for Establishment Republicans and their utter spinelessness. They have spent the past six years repeatedly allowing Trump to humiliate and debase them; they're basically like Kevin Bacon in Animal House: "Thank you sir, may I have another!"

At this point, is anyone actually a fan of these guys outside of their own family members? (Come to think of it, my cousin went to grad school with McConnell's daughter, and apparently it was widely known she didn't share her father's politics.) The MAGA types know they secretly loathe Trump and would dump him in a hot second if they thought they could get away with it. Meanwhile, everyone who hates Trump knows that, whatever they may say about him in private, they repeatedly enable his worst behaviors in public.

The thing is, McCarthy is caught up in a broader trend where House Speaker is an increasingly diminished role, especially on the GOP side. Boehner spent four years herding cats, and Ryan went from being regarded as a Very Serious Thinker to being Trump's caddy and pretending not to have read his tweets. Pelosi is still much more powerful than either of them ever were, but even she has far less sway over her party's restless left flank than she did her first time around. So McCarthy was never going to be mistaken for a strongman.

What really puzzles me is the presidential wannabes like Cruz, Hawley, Rubio or Haley. I mean, Cruz literally let Trump get away with calling his dad a murderer and his wife ugly. If my boss insulted my wife like that, I might manage to restrain myself from punching him, but I wouldn't continue working for him, and I damn well wouldn't go around publicly praising him. And these people think that after such stunning displays of weakness, voters are going to turn around say, "You know who I think can best stand up to Putin? That guy/gal who let Trump bully them over and over again!"


Wait until after this election, the GOP wins the House, and they make Trump Speaker.

 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
The American nativist and European right is cozying up to Putin, why would they stand up to him? 
Well, I was talking about American voters in general, not just the MAGA types. And really, you could sub in Xi, Maduro, the Iranians, or whatever other strongman leader you want. My point was, projecting weakness and fear has never, and will never, be a good look in a presidential candidate

 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
Wait until after this election, the GOP wins the House, and they make Trump Speaker.
That would almost be worth it just to see McCarthy, having sacrificed every last bit of dignity in order to achieve his lifelong dream of becoming Speaker, have it snatched away at the last second by Trump.

It did get me thinking, though: Which government jobs would you say Trump is least suited for? I'd have to think Vice President would be at the top of the list, followed by Supreme Court Justice and Secretary of State. But Speaker is definitely in the Top 5. The main job requirements are wrangling votes for legislation and mollifying all the disparate elements of the caucus. I mean ...

 

Leroy Hoard

Footballguy
: Which government jobs would you say Trump is least suited for? I'd have to think Vice President would be at the top of the list, followed by Supreme Court Justice and Secretary of State. But Speaker is definitely in the Top 5. The main job requirements are wrangling votes for legislation and mollifying all the disparate elements of the caucus. I mean ...
It's too bad Melania can't run. I think Donald would make a  dandy First Husband.

 

tommyGunZ

Footballguy
I was very wrong about Trump in 2016 -- I thought he mainly won that primary because all the normal Republicans were dividing up their votes, when the reality is that Trump somehow intuitively divined a bottom-up change in mood among the GOP base that I was totally oblivious to -- so maybe I'm also wrong about him now.  But I get the sense from afar that you're probably right.  

Republican politicians have definitely realized that their base wants a Trump-like figure who fights for them on cultural issues and doesn't get distracted by minor sideshows like global geopolitics and trivialities like that.  That's why DeSantis probably feels like he won the lottery having Disney -- arguably the most hated company in right-of-center circles except maybe for Twitter or the NYT -- jump into the ring with him for absolutely no reason to pick a fight that it had very little chance of ever winning.  He knows how this sort of thing plays.  And it's not like it's just him.  Every Republican who is positioning themselves for 2024 run seems to be following a similar playbook. 

My guess is that a lot of Republican primary voters will publicly thank Trump for his service, invoke the name "Trump" in primary debates the way that they used to talk about Reagan when guys like you and me were younger, but look for somebody who they know is more competent and less embarrassing.  They'll have options to choose from in the primaries.  The sooner that MAGA base coalesces around a single standard-bearer the less likely it is that Trump divides and conquers.  Although I'm not sure the divide-and-conquer strategy would even work if he's not running against the Jeb!s and Rubios of the world.  
Narrator: “There was no bottom up change among Republican voters. The bigotry and racist base has been there all along.”

 

The General

Footballguy
You sure? I know it probably makes him feel powerful, but the public should never see how the sausage is made. That two top-ranking guys wanted him out can't be good for confidence among Republicans. In fact, probably half of the Republicans on this board seem sick of him for this very reason. 
Here’s Don talking after hearing the tapes from a WSJ interview yesterday: 

“I think it’s all a big compliment, frankly,” Mr. Trump said of Mr. McCarthy and other Republicans who criticized him after Jan. 6 and then said they would still back him. “They realized they were wrong and supported me.”

He loves that these guys have to grovel to him and I’m sure that’s the first place his mind went when hearing them. Haven’t seen what McCarthy has said about these tapes since he initially denied saying it. 

 

ZADO

Footballguy
Any President that touts ''term limits '' on congressmen isnt going to be real popular with those people in congress  ,unless they agree with with him  

 

Sea Duck

Footballguy
(Plus, more Trump voters than Biden voters have died of old age or COVID since the last election.)
But since the COVID deaths tended to happen in redder areas anyway, I would expect Trump to maintain a comfortable advantage in those places.

Also, the reduction of vote-by-mail is going to narrow the playing field significantly.

 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
Also, the reduction of vote-by-mail is going to narrow the playing field significantly.
Not so sure about that. Prior to 2020, VBM didn’t have a big partisan skew (I think it may have even been slightly GOP). It may be that once we are no longer on the anomalous situation of an election held during a pandemic, the situation will revert back to normal. Then again, it’s also possible that 2020 transformed people’s attitudes regarding VBM and the skew will remain in place

 

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