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6 minutes ago, squistion said:

How many deaths are acceptable to you for the cost of reopening everything immediately: 100k? 200k? 500k? 1M? 2M? 

How many American do you think are expendable to avoid economic devastation?

Governments and economists regularly use 1 life equals 10 million dollars.  100,000 deaths is 1 trillion dollars. We are way past that.  OPEN UP!

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6 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Governments and economists regularly use 1 life equals 10 million dollars.  100,000 deaths is 1 trillion dollars. We are way past that.  OPEN UP!

How much do wives say?  Pretty sure mine would settle for less.

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23 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Any answer he gives you won’t be good enough. It’s an unfair and obviously loaded question. 

Let me ask you this, how many millions more people have to lose their jobs? How many more thousands of businesses have to go belly up every day? How many millions more people have to develop mental health issues? How many more people have to commit suicide? 

Hopefully not too many. But @Widbil83 why does this have to be an either or? The medical experts tell us that with enough testing and contact tracing, we can open up for business, bring the jobs back, and still be safe. Most other countries are doing exactly this; why can’t we? 

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31 minutes ago, shadrap said:

well, thank you for that.

It's how I feel.  No BS & he cares for America.

If you truly feel that way then I can understand why you would support him. But can you understand why many of us, based on the facts, do not feel that way? 

And then there’s another point as well: President Trump could truly care for America, want the same things that you want, and yet still be a lousy President because he’s incompetent, simply incapable of performing the most important duties of the office in the same way that I would be an incompetent NFL quarterback. Do you accept this possibility? (Because I believe it to be true.) 

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31 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Hopefully not too many. But @Widbil83 why does this have to be an either or? The medical experts tell us that with enough testing and contact tracing, we can open up for business, bring the jobs back, and still be safe. Most other countries are doing exactly this; why can’t we? 

It doesn’t have to be, and I’m not arguing against any of this. But we have to get open stat. If you’re old, sick or freaked out and just want to stay in the house that’s fine. 

Some people on my team think that once we “open things up” that everything is going to bounce back quickly, but I don’t think that’s he case at all. I work in the health care industry and go to dozens of different hospitals in the Midwest and these places are dying. Massive layoffs to every dept because no elective surgeries are happening. The ERs and ICUs sit basically empty waiting for the surge that never came. It’s like this in 95% on the hospitals in this country. 

Then I read comments like this from you and people on your team still talking about locking down the country. I see this as completely wasting time and absolutely destroying business, any supply chain and the entire health care industry basically. It’s just crazy to me.

I was never for a national lockdown, but never went against the shelter in place here in Illinois until after about 6 weeks. I realized it’s destroying almost every industry now and the ripple effects are going to last longer than anybody thinks. 

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7 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

It doesn’t have to be, and I’m not arguing against any of this. But we have to get open stat. If you’re old, sick or freaked out and just want to stay in the house that’s fine. 

Some people on my team think that once we “open things up” that everything is going to bounce back quickly, but I don’t think that’s he case at all. I work in the health care industry and go to dozens of different hospitals in the Midwest and these places are dying. Massive layoffs to every dept because no elective surgeries are happening. The ERs and ICUs sit basically empty waiting for the surge that never came. It’s like this in 95% on the hospitals in this country. 

Then I read comments like this from you and people on your team still talking about locking down the country. I see this as completely wasting time and absolutely destroying business, any supply chain and the entire health care industry basically. It’s just crazy to me.

I was never for a national lockdown, but never went against the shelter in place here in Illinois until after about 6 weeks. I realized it’s destroying almost every industry now and the ripple effects are going to last longer than anybody thinks. 

I was for a national lockdown for about a month; now it’s probably too late for that and it’s too bad because I think we could have flattened the curve much sooner and easier. But I am still for a massive testing and tracing program that needs to be organized by the federal government. It remains up to President Trump to take leadership. 

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24 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Keep saying it's impossible and would be a miracle to have a vaccine by the end of the year MSM.  You cant help yourself.  

It would be wonderful if they’re wrong about that. I don’t think they are. But it would sure be awesome. 

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48 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

It doesn’t have to be, and I’m not arguing against any of this. But we have to get open stat. If you’re old, sick or freaked out and just want to stay in the house that’s fine. 

Some people on my team think that once we “open things up” that everything is going to bounce back quickly, but I don’t think that’s he case at all. I work in the health care industry and go to dozens of different hospitals in the Midwest and these places are dying. Massive layoffs to every dept because no elective surgeries are happening. The ERs and ICUs sit basically empty waiting for the surge that never came. It’s like this in 95% on the hospitals in this country. 

Then I read comments like this from you and people on your team still talking about locking down the country. I see this as completely wasting time and absolutely destroying business, any supply chain and the entire health care industry basically. It’s just crazy to me.

I was never for a national lockdown, but never went against the shelter in place here in Illinois until after about 6 weeks. I realized it’s destroying almost every industry now and the ripple effects are going to last longer than anybody thinks. 

It went from flattening the curve to 'everyone safe' .   You are completely right about hospitals.  I work with them too and they are loosing people left and right.

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31 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Keep saying it's impossible and would be a miracle to have a vaccine by the end of the year MSM.  You cant help yourself.  

I’m not lining up for this thing if it gets done this quick. :tinfoilhat:

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17 minutes ago, The General said:

I’m not lining up for this thing if it gets done this quick. :tinfoilhat:

Me neither and it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories or paranoia about the government.

If they fast track and rush through the clinical trials in order to get the vaccine to market within an arbitrary time frame, they are flirting with disaster, as there may be more deaths associated with the vaccine than those that might have died of COVID-19 without it. 

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3 hours ago, Widbil83 said:

Anybody who is still in favor of a any type of lockdown at this point is doing it 100% for political purposes

I would say fear would be the far and away number one reason.  Not a good one in my opinion but certainly the overwhelming main one.  

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57 minutes ago, squistion said:

Me neither and it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories or paranoia about the government.

If they fast track and rush through the clinical trials in order to get the vaccine to market within an arbitrary time frame, they are flirting with disaster, as there may be more deaths associated with the vaccine than those that might have died of COVID-19 without it. 

I’m not a doctor but seems like something this fast means that we get to be part of the trial. 

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"AOC is a disaster. She wants all fossil fuel out. She wants everything out. She wants wind, which is expensive — kills all the birds. You know, I’m also an environmentalist. But wind is a disaster”

-  Our President.

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9 hours ago, Trey said:

"AOC is a disaster. She wants all fossil fuel out. She wants everything out. She wants wind, which is expensive — kills all the birds. You know, I’m also an environmentalist. But wind is a disaster”

-  Our President.

He's not wrong.  :shrug:

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9 hours ago, Trey said:

"AOC is a disaster. She wants all fossil fuel out. She wants everything out. She wants wind, which is expensive — kills all the birds. You know, I’m also an environmentalist. But wind is a disaster”

-  Our President.

Great :goodposting:

 

as usual Donald nails it

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12 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Like a boss!!  My daughter said he's a straight up machine!  Unbelievable energy, she's 29 and cant keep up with him, no one can.  It's like he's from the future come to save us.  I think he can time travel.  He is the only one who Chuck Norris bends a knee to.  True story.

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9 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Rogan O’Handley is quickly become one of my favorite Trump supporters 

Oh God....THAT would be EPIC!!

....during a news conference, of course.

Fortunately...he'll never see it on his desk.

Edited by Opie
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5 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Yuuge line of people cheering the Presidential motorcade in Pennsylvania yesterday. 🇺🇸

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1261373283536175104?s=21

Biden's up by 6 in Pennsylvania. I know it's early, but thus far Trump hasn't received a pandemic bump. If opening up the economy goes smoothly, he should narrow the gap.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/pa/pennsylvania_trump_vs_biden-6861.html

Edited by SoBeDad
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14 minutes ago, Widbil83 said:

Yuuge line of people cheering the Presidential motorcade in Pennsylvania yesterday. 🇺🇸

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1261373283536175104?s=21

Pennsylvania had 135 deaths yesterday alone and it looks like the majority of people in that video weren’t practicing social distancing or wearing a mask? Yikesssss, Trump won PA by a single percentage point in 2016, every vote in PA is going to count. I’m not sure I’d be thrilled seeing that video if I was a Trump supporter.

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17 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:

The Trump campaign has the energy.  Meanwhile, Joe is in his basement with aluminum foil on the walls.  

Biden couldn’t get round up 12 people to watch his motorcade roll in. He’s the worst candidate since Mondale. If he wasn’t such a terrible person I would feel bad for him.

I love when we have these real world instances collide with the fake polls and fake news. Acosta, Fredo and Little Brian at CNN are probably going talk this down all day today on CNN. 

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1 hour ago, BladeRunner said:

 

10 hours ago, Trey said:

"AOC is a disaster. She wants all fossil fuel out. She wants everything out. She wants wind, which is expensive — kills all the birds. You know, I’m also an environmentalist. But wind is a disaster”

-  Our President.

He's not wrong.  :shrug:

 

America’s renewable energy produced more electricity than coal for 40 consecutive days

First time this has ever happpened.

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14 hours ago, timschochet said:

I was for a national lockdown for about a month; now it’s probably too late for that and it’s too bad because I think we could have flattened the curve much sooner and easier. But I am still for a massive testing and tracing program that needs to be organized by the federal government. It remains up to President Trump to take leadership. 

Curious, on your testing program.  Would you need to get a test daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once? 

On contact tracing, if you ride public transportation how would you trace that? If you went to a grocery store? Walmart?  

I'm tired of people comparing the US to other countries.  We have 330M people here, we're the 3rd largest country by population in the World.  The scale of what would be needed can't be compared to a country like Germany (83M) or South Korea (50M).  Then there are other factors such as population density and modes of transportation and cultural habits.  Can we stop with the "other countries do this..." line.

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1 hour ago, SoBeDad said:

Biden's up by 6 in Pennsylvania. I know it's early, but thus far Trump hasn't received a pandemic bump. If opening up the economy goes smoothly, he should narrow the gap.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/pa/pennsylvania_trump_vs_biden-6861.html

You should look at enthusiasm polls (disclaimer: I have no idea what they are projecting right now).  They are a better indication of who will actually GO OUT and vote.

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6 minutes ago, Snotbubbles said:

You should look at enthusiasm polls (disclaimer: I have no idea what they are projecting right now).  They are a better indication of who will actually GO OUT and vote.

Shhhh.

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1 hour ago, SoBeDad said:

Biden's up by 6 in Pennsylvania. I know it's early, but thus far Trump hasn't received a pandemic bump. If opening up the economy goes smoothly, he should narrow the gap.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/pa/pennsylvania_trump_vs_biden-6861.html

One of these is a Republican outfit.

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Thousands of Americans lined up cheering our great President during the middle of a pandemic on a weekday morning.

Democrat: But the polls show the guy turtled up in his basement who bombs every softball interview he does winning.

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Just now, Widbil83 said:

Thousands of Americans lined up cheering our great President during the middle of a pandemic on a weekday morning.

Democrat: But the polls show the guy turtled up in his basement who bombs every softball interview he does winning.

Yes, and from the photo posted here we saw how seriously they are taking COVID-19 pandemic, with their lack of social distancing and few wearing face masks. 

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24 minutes ago, squistion said:

Yes, and from the photo posted here we saw how seriously they are taking COVID-19 pandemic, with their lack of social distancing and few wearing face masks. 

Let them think it’s a good thing. As I said above, Trump won PA by a single percentage point in 2016, every vote in PA is going to count. That video showed thousands of Trump supporters who weren’t practicing social distancing or wearing a masks in a state that saw 135 deaths yesterday alone.

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29 minutes ago, squistion said:

Yes, and from the photo posted here we saw how seriously they are taking COVID-19 pandemic, with their lack of social distancing and few wearing face masks. 

They all stepped out of a Walmart 

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16 minutes ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

Let them think it’s a good thing. As I said above, Trump won PA by a single percentage point in 2016, every vote in PA is going to count. That video showed thousands of Trump supporters who weren’t practicing social distancing or wearing a masks in a state that saw 135 deaths yesterday alone.

70% of our deaths are from nursing homes and assisted care facilities.  85%+ of the deaths had at least 1 comorbidity.  Our Governor did a piss poor job of protecting high risk individuals. 

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1 hour ago, Snotbubbles said:

Curious, on your testing program.  Would you need to get a test daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once? 

On contact tracing, if you ride public transportation how would you trace that? If you went to a grocery store? Walmart?  

I'm tired of people comparing the US to other countries.  We have 330M people here, we're the 3rd largest country by population in the World.  The scale of what would be needed can't be compared to a country like Germany (83M) or South Korea (50M).  Then there are other factors such as population density and modes of transportation and cultural habits.  Can we stop with the "other countries do this..." line.

You raise good questions and I don’t have the answers. That is because I’m not a medical expert. I defer to them. 

I really don’t understand why this has become a political issue. When I’m in a plane I defer to the pilot. When my car breaks down I listen to a mechanic. And when we have a pandemic, I trust in the doctors. 

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2 hours ago, Widbil83 said:

Biden couldn’t get round up 12 people to watch his motorcade roll in. He’s the worst candidate since Mondale. If he wasn’t such a terrible person I would feel bad for him.

I love when we have these real world instances collide with the fake polls and fake news. Acosta, Fredo and Little Brian at CNN are probably going talk this down all day today on CNN. 

You can’t just believe that the CNN polls are fake, you have to believe that ALL the polls are fake. Every poll in Pennsylvania has Biden in the lead: 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/pennsylvania/

I fear you’re being misled by a small but vocal minority of Trump supporters. He’s not popular there. 

Edited by timschochet
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2 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

Biden's up by 6 in Pennsylvania. I know it's early, but thus far Trump hasn't received a pandemic bump. If opening up the economy goes smoothly, he should narrow the gap.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/pa/pennsylvania_trump_vs_biden-6861.html

Trump voters are working and not at home for these poll phone calls. Biden would have like 5 people along the road if that was him.

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2 minutes ago, timschochet said:

You raise good questions and I don’t have the answers. That is because I’m not a medical expert. I defer to them. 

I really don’t understand why this has become a political issue. When I’m in a plane I defer to the pilot. When my car breaks down I listen to a mechanic. And when we have a pandemic, I trust in the doctors. 

Remember Trump said he could have been a doctor and he has a natural ability. 

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8 minutes ago, timschochet said:

You raise good questions and I don’t have the answers. That is because I’m not a medical expert. I defer to them. 

I really don’t understand why this has become a political issue. When I’m in a plane I defer to the pilot. When my car breaks down I listen to a mechanic. And when we have a pandemic, I trust in the doctors. 

Have you ever gone (or heard of someone) go to the doctor and been mis-diagnosed?  Doctors aren't infallible.  If the doctors had their way we wouldn't ever leave our houses for fear of contracting any disease.  

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1 hour ago, Snotbubbles said:

I'm tired of people comparing the US to other countries.  We have 330M people here, we're the 3rd largest country by population in the World.  The scale of what would be needed can't be compared to a country like Germany (83M) or South Korea (50M).  Then there are other factors such as population density and modes of transportation and cultural habits.  Can we stop with the "other countries do this..." line.

Man, this is American pride? Great America? Conservative belief in American exceptionalism is nowhere in this. We sound pathetic, weak here. 

Here’s a comp for you don’t want to hear: the country that was ramping out 10 fighter planes an hour in WW2, the country that eradicated polio and smallpox, the country that went to the moon is 61st in the world in per capita testing. Right now we’re staring down the barrel at 150K deaths.

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Just now, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Man, this is American pride? Great America? Conservative belief in American exceptionalism is nowhere in this. We sound pathetic, weak here. 

Here’s a comp for you don’t want to hear: the country that was ramping out 10 fighter planes an hour in WW2, the country that eradicated polio and smallpox, the country that went to the moon is 61st in the world in per capita testing. Right now we’re staring down the barrel at 150K deaths.

That's the result of many years of shipping manufacturing jobs to other countries.  What do you think Trump has been doing the past 3.5 years?  He's been working on getting those jobs back to America instead of being shipped out to other countries.  The fact that China produces active ingredients in our drugs and PPEs should be a wake up call to the American people that we need to bring these jobs back to America.  Biden is part of the ship the jobs out regimes that have plagued our once great country.  

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