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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread


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Just now, shuke said:
1 hour ago, jwb said:

Then I started feeling better, but my lungs didn't feel right for two weeks afterwards

Can you describe this?

They felt... wet? But not wet, because there was not much congestion. Heavy? Not right? Hard to describe. But definitely "something" I've never had for that length of time. 

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47 minutes ago, Politician Spock said:

Absolutely.

First of all, behavior is going to change. Some people will, like Cappy said, avoid sporting events and other big crowds. What percentage of people? I don't know, but at least 10%, which will be a significant loss for those venues. 

Second of all, even if the stimulus replaces every dollar everyone lost, that doesn't mean people will return to their spending habits. People are more likely to save for a rainy day now, especially given how few people were doing it before. So even shopping on Amazon, where these is no crowds, is going to take a hit as people buy less and save more. 

There is absolutely no way the economy will be anywhere near what it was before when it is turned back on. Could take years to get back to those levels. Many businesses are going to retract their locations, resulting in a ton of empty commercial space, and more importantly the loss of those jobs that were there. 

I still see a line of cars in the Starbucks drive-thru with people ready to buy an $8 cup of coffee.  If we're truly free to interact as usual at the end of April / early May, summer entertainment spending will be through the roof.

I wish people as a whole in our society would make smart financial choices, but by and large they don't.  YOLO

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1 minute ago, jwb said:

They felt... wet? But not wet, because there was not much congestion. Heavy? Not right? Hard to describe. But definitely "something" I've never had for that length of time. 

Interesting.  Same here, although I've had no trouble breathing and it hasn't stopped me from vigorous exercise.

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7 minutes ago, Mr. Ham said:

As an early paranoiac, and someone taking quarantine to extremes, I disagree. If there is a solid mitigation plan in place, meaning if I get it I can isolate from family and be quarantined at some unused hotel or something, and there is stringent contact tracing, then I’m all for doing my part to reintegrate.

I’m all about sacrifice for the greater good. Given where we are, my role is to stay out of the way. But in a more prepared reality, my role would be to help prevent economic catastrophe that will cost more lives than the virus. Irks me that we aren’t yet putting forth the wartime effort to make that practical. 

I’m willing to assume my 1% risk or so, provided my government does its best to protect those with higher risk and minimize mine, and more vitally that of my family.

(They are not.)

The math is overwhelming.  Almost nobody has been infected so far — so what will be different in a few months?  Anytime we relax the “rules” we will face almost exactly what we face today. If that changes - if we have more medical care available, better testing, etc - then cool, I’ll consider re-engaging society.  But it will take meaningful change from where we are today.

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16 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Based on the rolling smiley, there's not a very high likelihood of you being interested in a serious response.

And and even lower likelihood of you taking the answer to heart.

Try me.

Allow me to posit that gloves achieve absolutely nothing.  Unless you change gloves after every single thing you touch.

So grab your cart, change gloves, grab milk change gloves, touch cart, change gloves, eggs change gloves, touch cart change gloves....etc.  But wait, now all those grocries that touched your cart/cahier/bagger and the checkout counter are in your car?  Oh crap you touched your wallet/phone with those gloves.  DOH now they are in your house!  :lmao:

People allow fear to turn off whatever bit of logic there is left in their brains.

Edited by matuski
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For folks that feel like they had COVID in November and December: all the coronaviruses known before SARS ... they never went away. People still catch them all the time. Sure, 99 times out of 100, they don't do more than give you an aggravating cold. But 'legacy' coronavirus infections can still cause pneumonia and/or inflammation of the smaller bronchial tubes.

Plus other classes of viruses are still around, such as human orthopneumovirus and human metapneumovirus that cause RSV in infants and toddlers -- immunity to these viruses only lasts about 5-7 years on average. Could've also gotten a bacterial infection -- streptococcus pneumoniae and moraxella catarrhalis still alive and well. Odds are that none of these will give you severe symptoms -- but they can if the odds happen not to be in your favor.

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3 minutes ago, Capella said:

Sucks man. This state is so full of old people. He’s going to get a lot of them killed. 

Would be a double whammy if the rest of the country is opening up and trying to come down there when it was still elevated in FL.  Was hoping to visit my aunt down in Jax for a bit this summer too.

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2 minutes ago, shuke said:

Interesting.  Same here, although I've had no trouble breathing and it hasn't stopped me from vigorous exercise.

yea, me too - did not really impede me after the initial 4-5 days of being "sick". Mine then went away after 2 weeks. 

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4 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

So how many people do you really think died in China?

Man that’s a question I don’t think we ever know. People say add a zero, I’m thinking more like 2 or even 3. It was bad there and they knew a lot earlier than they are letting on and tried to cover it up. On the low side, couple hundred thousand. On the high side, million?

4 hours ago, msommer said:

Truer words have never been spoken. Granted, they have been spoken before...

Do want him to start in about Josh Gordon? Because this is how you get him to start in about Josh Gordon.

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1 hour ago, waiver wire said:

 

but with the announcement out of Ontario , no public events until july and now this article  

For clarity,  I believe that was just Toronto,  not all Ontario. Probably moot point but as far as I know it was just Tory for Toronto.

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41 minutes ago, matuski said:

If you wear gloves to a grocery store, can you explain this logic to me?   :lmao:

On another board ... this is known as "thread-schmidting" (except with invective). Complete with the rolling-on-the-floor emoticon and all.

Look -- no beef here. Just this: if you've got the goods (=info), show them. Make a case. Couch it as "I see people wearing gloves to the grocery. I think that's overkill because Reason 1, Reason 2, and Reason 3. They're unlikely to catch anything because of Reason 4, Fact 5, Replicated Study 6." Something like that.

What you basically posted meant "People who wear gloves to the grocery are a laughingstock!" You don't think there's any value whatsoever in people doing things for comfort, even if those things don't derive from cold logic?

FWIW ... I don't wear gloves to the grocery, either. I feel like frequent hand sanitizing is sufficient. But I don't think those that go with gloves are worthy of derision.

Edited by Doug B
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2 minutes ago, Doug B said:

On another board ... this is known as "thread-schmidting" (except with invective). Comlete with the rolling-on-the-floor emoticon and all.

Look -- no beef here. Just this: if you've got the goods (=info), show them. Make a case. Couch it as "I see people wearing gloves to the grocery. I think that's overkill because Reason 1, Reason 2, and Reason 3. They're unlikely to catch anything because of Reason 4, Fact 5, Replicated Study 6." Something like that.

What you basically posted meant "People who wear gloves to the grocery are a laughingstock!" You don't think there's any value whatsoever in people doing things for comfort, even if those things don't derive from cold logic?

FWIW ... I don't wear gloves to the grocery, either. I feel like frequent hand sanitizing is sufficient. But I don't think those that go with gloves are worthy of derision.

Gloves help nose pickers stop. 

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17 minutes ago, jwb said:

They felt... wet? But not wet, because there was not much congestion. Heavy? Not right? Hard to describe. But definitely "something" I've never had for that length of time. 

If you haven’t seen this yet, skip to about the 15:35 mark and watch his demonstration, see if that marries up to how you felt https://youtu.be/4J0d59dd-qM

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9 minutes ago, beer 30 said:
28 minutes ago, jwb said:

They felt... wet? But not wet, because there was not much congestion. Heavy? Not right? Hard to describe. But definitely "something" I've never had for that length of time. 

If you haven’t seen this yet, skip to about the 15:35 mark and watch his demonstration, see if that marries up to how you felt https://youtu.be/4J0d59dd-qM

No, not really. They just felt odd, or like I mentioned, heavy/wet. It was like the sickness lingered there, but I could breathe well during that two week followup.

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42 minutes ago, shuke said:

Interesting.  Same here, although I've had no trouble breathing and it hasn't stopped me from vigorous exercise.

Oh come on.... 

 

 

;) 

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1 hour ago, Doug B said:
2 hours ago, matuski said:

If you wear gloves to a grocery store, can you explain this logic to me?   :lmao:

On another board ... this is known as "thread-schmidting" (except with invective). Complete with the rolling-on-the-floor emoticon and all.

Look -- no beef here. Just this: if you've got the goods (=info), show them. Make a case. Couch it as "I see people wearing gloves to the grocery. I think that's overkill because Reason 1, Reason 2, and Reason 3. They're unlikely to catch anything because of Reason 4, Fact 5, Replicated Study 6." Something like that.

What you basically posted meant "People who wear gloves to the grocery are a laughingstock!" You don't think there's any value whatsoever in people doing things for comfort, even if those things don't derive from cold logic?

FWIW ... I don't wear gloves to the grocery, either. I feel like frequent hand sanitizing is sufficient. But I don't think those that go with gloves are worthy of derision

Prime benefit of wearing gloves or any kind of mask - keep the wearer from touching their face.  Seems like a good thing these days, but then again I’m just a common sense kind of guy. 

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4 hours ago, Biff84 said:

A couple comments on the topics of the day...

Its unlikely that CV was widespread in November. Many may have had symptoms like what’s being described but there’s major flaws in it being CV. First where are the unexplained pneumonia deaths? China alerted WHO when they had a cluster of like 5 deaths from unexplained pneumonia. If it was in other countries in November, there would have been other deaths.

Second, if it was elsewhere in November, what caused it to go dormant in these countries for a few months? As contagious as it is, there’s little chance it would have died off and not spread aggressively especially without the social distancing we’re doing now. Third, researchers don’t believe the it mutates and changes like other viruses. For this to be true, you’d have to assume that a less powerful version of it was around and then it mutated to what it is now. If that’s the case, we’re more screwed than we thought.

On China, they undoubtedly have downplayed and lied about their numbers. I think a good rule of thumb would be to assume that everything is several multiples worse than what’s being publicly portrayed. Their government will hide something until they can’t. When they recently re-closed the cinemas, that’s likely a sign that it’s gotten bad enough that they can’t continue to make their claims of beating it.

With that being said, the major sins of the Chinese government doesn’t clear everyone else from being accountable for their actions. 

I agree with a lot of what you said, but people are overemphasizing the bolded. It does mutate, just not as quickly as run-of-the-mill coronaviruses, which mutate very quickly. Most every strain on this phylogenetic tree is likely the result of mutation(s), though I suppose some may due to recombination as well.  

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1 hour ago, matuski said:

If florida is like arizona, the snowbirds went back north.

As someone who is deep in snowbird territory of AZ, I can tell you that they are still here. In my area we mainly get people from Washington/Oregon/Idaho/Colorado and they’re not going back yet. In fact, that could end up being a big problem because the model has AZ peaking late April and early May when they will be going back.

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6 hours ago, shader said:

Just so you all know, the WHO/China thing is a political thing being pushed on right wing sites today. This isn’t a political thread, so please keep your partisan talking points to the other forum.  This forum isn’t one where we can discuss who is at fault for where we stand.

Lol @ casting blame largely where blame is due and characterizing it as "partisan politics." This isn't a D vs. R debate. China misled the world for weeks if not months and now the world is paying the price. Put us on ignore if you don't want to read it.

Edited by dickey moe
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4 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

If you had flu-like symptoms in November, you had the flu.  Congratulations.

My wife keeps telling me she thinks she had it late last year, and when I try to correct her, it increases the chances I'll have to start posting more in the coronavirus divorce thread.

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3 hours ago, [icon] said:

I have no doubt we are looking at 4th of July at the earliest for things to even begin to really loosen here 

I don't see how our economy can survive mandatory social distancing for that long.

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12 minutes ago, SFBayDuck said:

 

Prime benefit of wearing gloves or any kind of mask - keep the wearer from touching their face.  Seems like a good thing these days, but then again I’m just a common sense kind of guy. 

The problem with gloves, like masks, is that people don’t know how to use them properly and overestimate how much they protect you. For glove think do them as a disposable pair of hands that you throw away rather than scrubbing or sanitizing. Either way it doesn’t do any good if you’re still touching your face in between washing/removing gloves.

Changing gloves often while shopping is excessive. Yes you will spread germs from item to item but not to yourself if you’re avoiding your face/other uncovered areas. Then you have to remove them properly. By the end of shopping, your gloves are covered in germs. If you take them off and touch the outside of the glove with your hand, the entire exercise was pointless and you still need to clean your hands. I’ve got a good process down, but I’d guess most don’t. Most of the time I don’t bother with the gloves unless I’m trying to save my hands from the constant soap and sanitizer.

Masks are probably worse for people not using them right. Half the people don’t have them on right and are constantly touching their face to adjust them. Others take their masks off when they stop to talk to someone. I don’t know how many people I’ve had come up to the pharmacy counter and take off their mask to tell me their name and birthday.

They need to hammer the public hard with proper techniques like they did with hand washing.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Ham said:

Rigorous testing

Can you define what this is.  Im serious, how often can we expect people to test.  How often would it be necessary.   You could be healthy one day that you test and sick the next and have no idea.

 

Edited by Jefferson the Caregiver
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55 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

WFH is weird---I am up at 11:00 drinking beer and posting here....what day is it?

I hear you, anytime I wake up before noon I think I'm in an alternate universe

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4 minutes ago, Jefferson the Caregiver said:

Can you define what this is.  Im serious, how often can we expect people to test.  How often would it be necessary.   You could be healthy one day that you test and sick the next and have no idea.

 

I think if we’re able to get enough tests and supplies, you test everyone and get back to a baseline. Test positive and you go into strict quarantine for 2 weeks. Test negative and you get to go back to semi-normal life. Test everyone is short period of time. Retest anyone who went into quarantine until they test negative. At that point we can start over and contact trace any future positive tests.

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On 3/30/2020 at 3:32 PM, skillz said:

My dad has been sick for a few weeks.  My mom called me today to say he was about to die.  I said some final words to him and he could hear me but was unable to respond.  He passed a short time later.

Now I have to find a way to help my mom get through this while she’s in Florida, I’m in Michigan and the Coronavirus is in full force.  I want to fly down to help her but also don’t want to inadvertently infect her by catching it while in a plane or the airport.  What a mess right now...

Quick update.  
After a lot of deliberation and discussion with my wife and mom I decided to fly down and drive my mom back.  So I’m sitting at the airport now.  It’s a ghost town.  Two people at security.   I bet I will have about 10 people tops on my plane.  I’ve brought a face mask, hand sanitizer and Clorox wipes.  I will wear the mask,  wipe stuff down, and not touch anything.  When I get to my mom’s I plan on going right to the shower and putting my clothes in the washer.  
 

Not an ideal solution but the best I came up with.  At least it’s a direct flight and if it’s not real crowded I can get social distancing.  It’s only a two and a half hour flight.  
 

Anyway when I left my wife was completely bawling.  She doesn’t want me or my mom to get the virus.  My mom is 70 so she is in the at risk group.  I’m in my 40s and could better recover but the whole context for me is that my dad just died of a terrible lung disease.  There’s no studies yet on what this virus will do if someone recovers and the long term effects on the lungs.  So my wife doesn’t want me to end up going out like my dad just did someday (and frankly neither do I).  
 

So I would appreciate it if everyone here would keep sending me positive vibes and prayers to get me through these next few days.  I’m sure my dad will be looking over me too....

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7 hours ago, Slapdash said:

What is Florida doing by not shutting it down?  

Yes. I agree. It should have been done last week.

But to play devil's advocate,  what would it change?  I guess the first thing is it would force the deniers to take it seriously. Maybe a few customer driven businesses would shut down. 

But currently,  here is where I'm at WITHOUT a lockdown order-

- wife is a teacher and struggling to get her small Catholic grade school to come up with a plan that doesn't force her to work 12 hour days. School kind of mismatched textbook publisher and she has had to do a lot more things manually because of school and diocese choices. Anyway she's WFH for last couple weeks.

- older son is an addiction educator in neighboring county. He is not seeing any groups live. (his students are alternative school attendees but the county schools have been shut down the last couple weeks.) However his company makes him drive to office every day. They have said he will WFH but keep pushing date back

- younger son is home from college at UF and has been for a couple weeks. Taking his courses online and eating me out of house and home.

- I've been WFH and will be until at least May 10th.

- here are all of the places I've been in last 2.5  weeks. If a lockdown were in place, how many would close?

hardware store 

grocery store

restaurant takeout - Already it's takeout only

craft beer store package - can order crowlers/growlers but can't sample any because no on site consumption allowed now. Possibly this is declared non essential

liquor store

office depot

no gym or church, they've been closed for a couple weeks.

Yes, i think it's stupid that FL hasn't declared StayAtHome/lockdown or whatever. I just don't think that it would make much difference to most of those who are already following the local/county rules. And might cause a 24 hour panic at this point. Maybe it forces a few employers like my son's to finally go WFH??

FWIW, the FL Surgeon General issued a a public health alert a couple days ago for seniors 65+.

 

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5 minutes ago, skillz said:

Quick update.  
After a lot of deliberation and discussion with my wife and mom I decided to fly down and drive my mom back.  So I’m sitting at the airport now.  It’s a ghost town.  Two people at security.   I bet I will have about 10 people tops on my plane.  I’ve brought a face mask, hand sanitizer and Clorox wipes.  I will wear the mask,  wipe stuff down, and not touch anything.  When I get to my mom’s I plan on going right to the shower and putting my clothes in the washer.  
 

Not an ideal solution but the best I came up with.  At least it’s a direct flight and if it’s not real crowded I can get social distancing.  It’s only a two and a half hour flight.  
 

Anyway when I left my wife was completely bawling.  She doesn’t want me or my mom to get the virus.  My mom is 70 so she is in the at risk group.  I’m in my 40s and could better recover but the whole context for me is that my dad just died of a terrible lung disease.  There’s no studies yet on what this virus will do if someone recovers and the long term effects on the lungs.  So my wife doesn’t want me to end up going out like my dad just did someday (and frankly neither do I).  
 

So I would appreciate it if everyone here would keep sending me positive vibes and prayers to get me through these next few days.  I’m sure my dad will be looking over me too....

Good luck. Sending positive vibes your way.

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7 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

The math is overwhelming.  Almost nobody has been infected so far — so what will be different in a few months?  Anytime we relax the “rules” we will face almost exactly what we face today. If that changes - if we have more medical care available, better testing, etc - then cool, I’ll consider re-engaging society.  But it will take meaningful change from where we are today.

Take a look at what Sweden is doing right now, let's see how their numbers look going forward. It might be us in 4-6 weeks.

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24 minutes ago, skillz said:

Quick update.  
After a lot of deliberation and discussion with my wife and mom I decided to fly down and drive my mom back.  So I’m sitting at the airport now.  It’s a ghost town.  Two people at security.   I bet I will have about 10 people tops on my plane.  I’ve brought a face mask, hand sanitizer and Clorox wipes.  I will wear the mask,  wipe stuff down, and not touch anything.  When I get to my mom’s I plan on going right to the shower and putting my clothes in the washer.  
 

Not an ideal solution but the best I came up with.  At least it’s a direct flight and if it’s not real crowded I can get social distancing.  It’s only a two and a half hour flight.  
 

Anyway when I left my wife was completely bawling.  She doesn’t want me or my mom to get the virus.  My mom is 70 so she is in the at risk group.  I’m in my 40s and could better recover but the whole context for me is that my dad just died of a terrible lung disease.  There’s no studies yet on what this virus will do if someone recovers and the long term effects on the lungs.  So my wife doesn’t want me to end up going out like my dad just did someday (and frankly neither do I).  
 

So I would appreciate it if everyone here would keep sending me positive vibes and prayers to get me through these next few days.  I’m sure my dad will be looking over me too....

Condolences, skillz. Travel safely. 

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