OPI Call On George Kittle In Super Bowl - Correct?

[Anarchy99 6,135]

1 minute ago, Manster said:

The NFL made it to where DB's couldn't even breath on receivers without a PI call.....at least the pendulum is swinging back some.

We have the Saints to thank for that. With the potential to challenge a non DPI call, I think the refs started calling fewer of them this year. Just like many other changes in the rules (what is a catch? what is a fumble? what is helmet to helmet? what is roughing the passer?), they need to find a way to be consistent. As others have mentioned, they weren't calling much for penalties but picked the OPI on Kittle as the one to call. IMO, he did push off . . . put there were several other plays that players got held or had their progress impeded and the refs swallowed their whistles.

[Statorama 2,883]

If a defender had done that to an offensive player, he would have been called

Well....nothing is certain with Vinovich's crew since the Saints debacle

[Statorama 2,883]

1 minute ago, Anarchy99 said:

We have the Saints to thank for that. 

No, we have the Saints getting screwed to thank for that.

[Doug B 6,571]

10 minutes ago, Statorama said:

13 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

We have the Saints to thank for that. 

No, we have the Saints getting screwed to thank for that.

I love the idea that going on a complaint warpath after the worst call in American sports history was somehow incorrect. Why does the official who looked at and still missed the call go blameless?

[Anarchy99 6,135]

Interesting enough, if anyone should be outraged by the Kittle play last night it should be Saints fans. Was what Kittle did any different than what Rudolph did a few weeks ago?

[Smack Tripper 2,747]

2019 absolutely correct

Prior to this year, we can talk about it.

5 or more years ago, never ever called

[JPPT1974 3]

Sadly that PI call cost them the game there. Just saying!

[FreeBaGeL 8,816]

22 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Interesting enough, if anyone should be outraged by the Kittle play last night it should be Saints fans. Was what Kittle did any different than what Rudolph did a few weeks ago?

This one was worse, but they both should have been called.

[Manster 759]

4 minutes ago, JPPT1974 said:

Sadly that PI call cost them the game there. Just saying!

No, the playcalling cost them the game.  They should have run the ball every down like they did against the Packers.

[Doug B 6,571]

32 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Interesting enough, if anyone should be outraged by the Kittle play last night it should be Saints fans. Was what Kittle did any different than what Rudolph did a few weeks ago?

IMHO, the Kittle push-off wasn't a whole lot. Before a few years ago, plays like that were never called OPI.

OPI, in general, was once a pretty rare penalty. You might watch a whole season of football on TV back in the 1980s-90s -- your team's games plus all the prime-time games -- and might be able to count all the OPI calls you saw on one hand.

[Capella 29,482]

1 hour ago, JPPT1974 said:

Sadly that PI call cost them the game there. Just saying!

It’s more sad their terrible QB cost them the game. 

[Joe Bryant 10,272]

As to the "why is this a thread?" questions, it's a thread as i hear people talking about it and when I hear that, I'll often post the question here to ask your opinion on it.  

Seems like it's been a good thread. 

[Joe Bryant 10,272]

FWIW, with a little over 1,000 votes on the same question to my Twitter feed, more people on Twitter seem to think it was a bad call.  

https://twitter.com/Football_Guys/status/1224333090543239168?s=20

I personally thought it was close, but the correct call. 

[Joe Bryant 10,272]

800 votes so far on the Footballguys Facebook page on the same question. https://www.facebook.com/footballguys/posts/10158052503528535?comment_id=10158052535488535

[Ketamine Dreams 738]

2 hours ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Like any day when Gronk played the Colts?

Gronk made his living pushing off

[Joe Bryant 10,272]

FWIW, the Footballguys Facebook Shark Pool Group is more in line with the forum here. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Footballguys.NFL.Shark.Pool/

 

[lod001 5,406]

Who else called it when it happened?  I was like "that's gonna be a OPI....where's the flag?" Then they said there was a flag and I said OPI. 

[zed2283 585]

Whether or not they ever called it, this has always been pass interference.

I'm glad they call more offensive pass interference than they used to.

[tjnc09 2,712]

3 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Interesting enough, if anyone should be outraged by the Kittle play last night it should be Saints fans. Was what Kittle did any different than what Rudolph did a few weeks ago?

https://twitter.com/TonyClementsTC/status/1224137133084024834

Who knows?

[Pigskin Fanatic 570]

i didn't see where the ref was standing who called it, so depending on his angle it could have looked even more blatant so like so many people stated, close, but not a bad call. Kittle fully extended his arm, so between that and the shoulder movement by the defender, ref would have seen those two movements as an easy call especially if he was behind the play away from the sideline. thinking most people saying "good call bad call" are going by the angle they showed on TV, but probably not what the ref saw.

and totally agree with the folks saying this exact play probably goes uncalled more than half the time during games. it's under the microscope now because there were really no other real controversial plays in this game (kudos to the refs) and SF ended up losing (because Jimmy G sucks as expected by some of us ).

[Stinkin Ref 1,297]

The key is the extension of the arm.....you just can’t do it....as a ref myself these are really no brainers....and very easy calls...its kind of the same as an offensive player in basketball....when you extend the arm and displace the other player and gain separation you are gaining an advantage....often a huge difference making advantage....

[Anarchy99 6,135]

25 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

The key is the extension of the arm.....you just can’t do it....as a ref myself these are really no brainers....and very easy calls...its kind of the same as an offensive player in basketball....when you extend the arm and displace the other player and gain separation you are gaining an advantage....often a huge difference making advantage....

Isn't that exactly what Rudolph did against the Saints?

[Statorama 2,883]

4 hours ago, Doug B said:

IMHO, the Kittle push-off wasn't a whole lot. Before a few years ago, plays like that were never called OPI.

OPI, in general, was once a pretty rare penalty. You might watch a whole season of football on TV back in the 1980s-90s -- your team's games plus all the prime-time games -- and might be able to count all the OPI calls you saw on one hand.

I was telling my nephews that Michael Irvin would have been limited to about 20 catches a year if pushing off was called.  Then they said "who"?

[lod001 5,406]

3 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Isn't that exactly what Rudolph did against the Saints?

Yep and they missed that call.

[Stinkin Ref 1,297]

3 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Isn't that exactly what Rudolph did against the Saints?

Yep...

[kutta 5,497]

8 hours ago, Da Guru said:

We have all seen in called and not called.   Kittle did put his arm out but it was not as bad as Kyle Rudolph's no call push off during OT in the Minny-Saints game. 

Exactly. Consistency is key. How can one of these be called and the other not. It was  pretty much the same thing.

[Stinkin Ref 1,297]

9 minutes ago, kutta said:

Exactly. Consistency is key. How can one of these be called and the other not. It was  pretty much the same thing.

Different refs.....possibly different angles.....differing opinions of severity....refs aren’t robots even tho people think they are or should be....so you will always have inconsistencies......and I think the timing of the Rudolph play was a factor.....NFL head quarters could have changed the Rudolph call but they chose not to for some reason....

[efactor 792]

23 minutes ago, kutta said:

Exactly. Consistency is key. How can one of these be called and the other not. It was  pretty much the same thing.

My biggest issue is that they were letting everything go and then they call this.  Just hand fighting, which has been allowed most of the year.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by efactor

[kutta 5,497]

16 minutes ago, efactor said:

My biggest issue is that they were letting everything go and then they call this.  Just hand fighting, which has been allowed most of the year.

 

 

I agree, I think. But my biggest issue is that they are such similar plays in huge games and one gets called and the other doesn’t.

[snogger 2,922]

10 hours ago, Ditkaless Wonders said:

Called it during live action before the flag came out.  Just a bit too blatant.

was telling the wife, "they better thro"... then the flag came.. If you extend your arm and you see the shoulder pads shoved back you have to throw it.. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by snogger

[efactor 792]

32 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

that wasnt hand fighting. please...

Sure it was. Way worse PIs in the game that weren't called.

Of course, you were neutral in this game, so I guess we will just accept your viewpoint as fact.  

[Stinkin Ref 1,297]

1 hour ago, efactor said:

My biggest issue is that they were letting everything go and then they call this.  Just hand fighting, which has been allowed most of the year.

 

 

You seriously thought that was just hand fighting......?..

[efactor 792]

29 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

You seriously thought that was just hand fighting......?..

Well, not enough to call a penalty when they let much worse go the whole game.

The entire playoffs seemed like they were letting a lot go, which I am fine with.  Then they call this.  

Before you start with the "it was obvious" spiel, a lot of feedback was that it was ticky tack, so just because it was called and and you agree with it doesn't make it the right call.   The non call on Sanders had a lot more contact and I didn't have an issue with letting that one go.  Big fan of letting them play.  

 

[efactor 792]

1 minute ago, Dr. Dan said:

wow passive aggressive much?

Hand slapping is not pushing a guy on his should pads enough to see his upper body move during live action. watch it in slow motion all you want, live it was absolutely 100% the right call and wasnt hand slapping. 

Ah no.  

That type of contact hasn't been called all playoffs.  Same with offensive holding.  Short of tackling the pass rushers, O-lineman are getting away with murder.  Again, no problem with it as long as they are letting it go on both sides, which has been the case.  Compared to the contact on Sanders that wasn't called, it was minimal.  

 

 

[efactor 792]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

 clearly in the minority here though. 

LOL

Well, since it's a pretty small sample size, most of whom had a rooting interest in the game, I'm not too concerned.  

[Stinkin Ref 1,297]

30 minutes ago, efactor said:

Well, not enough to call a penalty when they let much worse go the whole game.

The entire playoffs seemed like they were letting a lot go, which I am fine with.  Then they call this.  

Before you start with the "it was obvious" spiel, a lot of feedback was that it was ticky tack, so just because it was called and and you agree with it doesn't make it the right call.   The non call on Sanders had a lot more contact and I didn't have an issue with letting that one go.  Big fan of letting them play.  

 

The whole game....?....it wasn’t even half time yet.....guess I’m not sure what other plays (besides the Sanders one) you are referring to as far as them letting “much worse” go.....what other plays was there something “much worse”.....I don’t recall a bunch more....not even one really.....

one of my pet peeves....(maybe it’s because I am an official) is when people say....”let them play”.....I’m not exactly sure what that is supposed to mean......seems like you are putting officials in a bad spot.....they can’t win either way.....the officials “let them play” last year in the Rams/NO game and everybody heads explode.....they “let them play” on the Rudolph play and people freak out.....now they make a call and people freak out.....how exactly are they supposed to figure out “let them play”....

[efactor 792]

14 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

The whole game....?....it wasn’t even half time yet.....guess I’m not sure what other plays (besides the Sanders one) you are referring to as far as them letting “much worse” go.....what other plays was there something “much worse”.....I don’t recall a bunch more....not even one really.....

one of my pet peeves....(maybe it’s because I am an official) is when people say....”let them play”.....I’m not exactly sure what that is supposed to mean......seems like you are putting officials in a bad spot.....they can’t win either way.....the officials “let them play” last year in the Rams/NO game and everybody heads explode.....they “let them play” on the Rudolph play and people freak out.....now they make a call and people freak out.....how exactly are they supposed to figure out “let them play”....

You can’t be serious comparing the missed call in the Rams/Saints game last year. Good reason peoples heads exploded on that play. 
 

Rudolph play is a perfect example of “letting them play”.  Much more of a penalty than the Kittle play and no call. I thought it was a good non call myself.  People “freak out” anymore about virtually any play with contact that doesn’t go their teams way, so you can’t put much into those takes.  The end of the SF/Seattle game had a play where people were “freaking out” because they didn’t call PI on Warner.  Another example of the league “letting them play”.  Again, way more contact than this play. Even as a Niner homer, had they called PI on Warner, I wouldn’t have #####ed. Well, probably would have, but they let it go. Then in the Super Bowl, in a game with only 9 penalties, only 3 of which were non pre snap variety (plus one illegal motion penalty which isn’t arbitrary) they call OPI on a play that wasn’t blatant. No call on the Sanders contact either. 

Bad call but part of football. This is a thread about opinions, so I stated mine. 
 

 

[Stinkin Ref 1,297]

1 hour ago, efactor said:

You can’t be serious comparing the missed call in the Rams/Saints game last year. Good reason peoples heads exploded on that play. 
 

Rudolph play is a perfect example of “letting them play”.  Much more of a penalty than the Kittle play and no call. I thought it was a good non call myself.  People “freak out” anymore about virtually any play with contact that doesn’t go their teams way, so you can’t put much into those takes.  The end of the SF/Seattle game had a play where people were “freaking out” because they didn’t call PI on Warner.  Another example of the league “letting them play”.  Again, way more contact than this play. Even as a Niner homer, had they called PI on Warner, I wouldn’t have #####ed. Well, probably would have, but they let it go. Then in the Super Bowl, in a game with only 9 penalties, only 3 of which were non pre snap variety (plus one illegal motion penalty which isn’t arbitrary) they call OPI on a play that wasn’t blatant. No call on the Sanders contact either. 

Bad call but part of football. This is a thread about opinions, so I stated mine. 
 

 

What were some of the “other” ones in this game that you said were “much worse that they let go the whole game”....(besides the Sanders one).....you make it sound like there were several of them in this game....

[chinawildman 290]

As a niners fan I thought the call was weak, but honestly don't care. I don't like how every win/loss eventually degrades into some deliberation about PI. 

[Doug B 6,571]

11 hours ago, efactor said:

You can’t be serious comparing the missed call in the Rams/Saints game last year. Good reason peoples heads exploded on that play. 

To this day, I believe the "let 'em play" mantra contributed to the way that non-call went down. That and the "don't decide the game on a penalty!" thing. The official, in the moment, forgot to make the obvious call.

[Yenrub 768]

On 2/3/2020 at 9:28 AM, Ditkaless Wonders said:

If this was the rule when Michael Irvin was playing he might not have had a single catch. Of course it wasn't so there is that.

I’m sure Mike would have had a few catches, but he definitely wouldn’t be in the HOF

[SaintsInDome2006 47,463]

It’s not the call, it’s the inconsistency in the calls, not just across all games but within the same game. The problem is refs seizing control of the game script. No Kittle was not going to be allowed to get a cheapo FGA or possible TD try for SF just before half. They can call it either way, that’s the point.

Edited February 4, 2020 by SaintsInDome2006

[Doug B 6,571]

3 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

It’s not the call, it’s the inconsistency in the calls, not just across all games but within the same game. The problem is refs seizing control of the game script.

It's crazy to me how many fans are seemingly comfortable with this, too.

Kinda makes sense, though. In any one game, you only have two of 32 fanbases truly engaged. If a bad call screws one team ... that's about 3.125% of all fans really being incensed -- with the other 96.875% telling them to "get over it".

[Ditkaless Wonders 16,250]

46 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

I’m sure Mike would have had a few catches, but he definitely wouldn’t be in the HOF

O.k. maybe a few.

[efactor 792]

9 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

there are far more SF fans than KC fans on this board...  

I think I can name one KC fan off the top of my head and im.not even sure if he posts anymore... (eta- he doesnt)

not to mention the team thread is THREE PAGES TOTAL for the last 5 years...... yeah... so many kc fans here 

Yeah, because only KC fans watched the super bowl, had a rooting interest in the game and comment here 🙄

[efactor 792]

9 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

yeah, you wont get even one example. it just makes him feel better to feel gypped 

Just stop. 
 

This is a specific thread about this one play and I gave my opinion. Because it didn’t line up with yours, you said I was wrong and I countered why I was right. 

Where do you get that I “feel gyped”?  I didn’t say the play cost them the game and in no other thread did I say the officiating was to blame for SF losing.  Didn’t mention the officiating once except to comment in a thread specifically about a specific play or to say I like the “let them play” mentality.  I just said that the call was inconsistent with how the rest of the game was called as the contact didn’t warrant a flag IMO.  
 

You seem to get your feelings hurt when people disagree with you.  Then you try to support your case that I’m wrong because a majority of people here agree with you.  Very scientific poll so I’ll spend some time reconsidering my viewpoint of the play 🙄

[efactor 792]

2 hours ago, Doug B said:

To this day, I believe the "let 'em play" mantra contributed to the way that non-call went down. That and the "don't decide the game on a penalty!" thing. The official, in the moment, forgot to make the obvious call.

I agree

My version of “let them play” is more call the blatant, obvious penalties that impact the play. The big non call in the Saints/Rams game was just Incompetence. Games early in the season this year were becoming hard to watch with all the penalties.  A lot of comments and complaints about that.  Maybe the NFL was listening because as the playoffs were approaching, seemed to be a dramatic drop in penalties, especially offensive holding.  There was a much more “let them play” mentality (to be fair, I am talking mainly about 49er games since those are the ones I watch closely).  The funny thing is I started to notice that even fairly obvious pre snap penalties were being missed.  As an example, In the SF/Saints game, on the 2nd Cook TD that he got concussed on, the left guard (#62) moved well before the play and no penalty. They kept showing the replay because of the injury and I kept waiting for the commentators to point the missed call out, but they never did.  
 

My rambling point is that there was a concentrated effort to reduce penalties in the last part of the regular season and playoffs. I think they took it a bit too far, especially with offensive holding. There was a play Sunday where Kelce was blocking Bosa one on one and he had handfuls of Bosa’s Jersey in each hand. No call.  In fact, counting week 17 against Seattle and the 3 playoff games, there was a grand total of 1 holding penalty called against SF pass rushers and that was against Seattle when the o-lineman pulled a WWE move on Armstead.  But, no complaints, prefer it that way to a penalty extravaganza. Then they call OPI on Kittle in that situation. Just think that was out of place in a game where there was only 9 penalties the whole game, most of which were pre snap. They even missed an obvious off sides against the Chiefs and multiple early false starts against Schwartz. 

Edit to add:  49ers also didn't get called for offensive holding the last 4 games either, so I didn't mean to imply it was one sided, just to point out that only obvious penalties were being called for the most part.

Edited February 4, 2020 by efactor

[Stinkin Ref 1,297]

48 minutes ago, efactor said:

Just stop. 
 

This is a specific thread about this one play and I gave my opinion. Because it didn’t line up with yours, you said I was wrong and I countered why I was right. 

Where do you get that I “feel gyped”?  I didn’t say the play cost them the game and in no other thread did I say the officiating was to blame for SF losing.  Didn’t mention the officiating once except to comment in a thread specifically about a specific play or to say I like the “let them play” mentality.  I just said that the call was inconsistent with how the rest of the game was called as the contact didn’t warrant a flag IMO.  
 

You seem to get your feelings hurt when people disagree with you.  Then you try to support your case that I’m wrong because a majority of people here agree with you.  Very scientific poll so I’ll spend some time reconsidering my viewpoint of the play 🙄

I’ll ask again.....where were the other ones that were “much worse during that whole game” before the Kittle play....(besides the Sanders one)......you made it seem like there were several.....so I am just asking where the others were because I do not recall them....

[Tool 1,588]

Not trying to pick a fight with those arguing for the penalty not to have been called but 1) as can see by poll results, the consensus which seems to be generally non-partisan is heavily tilted towards the call being correct and 2) This would've  been most likely a 3 point swing; I mean no one knows how the game would've played out but it was far from a game changing play.

[Stinkin Ref 1,297]

10 minutes ago, Tool said:

Not trying to pick a fight with those arguing for the penalty not to have been called but 1) as can see by poll results, the consensus which seems to be generally non-partisan is heavily tilted towards the call being correct and 2) This would've  been most likely a 3 point swing; I mean no one knows how the game would've played out but it was far from a game changing play.

Game changing....maybe not.....but I do think a score there by SF changes the mo a little to maybe a lot....and Shanahan almost got bailed out for not using his timeouts.....if they score even a FG there, he may still get some questions about not using the timeouts but not nearly as bad as it has been.....he initially showed very little confidence in his teams ability to go down and score at the end of the half while also letting them know he was scared of the other team being able to score with even less time......that OPI was probably going to be 3 points and change the narrative a little heading into and coming out of halftime...

either way.....it was an obvious OPI call.....pretty much a textbook case of exactly what pushing off and clearing space is about and what officials should be looking for.....he clearly extended the arm and created space and put the defender at a disadvantage.....can argue all day about how some other similar plays (Rudolph) were not called......but it doesn’t in any way shape or form make this the “wrong” call or something they should have “let go”....

Edited February 4, 2020 by Stinkin Ref