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NFL and Covid Issues - Initially Asked in Shark Pool To Keep it 100% NFL (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I’m incredibly impressed they pulled it off TBH.
it wasn’t perfect. The game rescheduling & near weekly “will they/won’t they” questions about players & games; the Wednesday night football (or Wednesday afternoon?) was kind of a cluster, but credit where due. I was a “10% chance” guy at the beginning of this topic, so yeah - it’s kind of amazing they managed to get a season played.
and really it seems like the only big outbreaks were because of irresponsible people breaking protocol. If all protocols had been followed 100% there would likely have been far less disruption.
it wasn’t perfect. The game rescheduling & near weekly “will they/won’t they” questions about players & games; the Wednesday night football (or Wednesday afternoon?) was kind of a cluster, but credit where due. I was a “10% chance” guy at the beginning of this topic, so yeah - it’s kind of amazing they managed to get a season played.
and really it seems like the only big outbreaks were because of irresponsible people breaking protocol. If all protocols had been followed 100% there would likely have been far less disruption.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Incredible.Faust said:
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The Frankman
Footballguy
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
themeistersinger
Footballguy
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/20/bills-expect-tommy-sweeney-back-after-developing-myocarditis-last-year/
Glad to hear this - apparently he is back to working out but not fully cleared yet.
Glad to hear this - apparently he is back to working out but not fully cleared yet.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Seems like a reasonable business decision. If they miss time with covid the team still has to pay them as well.
Im curious if a contract could be voided for conduct detrimental to the team. I know Taylor decker (lions lt) said he wouldn’t get vaccinated. Maybe he thinks he’s ok since most of the time he’s blocking air rather than a lineman.
Im curious if a contract could be voided for conduct detrimental to the team. I know Taylor decker (lions lt) said he wouldn’t get vaccinated. Maybe he thinks he’s ok since most of the time he’s blocking air rather than a lineman.
The Frankman
Footballguy
I want to also post Peter King's opinion of the practice in Faust's link since I think it's pretty spot-on:
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Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
It's a no-brainer that if marginal player A and marginal player B are competing for the same roster spot and haven't separated from each other by performance, if one is vaccinated and the other isn't, the nonvaccinated guy is getting the axe. The nonvaccinated guy presents obstacles for the team that the vaccinated guy doesn't, and marginal players aren't worth dealing with those obstacles.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
First: Though I know it’s happening, I cannot fathom a player in a team sport not getting vaccinated. Second: If a player chooses to not be vaccinated because of some right he feels he has to not be vaccinated, a team should have the right to cut that player if the team’s business is being made more difficult because of the presence of that player. Third: I guarantee players who are not vaccinated will be cut in part because they refuse to be vaccinated, and teams will try to hide it because it’s not politically correct.
-King's opinion and nothing more. God didn't speak and that statement only sounds good to a certain mindset of people. It doesn't make one ridiculous viewpoint any more right than the next one. Peter's entitled to his opinion, he frames it disingenuously by saying "I can't phathom" and King has been writing since Moby **** was a Minnow so believe me, he can fathom many things and I find it hard to believe he has no idea what some folks are feeling right now.
-Third part is scary but I understand $$$ and that's all the owners truly care about, it has nothing to do with being SJW owners or looking out for society, it's a simple accounting exercise for most of them.
Yo thought a lot of that section for a variety of reasons I'm sure, we don't have to dive deep but I was put off by that part of his column but chose when i read it not to post in here about it. You brought it up though
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
I am not sure what politics has to do with it. Although not as many there are liberals that are choosing not to get vaccinated as well as conservatives for a variety of reasons.First: Though I know it’s happening, I cannot fathom a player in a team sport not getting vaccinated. Second: If a player chooses to not be vaccinated because of some right he feels he has to not be vaccinated, a team should have the right to cut that player if the team’s business is being made more difficult because of the presence of that player. Third: I guarantee players who are not vaccinated will be cut in part because they refuse to be vaccinated, and teams will try to hide it because it’s not politically correct.
-King's opinion and nothing more. God didn't speak and that statement only sounds good to a certain mindset of people. It doesn't make one ridiculous political party more right than any other turkey party of politics in this country. Peter's entitles to his opinion, he frames it disingenuously by saying "I can't phathom" and King has been writing since Moby **** was a Minnow so believe me, he can fathom many things and I find it hard to believe he has no idea what some folks are feeling right now.
-Third part is scary but I understand $$$ and that's all the owners truly care about, it has nothing to do with being SJW owners or looking out for society, it's a simple accounting exercise for most of them.
Yo thought a lot of that section for a variety of reasons I'm sure, we don't have to dive deep but I was put off by that part of his column but chose when i read it not to post in here about it. You brought it up though
As you said it is an opinion piece, accept it or reject it, no big deal.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
"I can't fathom"
-He writes in that manner to take the onus of his own personal feelings, it's simple. Like you said, you can accept it or reject it. I enjoyed the other 99% of his column and will continue to tune in some weeks but I also am forthcoming that Peter King is not the guy you turn to for Xs and Os type coverage, we can agree on that I'm sure.
All good GB, I understand.
BTW: I did snip the sentence out about politics even though that is exactly why it was spotlighted out of that article but I can bend a little
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The Frankman
Footballguy
I didn't spotlight it because it's "politics", I spotlighted it because I feel it's going to be a popular topic come this summer. I'll take it a step further than @Pip's Invitation: I think if it comes down to a marginal vaccinated player and a ok un-vaccinated player, teams may just cut the ok unvacc'd player if they have a ok vacc'd replacement and there are enough other intangibles (salary, playing special teams, etc.). That's how important these meetings are and I feel it's going to be a big NFL issue because some player is going to get pissy about it when they get cut..
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
This is a weird take - it's pretty clear that it is his own personal opinion and speculation on his part. What's disingenuous about his statement? Nothing.
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
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The Frankman
Footballguy
Goddamit he beat me to it. I was JUST getting this ready and I noticed Faust in the thread and was like "He's not posting what I'm posting, right? Nahhh..."
Actually I was going to include King's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th point also. I get it's just his opinion, but it goes to the heart of the piece.
Actually I was going to include King's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th point also. I get it's just his opinion, but it goes to the heart of the piece.
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The Frankman
Footballguy
Note it's 50% of the team but it doesn't mention staff/players. It could be like a ton of coaches vaccinated but only 30% of the players.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Nice. This is the trend I expect; coaching staffs will be fully vaccinated since it contains a much older (and more immuno-compromised demographic).
GordonGekko
Footballguy
This is about money, first and foremost. Everything the NFL does and the league office does is drive by money. Do we need to argue this point?
If the NFL has 100 percent vaccinations in all players, coaches, team staff, front offices, media personnel, security, stadium employees, etc, etc, then they can try to sell "confidence" to many fans that it's safe to go back to live football games.
Consider even if it hit 100 percent, lots of fans aren't coming back. Even those vaccinated, some will just not trust anything or anyone. All professional sports took a massive blow in revenue from the pandemic. This doesn't even include the staggering number of fans lost for things not related to the pandemic.
You have a choice, but really you don't. That's the message. By law, the NFL cannot take the choice away from players. However if you don't make the choice they like, they will make you wish you did.
I used to love old Peter King, years and years ago, when he would risk provoking the establishment in the NFL for the sake of journalism. Now he's a mouth piece for the league office. I get why but it's disappointing.
If the league office cared about the player's health, they would have done more than bury the CTE findings they had for a long time. They also would have done more for retired NFL players who were clearly suffering badly, and some even destitute. They will care when it makes them money to care or costs them so much money otherwise where they don't have a choice.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
This is actually a pretty interesting question. The safe "lawyer answer" is it depends on the specific contract. But this isn't just going to be an issue in a court of law, this will also be battled in the "Court Of Public Opinion"
If I put on my media optics/crisis management hat, the problem is simple math. Given any vaccine of any kind, and particularly one rolling out at this speed, volume and reach, some people will die from it. This is a statistical reality. How many? That's going to be hard to say. Since the only way to effectively record a death given a COVID19 vaccine is if the person died right there on the table just after you gave them the vaccine. The other issue is that a large section of the general public will believe any COVID19 related numbers are going to be cooked, and honestly, no one can blame them. You can't have this much information pouring out, with so many different agendas at work, to avoid having masses of people with trepidation.
If NFL players won't take the vaccine, the immediate narrative their agent and representation will give them is to point out that no one knows the long term impact of taking the vaccine and there are going to be isolated example cases of people dying, not just the elderly where it's hard to rule out the vaccine.
i.e.
https://kutv.com/news/local/utah-woman-39-dies-4-days-after-2nd-does-of-covid-19-vaccine-autopsy-ordered
https://www.newsweek.com/covid-vaccine-deaths-cause-pfizer-moderna-fact-check-966-died-1574447
The NFL league office doesn't want that public narrative. NFL players talking about people dying, even in rare cases, of the vaccine. That only freaks out more fans from never returning to football games. Which is money, and as we all understand, the league office is all about money, all the time.
So what will happen?
If you are related to the NFL, it's sponsors, or have some relationship with the league, you'll be pressured to silence anyone saying anything other than take the vaccine. YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and Reddit comments and posts will magically disappear overnight. Sports pundits will be pressured to toe a specific "company line" The league office will pressure the apparel brands to pressure their endorsed players to take a specific position for compulsory vaccination. People will lose their jobs, be silenced, be banned, be deleted, be deplatformed and be doxxed if they oppose the "Most Money For The NFL" storyline. If I worked for the NFL and ran their media, it's what I would do. ( Point to note, if I did it, it would be subtle, the league office now has some pretty mediocre media people, I can see it being rolled out and being very sloppy)
From a legal standpoint, no rational NFL franchise would make that move in public and in the open. Trying to find a way to void a contract for conduct for not wanting to take the vaccine. Peter King is basically telling all NFL players the "or else" in his last article. You all have rights! Except if we don't like your choice!
From a moral standpoint, well I don't think there is one honestly. The NFL and it's owners and league office and brands and sponsors and the networks don't care about the players' health. They just don't. It's laced in every action we've seen related around the NFL our entire lives. Money first, money always.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
What? You are either vaccinated or you aren't. Saying someone is "in the process" is another way of saying they aren't.
The Frankman
Footballguy
I interpreted it as having the first shot but not the 2nd (if 2 shots) or not past the 2-week post-vaccination period.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
The Frankman said:
The NFLCA and the AFCA are both coaches organizations that are effectively toothless and have zero real bargaining power.
Bob LaMonte of PSR tried very very hard for a long time to get together a functional union for the coaches but he was effectively shut down. I'm surprised the NFL owners didn't send Amy Trask to go to his house with a couple of hitters and see if a man can survive being thrown off of a bridge. Well, no, you see, he drove himself to the bridge, duct taped himself to bind his arms and legs together, gagged himself, then punched himself with a tire iron 35 times and then jumped off a bridge, your Honor.
Make no mistake, it's all money, all the time, and there are people who will do anything to make more money hand over fist.
Years and years ago, Bobb McKittrick and I discussed in depth the issue of the challenges of being an NFL coach and to have essentially "no tether" from any formal collective bargaining.
NFL coaches, barring the rare exception like an Angry Bill Belichick, can fall in line, or they can fall period.
I got word a few days ago that, at this point, at minimum, NFL related Reddit has enacted a full silent and quick purge of anyone showing trepidation to the vaccine.
How would it apply to us here? Honestly, I hope Sigmund Bloom and the rest, where some have livelihoods here at stake related to football/NFL/fantasy/daily Fanduel,etc, here simply walk away from the topic. You say the wrong thing, in the wrong way or just something in the wrong context and the NFL league office will seek to crush you. Lots of NFL players to talk about, people can wait to talk about Josh Allen later.
NFL player really are the last true gladiators of our society. To the NFL corporate machine, they are just meat to the grinder. I have zero doubt in my mind if the NFL owners were told they could get 10 million a franchise for burning their practice squad players alive, it would be Shireen Baratheon Deluxe times thirty two.
The Frankman
Footballguy
... how did any of what you said apply to the NFL:again?
GordonGekko
Footballguy
NFL coaches have no bargaining power and close to no protection. This is evident when there is a labor dispute and many coaches and their families are left out to the wind. Lower level coaches don't get paid if they don't work and they don't work in a labor dispute. Many are fighting for their jobs year to year and many have to rely on others ( established coaches, family, others in the industry) to just get by. The Jim Tomsula story ( he lived in his car) is not uncommon for lower level coaches. Many can only get by with food by eating at the team facilities. Many were also likely impacted by the pandemic ( Loss of work and/or the risk of loss of work of others in their household and then what to do with their kids with schools closed)
Guys like Norv Turner or Wade Phillips or the like, those who are established, they aren't going to starve, but the majority are constantly under the gun.
In that situation, the law says you don't have to take the vaccine. But if you are not completely indispensable ( how many coaches can say that besides Belichick and a few others?), you toe that line or lose your job.
The NFL power structure and employment system is not like the rest of America - it's a modified feudal system.
Your statement has much truth in it, many coaches are older and in higher risk groups and are statistically "safer" in theory by taking the vaccine. But it loses all the context.
The NFL is all about money and it's the main theme all the time. The best way to get back to the old profit model is if 100 percent of all players, coaches, trainers, media, support staff, stadium employees, contractors, etc, etc are vaccinated. Even if some die, even if some don't have the vaccine work, even if some have horrible side effects, even if some are resistant to the vaccine, it's not about safety of the players or the people, it's just so 100 percent can be a marketing narrative for the league.
And opening up the NFL fully is not just on the owners, it's an issue for the respective city and state as well. 100 percent coverage is a safe decision for a Mayor or a Governor to move past all profit killing restrictions. Even if people die, they can say 100 percent got the shot, so you can't blame us.
How does any of this NOT apply to the NFL?
Catbird
Footballguy
Please take this to the political forum or someplace else where people think science is a political choice.
IheartGuinness
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
That was fast. Hopefully it's a false positive.
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OldMilwaukee
IBL Representative
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Smh. And sure seems like Allen didn’t get vaccinated either. The Bills are going to be at a disadvantage all year. If they have key guys miss games at some point because of Covid, they would prove themselves to be a really dumb team.OldMilwaukee said:
