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Georgia: the Battle for the Senate (1 Viewer)

timschochet said:
We will get an infrastructure bill done. A bigger stimulus package. MAYBE some improvements to Obamacare, MAYBE some moderate immigration reform, MAYBE some reasonable gun restrictions, MAYBE a partial reverse of Trump’s tax cuts. 
 

But nothing radical, nothing socialist, nothing extreme. Not gonna happen. 
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Don't you only get one shot of a reconciliation bill per fiscal year?  Unless you cheat and do the current FY and the next FY like how the GOP tried to get the ACA replacement through at the same time as the tax cuts?

If true, as much as I hate combining stuff into one big bill I think that these first three are going to be in one or maybe two bills.  As for the stimulus I wonder if democrats learned their lessons from the slow recovery in 2010?   Sure ACA was a big part of the losses, but I guess that for the stimulus there is soon going to be calls to "go big or go home".

ETA:  Add in reversal of tax cuts, except I don't think that happens in a down economy.

 
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Actual President's Press Secretary:

Kayleigh McEnany @kayleighmcenany · 9m

Does anyone truly believe that an anti-military, anti-police, Fidel Castro-inviting, Reverend Wright-loving Marxist embroiled in a child abuse scandal won fairly in the state of Georgia?

I DON’T ‼️

 
Sinn Fein said:
Actual President's Press Secretary:

Kayleigh McEnany @kayleighmcenany · 9m

Does anyone truly believe that an anti-military, anti-police, Fidel Castro-inviting, Reverend Wright-loving Marxist embroiled in a child abuse scandal won fairly in the state of Georgia?

I DON’T ‼️
Click to expand...
This is the rhetoric we must overcome to heal the country. I fear we're going to be in for 4 years of this however.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Actual President's Press Secretary:

Kayleigh McEnany @kayleighmcenany · 9m

Does anyone truly believe that an anti-military, anti-police, Fidel Castro-inviting, Reverend Wright-loving Marxist embroiled in a child abuse scandal won fairly in the state of Georgia?

I DON’T ‼️
Click to expand...
Hey Kayleigh:  it doesn't matter what you believe.  

 
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Sinn Fein said:
Actual President's Press Secretary:

Kayleigh McEnany @kayleighmcenany · 9m

Does anyone truly believe that an anti-military, anti-police, Fidel Castro-inviting, Reverend Wright-loving Marxist embroiled in a child abuse scandal won fairly in the state of Georgia?

I DON’T ‼️
Click to expand...
Who is she talking about?

 
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Doug B said:
In case someone tries to harp on this (debunking at link😞

On July 31, 2002, Warnock, who was 33 at the time, and Reverend Mark Wainwright of Douglas Memorial Community Church were charged with hindering a law enforcement investigation into suspected child abuse at a camp near Baltimore run by a church. Warnock was a pastor at the church. Neither were suspects in the probe, according to the Baltimore Sun.

Warnock and Wainwright were accused in court filings to have interrupted authorities interviewing a counselor at the camp as part of the probe. The documents stated that Warnock also attempted to prevent a teen witness from disclosing details of another potential witness to police.

Warnock said he wanted lawyers to be in the room during the interviews and denied that he committed any wrongdoing. "Reverend Wainwright and I acted well within the framework of the law, and I am confident that we will be exonerated. It's just unfortunate that our children had to see their pastors carried away in handcuffs," he said at the time, according to the Sun.

Three months later, on October 30, 2002, a judge dismissed all charges against Warnock and Wainwright in connection with the case following a prosecutor's request. "What we decided was there was some miscommunication that had occurred with them. They were very helpful with the continued investigation. It would not have been a prudent use of resources to have prosecuted them," the prosecutor said, according to PolitiFact.
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If this is what she was referring to, that is a disgusting tweet.

 
Ooh, the Fidel Castro thing against Warnock is also false:

Kelly Loeffler: Says Raphael Warnock “celebrated Fidel Castro and welcomed him to his church.”


PolitiFact’s ruling: Mostly False

Here’s why: When Fidel Castro, the late communist leader of Cuba, spoke at Abyssinian Baptist Church in New York City in 1995, he was welcomed by cheers from a crowd of 1,300 and a hug from Harlem’s Democratic congressman, Charles Rangel.

"We have one of the great leaders of the world with us today," said the church’s pastor, the Rev. Calvin Butts, who was then interrupted by more cheers.

The Rev. Raphael Warnock, then the youth pastor at Abyssinian, was not on the dais.

But 25 years later, his connection to the church has been injected into a Jan. 5 election that will help determine which party controls the U.S. Senate.

Warnock, now pastor of the Atlanta church where the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. once preached, is the Democratic challenger to Sen. Kelly Loeffler, R-Ga. With a guilt-by-association attack, Loeffler made this claim in a Nov. 10 tweet:

"@ReverendWarnock celebrated Fidel Castro & welcomed him to his church. It’s another example of what we’ve been saying all along: He’s the most dangerous and radical candidate in America."

Warnock’s campaign has been vague about whether he attended the event, which was front-page news in the New York Times on Oct. 23, 1995.

But there is no evidence Warnock was involved in arranging Castro’s appearance or welcoming him. And a Fox News article about Warnock and the event, which Loeffler included with her tweet, says only that Warnock worked at Abyssinian at the time.
 
Sinn Fein said:
Actual President's Press Secretary:

Kayleigh McEnany @kayleighmcenany · 9m

Does anyone truly believe that an anti-military, anti-police, Fidel Castro-inviting, Reverend Wright-loving Marxist embroiled in a child abuse scandal won fairly in the state of Georgia?

I DON’T ‼️
Click to expand...
It was written to imply that she doesn't believe it because she doesn't think he won, but she can always defend herself saying that she doesn't believe it because all the other stuff is made up. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
Probably just me - but I actually don't buy this narrative.

I think turnout for this run-off was historically high - particularly for a stand-alone run-off election.

I don't think "recent" Trump played a big part in voters decisions here - on either side.  I do think the cumulative Trump era played an oversized role.

I also think people are ignoring how poor Loeffler and Perdue were as candidates.  They were not Roy Moore level bad, but they were not much better.  

Yes, things devolved rather rapidly over the last few weeks - but there were lots of factors the led up to this.  And, in the end, these results largely mirrored the November presidential election breakdown - suggesting people's party allegiances really did not change in the last couple of months.
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My comment on turnout is democratic turnout compared to November vs republican turnout since then

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
The difference between Trump and Biden is that Trump believe he knows it all and Biden knows that he [Biden] does not.   Recognizing what one does not know is what is needed right now.   No more "What do you have to lose". 
Click to expand...
Some things I'm sure we won't hear from Biden:

"I alone can fix it!"

"I know more about ISIS than the generals do."

"I know more about courts than any human being on Earth."

"[N]obody knows the system better than me. I know the H1B. I know the H2B. ... Nobody else on this dais knows how to change it like I do, believe me."

"Nobody knows more about trade than me."

 
Amused to Death said:
Some things I'm sure we won't hear from Biden:

"I alone can fix it!"

"I know more about ISIS than the generals do."

"I know more about courts than any human being on Earth."

"[N]obody knows the system better than me. I know the H1B. I know the H2B. ... Nobody else on this dais knows how to change it like I do, believe me."

"Nobody knows more about trade than me."
Click to expand...
"The virus will just magically disappear!"

 
I'm still a little stunned that both Arizona and Georgia will have voted for a Democrat for President and have 2 Democratic Senators.  I don't know how reproducible those results are in the future, but it has to scare non-Trumpian Republicans.

 
timschochet said:
We will get an infrastructure bill done. A bigger stimulus package. MAYBE some improvements to Obamacare, MAYBE some moderate immigration reform, MAYBE some reasonable gun restrictions, MAYBE a partial reverse of Trump’s tax cuts. 
 

But nothing radical, nothing socialist, nothing extreme. Not gonna happen. 
Click to expand...
You forgot one very important thing: sanity and stability in our foreign affairs once again. Our friends won't be abandoned anymore and our enemies will not be given a pass to do whatever they want, particularly Russia.

Oh, and climbing back on board the climate change movement that we completely abandoned.

Things are looking up. Knock on wood.

 
Osaurus said:
She has truly done a remarkable job in Georgia for the Dems. She could have disappeared into the nebulous ether after she lost her bid for Governor, but it motivated her even more and if the Dems are smart, they will make her a fixture in the DNC (if she wants it).
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Pretty sure I was on record several times saying I wish Biden had selected her and not Kamala.  Still feel that way but this is a nice consolation prize.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Actual President's Press Secretary:

Kayleigh McEnany @kayleighmcenany · 9m

Does anyone truly believe that an anti-military, anti-police, Fidel Castro-inviting, Reverend Wright-loving Marxist embroiled in a child abuse scandal won fairly in the state of Georgia?

I DON’T ‼️
Click to expand...
Classy as always.

 
Georgia elections official Gabe Sterling (just now at presser carried on MSNBC):

"No evidence of any irregularities. The biggest thing we've seen is from the president's fertile mind of finding fraud where none exists."

"The president continues to say, 'oh, they're finding ballots, these ... came out of nowhere.' No. We have known that DeKalb County had 171,000 ballots since Friday evening, Saturday morning. So the statements he keeps opening up there are incorrect."

"You know what else didn't happen? Dominion machines did not flip votes for Joe Biden."

 
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Sammy3469 said:
I'm still a little stunned that both Arizona and Georgia will have voted for a Democrat for President and have 2 Democratic Senators.  I don't know how reproducible those results are in the future, but it has to scare non-Trumpian Republicans.
Click to expand...
My guess is that non-Trumpian Republicans know that the GOP needed its nose broken if they're going to have any future in the party.  

 
As a Democrat I’m 50/50 on this Senate win. Part of me is interested to see the moderate Dems have to go at it with the bat-#### crazy far left Dems. 

 
IvanKaramazov said:
My guess is that non-Trumpian Republicans know that the GOP needed its nose broken if they're going to have any future in the party.  
Click to expand...
IK, as someone who identifies strongly as a Conservative, where do you see this going?  I think we are about the same age and somewhat similar politics (at least in the past) - I think my anger over what has happened has clouded my judgement on what will happen.  I think Trump will destroy the GOP and sometimes I wonder if it's just wishcasting on my part because I'm so disgusted.

ETA - and I know you are a Libertarian but lean Conservative in a lot of ways

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Doug B said:
Ooh, the Fidel Castro thing against Warnock is also false:

Kelly Loeffler: Says Raphael Warnock “celebrated Fidel Castro and welcomed him to his church.”

PolitiFact’s ruling: Mostly False

Here’s why: When Fidel Castro, the late communist leader of Cuba, spoke at Abyssinian Baptist Church in New York City in 1995, he was welcomed by cheers from a crowd of 1,300 and a hug from Harlem’s Democratic congressman, Charles Rangel.

"We have one of the great leaders of the world with us today," said the church’s pastor, the Rev. Calvin Butts, who was then interrupted by more cheers.

The Rev. Raphael Warnock, then the youth pastor at Abyssinian, was not on the dais.

But 25 years later, his connection to the church has been injected into a Jan. 5 election that will help determine which party controls the U.S. Senate.

Warnock, now pastor of the Atlanta church where the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. once preached, is the Democratic challenger to Sen. Kelly Loeffler, R-Ga. With a guilt-by-association attack, Loeffler made this claim in a Nov. 10 tweet:

"@ReverendWarnock celebrated Fidel Castro & welcomed him to his church. It’s another example of what we’ve been saying all along: He’s the most dangerous and radical candidate in America."

Warnock’s campaign has been vague about whether he attended the event, which was front-page news in the New York Times on Oct. 23, 1995.

But there is no evidence Warnock was involved in arranging Castro’s appearance or welcoming him. And a Fox News article about Warnock and the event, which Loeffler included with her tweet, says only that Warnock worked at Abyssinian at the time.
Click to expand...
A Fidel story I like to share: On a trip to Cuba several years ago, I was able to have a conversation with the lead pastor of First Presbyterian Church in Havana.  He told me how Fidel had been generally open to a variety of religions and had written a book that addressed this.  Father Hector had been out of the country when the book came out, so he got the book and stayed up for a couple of nights reading it before returning home.  After returning to Cuba, he was at a meeting with Fidel and a number of Cuban church leaders.  In the meeting, Father Hector made comments about "commandant, in your book, you said this ..and you said that."  Fidel got a little pissed, since the book was not yet available in Cuba, and responded, "You Christians!  You are like ants!  You know everything and you see everything!"  

 
AAABatteries said:
IK, as someone who identifies strongly as a Conservative, where do you see this going?  I think we are about the same age and somewhat similar politics (at least in the past) - I think my anger over what has happened has clouded my judgement on what will happen.  I think Trump will destroy the GOP and sometimes I wonder if it's just wishcasting on my part because I'm so disgusted.
Click to expand...
You did not ask me, but that has never stopped me from offering an opinion.

I think Trumpism is a "disease", and I think when Trump is rooted out, Trumpism will go with him.  He has a very magnetic personality - and I don't see anyone in his orbit that has that kind of appeal to be able to keep it up.  And, I think when he is out of power, he will lose most of the political fringe hanger-ons.

I think you will see the more establishment conservatives, like Liz Cheney, and Romney, step to the forefront and lead a revival of conservative priorities.  You will see some like Graham or McConnell who will go back to claiming they never supported Trump.  Eventually, the populism will die down - because, quite frankly, its not very popular amongst the country as a whole.

Now, whether the traditional conservative movement can win elections, might very well come down to whether the left-wing of the Democrats rises up (and thus creates opportunity for the right to oppose), or whether Biden can maintain control as a centrist.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
My guess is that non-Trumpian Republicans know that the GOP needed its nose broken if they're going to have any future in the party.  
Click to expand...
Maybe, but I'm guessing McConnell/Cornyn's of the world and the Cruz/Hawley's of the world thought they could thread the needle.  Not passing the $2K checks was a McConnell own-goal and sets up an easy win for the Biden.  Easy governing wins build up over time.

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
Da Guru said:
Up 167 is through the roof?

In a few weeks we will see how the markets actually fare. That will tell the tale.  Hopefully they keep a steady growth.
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Good point.  The Dow was down 600 at one point yesterday and was down 150 this morning.  % wise doesn't mean squat but it seems to me that investors have warmed up to the idea of a democrat senate instead of "SOCIALISM!!!! THEY WILL TAKE EVERYTHING YOU OWN!!!!"

In the beforetimes I would 100% agree with you on the bolded but what's going on with this new strain of Covid, more lock downs, not to mention in LA, who know what happens.  Personally, I think it's a poor time to be not be more precise on the equities you own in this environment.  Too many are overpriced IMHO.
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I think today is a good sign that Mr. Market likes the election outcomes.  However, I stand by the bolded and caution should be warranted.

 
One said:
As a Democrat I’m 50/50 on this Senate win. Part of me is interested to see the moderate Dems have to go at it with the bat-#### crazy far left Dems. 
Click to expand...
I'm a newly minted Trump democrat and I just want people to fulfill their obligations for the position they hold.  Actually try to help ALL Americans.  This  "not my fault, you're on your own, I'm going golfing" isn't acceptable.

 
Sinn Fein said:
You did not ask me, but that has never stopped me from offering an opinion.

I think Trumpism is a "disease", and I think when Trump is rooted out, Trumpism will go with him.  He has a very magnetic personality - and I don't see anyone in his orbit that has that kind of appeal to be able to keep it up.  And, I think when he is out of power, he will lose most of the political fringe hanger-ons.

I think you will see the more establishment conservatives, like Liz Cheney, and Romney, step to the forefront and lead a revival of conservative priorities.  You will see some like Graham or McConnell who will go back to claiming they never supported Trump.  Eventually, the populism will die down - because, quite frankly, its not very popular amongst the country as a whole.

Now, whether the traditional conservative movement can win elections, might very well come down to whether the left-wing of the Democrats rises up (and thus creates opportunity for the right to oppose), or whether Biden can maintain control as a centrist.
Click to expand...
For better or worse (definitely worse IMO) I just don't see the Trump support disappearing.  I don't know who might pick up the baton and run with it but I just don't see all these Trump supporters falling in line to support Romney (just watch that video of the lady at the airport).  The will go down with the ship so to speak.  I think the GOP is splintered at this point.  I find it more likely that the same will happen with the DNC than for the GOP to heal itself back to pre-2016.  Things are prime right now for a big shakeup if you could get moderates to align.

 
Sammy3469 said:
I'm still a little stunned that both Arizona and Georgia will have voted for a Democrat for President and have 2 Democratic Senators.  I don't know how reproducible those results are in the future, but it has to scare non-Trumpian Republicans.
Click to expand...
There's a theory that Georgia has been a blue state for some time now, but for a strong, successful voter suppression effort the past decade or so.

 
Sinn Fein said:
You did not ask me, but that has never stopped me from offering an opinion.

I think Trumpism is a "disease", and I think when Trump is rooted out, Trumpism will go with him.  He has a very magnetic personality - and I don't see anyone in his orbit that has that kind of appeal to be able to keep it up.  And, I think when he is out of power, he will lose most of the political fringe hanger-ons.

I think you will see the more establishment conservatives, like Liz Cheney, and Romney, step to the forefront and lead a revival of conservative priorities.  You will see some like Graham or McConnell who will go back to claiming they never supported Trump.  Eventually, the populism will die down - because, quite frankly, its not very popular amongst the country as a whole.

Now, whether the traditional conservative movement can win elections, might very well come down to whether the left-wing of the Democrats rises up (and thus creates opportunity for the right to oppose), or whether Biden can maintain control as a centrist.
Click to expand...
I don't think it matters what politicians do. It matters what GOP voters do. I expect most of the GOP establishment to be primaried.

 
AAABatteries said:
IK, as someone who identifies strongly as a Conservative, where do you see this going?  I think we are about the same age and somewhat similar politics (at least in the past) - I think my anger over what has happened has clouded my judgement on what will happen.  I think Trump will destroy the GOP and sometimes I wonder if it's just wishcasting on my part because I'm so disgusted.

ETA - and I know you are a Libertarian but lean Conservative in a lot of ways
Click to expand...
My personal guess is that the GOP is now the party of Trump.  I'm not happy about that and I wish it were otherwise, but I think the future of this party belongs to the Kristi Noems of the world, with folks like Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz falling in line because they know that's where their bread is buttered.  Folks like Mitt Romney are either just going to be along for the ride, or they'll be purged. 

Right-libertarians like me just aren't going to have a political home.  Not that I was ever totally comfortable with the Republican party anyway, but definitely not now.  

I'd love to be wrong, but I honestly don't see a lot of reason for optimism.  Republican voters seem all-in on QAnon, OAN, white identity politics, etc. and they'll pull their political leaders in that direction.

 
tri-man 47 said:
A Fidel story I like to share: On a trip to Cuba several years ago, I was able to have a conversation with the lead pastor of First Presbyterian Church in Havana.  He told me how Fidel had been generally open to a variety of religions and had written a book that addressed this.  Father Hector had been out of the country when the book came out, so he got the book and stayed up for a couple of nights reading it before returning home.  After returning to Cuba, he was at a meeting with Fidel and a number of Cuban church leaders.  In the meeting, Father Hector made comments about "commandant, in your book, you said this ..and you said that."  Fidel got a little pissed, since the book was not yet available in Cuba, and responded, "You Christians!  You are like ants!  You know everything and you see everything!"  
Click to expand...
Warnock's wife called him a great actor and a phony. That only means one thing.  Warnock will be a perfect fit for Senate. :)

 
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