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Healing And Moving Forward - Thoughts? (2 Viewers)

Ramblin Wreck said:
Got 'em.  They do want the government to stop innocent murder of babies.  
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Cool.  Then don't present it as though they are against government in our daily lives :shrug:  

Another prime example of why healing probably will be harder than it should be, so thanks for the post.  

 
The General said:
Thank you.

Do you feel that Donald repeating that this was rigged for months bares any responsibility for what happened on Wednesday?
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Repeating that doesn’t cause rational people to act like the idiots did Wednesday but I can see why you guys that have melted down over anything Trump are trying to cite that a fact. Same old same old. 

 
General Malaise said:
Sorry for my naivety but for these 50% who don't want government involved in their lives, what is their opinion on Medicare?  :confused:
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Dont like it.  People need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps.

Check out the book.  It is incredibly eye opening and quite compelling.

 
flat_earth said:
Here's my personal anecdote, for what it's worth.  I work for a local government in one of the battleground states, and part of my job is working very closely with local clerks who run our elections on the town/village/city/county level.  I know many of them personally, both conservatives and liberals.  I will say that these people, without exception, are all 100% focused on running honest elections, following the law, and making sure votes are counted quickly and accurately.  They are not political operatives, they are not doing the job for power or money or influence.  It's a crappy, thankless job and they are doing it out of a sense of civic duty and engagement.  These are my neighbors and fellow public servants who care about making their little local section of government operate effectively.  So when I hear these grand conspiracy theories about dead people voting, votes being counted twice, IDs and signatures not being required and all kinds of other stuff with no proof, it really bothers me.  I have never missed an election since I turned 18 decades ago.  I voted via absentee ballot this time because of Covid.  I had to upload a pic of my driver's license to the state website in order to get a ballot mailed to me by my local clerk.  I had to sign my envelope and have it signed by a witness.  Both signatures were checked against signature databases before the ballot was accepted.  The ballot can only be counted once electronically because it has a unique ID.  Trump ordered and received a recount here and the counts came out nearly identical.  Beyond that, Conservatives control all levels of state government here (including the supreme court) except the governorship. Yes, changes to election law were made quickly but it was due to Covid, not a Democratic plot to steal.  These changes were challenged by Trump in court and the conservative majority Supreme Court dismissed his case.  There simply was no widespread voter fraud, or even an attempt at it.  The system that is in place to run elections and count votes is sound and being run by real, competent, honest people...not by Trump's or Biden's operatives.  I never questioned the integrity of the election in 2016 when I was mad that Trump won, and I don't question it now in 2020 when I am happy that he lost.  I'm not sure any article or explanation is going to convince conservative skeptics that the number of votes for Biden was legit.  And that's fine...but I wish they could see what I see and have the confidence that I have in the system because it would help us all move forward.    
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Thank you for sharing

 
The General said:
Thank you.

Do you feel that Donald repeating that this was rigged for months bares any responsibility for what happened on Wednesday?
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no.  idiots being idiots.  just like the burning, looting, killing after the George Floyd killing.  most of those doing that could give a rats tail about Mr. Floyd.  it was an excuse to do what they wanted to do.

 
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JAA said:
:confused:
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If you have to ask then you can’t see the obvious.  There will be no healing or moving forward until the following:

1) politicians stop being only concerned with their political image and desire to just paint the other side as evil. 

2) the media stops promoting false stories and narratives that paint the other side as evil and stokes the fires of the fringe left and right. 

3) the voting public starts sees the above as the main problem with our political system and realizes the best and only solution is voting in more moderates on both sides because the fringe left and right can’t help themselves like a lot of posters here.  

 
GoBirds said:
Repeating that doesn’t cause rational people to act like the idiots did Wednesday but I can see why you guys that have melted down over anything Trump are trying to cite that a fact. Same old same old. 
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Is it fair to say you believe Trump has zero responsibility here? Some responsibility? Just gauging where you are coming from here.

 
stlrams said:
2) the media stops promoting false stories and narratives that paint the other side as evil and stokes the fires of the fringe left and right. 
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Thank you for the post.  For #2 above, which false stories are being promoted?

 
JAA said:
Thank you for the post.  For #2 above, which false stories are being promoted?
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Stories that have no merit mainly from anonymous sources that our media loves because of the shock value.  Both do it and it’s only getting worst imho. 

 
stlrams said:
JAA said:
Thank you for the post.  For #2 above, which false stories are being promoted?
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Stories that have no merit mainly from anonymous sources that our media loves because of the shock value.  Both do it and it’s only getting worst imho. 
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Thanks.  Do you have examples of those?  I haven't read any lately which have influenced me like they have you.  Im open to being wrong here.

 
There is illegal voting in every single election.  Probably one of the few "water is wet" kinds of comments that we can come up with on this subject.  Every single election 3-4% of the votes are rejected and some of those are because they are fraudulent.  It's NEVER been a reason to raid the capitol before or even give a ton of oxygen too, but now?  Well....here we are.

 
JAA said:
Thanks.  Do you have examples of those?  I haven't read any lately which have influenced me like they have you.  Im open to being wrong here.
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Last one that comes to mind is republicans coordinated, helped and provided reconnaissance to the protestors.  That joe Biden used his position to get hunter on several boards and lucrative consulting contracts.  There are literally hundreds.  Just watch Fox, CNBC or read ny times etc... the media just walks you down the rabbit hole with suspicious info without ever proving its accuracy.  

 
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stlrams said:
JAA said:
Thanks.  Do you have examples of those?  I haven't read any lately which have influenced me like they have you.  Im open to being wrong here.
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Last one that comes to mind is republicans coordinated, helped and provided reconnaissance to the protestors.  That joe Biden used his position to get hunter on several boards and lucrative consulting contracts.  There are literally hundreds.  Just watch Fox, CNBC or read ny times etc... the media just walks you down the rabbit hole with suspicious info without ever proving its accuracy.  
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Are you saying that all stories are inaccurate?  I read ABC, NYT, and WSJ.  I find the cross section of those sites pretty good.  I dont feel I have read and news specific stories (not op-ed) which are either inaccurate or narrative based.  How can you tell which ones are good vs bad?

 
JAA said:
Are you saying that all stories are inaccurate?  I read ABC, NYT, and WSJ.  I find the cross section of those sites pretty good.  I dont feel I have read and news specific stories (not op-ed) which are either inaccurate or narrative based.  How can you tell which ones are good vs bad?
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Is this your good cop bad cop game?  I’m not playing.  Have a good night sir.  

 
stlrams said:
JAA said:
Are you saying that all stories are inaccurate?  I read ABC, NYT, and WSJ.  I find the cross section of those sites pretty good.  I dont feel I have read and news specific stories (not op-ed) which are either inaccurate or narrative based.  How can you tell which ones are good vs bad?
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Is this your good cop bad cop game?  I’m not playing.  Have a good night sir.  
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I'm being as honest and sincere as I can  :shrug:

 
The Commish said:
There is illegal voting in every single election.  Probably one of the few "water is wet" kinds of comments that we can come up with on this subject.  Every single election 3-4% of the votes are rejected and some of those are because they are fraudulent.  It's NEVER been a reason to raid the capitol before or even give a ton of oxygen too, but now?  Well....here we are.
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Wait a minute.  Let's unpack your numbers, conservatively. If 155M votes were counted, and 3% of the total votes cast were rejected, that means 5M votes were disallowed, which seems both dubious and scandalous. Am I that out of touch with the way national elections shake out? Tossing 5M votes would open a lot of doors to shenanigans. And none of this touches on the subject if these tossed votes are fraudulent - which probably add up to dozens.

Or maybe I'm bad at arithmetic. Help my comprehension, por favor.

 
Mister CIA said:
And by "article" she probably means to say that she will be reposting an OAN column.
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I saw her for the first time today. She wore a mask that says “CENSURED” on it- though last week, in the hiding area, she refused to wear one even when others asked her to. 

 
Stealthycat said:
to believe Biden legitimately got that many more votes we'd have to believe Biden was that much more popular - during covid, with few rallies, few parades etc

can we agree that mail in ballots was the difference in the election ? 
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1. The election wasn't about Biden.  It was about Trump. Everyone knew it was coming down to Pro Trump v. Anti Trump.  Joe Biden could have been just about ANY Vanilla, Centrist Democrat with a D.C. resume politican and they would have won.  Trump and his supporters pushed the narrative that it was about Trump. The irony in the primaries is that Sanders would have been smoked in the General.  Vanilla won the day.  

2. The 3rd Party disappeared from 16 to 20. If you start looking at the county maps between the two elections...you see next to nothing in 2020 for the 3rd Party...where it some places in 16, it was running 5-7%.

3. Absolutely non fradulent mail in ballots made a difference.  That being said, it doesn't bode well for the Republican message is they're counting on Americans not turning out to vote.

4. % wise, Trump pretty much held ground between 16 and 20 in places that he had won.  He gained more votes in those counties....but Biden also gained more than Hillary.

5. It was like it was prophesized.....Donald Trump lost the election in the suburbs.  Those areas where Clinton won....Biden ran 5% better

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
@jackshafer

· 47m

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Georgia) just promised Newsmax to introduce articles of impeachment against Joe Biden on Jan. 21.
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Every president with an opposing congressional majority will be impeached from now on. So thanks for that Nancy. 

 
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GoBirds said:
Same as every other thread. 
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Lol the only thing that’s the same in every thread is you complaining about how all the conservatives get ganged up on in here. 
I like you @GoBirdsbut lately almost all of your posts are devoted to this complaint. It gets old. If you want to be here, why not engage in some real discussion and debate. As I recall you’re pretty good at it (been a while.) 

 
Insein said:
Every president with an opposing congressional majority will be impeached from now on. So thanks for that Nancy. 
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It’s a ludicrous argument, especially given the fact that Pelosi was asked by some her followers to impeach Bush, and during the first two years of Trump’s term to impeach Trump and she refused both times. She only very reluctantly agreed to impeachment when it was forced due to President Trump’s behavior, in the Ukraine phone call and now this. 

 
timschochet said:
It’s a ludicrous argument, especially given the fact that Pelosi was asked by some her followers to impeach Bush, and during the first two years of Trump’s term to impeach Trump and she refused both times. She only very reluctantly agreed to impeachment when it was forced due to President Trump’s behavior, in the Ukraine phone call and now this. 
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No. She made a calculated decision that impeachment without majority is a waste of time. She wait for that majority to come in 2019 and then she struck. It didn't matter how flimsy the charge was, they went with the first thing available. 

If Republicans win in 22, Bidens China connections will be impeachable and it will happen. Nothing will come of it, but it will be a rallying cry. And every president there after will face the same treatment. 

 
Insein said:
No. She made a calculated decision that impeachment without majority is a waste of time. She wait for that majority to come in 2019 and then she struck. It didn't matter how flimsy the charge was, they went with the first thing available. 

If Republicans win in 22, Bidens China connections will be impeachable and it will happen. Nothing will come of it, but it will be a rallying cry. And every president there after will face the same treatment. 
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It wasn't a flimsy charge. He deserved to be convicted the first time, too.

 
expo86 said:
It wasn't a flimsy charge. He deserved to be convicted the first time, too.
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No. He did not. That's the problem here. People have this filter on what they want to see and there's no changing it. To the point that Trump is leaving in less than 6 days and they want to impeach him again on evidence that no self respecting prosecutor would take. It's another show trial that will cost us about $30-50m and further enrage half the American people. Great way to heal and move forward.

It's not even about Trump at this point. It's about seizing on an opportunity to censor and discredit the opposition. That's all this is about. Some are easily sucked in because Orange Man Bad to the end. They can't have the last 4 years of not accepting the 2016 election mean nothing. 

 
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timschochet said:
Lol the only thing that’s the same in every thread is you complaining about how all the conservatives get ganged up on in here. 
I like you @GoBirdsbut lately almost all of your posts are devoted to this complaint. It gets old. If you want to be here, why not engage in some real discussion and debate. As I recall you’re pretty good at it (been a while.) 
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Lame insults don’t interest me, if you have a problem my posts and other non liberals in here make up a small percentage just skip over or put me on ignore. No need for more board policing. 

 
Insein said:
No. He did not. That's the problem here. People have this filter on what they want to see and there's no changing it. To the point that Trump is leaving in less than 6 days and they want to impeach him again on evidence that no self respecting prosecutor would take. It's another show trial that will cost us about $30-50m and further enrage half the American people. Great way to heal and move forward.

It's not even about Trump at this point. It's about seizing on an opportunity to censor and discredit the opposition. That's all this is about. Some are easily sucked in because Orange Man Bad to the end. They can't have the last 4 years of not accepting the 2016 election mean nothing. 
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:goodposting:

Great post, it’s more political theater that is way out of control but will be the new precedent as a floor. I’m scared to think how far things will continue to escalate after the last 4 years. 

 
stlrams said:
If you have to ask then you can’t see the obvious.  There will be no healing or moving forward until the following:

1) politicians stop being only concerned with their political image and desire to just paint the other side as evil. 

2) the media stops promoting false stories and narratives that paint the other side as evil and stokes the fires of the fringe left and right. 

3) the voting public starts sees the above as the main problem with our political system and realizes the best and only solution is voting in more moderates on both sides because the fringe left and right can’t help themselves like a lot of posters here.  
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4.  The president of the United States doesn’t lie every time he opens his mouth. 

I’d start there.

 
GoBirds said:
Where are these politicians that don’t lie? Is that a new thing?
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Trump doesn’t even know what the truth is.  Politicians lie. Yes. Trump never tells the truth.  The truth to Donald is whatever he thinks is in his interest.  Had no normative meaning.  

 
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