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2021 Las Vegas Raiders - PLAYOFFS!!!! (5 Viewers)

Chadstroma said:
Isn't Trent like 50 years old now?
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32. OL can play well into their 30s, so not concerned about his age. Give him a deal that locks his cap hit for 2 yrs and then provides flexibility in yrs 3-4, same as they did for Brown.

Save for the one year he sat out, Williams has been an elite OT for like the last 6-7 yrs in a row, across two teams, and despite taking an entire year off due to his dispute with the Deadskins.

 
I recognize we are in the desperate world. 
 

I don’t want any suspended, injured, reclamation projects.  For once, I’d  like to see them. Make the common sense choice. 

 
DA RAIDERS said:
I recognize we are in the desperate world. 
 

I don’t want any suspended, injured, reclamation projects.  For once, I’d  like to see them. Make the common sense choice. 
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Joyner and Littleton were common sense and costly. And not what we hoped (I am hoping Littleton bounces back).

Free Agency is about as much of an art as drafting is but perhaps even more full of fools gold. 

 
Chadstroma said:
Joyner and Littleton were common sense and costly. And not what we hoped (I am hoping Littleton bounces back).

Free Agency is about as much of an art as drafting is but perhaps even more full of fools gold. 
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I didn’t mention either of them. What’s done is done. 

Im looking forward.  I know FA is a crap shoot. But do you bet on the stud horse, that’s never missed a race, or the broke down one?  That’s on 6 different drugs, just to get to the gate.  

The raiders have a history of taking chances. Sometimes, to great results. Recently, not so much.  I’m soooooo tired of the heart issues, etc  

My ask is pretty simple.  Don’t #### up the  good offense. Make the defense top 15ish.  

But that’s not gruden’s style.  Gotta swing for the fences and take chances and make sure we have a full back, so we can run the fake jet sweep, full back blast 🙄

 
DA RAIDERS said:
I didn’t mention either of them. What’s done is done. 

Im looking forward.  I know FA is a crap shoot. But do you bet on the stud horse, that’s never missed a race, or the broke down one?  That’s on 6 different drugs, just to get to the gate.  

The raiders have a history of taking chances. Sometimes, to great results. Recently, not so much.  I’m soooooo tired of the heart issues, etc  

My ask is pretty simple.  Don’t #### up the  good offense. Make the defense top 15ish.  

But that’s not gruden’s style.  Gotta swing for the fences and take chances and make sure we have a full back, so we can run the fake jet sweep, full back blast 🙄
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I mentioned them because they were EXACTLY what you are asking for. Those players may be cheaper this year than others but they aren't cheap. 

Some players are cheaper because there is a reason.... a down year, an injury, suspension... whatever. Money is not infinite. If there is am opportunity, I don't want to ignore it in chasing top dollar FA's.

Kick all the tires and see what tread and air is in them.

 
LawFitz said:
I dunno. Back problems have destroyed OL careers for as long as this game has been played. It'd be a high risk/reward proposition IMO. Rather stick with dependable names, if there are alternatives. Would love to see Trent Williams signed for the money Trent Brown was set to receive.
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I'd think Trent Williams is looking for more than Brown was set to receive.  He might not get it, but his initial ask is going to be very high. 

Going to be interesting to see how free agency shakes out this year with the lower cap.  I could see a lot guys settling for 1-2 year deals and then trying to get paid when the cap increases again.  

 
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Chadstroma said:
Joyner and Littleton were common sense and costly. And not what we hoped (I am hoping Littleton bounces back).

Free Agency is about as much of an art as drafting is but perhaps even more full of fools gold. 
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Wasn’t part of the problem with Joyner was that he was playing out of position?   

Gruden has done a terrible job in the draft and FA.   His coaching has been OK for O but the lack of talent on D is a huge liability.   Comparing the Raider roster to the rosters of the playoff teams is enlightening.   It tells all the story that you need   

 
LIttleton and Nick K both reworked their deals freeing up some more cap room for the Raiders.  Don't have the specific on the contracts, but $2.7M from Nick K and $4.4M from Littleton.  Another $7.1 to work with. 

 
DocHolliday said:
Wasn’t part of the problem with Joyner was that he was playing out of position?   

Gruden has done a terrible job in the draft and FA.   His coaching has been OK for O but the lack of talent on D is a huge liability.   Comparing the Raider roster to the rosters of the playoff teams is enlightening.   It tells all the story that you need   
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I believe a big problem with Joyner was playing out of position and possibly like the rest of the defense being confused on exactly what they doing in the D. 

 
What's the consensus here on Matt Judon? Whenever I watched the Ravens the past few years, seems like the guy was a major headache for QBs. And I specifically remember him just destroying Kolton Miller during his rookie season. 

I don't know how much he'll cost, but an experienced pass rusher in his prime is an obvious need for the defense. I gotta believe they need to make at least one big name acquisition on D.

 
Bruno2 said:
What's the consensus here on Matt Judon? Whenever I watched the Ravens the past few years, seems like the guy was a major headache for QBs. And I specifically remember him just destroying Kolton Miller during his rookie season. 

I don't know how much he'll cost, but an experienced pass rusher in his prime is an obvious need for the defense. I gotta believe they need to make at least one big name acquisition on D.
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I like him, but how much of his production was based on playing for a sound and deep defensive team his entire career? That's the challenge with so many FAs... Differentiating between player and situation with regards to past success. The edge rusher on the Stillers, e.g., is a prime example. Want nothing to do with that guy, even if he weren't coming off an ACL tear. 

I am more open to paying big for OTs from FA - mainly b/c of their critical nature positionally speaking, but also b/c that may be the easiest position of all to translate from one system to another. But even then, the character better be spotless - and ideally it would be a guy who has already seen big money, and won't suddenly turn into a new-money turd.

Otherwise, save the big $$$ deals for home-grown studs. Compile draft resources. Trade down and take lots of swings every year. Extend rookie contracts for hits like Carr, Jacobs, Mack, etc. a year or two early - but only if the guys display the character and team commitment, and not just the talent.

Fine details aside, it's really not a complicated blueprint. And the best teams in the league have been operating (mostly) in this way for at least the last couple decades.

 
I like Gruden, but much moreso as a coach, than as defacto team president. Based on the last four years, he operates in stark contrast with what I just wrote and even if Mayock sees it my way, he doesn't have the authority to override Gruden's man crushes, which seem to come about regularly, and to the detriment of executing a proper team-build. Al had the same disease, albeit with more musk cologne.

 
LawFitz said:
I like him, but how much of his production was based on playing for a sound and deep defensive team his entire career? That's the challenge with so many FAs... Differentiating between player and situation with regards to past success. The edge rusher on the Stillers, e.g., is a prime example. Want nothing to do with that guy, even if he weren't coming off an ACL tear. 

I am more open to paying big for OTs from FA - mainly b/c of their critical nature positionally speaking, but also b/c that may be the easiest position of all to translate from one system to another. But even then, the character better be spotless - and ideally it would be a guy who has already seen big money, and won't suddenly turn into a new-money turd.

Otherwise, save the big $$$ deals for home-grown studs. Compile draft resources. Trade down and take lots of swings every year. Extend rookie contracts for hits like Carr, Jacobs, Mack, etc. a year or two early - but only if the guys display the character and team commitment, and not just the talent.

Fine details aside, it's really not a complicated blueprint. And the best teams in the league have been operating (mostly) in this way for at least the last couple decades.
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Great post.  Hitting on FA players is tough when the FA is leaving a good team and coming to a team that is struggling.    It’s also why many stud players from elite college programs flop.  

The sting from the Mack trade was starting to fade until you look back and see how little we got in return.   There is a lesson there.   Don’t give up an elite player to try to find another elite player in the draft or FA.  

 
kaso said:
LIttleton and Nick K both reworked their deals freeing up some more cap room for the Raiders.  Don't have the specific on the contracts, but $2.7M from Nick K and $4.4M from Littleton.  Another $7.1 to work with. 
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This is great news.  This will allow Gruden to sign some free agents.  Honestly, I like how gruden has handled the off season so far.  Maybe the moves are obvious but they don’t happen on their own. 

 
Carl Nassib could be cut this year to free up another $3.75 MM in cap. His $5.75 MM roster bonus is fully guaranteed, but the remainder of his total $9.5 MM this year is not; and none of 2022 compensation is guaranteed. So by cutting him they'd free up the $3.75 MM and eat the $5.75 MM as dead cap.

The way this dude played last year, I wouldn't mind seeing them eat the dead cap as a sunk cost and deploy that $3.75 MM elsewhere. He was the epitome of get paid a fat contract, then start making 'business decisions' on the field.

:PUNT:

 
DocHolliday said:
This is great news.  This will allow Gruden to sign some free agents.  Honestly, I like how gruden has handled the off season so far.  Maybe the moves are obvious but they don’t happen on their own. 
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I'm not as sure about Littleton being good news. This restructure may have pot-committed the Raiders to him for a longer tenure. He is another guy on my radar for getting paid, finally, then looking like ish.

 
LawFitz said:
Carl Nassib could be cut this year to free up another $3.75 MM in cap. His $5.75 MM roster bonus is fully guaranteed, but the remainder of his total $9.5 MM this year is not; and none of 2022 compensation is guaranteed. So by cutting him they'd free up the $3.75 MM and eat the $5.75 MM as dead cap.

The way this dude played last year, I wouldn't mind seeing them eat the dead cap as a sunk cost and deploy that $3.75 MM elsewhere. He was the epitome of get paid a fat contract, then start making 'business decisions' on the field.

:PUNT:
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I could go either way. Not huge savings and a new system/coach may be beneficial. But on the other end, he brought nothing to the team. If he stays, he will not be around after next year without a huge increase in productivity for sure. 

 
LawFitz said:
I like him, but how much of his production was based on playing for a sound and deep defensive team his entire career? That's the challenge with so many FAs... Differentiating between player and situation with regards to past success. The edge rusher on the Stillers, e.g., is a prime example. Want nothing to do with that guy, even if he weren't coming off an ACL tear. 

I am more open to paying big for OTs from FA - mainly b/c of their critical nature positionally speaking, but also b/c that may be the easiest position of all to translate from one system to another. But even then, the character better be spotless - and ideally it would be a guy who has already seen big money, and won't suddenly turn into a new-money turd.

Otherwise, save the big $$$ deals for home-grown studs. Compile draft resources. Trade down and take lots of swings every year. Extend rookie contracts for hits like Carr, Jacobs, Mack, etc. a year or two early - but only if the guys display the character and team commitment, and not just the talent.

Fine details aside, it's really not a complicated blueprint. And the best teams in the league have been operating (mostly) in this way for at least the last couple decades.
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One problem. Gruden

 
@LawFitz bringing the common sense. 

I wish there was some way to remove Gruden from complete and total control. I feel bad for mayock. Sadly, dumb and dumber gave him carte Blanche. 

 
Bruno2 said:
What's the consensus here on Matt Judon? Whenever I watched the Ravens the past few years, seems like the guy was a major headache for QBs. And I specifically remember him just destroying Kolton Miller during his rookie season. 

I don't know how much he'll cost, but an experienced pass rusher in his prime is an obvious need for the defense. I gotta believe they need to make at least one big name acquisition on D.
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Ravens follower here.

In a normal cap year, someone would give him elite Edge money ($20mm or so the going rate?). They still might.

But he's not an elite pass rusher. He's really good, but not top-of-the-market good. Judon will get you 6-9 sacks, and a bunch of pressures. He also has worked really hard to make himself into a complete player. He has gotten much better as a run defender and he sets a great edge. He can drop into coverage and is fast enough to run down ball carriers from behind.

He's also - from all accounts I've read - a really good dude and teammate, He could have #####ed and sulked when the Ravens tagged him last year. He didn't. He had what I think may have been his best year.

I wish Baltimore could keep him but, unless the market completely dries up, I can't see how they can afford to.

The team getting him just has to know how to use him. And the fans have to understand what they're getting, not what the front office paid him as.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
Ravens follower here.

In a normal cap year, someone would give him elite Edge money ($20mm or so the going rate?). They still might.

But he's not an elite pass rusher. He's really good, but not top-of-the-market good. Judon will get you 6-9 sacks, and a bunch of pressures. He also has worked really hard to make himself into a complete player. He has gotten much better as a run defender and he sets a great edge. He can drop into coverage and is fast enough to run down ball carriers from behind.

He's also - from all accounts I've read - a really good dude and teammate, He could have #####ed and sulked when the Ravens tagged him last year. He didn't. He had what I think may have been his best year.

I wish Baltimore could keep him but, unless the market completely dries up, I can't see how they can afford to.

The team getting him just has to know how to use him. And the fans have to understand what they're getting, not what the front office paid him as.
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Thanks for the info. Sounds like the kind of player and team mate the Raiders D needs.

 
DA RAIDERS said:
We’ll have agree to disagree then.

Everything this team does, is controlled by the 100 million dollar man. 
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He has final say, no doubt. The buck stops there.

That's a long way from feeling bad for Mayock, who has, by the way, NO track record for drafting. 

So why does he get sympathy, likes he's a prisoner of an ego run amok?

Every vibe out of this team is that these two are seeing eye to eye on these picks. 

 
massraider said:
He has final say, no doubt. The buck stops there.

That's a long way from feeling bad for Mayock, who has, by the way, NO track record for drafting. 

So why does he get sympathy, likes he's a prisoner of an ego run amok?

Every vibe out of this team is that these two are seeing eye to eye on these picks. 
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I feel bad for any yes man, who on his own, might be able to shine. I like mayock. I don’t like Gruden. 

Mayock is smart. We will never hear him say a contrarian word about Gruden, his picks, his offense, etc.  which is true of any employee, that is employed at the whim of his boss. And make no mistake, Gruden is the boss. 

 
DA RAIDERS said:
I feel bad for any yes man, who on his own, might be able to shine. I like mayock. I don’t like Gruden. 

Mayock is smart. We will never hear him say a contrarian word about Gruden, his picks, his offense, etc.  which is true of any employee, that is employed at the whim of his boss. And make no mistake, Gruden is the boss. 
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Everything I have ever seen or heard from Mayock makes me believe one of the last things he is is a yes man. He has always shown he doesn't care what others think. I don't see him cowering from a position.

I think there is a mutual respect and they like each other and work together. 

 
I like Mayock too. He's likable. 

However, of the two of them, only one has any history of success. 

I don't see any reason to separate the two of them. Whatever moves you want to judge Mayock on, it's a failing grade, same as Gruden.

What's really frustrating is they had a LOT of cap room and draft picks, and came out of the store with a bunch of scratch tickets. 

 
Chadstroma said:
You guys kill me sometimes. 

2 drafts and now we have a final grade on Mayock. 

🤣
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How many drafts does he get?   Do not forget that he had extra swings these last two drafts. I’m concerned for the upcoming draft since there have been so many poor decisions in those first two drafts.  What else do we have to base our thoughts on Grudens drafting?  

 
On 3/12/2021 at 5:58 PM, Chadstroma said:Are you feeling ok?
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I call them like I see them and I like the offseason moves so far.   Gruden can get the train back on track by using common sense this off season.   Pass on the old vets that are only looking to get paid.  Don’t reach for players this draft and don’t go for projects like Ruggs or Bowden. 

 
massraider said:
I like Mayock too. He's likable. 

However, of the two of them, only one has any history of success. 

I don't see any reason to separate the two of them. Whatever moves you want to judge Mayock on, it's a failing grade, same as Gruden.

What's really frustrating is they had a LOT of cap room and draft picks, and came out of the store with a bunch of scratch tickets. 
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Agreed 100%
 

i like mayock, and have no clue if he’s good or not. Because in my mind, gruden is making all of the choices. 
 

nayock the draftnick, would never have suggested to draft 3 wrs in a row. And would have criticized the crap out of gruden, for doing so. 

 
DA RAIDERS said:
Agreed 100%
 

i like mayock, and have no clue if he’s good or not. Because in my mind, gruden is making all of the choices. 
 

nayock the draftnick, would never have suggested to draft 3 wrs in a row. And would have criticized the crap out of gruden, for doing so. 
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I have always assumed Gruden is making all the choices as well.   It won’t matter in a couple of years.   I expect Gruden to use Mayock as the fall guy after the next season.   Gruden will be gone a year or two after that depending on how his mysterious contract is written. 

 
DocHolliday said:
How many drafts does he get?   Do not forget that he had extra swings these last two drafts. I’m concerned for the upcoming draft since there have been so many poor decisions in those first two drafts.  What else do we have to base our thoughts on Grudens drafting?  
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2 drafts... when it is well accepted you need 4-5 years to really judge a draft. 

 
Chadstroma said:
2 drafts... when it is well accepted you need 4-5 years to really judge a draft. 
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What if they are replacing people from 2 years ago already? This team has been churning it's roster for I don't know how long. Watching players like Shelby Harris, Denico Autry, and Jon Feliciano starting for other teams after being dumped by the Raiders is crazy annoying. 

I'm willing to give everyone time, I was more patient than anyone with Reggie. 

But they didn't have the hole he was in to start, and he left them with an affordable starting QB, and Khalil Mack. 

Anyone is well within their rights to have expectations this year. Dismantling the strength of the team, the OL, makes me pessimistic. 

 
Chadstroma said:
2 drafts... when it is well accepted you need 4-5 years to really judge a draft. 
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I agree it's too early to kill Mayock, but I think you can judge an NFL draft after 2-3 years.  I think you usually know if a guy is good after two years.  The average career length is only probably four years.

 
Bottom line, they've been reaching, Ferrell at #4, Abram and Arnett in the 1st round just proves huge egos are running the show. This "we have our own draft board" attitude might bite them in the a##. Just like it did to Al in his later years. I'm not throwing them under the bus just yet, but if theres another mid season collapse for the 3rd year in a row, something will need to change.

 
massraider said:
What if they are replacing people from 2 years ago already? This team has been churning it's roster for I don't know how long. Watching players like Shelby Harris, Denico Autry, and Jon Feliciano starting for other teams after being dumped by the Raiders is crazy annoying. 

I'm willing to give everyone time, I was more patient than anyone with Reggie. 

But they didn't have the hole he was in to start, and he left them with an affordable starting QB, and Khalil Mack. 

Anyone is well within their rights to have expectations this year. Dismantling the strength of the team, the OL, makes me pessimistic. 
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I am not too worried about Oline. We has a ton of injuries and still played well. At one point our backup G was our RT. 

We have Milller and Hudson. 

Simpson showed a ton of promise. 

We could still bring back Incognito and/or Good and/or a ton of other talent available including the newly unretired Long, of which who knows could give us a discount to play for Daddy's team. I am not worried about the G spots.

Trading Brown away is lost promise and not actual production as he was MIA. We need to bring in RT. Again, there is talent available. 

And let's be honest... a slight breeze from any direction would make you pessimistic.

 
Chadstroma said:
2 drafts... when it is well accepted you need 4-5 years to really judge a draft. 
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Four or five years?!   That’s funny.  Seems like two or three years is plenty of time to judge a draft.   How many players last on the Raiders for five years?  

My question was how many drafts does Gruden fail before he should be gone?   The drafts seem to be getting worse instead of better each year.  The last draft was enough for me.  Will this draft be the final straw?   Does he get a full ten years of wasting draft picks?   He has his ring from TB.   Now he is just setting up his grandkids and great grandchildren financially.

 
Chadstroma said:
I am not too worried about Oline. We has a ton of injuries and still played well. At one point our backup G was our RT. 

We have Milller and Hudson. 

Simpson showed a ton of promise. 

We could still bring back Incognito and/or Good and/or a ton of other talent available including the newly unretired Long, of which who knows could give us a discount to play for Daddy's team. I am not worried about the G spots.

Trading Brown away is lost promise and not actual production as he was MIA. We need to bring in RT. Again, there is talent available. 
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Going to agree with Chad.  Shocking, I know!   The OL pieces lost didn’t contribute that much. They either didn’t play much or their play can be matched by another player for less money.  OL is extremely important but more money needs to go towards the D.  

 
Funny that their best pick was the one most criticized when it first happened. 

People were DUNKING on the Raiders after Kolton was taken. 

I will always believe part of it was the fact that his first name was Kolton. 

 
massraider said:
Funny that their best pick was the one most criticized when it first happened. 

People were DUNKING on the Raiders after Kolton was taken. 

I will always believe part of it was the fact that his first name was Kolton. 
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Once the dust settles, if they end up with unused cap for this year, they should extend Miller now. Spread out his looming monster cap hit into this year and next, rather than having it become something absurd in 2023. That's if they end up with excess cap (e.g. pre- or early-season Mariota trade after a starter goes down somewhere).

 
LawFitz said:
Once the dust settles, if they end up with unused cap for this year, they should extend Miller now. Spread out his looming monster cap hit into this year and next, rather than having it become something absurd in 2023. That's if they end up with excess cap (e.g. pre- or early-season Mariota trade after a starter goes down somewhere).
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They will trade him rather than pay him.  

 
Sitting out free agency money round, how much you wanna bet we do better with TJ Maxx free agents than with the guys we spent our Khalil Mack $$ on?

It's always true, big FA looks bad one year later, and worse two years later. 

But we still want them.

Is this what it's like for women attracted to bad boys? 😯

 
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