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2021 Las Vegas Raiders - PLAYOFFS!!!! (8 Viewers)

Chaka said:
Wow. Good article and quite scathing.

I think he underestimates the draw the Raiders will be for head coaches but overall a really interesting read.

Totally forgot Jordy Nelson was a Raider for a half minute.
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That article nails the reasons why I could not wait for Gruden to be gone from the Raiders.  Gruden sucked at handling personnel, including the draft, trades, and free agency.  He had so many misses that his lucky hits like Crosby do not matter.  It is a shame that so many Raider fans fell for the Gruden personality and overlooked his horrible decisions and win-loss record.  Those Gruden fans need to be excited that the team could start winning in a 2-3 years.  I did write "could" since Davis could fall for another name or personality instead of hiring a young coach with potential.  

Raider fans need to be honest with where this team is at talent-wise as well.  It isnt good.  Gruden wasted the last 3 drafts and shipped out too many good players to obtain early draft picks that were wasted.  It is going to take years to rebuild.  Acknowledge that the Chargers and Chiefs will be fighting for the top spot in the AFC W and will likely be going to Super Bowls for years.  The Raiders will be battling Denver for the third spot in the AFC W.   Sometimes, reality is a bummer.  

 
DA RAIDERS said:
where am i disputing that?  and what's your point?  that i'm racist?  ok. :shrug:   this discussion started because i agreed with wilbon, when he said that every one has some racism in them.  so again, what's your point?
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Yes, you are racist so you must be canceled. Your must be fired from your job or resign or if you are a business owner, anyone doing business with you must stop now. You must be ostracized and hated as a vile person because you are a racist. You must be condemned and damned. Any mention of you in a positive way must cease and if you have had some honor in the past, that must be rescinded. Right? That is what we do now, isn't it? Or is that silly? 

The problem I have with conflating prejudice or even bad judgement, bad humor, bad moment etc with racism is that is cheapens actual racism which is horrific and evil. When everyone and everything is racist then you lose what is means for when someone really is racist. I do believe that most of the cancel culture mob believe they are marching towards the good fight but it is a rudderless, mindless mob that has no thought our reasoning to address in many ways what is often subjective. They become a Walking Dead horde of "I don't like" and go eat the brains and will turn on anyone alive at a moments notice. 

So, yes, that is my point. 

 
Chaka said:
Wow. Good article and quite scathing.

I think he underestimates the draw the Raiders will be for head coaches but overall a really interesting read.

Totally forgot Jordy Nelson was a Raider for a half minute.
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That is the thing I found funny reading this... he did a horrible job yet everyone is saying how this will be the premier HC job everyone wants because of the young talent and other things like the new stadium, no income tax, etc. 

I mean, if you only focused on the negative, you can make any coach look foolish in the NFL. You can play that game with Belicheat easily and many say he is the GOAT of coaching (I disagree but whatever). 

Yes, there were missteps absolutely but this writer takes a negative spin on everything and consistently lacking context in all those swipes. Some of the moves, I didn't like (Jordy Nelson for example) but many were not exactly wrong moves.... signing Tyrell Williams.... was there any reason to suspect him being hurt and then not playing? How would you know Abram would be out his rookie year (though being miscast in a bad scheme with Guenther does fall on Gruden ultimately)? Jacobs dealing with some injuries? Those type of things are just adding to his subtraction but maybe not 'fair'. The one thing he gives some cover on was one item that I think you could see coming to an extent (but not to the extent it happened....) with Antonio Brown. You knew he was a bit of a head case so there was risk in bringing him over but the risk vs reward of that seemed to be the right decision. Now, he was insane head case and it blew up but I given what we knew at that time, I would still have taken that risk. 

 
DocHolliday said:
That article nails the reasons why I could not wait for Gruden to be gone from the Raiders.  Gruden sucked at handling personnel, including the draft, trades, and free agency.  He had so many misses that his lucky hits like Crosby do not matter.  It is a shame that so many Raider fans fell for the Gruden personality and overlooked his horrible decisions and win-loss record.  Those Gruden fans need to be excited that the team could start winning in a 2-3 years.  I did write "could" since Davis could fall for another name or personality instead of hiring a young coach with potential.  

Raider fans need to be honest with where this team is at talent-wise as well.  It isnt good.  Gruden wasted the last 3 drafts and shipped out too many good players to obtain early draft picks that were wasted.  It is going to take years to rebuild.  Acknowledge that the Chargers and Chiefs will be fighting for the top spot in the AFC W and will likely be going to Super Bowls for years.  The Raiders will be battling Denver for the third spot in the AFC W.   Sometimes, reality is a bummer.  
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Is your real name Bill Barnwell?

 
I agree with Chad. That article made some damn good points, but overall it was completely one-sided, and I don't think indicative of a truth that lies somewhere in between Gruden being a sly genius or a completely ineffective moron.

I will always be a Chucky apologist b/c of the fondness I have for his first tenure in Oakland, but even I can admit that he's proven not the best player personnel guy. And I don't care for what Chris Simms said about him this week - that players in Tampa did not trust him b/c supposedly he would often talk #### behind players' backs (to and/or in front of other players) and then would act like said players' best friend in front of them. Everything else is damning enough, but that tidbit if true, would have been poisonous for this team in the long run.

Oh well, I still hope the best for Gruden in his personal and professional life going forward. I do believe he loves the Raiders and like Carr eloquently stated, hate the act, love the man. Time to move on to Denver and perhaps some better player and coaching hires with Mayock now captaining that part of the ship.

 
Moving on... to Denver...

I am hearing nothing but praise of Bisaccia. Even Keyshawn Johnson who blasted Gruden was signing his praises. It seems anyone who has worked with him says the following consistently: "Well liked, a leader and respected". This may be exactly what the team needs to rally behind. Then again, this will be a tough week to focus on football through. 

Olsen last called plays for the Raiders during Carr's rookie season which saw Dennis Allen fired 4 games in and Sparano taking over as HC. Olsen has been through this so maybe this helps? He is basically going to run Gruden's offense as it would be insane to make any major changes right off the back but the play calling will be different. I wonder how committed Olsen will be to establishing the run game which has been difficult this season over what Gruden has. Perhaps this change gets the team going early and we can score quickly. 

The Donkeys are not as good as their record. They have a good defense but the offense can be slowed. Bridgewater comes back which is an upgrade over Lock. They have some talent with Sutton and Fant as well as Williams at RB as it looks like Gordon is out. Jeudy is out so that is helpful to our depleted secondary. Their notable injury report is showing Gordon DNP hip and Kareem Jackson DNP back. 

This game will tell us a lot about where the heads of the players are. Are they rallying around Bisaccia and themselves or are they following apart. I do think that the players are close and that leads me to think that they will circle wagons and want to come out fighting for the guy next to them but this is such a hard situation to judge. I mean, Nassib taking a day (understandable in his situation) kind of speaks to how some of the guys are struggling. Hopefully he comes back and feels the love of the team and doesn't let it get into his head. 

 
For Mayock, reading between the lines on what has been said and not said, I think the early round picks (good or bad) were Gruden with input from Mayock. I think the later rounds Gruden would defer to Mayock. My feel is that round 1 and 2 were largely Gruden calls. So, good or bad, Cle, Jacobs, Abram, Mullen, Ruggs, Arnette, Leatherwood and Moehrig were that 51% with Gruden having final say. I think as you get into the 3rd it probably was more mixed collaboration between them, so Bowden, Edwards, Muse, Koonce and Deablo. From the 4th on, I think that was pretty much Mayock making the call. Crosby, Johnson, Moreau, Renfrow, Bell, Simpson, Robertson, Gillespie, Hobbs and Morrissey. Focusing on the later rounds, Mayock has done a job getting Crosby, Moreau, Renfrow, and Hobbs for sure in those late rounds..... jury is out on Simpson, Robertson and Gillespie. 

Of course, I have no real proof of my view of how the draft room worked but again but it is what I think. 

 
I`m so curious to see what the next Draft looks like ,i sure hope we grab the BEST available and stop reaching for ''football players'' as they called them,2 or 3 rds too soon .

 
Chadstroma said:
Yes, you are racist so you must be canceled. Your must be fired from your job or resign or if you are a business owner, anyone doing business with you must stop now. You must be ostracized and hated as a vile person because you are a racist. You must be condemned and damned. Any mention of you in a positive way must cease and if you have had some honor in the past, that must be rescinded. Right? That is what we do now, isn't it? Or is that silly? 

The problem I have with conflating prejudice or even bad judgement, bad humor, bad moment etc with racism is that is cheapens actual racism which is horrific and evil. When everyone and everything is racist then you lose what is means for when someone really is racist. I do believe that most of the cancel culture mob believe they are marching towards the good fight but it is a rudderless, mindless mob that has no thought our reasoning to address in many ways what is often subjective. They become a Walking Dead horde of "I don't like" and go eat the brains and will turn on anyone alive at a moments notice. 

So, yes, that is my point. 
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gruden's resignation is not a result of cancel culture.  he was an idiot.  he's a vulgar, crude, mysoginistic, homophobic, most likely racist dinosaur from another era.  he got caught, plain and simple.  as you and i pointed out, the moron was sending nudes of employees, via email, to the GM of the WFT.  the very employer of those employees.  how stupid can you get?  anyone would lose there job for that.  add in that it's a high profile, giant corporation, that preaches* tolerance and has PR for their PR.  there was no way he survives this.  and the everybody else does it too, doesn't cut it for my 15 year old, and it doesn't cut it here.

i agree with you 100% on the basic cancel culture movement.  it's ridiculous.

*the NFL doesn't necessarily practice what it preaches

 
Cancel Culture disappears tomorrow. Gone forever.

Let's just say.

It's cool for Gruden to keep his job? Coaching black guys, and gay guys, and calling the commish a f**?

That's cool?

 
Chaka said:
Wow. Good article and quite scathing.

I think he underestimates the draw the Raiders will be for head coaches but overall a really interesting read.

Totally forgot Jordy Nelson was a Raider for a half minute.
Click to expand...
cherry picking a lot of negatives.  i could have written most of it.   :D   

i agree that it's a more desirable location than he makes it out to be.  any NFL coaching spot is an unreal position.  the raiders has got to be top 10-15.

 
DA RAIDERS said:
too many people may have found out the emails, so they had to get out in front of it as much as possible. :shrug:  
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I don't know the reasoning for the timing being now, but if they wanted to get in front of it July would have been the time.  And it seems like they leaked the Demaurice Smith email by itself then the rest on Monday.

 
DA RAIDERS said:
gruden's resignation is not a result of cancel culture.  he was an idiot.  he's a vulgar, crude, mysoginistic, homophobic, most likely racist dinosaur from another era.  he got caught, plain and simple.  as you and i pointed out, the moron was sending nudes of employees, via email, to the GM of the WFT.  the very employer of those employees.  how stupid can you get?  anyone would lose there job for that.  add in that it's a high profile, giant corporation, that preaches* tolerance and has PR for their PR.  there was no way he survives this.  and the everybody else does it too, doesn't cut it for my 15 year old, and it doesn't cut it here.

i agree with you 100% on the basic cancel culture movement.  it's ridiculous.

*the NFL doesn't necessarily practice what it preaches
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My comments about cancel culture, racism etc are not connected to Gruden or should be construed as a defense of him. 

 
DA RAIDERS said:
cherry picking a lot of negatives.  i could have written most of it.   :D   

i agree that it's a more desirable location than he makes it out to be.  any NFL coaching spot is an unreal position.  the raiders has got to be top 10-15.
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This may be the most positive thing you have ever said about the Gruden era.

 
ICON211 said:
I don't know the reasoning for the timing being now, but if they wanted to get in front of it July would have been the time.  And it seems like they leaked the Demaurice Smith email by itself then the rest on Monday.
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i think they were probably trying to keep it under wraps.  but then too many people saw the emails and it was leaked.

 
Chadstroma said:
Yes, you are racist so you must be canceled. Your must be fired from your job or resign or if you are a business owner, anyone doing business with you must stop now. You must be ostracized and hated as a vile person because you are a racist. You must be condemned and damned. Any mention of you in a positive way must cease and if you have had some honor in the past, that must be rescinded. Right? That is what we do now, isn't it? Or is that silly? 

 
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this has nothing to do with gruden, or what has happened to him?  this is directed only at me, for agreeing with wilbon about everyone having some degree of racism in them?  seems a bit of a stretch if you're truly saying this about me.

 
DA RAIDERS said:
carr, jacobs, miller, renfrow, waller, maxx, mullen, hobbs.  offense has been dynamic at times.  
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All mentioned in the article. Agree he undersold some of them, particularly Renfrow.

Any notable free agents we should be loving? I think Perryman looks like a very solid acquisition.

 
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Chadstroma said:
This may be the most positive thing you have ever said about the Gruden era.
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Chadstroma said:
Woa... no, THIS is the most positive thing you have said fo sho
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bro, i ####### bleed silver and black.  the gruden era was a bunch of garbage. just because i'm not washing gruden's balls on the regular, does not make me less of a fan.  i thought the hire was a travesty.  his contract was one of the dumbest things i've ever seen in sports.  turns out i was right.  but i WANTED to be wrong.

and this new info on gruden, doesn't change my opinion of him at all.  he is, who i thought he was.  

 
DA RAIDERS said:
this has nothing to do with gruden, or what has happened to him?  this is directed only at me, for agreeing with wilbon about everyone having some degree of racism in them?  seems a bit of a stretch if you're truly saying this about me.
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Yes, my comment was directly about Wilbon and what I disagree with that you said you agreed with. 

I later pointed out that what you said is racist. You think that proved your point but you missed mine. 

This everyone is racist thinking cheapens actual racism. The language of today seems to increasingly use the extreme to label people. There is no thought as to the actual meaning of the language. Racist, Nazi, Fascist, etc are thrown out at the drop of the hat and with little or no support for it. The over use of these labels cheapens that actual ugliness and disgusting reality of actual racist, Nazi's, Fascist etc. My point is that we are doing society harm with this position that everything is racist. 

 
Chaka said:
All mentioned in the article. Agree he undersold some of them, particularly Renfrow.

Any notable free agents we should be loving? I think Perryman looks like a very solid acquisition.
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for sure.  i wasn't trying to find things not in the article.  just pointing out positives.  

and that perryman pick up is looking unreal!  i like that dude!  he brings the wood!  but as he pointed out, most/all of the vets are on 1 year deals.  psilon and Thomas and pretty sweet too.

 
Chaka said:
All mentioned in the article. Agree he undersold some of them, particularly Renfrow.

Any notable free agents we should be loving? I think Perryman looks like a very solid acquisition.
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Hayward. Perryman. I think Yannick got slowed by injury week 1 and isn't 100% yet. 

 
Chadstroma said:
Yes, my comment was directly about Wilbon and what I disagree with that you said you agreed with. 

I later pointed out that what you said is racist. You think that proved your point but you missed mine. 

This everyone is racist thinking cheapens actual racism. The language of today seems to increasingly use the extreme to label people. There is no thought as to the actual meaning of the language. Racist, Nazi, Fascist, etc are thrown out at the drop of the hat and with little or no support for it. The over use of these labels cheapens that actual ugliness and disgusting reality of actual racist, Nazi's, Fascist etc. My point is that we are doing society harm with this position that everything is racist. 
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the statement was that everyone has some degree of racism in them.  NOT that everyone is a racist.  coming from wilbon, a person much more nuanced, than me, in the realm of racism, it made sense to me.  i tend to defer to people who have way more experience than i do.  i have never really experienced racism, directed at me. 

i didn't miss your point.  the cancel culture movement is silly.  however, racism is racism.  if you want to call it unconscious bias, go ahead.  if you want to call it prejudice, go ahead.  i still think it's a form of racism.  i don't think that calling gruden's michelin tire comments racist, diminishes "actual racism".   i do agree that calling everything racist, is harmful to society.

 
DocHolliday said:
And by the way, something does smell awfully fishy that the Gruden emails leaked while WFT goes on unscathed.   
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Rumor is the NFL wants take take down Tommy Boy as well. If that happens only then will the team have a chance to be good again.

That knot head does not know how to run a team.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Rumor is the NFL wants take take down Tommy Boy as well. If that happens only then will the team have a chance to be good again.

That knot head does not know how to run a team.
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Those around Davis reportedly say that he believes the NFL is trying to get him to sell. Which you can see he is frustrated when asked and he says "go ask the NFL, the have all the answers". It makes sense, he didn't buy his way into the league like most of the rest of the club. 

 
I am getting more and more excited to see what  Bisaccia does with the HC job. Every time I see anyone comment about him it isn't just praise but "best" comes up often. 

Here is another from Will Compton:

I wasn’t on this team long —but long enough to know he was the best leader of players I’ve been around. No one in that building has more player-respect than Coach Bisaccia He’s also the goat of speeches.

 
ProFootballTalk

@ProFootballTalk

The league knew about the Jon Gruden emails no later than June 2021; by waiting to bring the situation to a head in early October, the NFL undermined the Raiders' competitive interests and compromised the integrity of the entire season.

 
ZADO said:
ProFootballTalk

@ProFootballTalk

The league knew about the Jon Gruden emails no later than June 2021; by waiting to bring the situation to a head in early October, the NFL undermined the Raiders' competitive interests and compromised the integrity of the entire season.
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If I ever hear of some jackrear ever say that the league being against the Raiders is all in our Raider Nation heads... I will punch them in the face. 

 
Chadstroma said:
If I ever hear of some jackrear ever say that the league being against the Raiders is all in our Raider Nation heads... I will punch them in the face. 
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Maybe this will inspire the team to new heights.

Take the us against them to another level ,i can dream cant i ?  

 
ZADO said:
ProFootballTalk

@ProFootballTalk

The league knew about the Jon Gruden emails no later than June 2021; by waiting to bring the situation to a head in early October, the NFL undermined the Raiders' competitive interests and compromised the integrity of the entire season.
Click to expand...
This assumes the NFL itself, or someone high up in its hierarchy, is the leaker. Florio believes that to be the case. But we don't know that for sure. 

 
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