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***Cleveland at Kansas City -9.5 (57)*** Progressive vs State Farm


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1 minute ago, cheese said:

The crews have always told us on the sidelines it has to be completely blatant throw of the ball for them to consider a flag for that. Anything even somewhat resembling a fumble, intent doesn’t matter and it goes to the spot it goes out of bounds. The reason I said “basically” is you said 30 yards. I think if you threw it 30 yards, they might deem that a forward pass. 

Sorry they told you wrong....you don’t get an advantage fumbling the ball forward “out of bounds”....bean bag at spot of fumble is as far forward as it can go if going out of bounds...

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The uprights are putting in an MVP-caliber performance this weekend.

I'm sure his insurance covers it.

@SethCPayne: Lotta people on here claiming that's the dumbest rule in football have never tried to buy a beer in the 4th quarter.

2 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

Sorry they told you wrong....you don’t get an advantage fumbling the ball forward “out of bounds”....bean bag at spot of fumble is as far forward as it can go if going out of bounds...

And that’s why forward and out of bounds through end zone is such a big deal

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1 minute ago, Stinkin Ref said:

Sorry they told you wrong....you don’t get an advantage fumbling the ball forward “out of bounds”....bean bag at spot of fumble is as far forward as it can go if going out of bounds...

What rule are you citing here? I would love to find out this is being enforced incorrectly every Friday, but I doubt it. 

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1 minute ago, cheese said:

What rule are you citing here? I would love to find out this is being enforced incorrectly every Friday, but I doubt it. 

Sorry in bed so don’t have my rule book handy.....but think about it....why not do this on every play if legal.....?

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Just now, Stinkin Ref said:

Sorry in bed so don’t have my rule book handy.....but think about it....why not do this on every play if legal.....?

Happens a lot here. Risky and I’ve seen it backfire, but it’s worth it enough that teams do it. Didn’t mean to hijack the thread. My only point was this is a topic that is front and center at the HS level because it’s exploited in ways that I’ve never seen with NFL rules. 

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2 minutes ago, cheese said:

Happens a lot here. Risky and I’ve seen it backfire, but it’s worth it enough that teams do it. Didn’t mean to hijack the thread. My only point was this is a topic that is front and center at the HS level because it’s exploited in ways that I’ve never seen with NFL rules. 

What’s the risk if you fumble it forward intentionally out of bounds 

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3 minutes ago, cheese said:

Happens a lot here. Risky and I’ve seen it backfire, but it’s worth it enough that teams do it. Didn’t mean to hijack the thread. My only point was this is a topic that is front and center at the HS level because it’s exploited in ways that I’ve never seen with NFL rules. 

It’s not legal in high school....college... nfl or pee wee...

 

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3 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

It’s not legal in high school....college... nfl or pee wee...

 

What are you saying is illegal? Fumbling forwards?  You’re allowed to fumble right?  When the ball goes out of bounds it goes to the fumbling team at the spot it went out of bounds. 

 

1 minute ago, Stinkin Ref said:

Refs don’t officiate “intent”.....you can’t be three yards short of a first down and “fumble” it four yards forward out of bounds and get a first down...

I definitely agree they don’t care about intent. I’m not sure why you say the last part but I’ve been wrong before. 

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1 minute ago, cheese said:

What are you saying is illegal? Fumbling forwards?  You’re allowed to fumble right?  When the ball goes out of bounds it goes to the fumbling team at the spot it went out of bounds. 

 

I definitely agree they don’t care about intent. I’m not sure why you say the last part but I’ve been wrong before. 

Nope....if “it goes out of bounds”....that’s the key....then offense gets it at the spot of the fumble....not where it went out...but end zone is different 

 

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Just now, Stinkin Ref said:

Nope....if “it goes out of bounds”....that’s the key....then offense gets it at the spot of the fumble....not where it went out...but end zone is different 

 

Check your rulebook tomorrow. I’m genuinely curious. We have been told several times (because this keeps coming up!) that the NFHS rule is the ball is spotted where it went out of bounds and it has always been enforced that way. We have even followed up after games and been assured it was being enforced correctly. 

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8 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

you cant be allowed to just go balls to the wall and fumble it into (without crossing) the end zone in possesion with no penalty....take care of the ball....if you chose to expose it...that on you ....whats the "fair" rule?....if you don't value the ball, its not the defenses fault....you don't just get a 'free pass" cause your by the goaline....in fact, you should feel the pain so to speak....

Penalized by losing the ball and 20 yards for trying to score? More importantly rewarding the defense with the ball and 20 yards when they didn't even recover it.

I'm for moving it back to the 20 but retaining possession as a suitable penalty. Losing possession is too much. 

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6 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

.....you can’t be three yards short of a first down and “fumble” it four yards forward out of bounds and get a first down...

Thanks, we are starting a Holy Roller movement to reinstate the forward fumble. 

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35 minutes ago, Insein said:

Penalized by losing the ball and 20 yards for trying to score? More importantly rewarding the defense with the ball and 20 yards when they didn't even recover it.

I'm for moving it back to the 20 but retaining possession as a suitable penalty. Losing possession is too much. 

Why can't the opponents End Zone be both good and bad for the offense? There is really only 1 play that has to be avoided and that is a turnover or fumble that bounces in and then out of the end zone? All turnovers in the red zone should be avoided quite frankly but this one stings.

Stefanski sided with the idea that Higgins needed to protect the football and understand they had 1st and goal at worst there. He was clear in his press conference after the game. 

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If you are going to award the defense the ball, why is it on the 20? My opinion it should be on the 1 yard line. The ball and 20 free yards is too much.

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3 hours ago, themeistersinger said:

Watching the replay again today of the Higgins fumble, his hands come apart at the exact instant his head is hit by the tackler's helmet.  Not calling the penalty was really egregious.  

Bad call might have cost them the game.

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8 hours ago, themeistersinger said:

Watching the replay again today of the Higgins fumble, his hands come apart at the exact instant his head is hit by the tackler's helmet.  Not calling the penalty was really egregious.  

Yep. I think that is something almost everyone, a Chief homer or two aside, can agree on. 

4 hours ago, rockaction said:

Bad call might have cost them the game.

Perhaps, but of course there is no way to know how the game plays out if they score a touchdown there. Bad luck for the Browns, but there was still a lot of game to be played. 

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20 hours ago, themeistersinger said:

Watching the replay again today of the Higgins fumble, his hands come apart at the exact instant his head is hit by the tackler's helmet.  Not calling the penalty was really egregious.  

I agree that it should have been a penalty, but that was a difficult call to make in real time.  I'll openly admit that I didn't see a penalty the first time, and the official who was in position to make the call had to deal with possession, the goal line, the pylon, the fumble, etc. and it's kind of hard to blame him for missing the helmet-to-helmet contact during a dive.

The rule itself is just asinine and hopefully will get changed.

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14 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Yep. I think that is something almost everyone, a Chief homer or two aside, can agree on. 

Perhaps, but of course there is no way to know how the game plays out if they score a touchdown there. Bad luck for the Browns, but there was still a lot of game to be played. 

nobody ever said it wasn't helmet to helmet and shouldn't have been called.....it could have been a penalty....just like many other helmet to helmets that happen in a game and don't get called.....but they missed it at full speed and as mentioned before there were a lot of other things to "officiate" going on at that split second...........and its not reviewable in the NFL.....if you want to argue they should make it reviewable, that's fine....but that is a different discussion.... 

the CLE coach even indicated they have an "end zone reaching rule".....as probably does EVERY other NFL team because they all KNOW this rule and the severity of the penalty.....its not a surprise.....so that's where the onus has to be on the team with the ball to protect it at that part of the field....if you try to "make a play"......you are putting your team at risk for a severe consequence.....a true hero/goat situation.....you know that ahead of time...if it stays in the end zone and recovered by defense....you have a touchback.....if recovered by the offense, it goes back to the spot of the fumble outside of the end zone...if it goes through the end zone.....touchback...

"making up" some crazy rule like giving it back to the offense at the 20....is just crazy......that kind of goes outside the concept of the game.....let's pretend is was a legal hit so we can take that emotion out of the equation.......why does the defensive team get penalized for the offense not protecting the ball, putting it and his team at risk trying to make a play.......what reason would the offensive player not have on every one of these plays to reach and and try to be the "hero" if they know there is no risk if they get it knocked loose and it bounces through the end zone.....if the defense makes a nice play, they should be rewarded too right?...

bottom line.....you don't just get to fumble it out of bounds through the end zone and get some kind of "do overs" at the one yard line or the 20.....

 

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8 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I agree that it should have been a penalty, but that was a difficult call to make in real time.  I'll openly admit that I didn't see a penalty the first time, and the official who was in position to make the call had to deal with possession, the goal line, the pylon, the fumble, etc. and it's kind of hard to blame him for missing the helmet-to-helmet contact during a dive.

The rule itself is just asinine and hopefully will get changed.

I agree that the official was in a tough spot, and even after seeing a couple replays I did not notice it being helmet to helmet.  But since the play was being reviewed any way, the NFL should allow the hit to be reviewed too.  I guess I'm advocating that helmet-to-helmet should be reviewable, even if it requires a challenge flag from the opposing team, if we don't want too many interruptions to the flow of the game.

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