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DC as 51st state


stlrams

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4 minutes ago, squistion said:

Long overdue as DC residents have been denied their right of self-governance and have faced taxation without representation.

Why not just copy and paste their Marion Barry-issued license plates as an argument? Oh, you did. :mellow:

Edited by rockaction
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6 minutes ago, squistion said:

Long overdue as DC residents have been denied their right of self-governance and have faced taxation without representation.

Why not make it part of Virginia or Maryland though?

 

Houston is 10 times larger land area and has 4 times as many people, make Houston its own state!

Edited by MTskibum
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8 minutes ago, MTskibum said:

Why not make it part of Virginia or Maryland though?

 

Houston is 10 times larger land area and has 4 times as many people, make Houston its own state!

Wut.

Houston has voting representation in both chambers of Congress. DC does not.

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1 minute ago, Apple Jack said:

Wut.

Houston has voting representation in both chambers of Congress. DC does not.

So dc would not if they were part of maryland or virginia?

 

You only responded to half my post. So I just want to clarify the other half to see if it answers your concerns.

Edited by MTskibum
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1 minute ago, MTskibum said:

So dc would not if they were part of maryland or virginia?

 

You only responded to half my post. So I just want to clarify the other half to see if it answers your concerns.

To the best of my knowledge, D.C. has not been given the opportunity to become part of Maryland or Virginia.

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4 minutes ago, MTskibum said:

So dc would not if they were part of maryland or virginia?

 

You only responded to half my post. So I just want to clarify the other half to see if it answers your concerns.

I don't live in DC, but am just across the river and ride my bike there regularly. Haven't heard anything about an invitation to join MD or VA.

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2 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

Why is that any easier? And who decides which state they join? Is it the number 51 that bothers you?

 

I do not want either the republicans or the democrats to gain too much of an advantage in congress or in future presidential elections. I think the logical solution is for them to join an existing state.

 

I would also oppose North Dakota splitting into 2 states to increase the republican count.

 

In the next 24 years I want 12 years of republicans presidents and 12 years of democrats and this seems like a it could have a major impact on that.

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1 minute ago, Apple Jack said:

I don't live in DC, but am just across the river and ride my bike there regularly. Haven't heard anything about an invitation to join MD or VA.

Have they asked?

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18 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

What does this have to do with unity?

The administration, democrats and this board have preach about unity moving forward.  This Is clearly a wedge issue that would end any and all cooperation from the republicans.

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19 minutes ago, MTskibum said:

Why not make it part of Virginia or Maryland though?

 

Houston is 10 times larger land area and has 4 times as many people, make Houston its own state!

This is a separate argument from DC representation... but I think you are on to something. If you want to draw states that way such that all states have equal population, then we could combine both Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Iowa, Nebraska and Utah into one state with 2 senators, and then divide California into 8 (or whatever) with 16 Senators.

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28 minutes ago, Mile High said:

Like that was ever more then a fantasy. 

Well numerous members of this board took it seriously including joe...

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Just now, stlrams said:
22 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

What does this have to do with unity?

The administration, democrats and this board have preach about unity moving forward.  This Is clearly a wedge issue that would end any and all cooperation from the republicans.

DC statehood is not a wedge issue.

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1 minute ago, stlrams said:

The administration, democrats and this board have preach about unity moving forward.  This Is clearly a wedge issue that would end any and all cooperation from the republicans.

Putting forth an issue in a bill...allowing debate...and then a vote does not destroy unity.  Its how the system was meant to work.  Even on “wedge issues”.

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1 minute ago, stlrams said:

The administration, democrats and this board have preach about unity moving forward.  This Is clearly a wedge issue that would end any and all cooperation from the republicans.

You seem to wildly misread the context of the unity talk. Talk that I find ridiculous, fwiw.

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17 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Yes, sets my OCD off.

S. Dakota/ N. Dakota become The Dakotas, S. Carolina, N. Carolina becomes The Carolinas and make D.C. and Puerto Rico states. WALA.

Settled.  Look at the PSF getting #### done. 

 

Next Issue..................    

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16 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Yes, sets my OCD off.

S. Dakota/ N. Dakota become The Dakotas, S. Carolina, N. Carolina becomes The Carolinas and make D.C. and Puerto Rico states. WALA.

Just make it 52 so I can stop confusing # of playing cards and # of states

Still can have the symmetrical flag and all 7,6,7,6,7,6,7,6

X     X      X     X     X     X     X

    X      X     X     X     X     X

X     X     X     X     X     X     X

    X      X     X     X     X     X

X     X      X     X     X     X     X

    X      X     X     X     X     X

X     X      X     X     X     X     X

    X      X     X     X     X     X

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52 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Putting forth an issue in a bill...allowing debate...and then a vote does not destroy unity.  Its how the system was meant to work.  Even on “wedge issues”.

It does if they are successful by ending the filibuster which certain senators promise not to end.  

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28 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

This is mildly humorous while subtly revealing the true fear and motivation from the Republican POV.

 

25 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

All about getting 2 extra senators on their side.  Nothing else but that

Part of the problem we have is nobody either does anything non-partisan nor gives anyone the benefit of the doubt.  Not sure there’s anything to be done other than just move forward with what you think is right and deal with the fallout.

I will say this isn’t high on my priority list of items.  But that’s easy for me to say as I have representation.

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11 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

 

Part of the problem we have is nobody either does anything non-partisan nor gives anyone the benefit of the doubt.  Not sure there’s anything to be done other than just move forward with what you think is right and deal with the fallout.

I will say this isn’t high on my priority list of items.  But that’s easy for me to say as I have representation.

Throw them in with Maryland.  But it is partisan and really not much different that gerrymandering other than the mental gymnastics in between

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1 hour ago, Sea Duck said:

DC statehood is not a wedge issue.

Yeah I don't get that argument either.  This would make one more of about a 100 or so similar bills or attempting Constitutional Amendments that have worked their way through Congress over the years.  We're dealing with something that has been an "issue" since almost the beginning and I think the first massive movements towards trying to actually make it a state started in the 19th century.  

Having said that - I've always been opposed.  Because the Constitution says so and I still support Hamilton's (or Madison's, forget which one at this point) arguments as to why.  But I have no issue with the district itself getting smaller and letting Maryland or Virginia assume more of the territory back.  It was supposed to be for the seat of government, not a sprawling city like it is.  But, that is one of those 1700's things that we are still dealing with.  

 

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3 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Throw them in with Maryland.  But it is partisan and really not much different that gerrymandering other than the mental gymnastics in between

One of the first true bills to get into a committee hearing was written by a Republican.  And almost every year since the early 90's this bill/amendment/resolution gets brought up again.

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18 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:
24 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

:shrug:

Puerto Rico currently has a republican represenatative to US congress

The PR reps don't vote. DC has similar nonvoting reps.

Yes, I know. I was offering a counter to the "all about getting two extra senators on their side".

There has been a push to give PR statehood from the democrats as well, and it is not clear that they would vote in 2 democrat senators.

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47 minutes ago, stlrams said:

It does if they are successful by ending the filibuster which certain senators promise not to end.  

Which is a separate issue as well. And again would be debated and all. 
 

Unity doesn’t mean just only doing things the other party likes.

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12 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

I would say it is much more akin to the efforts to end partisan gerrymandering.

so you want to end gerrymandering with even MORE gerrymandering?

This is nothing more than a partisan grab to ensure no other party ever comes to power again except Democrats.

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4 minutes ago, dawgtrails said:

Yes, I know. I was offering a counter to the "all about getting two extra senators on their side".

There has been a push to give PR statehood from the democrats as well, and it is not clear that they would vote in 2 democrat senators.

The Republican Party once supported statehood for DC, as part of their foundational principles of self-determination. They did not formally oppose statehood for DC until 1992.

Technically, the Republican Party still supports statehood for Puerto Rico, although I wonder if the Trump wing of the party is aware of that fact.

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2 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

so you want to end gerrymandering with even MORE gerrymandering?

This is nothing more than a partisan grab to ensure no other party ever comes to power again except Democrats.

I don't know where you're getting this.  I guess I'll have to write some extra sentences.

 I think that in a representative democracy, the overall voting preferences of the electorate should be closely correlated with the overall voting preferences of the electorate.  That's the most democratic.  In my view, those that are trying to end partisan gerrymandering have the moral high ground.  That's true despite their partisan lean -- I happen to live in Maryland, which historically has a strong pro-Democratic gerrymander.  From my perspective, even though I like the additional Democratic Congresspeople, it's anti-democratic and we should favorably view those trying to end the practice.

For the same reasons, those that are trying to get representation for DC have the moral high ground.  They're the ones trying to make things more democratic.  Those that oppose representation for DC are trying to make things less democratic.

That's why I said that DC statehood folks should be viewed similarly to anti-gerrymander interests rather than parties that are actually engaging in gerrymandering.

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19 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Which is a separate issue as well. And again would be debated and all. 
 

Unity doesn’t mean just only doing things the other party likes.

I think unity in this context means hey maybe let's all not be racist or rabidly irrational or invading the Capitol with people getting killed for make believe nonsense. Just spit-balling here.

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21 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

so you want to end gerrymandering with even MORE gerrymandering?

This is nothing more than a partisan grab to ensure no other party ever comes to power again except Democrats.

Giving Americans a voice in Congress is not gerrymandering.

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25 minutes ago, Apple Jack said:

Giving Americans a voice in Congress is not gerrymandering.

Listen, you might be able to fool the choir into thinking it's "giving people a voice", but smart people know exactly why it's being done and what's going on here.  And it's not because they want to give people a voice.  It's because they want to solidify power, plain and simple cut and dried.

You better believe that if DC was 95% Conservative this wouldn't even come up by the Democrats.

Edited by BladeRunner
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8 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Listen, you might be able to fool the choir into thinking it's "giving people a voice", but smart people know exactly why it's being done and what's going on here.  And it's not because they want to give people a voice.  It's because they want to solidify power, plain and simple cut and dried.

You better believe that if DC was 95% Conservative this wouldn't even come up by the Democrats.

 

This.

 

If it was just to give them a voice they would merge in with Maryland and Virginia.

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