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The INFLATION Thread


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46 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

Yep. I’ve got a new rental condo we are about 5 months in now on the sofas and they just finally gave up and gave us higher dollar ones that matched our other furnishings to get it settled. We are still down barstools, chaise loungers, and a dresser. We also are now over two months in waiting on shutters. Got renters showing up at first of June so have to get it fixed. 

Consignment store is your huckleberry. 

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On 5/9/2021 at 6:22 PM, stlrams said:

I gave that as a real example of the impact a $15 minimum wage but there are countless examples outside of preschools.  You have absolutely no understanding of real life problems that exist when politicians play with the economics for the sake of policies.  Why not $100 minimum wage?.

What is the correct number? The existence of the minimum wage concept implies it can’t be left up to the businesses themselves, or the free market.

So how does one determine an appropriate minimum wage? 

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1 hour ago, Terminalxylem said:

What is the correct number? The existence of the minimum wage concept implies it can’t be left up to the businesses themselves, or the free market.

So how does one determine an appropriate minimum wage? 

Cost of living index might be a good start but minimum wage jobs are not meant to be permanent jobs imo.  As mentioned earlier in this thread, it’s really purchasing power thats important as the cost of labor increases so does the cost of goods and services wiping out raises from an increasing minimum wage.  The real challenge is lowering the cost of living (government, tax’s, utilities etc) and offering pathways out of the minimum wage jobs for people that are interested.  

I’m supportive of increasing minimum wage but suggest it’s done based on statistics vs campaign slogan.  In addition, there must be off-setting triggers for businesses or families that are significantly impacted financially when you increase the minimum wage.  

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1 hour ago, stlrams said:

Cost of living index might be a good start but minimum wage jobs are not meant to be permanent jobs imo.  As mentioned earlier in this thread, it’s really purchasing power thats important as the cost of labor increases so does the cost of goods and services wiping out raises from an increasing minimum wage.  The real challenge is lowering the cost of living (government, tax’s, utilities etc) and offering pathways out of the minimum wage jobs for people that are interested.  

I’m supportive of increasing minimum wage but suggest it’s done based on statistics vs campaign slogan.  In addition, there must be off-setting triggers for businesses or families that are significantly impacted financially when you increase the minimum wage.  

Do you believe the minimum wage has kept up with cost of living or inflation over the years?

 

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11 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

How many non kids, non charity types, non illegal immigrants are working minimum wage jobs? 

37 people. 

Im going to guess some define "charity types" quite differently.  

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17 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

How many non kids, non charity types, non illegal immigrants are working minimum wage jobs? 

37 people. 

1. Do you have any real numbers? 
2. What does “charity types” mean? 
3. What’s the point of this post? 

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17 hours ago, GROOT said:

rename this "Biden's Plan Thread"

nobody on the left wants to admit that raising labor costs and higher taxes = inflation

they'll blame everything else but those two factors 

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5 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Im going to guess some define "charity types" quite differently.  

I mean actual charity. Lots of organizations out there that line up jobs for people that cant really perform jobs adequately. They get social security disability and other monies that ultimately a job doesnt increase. If they earn 200 bucks working, 200 bucks is basically deducted(oversimplifying a bit, but mostly the case). The charity might assign a helper to go help for many hours of the day. The agreement is usually minimum wage since it is more about just getting them involved in their community. 

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

nobody on the left wants to admit that raising labor costs and higher taxes = inflation

they'll blame everything else but those two factors 

Its amazing how many "excuses" there have been for rising costs...

Chlorine shortage- factory fire in August

Gas shortage- delivery driver shortage

Gas prices rising- Russian hackers

 

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1 minute ago, parasaurolophus said:

I mean actual charity. Lots of organizations out there that line up jobs for people that cant really perform jobs adequately. They get social security disability and other monies that ultimately a job doesnt increase. If they earn 200 bucks working, 200 bucks is basically deducted(oversimplifying a bit, but mostly the case). The charity might assign a helper to go help for many hours of the day. The agreement is usually minimum wage since it is more about just getting them involved in their community. 

Ok...sure...and I know you were being hyperbolic...but I think your idea of who all is performing minimum wage jobs and the numbers are way off then.

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Just now, sho nuff said:

Ok...sure...and I know you were being hyperbolic...but I think your idea of who all is performing minimum wage jobs and the numbers are way off then.

Less than 2% of all jobs pay minimum wage. Once you remove all the things i mentioned how many can actually be left? 

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Just now, jobarules said:

Its amazing how many "excuses" there have been for rising costs...

Chlorine shortage- factory fire in August

Gas shortage- delivery driver shortage

Gas prices rising- Russian hackers

 

There actually were Russian Hackers that shut down a pipeline.  That isn't an excuse...its an actual fact of what has happened.  Its causing shortages and rising prices in some areas.

Prices have risen steadily over the last year (you know...people driving and traveling again after being mostly at home.

Its amazing how actual facts are taken as excuses...

 

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Just now, parasaurolophus said:

Less than 2% of all jobs pay minimum wage. Once you remove all the things i mentioned how many can actually be left? 

zThen that less than 2% getting a rise in pay to coincide with cost of living/inflation should not cause prices in goods to rise so significantly...should it?

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Just now, sho nuff said:

zThen that less than 2% getting a rise in pay to coincide with cost of living/inflation should not cause prices in goods to rise so significantly...should it?

Thats not how this works. Government interference should never be justified by saying this shouldnt really screw up too much. 

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On 5/10/2021 at 7:06 AM, The Commish said:

It's inevitable with part of the contingent here in the PSF, so I'll just flat out say it now.  Just because a price on something rises, doesn't mean it's because of inflation (gas will be at the top of this list I am confident).  That will be a constant and incorrect narrative moving forward for the next few months.

Didn't think I'd have to bump this part THIS soon....rising prices are but one piece of the equation when labeling something "inflated".  Inflation and "rising prices" are NOT synonyms.  

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41 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

 

Thats not how this works. Government interference should never be justified by saying this shouldnt really screw up too much. 

Nobody is saying that.  People are just asking for some factual, clinical approach to assessing the causes of price spikes we are seeing.

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56 minutes ago, jobarules said:

Its amazing how many "excuses" there have been for rising costs...

Chlorine shortage- factory fire in August

Gas shortage- delivery driver shortage

Gas prices rising- Russian hackers

 

those events go away

increasing the cost of minimum, unskilled labor by 10-20 and even 50% doesn't 

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

 

Thats not how this works. Government interference should never be justified by saying this shouldnt really screw up too much. 

The point is...if the argument against is complains about the cost of goods...being only 2% of all jobs would make that not a very compelling argument.  

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

 

Thats not how this works. Government interference should never be justified by saying this shouldnt really screw up too much. 

I don't see how you can argue this and not conceded that they currently are interfering and it's screwing things up.  But maybe you are ok with removing a minimum wage altogether.

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2 hours ago, sho nuff said:

Do you believe the minimum wage has kept up with cost of living or inflation over the years?

 

Not in certain areas where cost of living is expensive.  That’s why the $15 minimum wage is simply a campaign slogan that mainly benefits unions and not working poor in the long run.

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1 hour ago, sho nuff said:

zThen that less than 2% getting a rise in pay to coincide with cost of living/inflation should not cause prices in goods to rise so significantly...should it?

I know from my business that we give everyone a raise after minimum wage increase so this impacts most employees that are hourly.  In addition, most union contracts are tied to minimum wage so if it increases so do the wages paid under union contract.  For example, contract stipulates starting hourly rate per hour is 150% of state minimum wage. 

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Regarding minimum wage, my state will go from $10.10 to $15.00 over 5 years.  Currently at $12 now with $1 increases 9/21, 9/22 and 9/23.  My personal experiences as I was very involved with our state government regarding this issue was it’s really all the unions pushing.  Mainly healthcare, janitorial, grocery and contractors.  All their contracts are tied to the minimum wage.  

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10 minutes ago, stlrams said:

Not in certain areas where cost of living is expensive.  That’s why the $15 minimum wage is simply a campaign slogan that mainly benefits unions and not working poor in the long run.

I don’t think there are many areas at all that the federal minimum wage has kept up.  Im not just talking in places of high cost of living. like NY or SF.

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

I don’t think there are many areas at all that the federal minimum wage has kept up.  Im not just talking in places of high cost of living. like NY or SF.

I have no problem adjusting federal minimum for inflation annually.  But let be honest, $15 goes further in rural America vs urban/high cost areas so again, it makes no practical sense for $15 for all.

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7 minutes ago, stlrams said:

I have no problem adjusting federal minimum for inflation annually.  But let be honest, $15 goes further in rural America vs urban/high cost areas so again, it makes no practical sense for $15 for all.

:goodposting:

 

You nail it, a blanket rate across the country is stupid and lazy. 

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2 hours ago, sho nuff said:

Do you believe the minimum wage has kept up with cost of living or inflation over the years?

No, it hasn't.  Here is the inflation adjusted graph of minimum wages over the years.  Based on this and the damage it would do the thought of a $15 minimum is general insanity.  I have been a proponent of raising the fed minimum to about $10 and then tag it to CPI, like we do SS.  The fact that this has never been done previously (what, 16 times before?) is execrable conduct by Congress.

But, really, anything over $10 is too much and will end up hurting more than helping.  (I'd also argue that the wage for under 18 be lower, maybe $8.50.  The best way to get a job is to have had a job and this would encourage teenage employment).

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27 minutes ago, stlrams said:

I have no problem adjusting federal minimum for inflation annually.  But let be honest, $15 goes further in rural America vs urban/high cost areas so again, it makes no practical sense for $15 for all.

Sure...maybe more state to state with federal oversight to ensure states follow along.

I think $15 has some statistical support for being phased that way based on inflation.

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Just now, sho nuff said:

Sure...maybe more state to state with federal oversight to ensure states follow along.

I think $15 has some statistical support for being phased that way based on inflation.

Yeah, no. 

States and localities should be able to freely set their own minimum wages without Big Brother breathing down their necks.  I have no issue with a low, fair federal minimum that would be appropriate in Iuka, MS and a higher local minimum wage in Seattle.

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15 minutes ago, Sand said:

Yeah, no. 

States and localities should be able to freely set their own minimum wages without Big Brother breathing down their necks.  I have no issue with a low, fair federal minimum that would be appropriate in Iuka, MS and a higher local minimum wage in Seattle.

Except when they don’t keep up with cost of living and inflation.

Because this would end up being a red state vs blue state issue.

 

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How many of the people begrudging the minimum wage workers a few dollars are willing to honestly scrutinize their own bloated salaries?  Our society has created barriers to employment that aren't based on skill or ability.  Minimum wage workers are some of the few who aren't overpaid. I recently visited an ER during the overnight hours and saw that the healthcare heroes, who earn good wages and benefits, were unable to operate an MRI machine or make a plaster splint.  These are simple tasks that a middle schooler could be trained to do.

But I don't know if a higher minimum wage will level the field.  SoCal still pays less for labor than other parts of the country with much lower min wage. Aggressive taxation of wealth and high earnings is needed.  It's a shame that we are not having a class struggle, but it appears that the elites have effectively used race to divide the poors and keep them poor.

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13 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Except when they don’t keep up with cost of living and inflation.

Because this would end up being a red state vs blue state issue.

That's why the Feds should implement a CPI adjustment to minimum wage - it will take care of this issue.

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1 hour ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Nobody is saying that.  People are just asking for some factual, clinical approach to assessing the causes of price spikes we are seeing.

That wasnt really the conversation sho and I were having. I get we kind of went on a tangent, so I will bow out here with that part. 

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14 minutes ago, Sand said:

That's why the Feds should implement a CPI adjustment to minimum wage - it will take care of this issue.

Sure.  That vs what I was saying was leave it up to the states to do so...with federal oversight to ensure they do.

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6 hours ago, Sand said:

That's why the Feds should implement a CPI adjustment to minimum wage - it will take care of this issue.

If the states set the minimum wage and the feds set the cpi adjustment...can't the states just reset the minimum wage if they wanted to reverse the CPI?

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8 hours ago, The Commish said:

Didn't think I'd have to bump this part THIS soon....rising prices are but one piece of the equation when labeling something "inflated".  Inflation and "rising prices" are NOT synonyms.  

I don't get it.  If prices rise which reduces my purchasing power (the dollar I had can now buy less bananas than before because bananas cost more), that equals inflation, no?

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6 hours ago, Caveman33 said:

How many of the people begrudging the minimum wage workers a few dollars are willing to honestly scrutinize their own bloated salaries?  Our society has created barriers to employment that aren't based on skill or ability.  Minimum wage workers are some of the few who aren't overpaid. I recently visited an ER during the overnight hours and saw that the healthcare heroes, who earn good wages and benefits, were unable to operate an MRI machine or make a plaster splint.  These are simple tasks that a middle schooler could be trained to do.

But I don't know if a higher minimum wage will level the field.  SoCal still pays less for labor than other parts of the country with much lower min wage. Aggressive taxation of wealth and high earnings is needed.  It's a shame that we are not having a class struggle, but it appears that the elites have effectively used race to divide the poors and keep them poor.

I certainly don’t begrudge them.  Many of them are my customers.  I begrudge the system that is paying people more not to work than min wage employees.  That is a really bad system.

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21 minutes ago, djmich said:

I don't get it.  If prices rise which reduces my purchasing power (the dollar I had can now buy less bananas than before because bananas cost more), that equals inflation, no?

There needs to be an increase in price and a devalue of the dollar (dollar "worth" less).

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3 minutes ago, The Commish said:

There needs to be an increase in price and a devalue of the dollar (dollar "worth" less).

Help me...for real not trying to be a pita.

A dollar is a dollar.  If today it can buy 100 "things" and tomorrow it can only buy "99 things" because the price of things went up (inflation occurred)...then a dollar is worth less. 

What I'm missing is how prices change in a vacuum relative to a dollar devaluing...aren't they inter-related?  Maybe better said, when is it that the price of things go up and my dollar is worth more...are you talking just relative to other currencies?

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1 hour ago, djmich said:

If the states set the minimum wage and the feds set the cpi adjustment...can't the states just reset the minimum wage if they wanted to reverse the CPI?

Right now a state minimum wage must be higher than the federal, so they're two different entities.  I guess it would be possible for a state to have a higher minimum wage with no CPI and eventually degrades into a federal one with a CPI.

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46 minutes ago, djmich said:

Help me...for real not trying to be a pita.

A dollar is a dollar.  If today it can buy 100 "things" and tomorrow it can only buy "99 things" because the price of things went up (inflation occurred)...then a dollar is worth less. 

What I'm missing is how prices change in a vacuum relative to a dollar devaluing...aren't they inter-related?  Maybe better said, when is it that the price of things go up and my dollar is worth more...are you talking just relative to other currencies?

A dollar isnt a dollar.  Its value changes in comparison to other currencies. It can be worth more today than tomorrow or vice versa. Inflation happens when that value decreases AND things get more expensive. 

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1 hour ago, djmich said:

Help me...for real not trying to be a pita.

A dollar is a dollar.  If today it can buy 100 "things" and tomorrow it can only buy "99 things" because the price of things went up (inflation occurred)...then a dollar is worth less. 

What I'm missing is how prices change in a vacuum relative to a dollar devaluing...aren't they inter-related?  Maybe better said, when is it that the price of things go up and my dollar is worth more...are you talking just relative to other currencies?

If the price went up because the item became rare or in high demand, that isnt inflation. There is usually another item that people can buy instead, or there likely will be.

When all the items go up, thats inflation. (Obviously some exceptions)

So if for example everybody wanted veggie burgers all of a sudden and the price goes through the roof. Well that should leave lots of beef to be had for cheap. Or pork or chicken. 

If all of it goes up, thats inflation. Unless all of a sudden everybody just decided to eat more. 

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7 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

If the price went up because the item became rare or in high demand, that isnt inflation. There is usually another item that people can buy instead, or there likely will be.

When all the items go up, thats inflation. (Obviously some exceptions)

So if for example everybody wanted veggie burgers all of a sudden and the price goes through the roof. Well that should leave lots of beef to be had for cheap. Or pork or chicken. 

If all of it goes up, thats inflation. Unless all of a sudden everybody just decided to eat more. 

The currency comparisons aside, this is sort of what I was getting at.

High demand seems to be "out of the equation" for how people interpret inflation and I just don't think that's correct.  Supply and demand drive price.  If price is going up and the driver is demand...then thats inflation.  Not sure why we're splitting hairs if its the price of my baseball card collection or bananas.

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13 hours ago, Sand said:

Yeah, no. 

States and localities should be able to freely set their own minimum wages without Big Brother breathing down their necks.  I have no issue with a low, fair federal minimum that would be appropriate in Iuka, MS and a higher local minimum wage in Seattle.

It always amazed me that the CPA firm I started at in the mid-90s straight out of college had figured out how to index per diem by city/state area and then adjusted it annually for inflation while our government can’t figure out how to do it for the minimum wage 25 years later. 

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8 hours ago, Shula-holic said:

It always amazed me that the CPA firm I started at in the mid-90s straight out of college had figured out how to index per diem by city/state area and then adjusted it annually for inflation while our government can’t figure out how to do it for the minimum wage 25 years later. 

They've done it ~16 times.  It's a feature, not a bug.

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15 hours ago, The Commish said:

A dollar isnt a dollar.  Its value changes in comparison to other currencies. It can be worth more today than tomorrow or vice versa. Inflation happens when that value decreases AND things get more expensive. 

This is simply not true.

In 2019, the U.S. had 2.3% CPI price inflation, yet the value of dollar increased (DXY index went from 90.1 to 96.3).

Price inflation within an economy is a totally separate concept from currency value relative to other currencies.

The former is purchasing power measured relative to a basket of goods and services, the latter is influenced by other factors including interest rates, demand in global trade, etc.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/TVC-DXY/

 

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9 hours ago, GoBirds said:

4.2% inflation in April.....buckle up boys. 

Starting to feel like the 70’s isn’t it?  Long gas lines, shortages, high gas prices, highest increase in inflation in 12 years, rising crime rates, an ineffective President who appears feeble and out of touch...

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18 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

Starting to feel like the 70’s isn’t it?  Long gas lines, shortages, high gas prices, highest increase in inflation in 12 years, rising crime rates, an ineffective President who appears feeble and out of touch...

"appears"?

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