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Roe v. Wade Overturned (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ekbeats
- Start date
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Just hold your money and send it to some girl in need in the future after this all shakes out.
Better yet, set up an AirBnB for Aborcations in your home.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
The leak sucks, really, no matter who did it.
Lawyerguys, who else might have access besides a clerk?
Lawyerguys, who else might have access besides a clerk?
BladeRunner
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
I realize you're feeling strongly about this right now, and I get it, but it is important in terms of understanding the veracity of the leak. I'd rather see the opinion and know what it says rather than getting up in arms about something that could be misleading.
Sand
Footballguy
ekbeats said:
Thanks for posting this. I'm eager to read the draft (which is linked to in the Politico article).
I'm on board with overruling Roe. The excerpts posted by Politico seem like the wrong way to go about it: they mostly consist of gratuitously cantankerous extra-legal political commentary.
dkp993
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I don't care WHO leaked it - I'm just very surprised it was leaked. It's a great importance whether you recognize it or not.
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Teumessian Fox
Wallet Inspector
Sure but this time it's your side claiming one of the parties in the equation isn't a person
This looks genuine to me (as a draft): https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000180-874f-dd36-a38c-c74f98520000
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Disagree....I shouldn't need a law degree to know if my hunting rifle or gun should be in my trunk, glove box, in my boxers, or out in plain sight as I travel. I shouldn't be able to bet on an NFL my computer during lunch in one state but not at home in another.
jm192
Footballguy
Bernie showing the real intent of the leak.
https://twitter.com/sensanders/status/1521303260933541890?s=21&t=o0yx_w-xNGAvPu6uTlHDww
https://twitter.com/sensanders/status/1521303260933541890?s=21&t=o0yx_w-xNGAvPu6uTlHDww
If Roe is indeed overturned, Texas will virtually eliminate abortions. Last year, the Legislature passed a so-called “trigger law” that would go into effect 30 days after the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, making performing abortion a felony.
The law would make an exception only to save the life of the pregnant patient or if they risk “substantial impairment of major bodily function.” Doctors could face life in prison and fines up to $100,000 if they perform abortions in violation of the law.
The law would make an exception only to save the life of the pregnant patient or if they risk “substantial impairment of major bodily function.” Doctors could face life in prison and fines up to $100,000 if they perform abortions in violation of the law.
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BladeRunner
Footballguy
Maybe we should just make everything a federal law just so we don't have to think about it anymore?
I hope that's not your reasoning.
Or Maybe we should get rid of the states entirely? What is the price of your freedom?
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Sand
Footballguy
krista4
Footballguy
Yes, and I'll admit to not having read all 98 pages at this point when I have important reality TV to catch up on (have you seen last week's Top Chef?), but it's from nearly three months ago. Why such an old draft? Was this joined by sufficient justices that this is indeed the law, or was it, in the end, narrowed in order to get necessary votes? In other words, they could have had, for instance, a 5-4 majority with respect to this particular case, and Alito was assigned, but then five weren't willing to sign onto a full reversal. Or, as you know, any other number of twists and turns in the last three months.
Do I think it's more likely that some version of overturning is the result? Yes. But I'm not relying on leaks of unknown origin of three-month-old documents to say with certainty.
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timschochet
Footballguy
Part of my bitterness is towards Ruth Bader Ginsburg. She was urged to retire in 2014 and she refused. For all of her accomplishments, this may be her lasting legacy.
Im really outraged right now.
Im really outraged right now.
Sand
Footballguy
That's just the prelude. The real goal is to pass a law with a trigger clause that every time SCOTUS rules in the conservative direction SCOTUS shall be expanded until such a number is reached to reverse said decision.
That's hyperbolic but I can't wait until Warren starts screeching tomorrow - it will be something similar.
timschochet
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Just for the record- as much as I HATE this decision I could never support packing the court. Many of us feel this way. If that battle comes I will be on your side.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Per a Washington Post article on 12/7/21:
17 states with post-Roe trigger laws in place that will ban nearly all abortions: Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah
14 States with laws that explicitly protect abortion: California, Connecticut, DC, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nevada, New York, Oregon, Vermont, Washington
17 states with post-Roe trigger laws in place that will ban nearly all abortions: Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah
14 States with laws that explicitly protect abortion: California, Connecticut, DC, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nevada, New York, Oregon, Vermont, Washington
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quick-hands
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Yes Hillary screwed up. Ginsburg screwed up. The Democrats in the Senate, changing the rules screwed up. They all blew it.
But the difference is none of them wanted this to happen. That’s on Republicans. They can take ownership of this crime.
quick-hands
Footballguy
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I think the provenance of the leak is of secondary importance, but I do think it matters and will have long-reaching consequences for the Court. (BTW, that's one reason I seriously doubt it's from anyone associated with, or sympathetic to, Roberts. As someone who is clearly concerned with the Court's legitimacy, his job just got much harder.)
As for the decision itself, assuming the final version is similar to what's in the draft, I think it will be a disaster. But there's a part of me that says that after decades of a kind of "Phony War", where the right to abortion was getting chipped away even as supporters grew ever more complacent, maybe we just need the clarity of the stakes a decision like this provides. I recognize that's an easy thing for me to say as a person who is physically incapable of getting pregnant, but I just feel like if the alternative was a Roberts-led majority gradually gutting the decision over the course of the next decade, maybe it's better to have Alito put a bullet in its head so the American people can make a clear decision about what to do next.
As for the decision itself, assuming the final version is similar to what's in the draft, I think it will be a disaster. But there's a part of me that says that after decades of a kind of "Phony War", where the right to abortion was getting chipped away even as supporters grew ever more complacent, maybe we just need the clarity of the stakes a decision like this provides. I recognize that's an easy thing for me to say as a person who is physically incapable of getting pregnant, but I just feel like if the alternative was a Roberts-led majority gradually gutting the decision over the course of the next decade, maybe it's better to have Alito put a bullet in its head so the American people can make a clear decision about what to do next.
Sand
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Blessed be the fruit.
Yeah, I wouldn't put any stock in the idea that the draft will become the majority opinion with no significant revision. I'm just saying that it looks like a genuine draft as opposed to, like, a fake one from Jeff Maurer posing as Ethan Cohen.Yes, and I'll admit to not having read all 98 pages at this point when I have important reality TV to catch up on (have you seen last week's Top Chef?), but it's from nearly three months ago. Why such an old draft? Was this joined by sufficient justices that this is indeed the law, or was it, in the end, narrowed in order to get necessary votes? In other words, they could have had, for instance, a 5-4 majority with respect to this particular case, and Alito was assigned, but then five weren't willing to sign onto a full reversal. Or, as you know, any other number of twists and turns in the last three months.
Do I think it's more likely that some version of overturning is the result? Yes. But I'm not relying on leaks of unknown origin of three-month-old documents to say with certainty.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
No criminal statue was breached. This was a legal crime. Women are going to die. Again that’s not hyperbole.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
I've always hoped for a world where abortion was unnecessary. Maybe now Planned Parenthood can join the light and help make this travesty of a procedure a thing of the past.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Imagine if the leaker, before distributing the draft, did one of those "search and replace" pranks where they swapped every use of "the" for the f-word?
If they did I would instantly know that the leaker was my older brother, who used to do that to me in high school all the time.
krista4
Footballguy
Your first paragraph makes an excellent point, especially about Roberts. Good argument that it wouldn't be anyone associated with him.
Although I'm a person who is physically capable of getting pregnant and therefore has more "skin in the game," it would seem, I actually find myself nodding in agreement with your second paragraph as well. There's something to be said for just getting to the heart of the matter and seeing where we stand on this as a country (or as a collection of states), instead of expanding or chipping away around the edges while most people couldn't give a damn.
Yes, that's why I said I'd put stock in the opinion itself, not the leak. But I love the Ethan Coen thing.
timschochet
Footballguy
You’re not going to get your world. You’re going to get a world in which women obtain illegal, unhealthy abortions. And some of them will die.
quick-hands
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
Jackstraw
Footballguy
They’re already passing laws criminalizing going to another state to get an abortion. Literally holding women prisoners.
Teumessian Fox
Wallet Inspector
timschochet
Footballguy
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