I need some more daughter advice- this time from fellow atheists (1 Viewer)

[dgreen]

Ok I'm Christian just so you know. In your second paragraph you said they are free to believe. Yet now when they do, your thinking about squashing it. Let it run its course. Most Christians are good people believe it or not. Heck she may even convert you. Yes, she will probably worry you aren't going to heaven but that shouldn't bother you as you don't believe in heaven.

I'm divorced and Atheist. My ex-wife found religion after we split and is a very devout Baptist now.

My daughter (11.5) is very upset that we're not going to be in heaven together when we eventually die. When I said "If I live my life well and I am a good person, it shouldn't matter. If I'm wrong and there is a heaven, why wouldn't I get in there anyway?" and she came back the following day and said "My Mom said that you can't get into heaven until you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior."

That whole conversation bothers me on many different levels, even if I don't believe in heaven.

Would you mind expanding on this? I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

My daughter went through the same thing with a friend whose family is very religious. My daughter loved it at first, and I was concerned. But she eventually lost interest.

The problem I have is that churches and religions have designed methods of enticing and influencing children. They are intentionally trying to control their flock. And this is where I take issue. Children are easily influenced and do not have the knowledge or experience to understand what is going on.

Would blow my mind when I would hear my kids' friends say that the reason they liked church was because they got to watch movies and eat lots of candy.

 

[Henry Ford]

Ok I'm Christian just so you know. In your second paragraph you said they are free to believe. Yet now when they do, your thinking about squashing it. Let it run its course. Most Christians are good people believe it or not. Heck she may even convert you. Yes, she will probably worry you aren't going to heaven but that shouldn't bother you as you don't believe in heaven.

I'm divorced and Atheist. My ex-wife found religion after we split and is a very devout Baptist now.

My daughter (11.5) is very upset that we're not going to be in heaven together when we eventually die. When I said "If I live my life well and I am a good person, it shouldn't matter. If I'm wrong and there is a heaven, why wouldn't I get in there anyway?" and she came back the following day and said "My Mom said that you can't get into heaven until you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior."

That whole conversation bothers me on many different levels, even if I don't believe in heaven.

"Well, tell your mom I know Jesus has a thing for whores, but she should stop being one about my beliefs."

Or

"One of the reasons your mom and I aren't together anymore is that we disagree on things. I think being a good person is important."

 

[bcdjr1]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

What would you regard as improper influence?

In terms of Christianity, a church is one where Jesus is the center, a cult is where the dude running the church is.In short, anyway.

"A cult is a religion with no political power." - Tom Wolfe

 

[The Commish]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

 

[Green and Gold]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You mean like having adults pushing their mythology on an impressionable child?

Like college?

They push mythology on kids in college?

Well, more like doctrine, but yes.

"Is that a Ferrari?"

"Well, more like a Yugo, but Yes."

You're being pretty obtuse.I'm not surprised.

You think that mythology and doctrine are the same thing? That's not being obtuse...it's being stupid.

I wasn't comparing mythology and doctrine. I was comparing the pushing of either on impressionable youth by those on their respective positions.My daughter had an economics class last year that was such in name only. It was really a political opinion class with only one opinion expressed.

It's weird, I rarely saw anything like this in my undergrad and grad degrees. Maybe it's because I was compsci and cis.

There were only two professors I had that ever even seemed to lean one way or the other, one a staunchly conservative guy in his early 60s who taught accounting, and an a hippie tree-hugger 60's woman who taught some business related class (I don't really remember it very well). Strangely enough they are/were close friends.

 

[Henry Ford]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:

3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

 

[bcdjr1]

Yeah I agree with what all of you are saying. I knew I would. Still it's troubling. There's a part of me that feels like she's being brainwashed here, not too much different than if she had joined a cult.

The problem with belief systems - religious, agnostic, or atheistic - is that they all tend to brainwash people into believing their way. So she might be being brainwashed by the church to become religious, but the option of you "putting a stop to it" is basically you trying to brainwash her into becoming atheist.

I'm an atheist, btw. But not a parent.

 

[bcdjr1]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:

3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

The government?! Oh wait, they take more than 10%.

 

[Henry Ford]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:

3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

The government?! Oh wait, they take more than 10%.

You and Andy should start a bowling league or something.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You mean like having adults pushing their mythology on an impressionable child?

Like college?

They push mythology on kids in college?

Well, more like doctrine, but yes.

"Is that a Ferrari?"

"Well, more like a Yugo, but Yes."

You're being pretty obtuse.I'm not surprised.

You think that mythology and doctrine are the same thing? That's not being obtuse...it's being stupid.

I wasn't comparing mythology and doctrine. I was comparing the pushing of either on impressionable youth by those on their respective positions.My daughter had an economics class last year that was such in name only. It was really a political opinion class with only one opinion expressed.

Yeah, not going to continue this. Waste of time.

 

[TheMagus]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

What would you regard as improper influence?

One example I can think of is the church my brother became associated with due to his wife. We can't tell what sect of Christianity it is - just labeled as Christian. We looked into it a bit because I noticed sudden changes in my brother's behavior that seemed uncharacteristic - stopped drinking any alcohol, gets mad if anyone says "oh my god", started becoming somewhat secretive and less open about personal matters. The website for the church had only three videos posted, all of which were tackling the topic of battling the "gay agenda".

So in terms of my children, I would be concerned if one of them started attending a church such as this one. Obviously freedom of thought and expression is invaluable in the developmental stages. However children at that age are especially vulnerable and I'm not sure how much those environments actually promote "freedom of thought".

Like someone else posted, I think it is really important for you to find out for yourself what type of teachings are happening so you can have an open discourse with your daughter. Attend some masses and see what they are all about. You also do have a right as a parent to guide your child into adulthood. You should approach this as any other activity your daughter would become involved in and educate yourself about what she may be partaking in. Hopefully it's all completely benign and nothing like the "cult"-like environment that I suspect you may be fearing.

 

[dgreen]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:

3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

Tim doesn't strike me as the type of person who would jump to such grand conclusions based on something he doesn't know much about.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

If your kid needs religion to be a better person you ####ing failed as a parent.

 

[Henry Ford]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:

3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

Tim doesn't strike me as the type of person who would jump to such grand conclusions based on something he doesn't know much about.

That's not really a grand conclusion. If there is no God, and there's an organization demanding that you give 10% of everything you make to God, it's a con game. Maybe the preacher's an unwitting pawn, but it's still a con.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Agnostic (UU) here, and we tell my two daughters the same thing. If you mean it, you have to let her explore. Make sure she isnt being improperly influenced, but give her the freedom to decide for herself.

You mean like having adults pushing their mythology on an impressionable child?

Like college?

They push mythology on kids in college?

Well, more like doctrine, but yes.

"Is that a Ferrari?"

"Well, more like a Yugo, but Yes."

You're being pretty obtuse.I'm not surprised.

You think that mythology and doctrine are the same thing? That's not being obtuse...it's being stupid.

I wasn't comparing mythology and doctrine. I was comparing the pushing of either on impressionable youth by those on their respective positions.My daughter had an economics class last year that was such in name only. It was really a political opinion class with only one opinion expressed.

It's weird, I rarely saw anything like this in my undergrad and grad degrees. Maybe it's because I was compsci and cis. There were only two professors I had that ever even seemed to lean one way or the other, one a staunchly conservative guy in his early 60s who taught accounting, and an a hippie tree-hugger 60's woman who taught some business related class (I don't really remember it very well). Strangely enough they are/were close friends.

I like what Jefferson said about such situations, "I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend."

 

[The Commish]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:

3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

I think tithing is a personal thing. He doesn't have anything to worry about. It's on her to figure out how to give 10% of her allowance. Glad we resolved the concern

 

[dgreen]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:

3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

Tim doesn't strike me as the type of person who would jump to such grand conclusions based on something he doesn't know much about.

That's not really a grand conclusion. If there is no God, and there's an organization demanding that you give 10% of everything you make to God, it's a con game. Maybe the preacher's an unwitting pawn, but it's still a con.

That's what I'm referring to as the grand conclusion. Nobody has any idea right now if they are demanding anything from her, or anyone else in the congregation.

 

[Henry Ford]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:

3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

I think tithing is a personal thing. He doesn't have anything to worry about. It's on her to figure out how to give 10% of her allowance. Glad we resolved the concern

If a bully was demanding that your child give 10% of everything he or she makes for the rest of his or her life, would you step in and help?

 

[The Commish]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:

3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

Tim doesn't strike me as the type of person who would jump to such grand conclusions based on something he doesn't know much about.

That's not really a grand conclusion. If there is no God, and there's an organization demanding that you give 10% of everything you make to God, it's a con game. Maybe the preacher's an unwitting pawn, but it's still a con.

This is a con game to Christians in general. Never been in a church that does this and if I did go to one, it'd be just that once

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

The government?! Oh wait, they take more than 10%.

You and Andy should start a bowling league or something.

Maybe it would have been better had I explicitly said "Similar to" instead of what you think I implied as "Same as".I'm surprised you don't think there's an abundance of "indoctrination" or whatever term you prefer, happening on college campuses.

 

[Henry Ford]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:

3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

Tim doesn't strike me as the type of person who would jump to such grand conclusions based on something he doesn't know much about.

That's not really a grand conclusion. If there is no God, and there's an organization demanding that you give 10% of everything you make to God, it's a con game. Maybe the preacher's an unwitting pawn, but it's still a con.

That's what I'm referring to as the grand conclusion. Nobody has any idea right now if they are demanding anything from her, or anyone else in the congregation.

Well, sure, but that's not a conclusion in my #3. It's a concern. And it's a legitimate concern.

 

[Henry Ford]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

The government?! Oh wait, they take more than 10%.

You and Andy should start a bowling league or something.

Maybe it would have been better had I explicitly said "Similar to" instead of what you think I implied as "Same as".I'm surprised you don't think there's an abundance of "indoctrination" or whatever term you prefer, happening on college campuses.

For someone who thinks I misinterpreted something he said, you sure do want to put a lot of words in my mouth.

 

[dgreen]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:

3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

Tim doesn't strike me as the type of person who would jump to such grand conclusions based on something he doesn't know much about.

That's not really a grand conclusion. If there is no God, and there's an organization demanding that you give 10% of everything you make to God, it's a con game. Maybe the preacher's an unwitting pawn, but it's still a con.

That's what I'm referring to as the grand conclusion. Nobody has any idea right now if they are demanding anything from her, or anyone else in the congregation.

Well, sure, but that's not a conclusion in my #3. It's a concern. And it's a legitimate concern.

In what way is it a legitimate concern? What do you mean by "demand" and how often do you think that happens?

 

[timschochet]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I already think of my daughter as a fine person. I also believe that religion can, for some people, be a very positive element in their lives. The actual existence of God is irrelevant to that fact, so I don't accept your premise.

 

[Willie Neslon]

I think it will be a good thing. You're a fan of unending, non-stop debate. Now you have someone right in your immediate family to discuss a topic that will give you a lifetime of monotonous conversation. You're going to fall asleep hoarse every night.

 

[The Commish]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

If your kid needs religion to be a better person you ####ing failed as a parent.

no one said anything about "being a better person" but I agree 100%. If you're relying on religion to do that, you have problems.

 

[dgreen]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I already think of my daughter as a fine person. I also believe that religion can, for some people, be a very positive element in their lives. The actual existence of God is irrelevant to that fact, so I don't accept your premise.

So what is the problem (or problems)? You mentioned that she might try to convert you. Anything else? What else are you concerned about?

 

[Amused to Death]

I'd only be concerned if she started arguing with her teachers over evolution or the age of the universe.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

The government?! Oh wait, they take more than 10%.

You and Andy should start a bowling league or something.

Maybe it would have been better had I explicitly said "Similar to" instead of what you think I implied as "Same as".I'm surprised you don't think there's an abundance of "indoctrination" or whatever term you prefer, happening on college campuses.

For someone who thinks I misinterpreted something he said, you sure do want to put a lot of words in my mouth.

Okay, what you SEEM to have thought I said.Holy crap. :exasperated:

 

[timschochet]

Ok I'm Christian just so you know. In your second paragraph you said they are free to believe. Yet now when they do, your thinking about squashing it. Let it run its course. Most Christians are good people believe it or not. Heck she may even convert you. Yes, she will probably worry you aren't going to heaven but that shouldn't bother you as you don't believe in heaven.

I'm divorced and Atheist. My ex-wife found religion after we split and is a very devout Baptist now.

My daughter (11.5) is very upset that we're not going to be in heaven together when we eventually die. When I said "If I live my life well and I am a good person, it shouldn't matter. If I'm wrong and there is a heaven, why wouldn't I get in there anyway?" and she came back the following day and said "My Mom said that you can't get into heaven until you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior."

That whole conversation bothers me on many different levels, even if I don't believe in heaven.

Would you mind expanding on this? I'm genuinely interested.

This is one of the reasons I hesitated before even bringing up this topic. You'll have to believe me when I say that almost every non-Christian reading this understands exactly what Deepster is talking about and why he would be bothered- but it's difficult to explain to a religious Christian.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

If your kid needs religion to be a better person you ####ing failed as a parent.

no one said anything about "being a better person" but I agree 100%. If you're relying on religion to do that, you have problems.

What if they're problems that religion can solve?

 

[Henry Ford]

In what way is it a legitimate concern? What do you mean by "demand" and how often do you think that happens?

I haven't done a scientific study of church practices, but the most recent numbers I've seen are that around 40% of evangelical pastors believe that tithing is required by the Bible. Is that no longer the case?

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

If your kid needs religion to be a better person you ####ing failed as a parent.

no one said anything about "being a better person" but I agree 100%. If you're relying on religion to do that, you have problems.

What if they're problems that religion can solve?

Like what?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Boy, I really am a man without a country around here.

 

[Deepster]

Ok I'm Christian just so you know. In your second paragraph you said they are free to believe. Yet now when they do, your thinking about squashing it. Let it run its course. Most Christians are good people believe it or not. Heck she may even convert you. Yes, she will probably worry you aren't going to heaven but that shouldn't bother you as you don't believe in heaven.

I'm divorced and Atheist. My ex-wife found religion after we split and is a very devout Baptist now.

My daughter (11.5) is very upset that we're not going to be in heaven together when we eventually die. When I said "If I live my life well and I am a good person, it shouldn't matter. If I'm wrong and there is a heaven, why wouldn't I get in there anyway?" and she came back the following day and said "My Mom said that you can't get into heaven until you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior."

That whole conversation bothers me on many different levels, even if I don't believe in heaven.

Would you mind expanding on this? I'm genuinely interested.

I have taken the approach her entire life of saying "You should focus on being a good person and listen to what people have to say about their religions. Go to church with your Mom. Ask questions. Be open-minded and when you get older, you'll figure it out for yourself."

I feel like, her Mom is scaring her with a "fire and brimstone" approach that isn't a fair trip to lay on a 10-11 year old kid. She is basically saying "Oh well. Your father is going to burn in hell for eternity." and I don't think it's fair for her to expect my kid to wrap her young mind around that.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

If your kid needs religion to be a better person you ####ing failed as a parent.

no one said anything about "being a better person" but I agree 100%. If you're relying on religion to do that, you have problems.

What if they're problems that religion can solve?

Like what?

You honestly think that nothing good can come out of finding religion?

 

[Henry Ford]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

The government?! Oh wait, they take more than 10%.

You and Andy should start a bowling league or something.

Maybe it would have been better had I explicitly said "Similar to" instead of what you think I implied as "Same as".I'm surprised you don't think there's an abundance of "indoctrination" or whatever term you prefer, happening on college campuses.

For someone who thinks I misinterpreted something he said, you sure do want to put a lot of words in my mouth.

Okay, what you SEEM to have thought I said.Holy crap. :exasperated:

Wrong sentence, Mr. Holmes.

 

[timschochet]

How did we get on tithing? Lol.

 

[The Commish]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I already think of my daughter as a fine person. I also believe that religion can, for some people, be a very positive element in their lives. The actual existence of God is irrelevant to that fact, so I don't accept your premise.

I will go against the grain here and tell you to let her explore, but whatever you do, don't talk to her about it. Posts like this make it clear that you really don't understand the belief system. You will be as helpful as someone talking to her in a language she doesn't understand. That's not meant to be offensive, but I do think it's important that one understands the theology if they are going to try and rail against it. Otherwise you end up sounding like one of these idiots saying global warming can't exist because it's so freakin' cold outside. If you have family that is more in tune with the theology, perhaps you could have her speak with them?

 

[dgreen]

In what way is it a legitimate concern? What do you mean by "demand" and how often do you think that happens?

I haven't done a scientific study of church practices, but the most recent numbers I've seen are that around 40% of evangelical pastors believe that tithing is required by the Bible. Is that no longer the case?

No idea. Whatever the % is, do you then assume that if the pastor believes that it's required then he "demands" (whatever that means) his members tithe?

 

[Henry Ford]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

If your kid needs religion to be a better person you ####ing failed as a parent.

no one said anything about "being a better person" but I agree 100%. If you're relying on religion to do that, you have problems.

What if they're problems that religion can solve?

Like what?

You know, being confused by science. And having too much money.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

If your kid needs religion to be a better person you ####ing failed as a parent.

no one said anything about "being a better person" but I agree 100%. If you're relying on religion to do that, you have problems.

What if they're problems that religion can solve?

Like what?

You honestly think that nothing good can come out of finding religion?

I'd love to see the list of things that religion can solve but would be otherwise unsolvable.

 

[dgreen]

How did we get on tithing? Lol.

We'll hit abortion, gay marriage, evolution (wait, that's already been mentioned!), and eating shellfish in the next couple pages.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I think this was a plot point in The Good Wife actually

 

[Henry Ford]

In what way is it a legitimate concern? What do you mean by "demand" and how often do you think that happens?

I haven't done a scientific study of church practices, but the most recent numbers I've seen are that around 40% of evangelical pastors believe that tithing is required by the Bible. Is that no longer the case?

No idea. Whatever the % is, do you then assume that if the pastor believes that it's required then he "demands" (whatever that means) his members tithe?

Well, the spiritual leader of an organization (church) believes that tithing is required - in the same way that taking Jesus into your heart is required, in the same way that obeying the commandments is required.

Then he passes a gold bucket around the church, where you and your friends and neighbors in Christ can see who does and who doesn't follow the spiritual leader's teachings.

Yeah, I'll go with that being a demand.

 

[timschochet]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I already think of my daughter as a fine person. I also believe that religion can, for some people, be a very positive element in their lives. The actual existence of God is irrelevant to that fact, so I don't accept your premise.

I will go against the grain here and tell you to let her explore, but whatever you do, don't talk to her about it. Posts like this make it clear that you really don't understand the belief system. You will be as helpful as someone talking to her in a language she doesn't understand. That's not meant to be offensive, but I do think it's important that one understands the theology if they are going to try and rail against it. Otherwise you end up sounding like one of these idiots saying global warming can't exist because it's so freakin' cold outside. If you have family that is more in tune with the theology, perhaps you could have her speak with them?

Wow. That's quite a leap even for you.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

If your kid needs religion to be a better person you ####ing failed as a parent.

no one said anything about "being a better person" but I agree 100%. If you're relying on religion to do that, you have problems.

What if they're problems that religion can solve?

Like what?

You know, being confused by science. And having too much money.

What to do on Sundays when the football season ends.

How to justify your hatreds and prejudices.

Keeping your wife in line.

 

[dgreen]

Ok I'm Christian just so you know. In your second paragraph you said they are free to believe. Yet now when they do, your thinking about squashing it. Let it run its course. Most Christians are good people believe it or not. Heck she may even convert you. Yes, she will probably worry you aren't going to heaven but that shouldn't bother you as you don't believe in heaven.

I'm divorced and Atheist. My ex-wife found religion after we split and is a very devout Baptist now.

My daughter (11.5) is very upset that we're not going to be in heaven together when we eventually die. When I said "If I live my life well and I am a good person, it shouldn't matter. If I'm wrong and there is a heaven, why wouldn't I get in there anyway?" and she came back the following day and said "My Mom said that you can't get into heaven until you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior."

That whole conversation bothers me on many different levels, even if I don't believe in heaven.

Would you mind expanding on this? I'm genuinely interested.

This is one of the reasons I hesitated before even bringing up this topic.You'll have to believe me when I say that almost every non-Christian reading this understands exactly what Deepster is talking about and why he would be bothered- but it's difficult to explain to a religious Christian.

Interestingly, Christians sometimes have a very difficult time explaining things to non-Christians, so I understand what you mean.

 

[bcdjr1]

Not sure I see the problem here. One of two things is going to happen:

1. There is no God and she'll lose interest (you have no interest).

2. There is a God and you'll see a remarkable change in her heart and wonder if there isn't something to this God thing.

Either way, your child is going to be fine. Right?

I think he's concerned about:

3. There is no God, but his daughter gets taken in by an organization full of charlatans who demand 10% of her take-home pay for the rest of her life.

The government?! Oh wait, they take more than 10%.

You and Andy should start a bowling league or something.

Charlatan - A charlatan is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretense or deception.

You can't tell me that doesn't describe politicians. Maybe not all of what they do, but a good portion of it. And the IRS demands more than 10% of my take home pay, or they say they'll have me arrested and thrown in prison, and it doesn't seem likely they will stop doing so for the rest of my life.

It was mostly a joke to illustrate that your fear #3 is already true, so it's a bit late to worry about it because the daughter's going to church.