Bloom 100: 1-50 (2 Viewers)

[Sigmund Bloom]

Bloom.....I know you mentioned Jacquizz Rodgers amoungst the Bloom 100 for this year? Is he worth a late round pick right around where you have Polk rated or would you have Polk rated well ahead of him?

Not knowing Polk's destination, I would prefer Rodgers. If Polk lands somewhere that will ask him to be in a timeshare like NE, then below Rodgers. In a plum future spot like Denver, maybe ahead of Rodgers. I'm pretty high on Rodgers though.

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

Bloom.....I know you mentioned Jacquizz Rodgers amoungst the Bloom 100 for this year? Is he worth a late round pick right around where you have Polk rated or would you have Polk rated well ahead of him?

Not knowing Polk's destination, I would prefer Rodgers. If Polk lands somewhere that will ask him to be in a timeshare like NE, then below Rodgers. In a plum future spot like Denver, maybe ahead of Rodgers. I'm pretty high on Rodgers though.

Yes, so am I and after I heard your show this past week I decided to offer up the #13 pick in our rookie draft for Quizz. Got him! We can only hope now! Thanks Bloom!

 

[jurb26]

seeing as the team that drafts him will be thoroughly familiar with his abilities and have a plan for they plan on using him (likely in his natural slot role), I would put the chances of Wylie being in a situation that is at least conducive to fantasy success as somewhat strong. The Lions WR coach ran the drills at his pro day. That qualifies as a good spot imo.

We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose. Det had a historic season last year passing the ball and also had a better player (my opinion of course) in Titus Young playing that role. Young still only amassed 48/600/6. That is a respectable season, no doubt. Especially when you consider he was a rookie. It isn't fantasy respectable though.

 

[Faust]

So when are you publishing 51-100?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

So when are you publishing 51-100?

hopefully by next monday.

 

[Faust]

So when are you publishing 51-100?

hopefully by next monday.

Excellent! Looking forward to seeing where you have Nick Toon, Marvin McNutt, Jeff Fuller, Chris Owusu, Tommy Streeter, and Dwight Jones ranked as well as a few others!

 

[Holy Schneikes]

seeing as the team that drafts him will be thoroughly familiar with his abilities and have a plan for they plan on using him (likely in his natural slot role), I would put the chances of Wylie being in a situation that is at least conducive to fantasy success as somewhat strong. The Lions WR coach ran the drills at his pro day. That qualifies as a good spot imo.

We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose. Det had a historic season last year passing the ball and also had a better player (my opinion of course) in Titus Young playing that role. Young still only amassed 48/600/6. That is a respectable season, no doubt. Especially when you consider he was a rookie. It isn't fantasy respectable though.

Agreed. If you really predict a guy will be "full time" slot receiver with no outside production, it's hard to rank him too high.Maybe the Giant's success will reinvigorate the run and shoot and we will see more Cruz-type guys, but that's tough to bet on or plan for. And outside of Cruz and Welker that I can think of, you just don't see many great fantasy receivers coming from slot specialists. Looking back at the top 40 or so from last year, it's virtually all outside guys (and a couple of TEs, some of which ironically are often in the slot, but are obviously different animals).

 

[Faust]

seeing as the team that drafts him will be thoroughly familiar with his abilities and have a plan for they plan on using him (likely in his natural slot role), I would put the chances of Wylie being in a situation that is at least conducive to fantasy success as somewhat strong. The Lions WR coach ran the drills at his pro day. That qualifies as a good spot imo.

We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose. Det had a historic season last year passing the ball and also had a better player (my opinion of course) in Titus Young playing that role. Young still only amassed 48/600/6. That is a respectable season, no doubt. Especially when you consider he was a rookie. It isn't fantasy respectable though.

Agreed. If you really predict a guy will be "full time" slot receiver with no outside production, it's hard to rank him too high.Maybe the Giant's success will reinvigorate the run and shoot and we will see more Cruz-type guys, but that's tough to bet on or plan for. And outside of Cruz and Welker that I can think of, you just don't see many great fantasy receivers coming from slot specialists. Looking back at the top 40 or so from last year, it's virtually all outside guys (and a couple of TEs, some of which ironically are often in the slot, but are obviously different animals).

Marques Colston plays almost exclusively in the slot according to Greg Cosell. I didn't think of him as a "slot receiver" to be honest.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

seeing as the team that drafts him will be thoroughly familiar with his abilities and have a plan for they plan on using him (likely in his natural slot role), I would put the chances of Wylie being in a situation that is at least conducive to fantasy success as somewhat strong. The Lions WR coach ran the drills at his pro day. That qualifies as a good spot imo.

We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose. Det had a historic season last year passing the ball and also had a better player (my opinion of course) in Titus Young playing that role. Young still only amassed 48/600/6. That is a respectable season, no doubt. Especially when you consider he was a rookie. It isn't fantasy respectable though.

Agreed. If you really predict a guy will be "full time" slot receiver with no outside production, it's hard to rank him too high.Maybe the Giant's success will reinvigorate the run and shoot and we will see more Cruz-type guys, but that's tough to bet on or plan for. And outside of Cruz and Welker that I can think of, you just don't see many great fantasy receivers coming from slot specialists. Looking back at the top 40 or so from last year, it's virtually all outside guys (and a couple of TEs, some of which ironically are often in the slot, but are obviously different animals).

Marques Colston plays almost exclusively in the slot according to Greg Cosell. I didn't think of him as a "slot receiver" to be honest.

Yep, there's another one primarily inside, though his role is a little unusual from your standard "slot guy" I'd say, as Jimmy Graham plays the slot a lot too, and Colston is still out there. And quite frankly, while he is easily a valuable player to have, he's only been in the top 10 fantasy receivers once in a six year career. A pretty high standard to be fair, but still.So far we have guys catching passes from three all-world QBs in passing schemes cattering specifically to their strengths. I'm not saying that CAN'T happen with more of the "slot types", I'm just saying the odds are against it, and all else equal I'd rather take a shot somewhere else.

 

[jurb26]

Yep, there's another one primarily inside, though his role is a little unusual from your standard "slot guy" I'd say, as Jimmy Graham plays the slot a lot too, and Colston is still out there. And quite frankly, while he is easily a valuable player to have, he's only been in the top 10 fantasy receivers once in a six year career. A pretty high standard to be fair, but still.So far we have guys catching passes from three all-world QBs in passing schemes cattering specifically to their strengths. I'm not saying that CAN'T happen with more of the "slot types", I'm just saying the odds are against it, and all else equal I'd rather take a shot somewhere else.

This is pretty much my feeling on it as well. I completely agree that guys can be fantasy effective out of the slot. We've seen it happen and it is happening at a higher rate now than ever before. None the less, we are talking about a 4th round college prospect here who may or may not even have the goods to translate his game to the NFL. On top of that, we have no idea what team, scheme or surrounding cast he will be playing in. The one thing I'm noticing about these successful slot guys is that they all seem to have elite QBs(Brady, Brees and Manning) and offensive minded coaches aiding them in generating their success. This is a very unlikely scenario to have happen, let alone bet on happening. That isn't to say it couldn't happen. I just wouldn't count on it.

 

[Hoosier16]

L. Miller is way too low. Placing him behind Polk is just silly IMO. He is a vastly more talented RB. I can't imagine any situation what so ever that would make me even for a second want to draft Polk over Miller.M. Barron should be in the top 50. He is a sure starter in the NFL for years and there are at least 20 guys on this list who will end up out of the NFL or barried on a teams depth chart in 2 years. I'd easly take the top S ahead of several of the fringe talents to even enter the draft at positions like RB and WR.

I think Miller is more one-dimensional and since we are talking PPR here, Polk's top-notch receiving ability comes into play.

I think Polk is overlooked and underrated in the Pool. There aren't many guys who will lower their shoulder and run over a guy up the middle on one play and split out as a WR on the next. I think he's a great fit under Gruden in Cincy.

 

[theprince]

Btw

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

L. Miller is way too low. Placing him behind Polk is just silly IMO. He is a vastly more talented RB. I can't imagine any situation what so ever that would make me even for a second want to draft Polk over Miller.M. Barron should be in the top 50. He is a sure starter in the NFL for years and there are at least 20 guys on this list who will end up out of the NFL or barried on a teams depth chart in 2 years. I'd easly take the top S ahead of several of the fringe talents to even enter the draft at positions like RB and WR.

I think Miller is more one-dimensional and since we are talking PPR here, Polk's top-notch receiving ability comes into play.

I think Polk is overlooked and underrated in the Pool. There aren't many guys who will lower their shoulder and run over a guy up the middle on one play and split out as a WR on the next. I think he's a great fit under Gruden in Cincy.

Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane IMO. Polk has poor vision, runs very tentative and doesn't have the acceleration to hit the hole if/when one opens up. I compare him to Anthony Thomas RB Chicago early 2000's.

 

[Buck Stop]

Bloom is there any concern that a large part of Wright's success had to do with how accurate RG3 was, and without an elite QB, will he look more average?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Bloom is there any concern that a large part of Wright's success had to do with how accurate RG3 was, and without an elite QB, will he look more average?

It could work the other way around as well. Did Wright and Williams make RGIII look good?

 

[mbuehner]

seeing as the team that drafts him will be thoroughly familiar with his abilities and have a plan for they plan on using him (likely in his natural slot role), I would put the chances of Wylie being in a situation that is at least conducive to fantasy success as somewhat strong. The Lions WR coach ran the drills at his pro day. That qualifies as a good spot imo.

We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose. Det had a historic season last year passing the ball and also had a better player (my opinion of course) in Titus Young playing that role. Young still only amassed 48/600/6. That is a respectable season, no doubt. Especially when you consider he was a rookie. It isn't fantasy respectable though.

Agreed. If you really predict a guy will be "full time" slot receiver with no outside production, it's hard to rank him too high.Maybe the Giant's success will reinvigorate the run and shoot and we will see more Cruz-type guys, but that's tough to bet on or plan for. And outside of Cruz and Welker that I can think of, you just don't see many great fantasy receivers coming from slot specialists. Looking back at the top 40 or so from last year, it's virtually all outside guys (and a couple of TEs, some of which ironically are often in the slot, but are obviously different animals).

Marques Colston plays almost exclusively in the slot according to Greg Cosell. I didn't think of him as a "slot receiver" to be honest.

Yep, there's another one primarily inside, though his role is a little unusual from your standard "slot guy" I'd say, as Jimmy Graham plays the slot a lot too, and Colston is still out there. And quite frankly, while he is easily a valuable player to have, he's only been in the top 10 fantasy receivers once in a six year career. A pretty high standard to be fair, but still.So far we have guys catching passes from three all-world QBs in passing schemes cattering specifically to their strengths. I'm not saying that CAN'T happen with more of the "slot types", I'm just saying the odds are against it, and all else equal I'd rather take a shot somewhere else.

Not to mention Lance Moore. Does everybody play in the slot in NO? Is that physically possible?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Bloom is there any concern that a large part of Wright's success had to do with how accurate RG3 was, and without an elite QB, will he look more average?

none from me.however if folks do subscribe to that theory, they should be buying pierre garcon, stat.

 

[Hoosier16]

L. Miller is way too low. Placing him behind Polk is just silly IMO. He is a vastly more talented RB. I can't imagine any situation what so ever that would make me even for a second want to draft Polk over Miller.M. Barron should be in the top 50. He is a sure starter in the NFL for years and there are at least 20 guys on this list who will end up out of the NFL or barried on a teams depth chart in 2 years. I'd easly take the top S ahead of several of the fringe talents to even enter the draft at positions like RB and WR.

I think Miller is more one-dimensional and since we are talking PPR here, Polk's top-notch receiving ability comes into play.

I think Polk is overlooked and underrated in the Pool. There aren't many guys who will lower their shoulder and run over a guy up the middle on one play and split out as a WR on the next. I think he's a great fit under Gruden in Cincy.

Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane IMO. Polk has poor vision, runs very tentative and doesn't have the acceleration to hit the hole if/when one opens up. I compare him to Anthony Thomas RB Chicago early 2000's.

I can't believe you're talking about the same guy.

 

[BigTex]

Hill intrigues me, the first name that comes to mind is Terrell Owens. Here's the highlight reel:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kQWb4NXvJcWhat impresses me most is the pure physicality, running people over, stiffarms, body position going up for the ball. And you just cant teach what you see at 1:10 in, that range makes my mouth water. He's obviously dangerous on the go route, but he's gonna be a beast in the red zone, and is also a danger to blow up a bubble screen at any moment. Definitely unpolished but the things he is missing are things that potentially can be learned... but better yet they aren't necessary to still be an impact player from day one. If he's the kind of guy that flourishes on the biggest stages (like most of the great ones do), he could be another TO in his prime. Of course he could also end up on the scrap heap. That being said, for where you could get him he could be an absolute grandslam- I think the other WRs in this draft just dont have that kind of ceiling (although there are some very quality guys), and granted a lot of them dont have as low a floor. I like to gamble on the most bang for your buck with rookie WR- I can usually find the more pedestrian guys elsewhere. You don't need to hit on Dwayne Bowe or Hakeem Nicks or Mike Wallace too often to do a huge amount of damage, and after the first one or two or three top WRs the cost drop off is usually substantial.

That's his entire highlight film from college. He still looks stiff, not much quick twitch, not physical enough, and he stiff armed a D3 player. His best season is 28 receptions in college. Blackmon, Sanu, Criner, Wright, Floyd, etc have had almost every season in college above that total.His short shuttle is 4.48, which was the worst at the combine by .12!!! This means his short area quickness, in and out of routes isn't good.

And he catches with his body waaaaaaayyy tooo much!!!

 

[Buck Stop]

Bloom is there any concern that a large part of Wright's success had to do with how accurate RG3 was, and without an elite QB, will he look more average?

none from me.however if folks do subscribe to that theory, they should be buying pierre garcon, stat.

Thanks Bloom! (I was hoping that was what you were going to say)

 

[Skeletore Eh]

L. Miller is way too low. Placing him behind Polk is just silly IMO. He is a vastly more talented RB. I can't imagine any situation what so ever that would make me even for a second want to draft Polk over Miller.M. Barron should be in the top 50. He is a sure starter in the NFL for years and there are at least 20 guys on this list who will end up out of the NFL or barried on a teams depth chart in 2 years. I'd easly take the top S ahead of several of the fringe talents to even enter the draft at positions like RB and WR.

I think Miller is more one-dimensional and since we are talking PPR here, Polk's top-notch receiving ability comes into play.

I think Polk is overlooked and underrated in the Pool. There aren't many guys who will lower their shoulder and run over a guy up the middle on one play and split out as a WR on the next. I think he's a great fit under Gruden in Cincy.

Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane IMO. Polk has poor vision, runs very tentative and doesn't have the acceleration to hit the hole if/when one opens up. I compare him to Anthony Thomas RB Chicago early 2000's.

Most consider polks vision to be one of his strengths.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

L. Miller is way too low. Placing him behind Polk is just silly IMO. He is a vastly more talented RB. I can't imagine any situation what so ever that would make me even for a second want to draft Polk over Miller.M. Barron should be in the top 50. He is a sure starter in the NFL for years and there are at least 20 guys on this list who will end up out of the NFL or barried on a teams depth chart in 2 years. I'd easly take the top S ahead of several of the fringe talents to even enter the draft at positions like RB and WR.

I think Miller is more one-dimensional and since we are talking PPR here, Polk's top-notch receiving ability comes into play.

I think Polk is overlooked and underrated in the Pool. There aren't many guys who will lower their shoulder and run over a guy up the middle on one play and split out as a WR on the next. I think he's a great fit under Gruden in Cincy.

Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane IMO. Polk has poor vision, runs very tentative and doesn't have the acceleration to hit the hole if/when one opens up. I compare him to Anthony Thomas RB Chicago early 2000's.

Most consider polks vision to be one of his strengths.

I watched 5 of his games and didn't find it to be. But everyone has their own opinion.

 

[POLITE ALL CAPS GUY]

THANKS FOR THE LIST!!! LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SECOND HALF.

 

[Rodeojones]

THANKS FOR THE LIST!!! LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SECOND HALF.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

I'm not even going to pretend to to level headed, but Stephen Hill is going to pass all the WRs sooner, not later.

BTW, who do you see as his NFL comp?

Thanks!

I'm just curious. Why are you so high on a guy that has had such limited opportunities? That's pretty big praise for a guy that doesn't have much of a track record, especially compared to guys like Blackmon and Floyd.

I've got a really bad man crush here. Not a big fan of Blackmon, he's (to me) a WR2 with a slim chance of WR1 numbers. I like Floyd (a lot). I think K Wright does not have the skill set to dominate, more like a contributor. A Jefferey (to me at least) does not have a high ceiling. Hill has something that you can't teach and that is size & speed.

Mike Wallace had the same effect on me when he came into the league.

GT did not really use Hill that often, still baffled by it.

Thing that scares me is that many more informed than me have said he can't catch very well in traffic (i.e. not the combine) and doesn't play as fast as he times.

I keep hearing people say this, but I'm not seeing any substance behind the opinion. Hill is very much an enigma if you ask me. He could be a Pro Bowler or could be a 4th stringer in a few years.

4th stringer IMO. Limited route tree, questionable hands, doesn't play as physical as he should, not quick in and out of breaks, questionable deep ball skills. One trick pony...go deep.

NFP: Matt Bowen on Stephen Hill4. Stephen Hill, WR, Georgia Tech: The WR is raw—real raw. But you can’t coach vertical speed (4.36 40) and size (6-4). I don’t care about rookie WRs and their route running ability on tape—because they all must improve if they want to catch the ball on Sundays. Hill needs to be taught the route tree from the release, through the stem and the break (12-15 yards outside of the 3-step game). The offense he played in at Georgia Tech (triple option) won’t prepare him for NFL competition in the passing game, but there is so much ability here that coaching him would be rewarding every day.

 

[VA703]

very nice thank you

 

[Dr. Octopus]

THANKS FOR THE LIST!!! LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SECOND HALF.

I can't see this schtick ever getting old.

 

[Frank Costanza's Lawyer]

THANKS FOR THE LIST!!! LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SECOND HALF.

Worst. Alias. Ever.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I'm not even going to pretend to to level headed, but Stephen Hill is going to pass all the WRs sooner, not later.

BTW, who do you see as his NFL comp?

Thanks!

I'm just curious. Why are you so high on a guy that has had such limited opportunities? That's pretty big praise for a guy that doesn't have much of a track record, especially compared to guys like Blackmon and Floyd.

I've got a really bad man crush here. Not a big fan of Blackmon, he's (to me) a WR2 with a slim chance of WR1 numbers. I like Floyd (a lot). I think K Wright does not have the skill set to dominate, more like a contributor. A Jefferey (to me at least) does not have a high ceiling. Hill has something that you can't teach and that is size & speed.

Mike Wallace had the same effect on me when he came into the league.

GT did not really use Hill that often, still baffled by it.

Thing that scares me is that many more informed than me have said he can't catch very well in traffic (i.e. not the combine) and doesn't play as fast as he times.

I keep hearing people say this, but I'm not seeing any substance behind the opinion. Hill is very much an enigma if you ask me. He could be a Pro Bowler or could be a 4th stringer in a few years.

4th stringer IMO. Limited route tree, questionable hands, doesn't play as physical as he should, not quick in and out of breaks, questionable deep ball skills. One trick pony...go deep.

NFP: Matt Bowen on Stephen Hill4. Stephen Hill, WR, Georgia Tech: The WR is raw—real raw. But you can’t coach vertical speed (4.36 40) and size (6-4). I don’t care about rookie WRs and their route running ability on tape—because they all must improve if they want to catch the ball on Sundays. Hill needs to be taught the route tree from the release, through the stem and the break (12-15 yards outside of the 3-step game). The offense he played in at Georgia Tech (triple option) won’t prepare him for NFL competition in the passing game, but there is so much ability here that coaching him would be rewarding every day.

I like Matt Bowen and listen to him on the radio often. However, every WR could develop and improve on all their deficiencies in the NFL. What if Alshon Jeffrey increases his work ethic/quickness. What if Brian Quick/Dwight Jones/Jeff Fuller/Marvin McNutt display more consistent hands? What if Chris Givens/TY Hilton finally are exposed to a full route tree?I'm not in the what if business, i'm in the what's realistic business. Can miracles happen? Yes. But most players are what they are at this point. They can improve a little here and there, but not a ton. Stephen Hill has to improve not only route running, hands, aggressiveness...but he also had the slowest short shuttle time at the combine by .12. That's a large margin and it's a direct reflection of burst in/out of breaks...aka separation from defenders.

Matt Jones had a ton of potential too, but it never happened and I see the same thing here.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I'm not even going to pretend to to level headed, but Stephen Hill is going to pass all the WRs sooner, not later.

BTW, who do you see as his NFL comp?

Thanks!

I'm just curious. Why are you so high on a guy that has had such limited opportunities? That's pretty big praise for a guy that doesn't have much of a track record, especially compared to guys like Blackmon and Floyd.

I've got a really bad man crush here. Not a big fan of Blackmon, he's (to me) a WR2 with a slim chance of WR1 numbers. I like Floyd (a lot). I think K Wright does not have the skill set to dominate, more like a contributor. A Jefferey (to me at least) does not have a high ceiling. Hill has something that you can't teach and that is size & speed.

Mike Wallace had the same effect on me when he came into the league.

GT did not really use Hill that often, still baffled by it.

Thing that scares me is that many more informed than me have said he can't catch very well in traffic (i.e. not the combine) and doesn't play as fast as he times.

I keep hearing people say this, but I'm not seeing any substance behind the opinion. Hill is very much an enigma if you ask me. He could be a Pro Bowler or could be a 4th stringer in a few years.

4th stringer IMO. Limited route tree, questionable hands, doesn't play as physical as he should, not quick in and out of breaks, questionable deep ball skills. One trick pony...go deep.

NFP: Matt Bowen on Stephen Hill4. Stephen Hill, WR, Georgia Tech: The WR is rawreal raw. But you cant coach vertical speed (4.36 40) and size (6-4). I dont care about rookie WRs and their route running ability on tapebecause they all must improve if they want to catch the ball on Sundays. Hill needs to be taught the route tree from the release, through the stem and the break (12-15 yards outside of the 3-step game). The offense he played in at Georgia Tech (triple option) wont prepare him for NFL competition in the passing game, but there is so much ability here that coaching him would be rewarding every day.

I like Matt Bowen and listen to him on the radio often. However, every WR could develop and improve on all their deficiencies in the NFL. What if Alshon Jeffrey increases his work ethic/quickness. What if Brian Quick/Dwight Jones/Jeff Fuller/Marvin McNutt display more consistent hands? What if Chris Givens/TY Hilton finally are exposed to a full route tree?I'm not in the what if business, i'm in the what's realistic business. Can miracles happen? Yes. But most players are what they are at this point. They can improve a little here and there, but not a ton. Stephen Hill has to improve not only route running, hands, aggressiveness...but he also had the slowest short shuttle time at the combine by .12. That's a large margin and it's a direct reflection of burst in/out of breaks...aka separation from defenders.

Matt Jones had a ton of potential too, but it never happened and I see the same thing here.

There's a difference between learning a new skill set (like improving hands or speed) and being taught and picking up new techniques. If his college system didn't require him to do more than run fly patterns, that doesn't mean he's incapable of running an out or curl - it just means he was never asked to. I don't think it would take a miracle for a WR to learn something like how to run a couple of different routes - seems like a week of practice would cover the basics and then all it would take is refining and improving on those techniques over the course of the offseason and during his rookie season.As far as being able to seperate in small areas with "quicks" is that as important when your physical size allows you to create a bigger target area and/or shield off defenders with his body?

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I'm just curious. Why are you so high on a guy that has had such limited opportunities? That's pretty big praise for a guy that doesn't have much of a track record, especially compared to guys like Blackmon and Floyd.

I've got a really bad man crush here. Not a big fan of Blackmon, he's (to me) a WR2 with a slim chance of WR1 numbers. I like Floyd (a lot). I think K Wright does not have the skill set to dominate, more like a contributor. A Jefferey (to me at least) does not have a high ceiling. Hill has something that you can't teach and that is size & speed.

Mike Wallace had the same effect on me when he came into the league.

GT did not really use Hill that often, still baffled by it.

Thing that scares me is that many more informed than me have said he can't catch very well in traffic (i.e. not the combine) and doesn't play as fast as he times.

I keep hearing people say this, but I'm not seeing any substance behind the opinion. Hill is very much an enigma if you ask me. He could be a Pro Bowler or could be a 4th stringer in a few years.

4th stringer IMO. Limited route tree, questionable hands, doesn't play as physical as he should, not quick in and out of breaks, questionable deep ball skills. One trick pony...go deep.

NFP: Matt Bowen on Stephen Hill4. Stephen Hill, WR, Georgia Tech: The WR is raw—real raw. But you can’t coach vertical speed (4.36 40) and size (6-4). I don’t care about rookie WRs and their route running ability on tape—because they all must improve if they want to catch the ball on Sundays. Hill needs to be taught the route tree from the release, through the stem and the break (12-15 yards outside of the 3-step game). The offense he played in at Georgia Tech (triple option) won’t prepare him for NFL competition in the passing game, but there is so much ability here that coaching him would be rewarding every day.

I like Matt Bowen and listen to him on the radio often. However, every WR could develop and improve on all their deficiencies in the NFL. What if Alshon Jeffrey increases his work ethic/quickness. What if Brian Quick/Dwight Jones/Jeff Fuller/Marvin McNutt display more consistent hands? What if Chris Givens/TY Hilton finally are exposed to a full route tree?I'm not in the what if business, i'm in the what's realistic business. Can miracles happen? Yes. But most players are what they are at this point. They can improve a little here and there, but not a ton. Stephen Hill has to improve not only route running, hands, aggressiveness...but he also had the slowest short shuttle time at the combine by .12. That's a large margin and it's a direct reflection of burst in/out of breaks...aka separation from defenders.

Matt Jones had a ton of potential too, but it never happened and I see the same thing here.

There's a difference between learning a new skill set (like improving hands or speed) and being taught and picking up new techniques. If his college system didn't require him to do more than run fly patterns, that doesn't mean he's incapable of running an out or curl - it just means he was never asked to. I don't think it would take a miracle for a WR to learn something like how to run a couple of different routes - seems like a week of practice would cover the basics and then all it would take is refining and improving on those techniques over the course of the offseason and during his rookie season.As far as being able to seperate in small areas with "quicks" is that as important when your physical size allows you to create a bigger target area and/or shield off defenders with his body?

I agree that learning a new skill set is different from being taught something new. However, I believe that him lacking in short area quickness and having to learn how to run routes is all in the same. It's a big issue with Stephen Hill. You stated that having a big physical frame for a bigger target is better to shield off defenders, which is true. But still a problem if they're draped on the WR...if it wasn't a problem then Alshon Jeffrey would be rated much higher.Lastly, Stephen Hill doesn't play physical(it's a mindset) and he doesn't have good hands(dropped lots of passes at GT).

 

[SpineDoc]

THANKS FOR THE LIST!!! LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SECOND HALF.

I can't see this schtick ever getting old.

AGREED!

 

[jurb26]

Lastly, Stephen Hill doesn't play physical(it's a mindset) and he doesn't have good hands(dropped lots of passes at GT).

I don't understand your point on Hill playing physically. I mean, what do you qualify as being physical in the 1st place? From what I have seen, he needs to be taught how to play physical and how to use his body like a real WR should. It may be a "mind set", but it's also a learned skill in how to use the proper technique to manipulate your physical abilities on the field. This seems like a silly point to bring up IMO.I've also yet to see the support for his poor hands. I've tried to find the proper film to gauge it, but I'm never left with enough information to make such concrete claims. I'm not sure how you, or anyone else can. I do know he looked fantastic in the positional drills at the combine. He was clearly the most natural looking catcher on the field that day. Easily more impressive than either of Blackmon or Floyd. Of course that day alone doesn't resolve doubt either. It does leave many objective folks like myself scratching our heads and wondering what the truth is about the guy. I'm continually told by some people he doesn't have good hands, I don't see nearly enough real game footage to support that and he looked ridiculously good catching the ball in the only scenario I have seen with any depth to it. The impression I'm left with in the game action I've seen is that he has good hands but lacks the proper technique to make catches easier on the field. He allowed many passes to be heavily contested by DBs because of his lack of knowledge on how to properly use his body to shield or position himself ideally for the catch. This caused far more contested passes and much more difficult catches than there needed to be. Basically, I see a raw WR with was making many of the opportunities for catches more difficult on himself rather than easier due to a lack of trained fundamentals. None of these issues are NFL death sentences. They are all coachable/fixable issues. It's just a matter of how capable of learning and how coachable he is IMO. This is admittedly a huge question mark. I think you are greatly blowing things out of proportion in order to make a point though. It's fine that you don't like him. Like I said, he very easily could be cut from his rookie team in 3 years IMO.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Lastly, Stephen Hill doesn't play physical(it's a mindset) and he doesn't have good hands(dropped lots of passes at GT).

I don't understand your point on Hill playing physically. I mean, what do you qualify as being physical in the 1st place? From what I have seen, he needs to be taught how to play physical and how to use his body like a real WR should. It may be a "mind set", but it's also a learned skill in how to use the proper technique to manipulate your physical abilities on the field. This seems like a silly point to bring up IMO.I've also yet to see the support for his poor hands. I've tried to find the proper film to gauge it, but I'm never left with enough information to make such concrete claims. I'm not sure how you, or anyone else can. I do know he looked fantastic in the positional drills at the combine. He was clearly the most natural looking catcher on the field that day. Easily more impressive than either of Blackmon or Floyd. Of course that day alone doesn't resolve doubt either. It does leave many objective folks like myself scratching our heads and wondering what the truth is about the guy. I'm continually told by some people he doesn't have good hands, I don't see nearly enough real game footage to support that and he looked ridiculously good catching the ball in the only scenario I have seen with any depth to it. The impression I'm left with in the game action I've seen is that he has good hands but lacks the proper technique to make catches easier on the field. He allowed many passes to be heavily contested by DBs because of his lack of knowledge on how to properly use his body to shield or position himself ideally for the catch. This caused far more contested passes and much more difficult catches than there needed to be. Basically, I see a raw WR with was making many of the opportunities for catches more difficult on himself rather than easier due to a lack of trained fundamentals. None of these issues are NFL death sentences. They are all coachable/fixable issues. It's just a matter of how capable of learning and how coachable he is IMO. This is admittedly a huge question mark. I think you are greatly blowing things out of proportion in order to make a point though. It's fine that you don't like him. Like I said, he very easily could be cut from his rookie team in 3 years IMO.

Good points and I like good discussion, rather than the i'm right/no i'm right that often creeps into the SP.I've seen the huge drops in live game action, I don't remember which games from this past season...but he was embarrassingly wide open and dropped the football right in the bread basket. You're correct in that the body positioning, playing physical, high pointing the football, mindset to go over/through a defender to get the ball, etc can be taught. Route running can be taught. Improved technique can be taught. But at the end of the day, we have to set some kind of a standard as to what a player has to accomplish before we go completely on the dreaded "potential" word. If that isn't the case than Usain Bolt is a perfect WR prospect at 6'5 200 and the fastest man in the world. The Bears drafted John Capel(made the olympics) and didn't do anything at WR. Much more to a WR than size/speed.I actually see Tommy Streeter as a very similar prospect to Stephen Hill.

 

[jurb26]

I actually see Tommy Streeter as a very similar prospect to Stephen Hill.

That's a good comparison. I agree Streeter and Hill have a lot of similarities.

 

[cstu]

Lastly, Stephen Hill doesn't play physical(it's a mindset) and he doesn't have good hands(dropped lots of passes at GT).

I don't understand your point on Hill playing physically. I mean, what do you qualify as being physical in the 1st place? From what I have seen, he needs to be taught how to play physical and how to use his body like a real WR should. It may be a "mind set", but it's also a learned skill in how to use the proper technique to manipulate your physical abilities on the field. This seems like a silly point to bring up IMO.I've also yet to see the support for his poor hands. I've tried to find the proper film to gauge it, but I'm never left with enough information to make such concrete claims. I'm not sure how you, or anyone else can. I do know he looked fantastic in the positional drills at the combine. He was clearly the most natural looking catcher on the field that day. Easily more impressive than either of Blackmon or Floyd. Of course that day alone doesn't resolve doubt either. It does leave many objective folks like myself scratching our heads and wondering what the truth is about the guy. I'm continually told by some people he doesn't have good hands, I don't see nearly enough real game footage to support that and he looked ridiculously good catching the ball in the only scenario I have seen with any depth to it. The impression I'm left with in the game action I've seen is that he has good hands but lacks the proper technique to make catches easier on the field. He allowed many passes to be heavily contested by DBs because of his lack of knowledge on how to properly use his body to shield or position himself ideally for the catch. This caused far more contested passes and much more difficult catches than there needed to be. Basically, I see a raw WR with was making many of the opportunities for catches more difficult on himself rather than easier due to a lack of trained fundamentals. None of these issues are NFL death sentences. They are all coachable/fixable issues. It's just a matter of how capable of learning and how coachable he is IMO. This is admittedly a huge question mark. I think you are greatly blowing things out of proportion in order to make a point though. It's fine that you don't like him. Like I said, he very easily could be cut from his rookie team in 3 years IMO.

Speed + hands + work ethic is a deadly combination for a WR. The work ethic is a concern for me after he was academically ineligible for the 2010 bowl game, but if he has improved in that area I like his chances.I definitely like him better than Jeffery, who I see as a guy with hands but not speed or work ethic.

 

[cstu]

THANKS FOR THE LIST!!! LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SECOND HALF.

I can't see this schtick ever getting old.

Much better than Rude Strikethrough Guy: "About time, hurry up with the next 50!".

 

[Dragon1952]

THANKS FOR THE LIST!!! LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SECOND HALF.

I can't see this schtick ever getting old.

Much better than Rude Strikethrough Guy: "About time, hurry up with the next 50!".

 

[ummich10]

Question about Wylie. The Detroit WR coach ran his pro day drills, so Detroit is being mentioned as having interest in Wylie. Detroit also drafted Titus Young last year, who is roughly the same size. What is it about Young that would make Detroit want to draft Wylie? How are their skill sets different, would they be used differently,etc?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Lastly, Stephen Hill doesn't play physical(it's a mindset) and he doesn't have good hands(dropped lots of passes at GT).

I don't understand your point on Hill playing physically. I mean, what do you qualify as being physical in the 1st place? From what I have seen, he needs to be taught how to play physical and how to use his body like a real WR should. It may be a "mind set", but it's also a learned skill in how to use the proper technique to manipulate your physical abilities on the field. This seems like a silly point to bring up IMO.I've also yet to see the support for his poor hands. I've tried to find the proper film to gauge it, but I'm never left with enough information to make such concrete claims. I'm not sure how you, or anyone else can. I do know he looked fantastic in the positional drills at the combine. He was clearly the most natural looking catcher on the field that day. Easily more impressive than either of Blackmon or Floyd. Of course that day alone doesn't resolve doubt either. It does leave many objective folks like myself scratching our heads and wondering what the truth is about the guy. I'm continually told by some people he doesn't have good hands, I don't see nearly enough real game footage to support that and he looked ridiculously good catching the ball in the only scenario I have seen with any depth to it. The impression I'm left with in the game action I've seen is that he has good hands but lacks the proper technique to make catches easier on the field. He allowed many passes to be heavily contested by DBs because of his lack of knowledge on how to properly use his body to shield or position himself ideally for the catch. This caused far more contested passes and much more difficult catches than there needed to be. Basically, I see a raw WR with was making many of the opportunities for catches more difficult on himself rather than easier due to a lack of trained fundamentals. None of these issues are NFL death sentences. They are all coachable/fixable issues. It's just a matter of how capable of learning and how coachable he is IMO. This is admittedly a huge question mark. I think you are greatly blowing things out of proportion in order to make a point though. It's fine that you don't like him. Like I said, he very easily could be cut from his rookie team in 3 years IMO.

Good points and I like good discussion, rather than the i'm right/no i'm right that often creeps into the SP.I've seen the huge drops in live game action, I don't remember which games from this past season...but he was embarrassingly wide open and dropped the football right in the bread basket. You're correct in that the body positioning, playing physical, high pointing the football, mindset to go over/through a defender to get the ball, etc can be taught. Route running can be taught. Improved technique can be taught. But at the end of the day, we have to set some kind of a standard as to what a player has to accomplish before we go completely on the dreaded "potential" word. If that isn't the case than Usain Bolt is a perfect WR prospect at 6'5 200 and the fastest man in the world. The Bears drafted John Capel(made the olympics) and didn't do anything at WR. Much more to a WR than size/speed.I actually see Tommy Streeter as a very similar prospect to Stephen Hill.

Here is some tape from the UNC game. The catch at :15 mark is the best of Hill. The drop at 2:30 is what you're talking about. It's inexcusable but he did tweak is hamstring on the play, or was smart enough to pretend to be hurt after dropping the wide open TD. There's some physical play, IMO, mixed in between those two plays as well.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6BhdO59RM0This is a pretty sweet catch against Clemson where the DB even got a little arm before the ball got there.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfALNRblfXk

 

[POLITE ALL CAPS GUY]

THANKS FOR THE LIST!!! LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SECOND HALF.

I can't see this schtick ever getting old.

Much better than Rude Strikethrough Guy: "About time, hurry up with the next 50!".

LOL ALL THE WAY AROUND! I WAS GOING FOR A SMILE, SO IF ME POSTING IN ALL CAPS AND BEING POLITE MAKES YOU LAUGH THEN I ACCOMPLISHED MY GOAL!

 

[MAC_32]

I actually see Tommy Streeter as a very similar prospect to Stephen Hill.

That's a good comparison. I agree Streeter and Hill have a lot of similarities.

Except Streeter seems as though he's appropriately priced.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

I actually see Tommy Streeter as a very similar prospect to Stephen Hill.

That's a good comparison. I agree Streeter and Hill have a lot of similarities.

Except Streeter seems as though he's appropriately priced.

 

[IndyHavoc]

Dang it if I can't remember his name (Roy ??) that the Colts drafted out of Ohio State about 5-6 years ago. Guy had all-world measureables, very little time on the field at tOSU. And turned into...a temporary stint on the practice squad. That's with the same WR coaching of guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, etc.

Please don't be that woman that constantly thinks she can change the guy into something he's not. I'm not saying it's impossible for Hill to become something great...but I will say I think it's very, very unlikely. And the cost of rostering him for 3 years isn't negligible.

ETA: Roy Hall, and actually I thought of another/better comparison (historically). Tyrone Callico. That's what I'm reminded of (not that I've looked at them side-by-side), just that mold of players. Height/Speed and very raw. Generally amount to a long-term investment with very little return.

 

[identikit]

Dang it if I can't remember his name (Roy ??) that the Colts drafted out of Ohio State about 5-6 years ago. Guy had all-world measureables, very little time on the field at tOSU. And turned into...a temporary stint on the practice squad. That's with the same WR coaching of guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, etc.Please don't be that woman that constantly thinks she can change the guy into something he's not. I'm not saying it's impossible for Hill to become something great...but I will say I think it's very, very unlikely. And the cost of rostering him for 3 years isn't negligible.

Roy Hall.Classic Tarzan/Jane player

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Dang it if I can't remember his name (Roy ??) that the Colts drafted out of Ohio State about 5-6 years ago. Guy had all-world measureables, very little time on the field at tOSU. And turned into...a temporary stint on the practice squad. That's with the same WR coaching of guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, etc.Please don't be that woman that constantly thinks she can change the guy into something he's not. I'm not saying it's impossible for Hill to become something great...but I will say I think it's very, very unlikely. And the cost of rostering him for 3 years isn't negligible.

The same things were being said about DeMaryius Thomas when he was coming out of Ga. Tech's offense.Don't be the internet guy that think he's an NFL scout either.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Dang it if I can't remember his name (Roy ??) that the Colts drafted out of Ohio State about 5-6 years ago. Guy had all-world measureables, very little time on the field at tOSU. And turned into...a temporary stint on the practice squad. That's with the same WR coaching of guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, etc.Please don't be that woman that constantly thinks she can change the guy into something he's not. I'm not saying it's impossible for Hill to become something great...but I will say I think it's very, very unlikely. And the cost of rostering him for 3 years isn't negligible.

The same things were being said about DeMaryius Thomas when he was coming out of Ga. Tech's offense.Don't be the internet guy that think he's an NFL scout either.

Demaryius Thomas 6-3 235 4.3607- 35 receptions 558 yards 3 TD08- 39 receptions 627 yards 3 TD09- 46 receptions 1154 yards 8 TDStephen Hill 6-4 210 4.309- 6 receptions 137 yards 1 TD10- 15 receptions 291 yards 3 TD11- 28 receptions 820 yards 5 TDThomas was a much more accomplished(even though he was raw) WR coming out of Georgia Tech than Hill.Now who's being THAT guy

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Dang it if I can't remember his name (Roy ??) that the Colts drafted out of Ohio State about 5-6 years ago. Guy had all-world measureables, very little time on the field at tOSU. And turned into...a temporary stint on the practice squad. That's with the same WR coaching of guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, etc.Please don't be that woman that constantly thinks she can change the guy into something he's not. I'm not saying it's impossible for Hill to become something great...but I will say I think it's very, very unlikely. And the cost of rostering him for 3 years isn't negligible.

Roy Hall.Classic Tarzan/Jane player

How about Alex Bannister or Chaz Schilens....list goes on and on.

 

[IndyHavoc]

Dang it if I can't remember his name (Roy ??) that the Colts drafted out of Ohio State about 5-6 years ago. Guy had all-world measureables, very little time on the field at tOSU. And turned into...a temporary stint on the practice squad. That's with the same WR coaching of guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, etc.Please don't be that woman that constantly thinks she can change the guy into something he's not. I'm not saying it's impossible for Hill to become something great...but I will say I think it's very, very unlikely. And the cost of rostering him for 3 years isn't negligible.

The same things were being said about DeMaryius Thomas when he was coming out of Ga. Tech's offense.Don't be the internet guy that think he's an NFL scout either.

Seriously? So, you think 6'4" and 205 is a good comparison to 6'3" and 225-235 lbs? OK then self proclaimed internet guy/scout. *nods*

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Dang it if I can't remember his name (Roy ??) that the Colts drafted out of Ohio State about 5-6 years ago. Guy had all-world measureables, very little time on the field at tOSU. And turned into...a temporary stint on the practice squad. That's with the same WR coaching of guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, etc.

Please don't be that woman that constantly thinks she can change the guy into something he's not. I'm not saying it's impossible for Hill to become something great...but I will say I think it's very, very unlikely. And the cost of rostering him for 3 years isn't negligible.

The same things were being said about DeMaryius Thomas when he was coming out of Ga. Tech's offense.Don't be the internet guy that think he's an NFL scout either.

Demaryius Thomas 6-3 235 4.3607- 35 receptions 558 yards 3 TD

08- 39 receptions 627 yards 3 TD

09- 46 receptions 1154 yards 8 TD

Stephen Hill 6-4 210 4.3

09- 6 receptions 137 yards 1 TD

10- 15 receptions 291 yards 3 TD

11- 28 receptions 820 yards 5 TD

Thomas was a much more accomplished(even though he was raw) WR coming out of Georgia Tech than Hill.

Now who's being THAT guy

Much more accomplished? Hardly. Thomas had the luxury of playing on a great 2009 team with many more weapons and a much better QB. And did you really just use stats from two different years and two different situations to compare players?