Peterson charged with reckless or negligent injury to a child? (1 Viewer)

[chinawildman]

Just a general question about the two cases.

Does anyone feel like the relative popularity of the two players will influence the NFL's decision in any way, or the public's perception of the incidents?

I could be totally off base with my assertion, which is that AP is generally more well liked and admired than Ray Rice.

I think popularity is not as relevant as the mens rea in the 2 incidents. There is no way Rice can argue that he "meant well" when he struck his fiancee. Whereas Peterson, regardless of whether you agree with his methods, was trying to be a father. As a former attorney, Goddell is surely familiar with this principle. It's also likely the reason why Peterson is charged with negligent child injury and not child abuse.

 

[cheif]

I'll never admit that it is perfect but let's at least try to live out the rules we've put together over centuries. Ignoring them to appease the masses is a contributor to downfall.

"The masses" are where the rules come from. The concept of a "reasonable person" is an extremely important one in the legal system, and part of how society changes is that what reasonable people (or "the masses", as you call them) changes over time.

At one point reasonable people thought it was terrible for blacks and whites to marry. For many years after reasonable people thought it was terrible for gays to marry. Society's opinions on these things is what changed them.

And it's pretty clear that there's no societal benefit to parents beating up on their children, and reasonable people now agree with that sentiment.

Unfortunately humans make emotional knee jerk reactions. Social media and the internet today eliminate the cool off period where we would normally re-evaluate the situation and modify our initial emotional reaction. This is due to the immediate affirmation we perceive by seeing everyone else's immediate emotional reaction. This false validation causes us to not consider any re-evaluation as we have already been validated.

This is the danger we, as a species, must come to terms with regarding social media and the internet. The internet has opened up a myriad of new paradigms for us, some good, some bad. We need time to adjust and we, obviously, haven't done that yet. I only hope we can before we consume ourselves in hatred and vitriol.

Governance of technology in general is way behind. Add in to the mix, social media and other legs of the technology tree and confusion is abundant. Hopefully, we'll catch up with it, I call it a win if we adapt to the changes without the hatred. Odds of that, eh, I don't know.

Nonetheless, good post.

 

[ghostguy123]

There is a point in using spanking/switching or some other form of physical punishment where it goes too far and passes up the threshold of usefulness. In this case it appears Peterson passed that threshold.

 

[Neofight]

A particularly depressing aspect of this and the Ray Rice situations is that at least 90% of people's responses are emotional, thought-free reactions that inevitably come down on one extreme or the other, when the truth is somewhere in the middle. Unfortunately, that requires patience and thinking, which very few want to do.

What AP did to that boy is awful and tragic. It is also consistent with his upbringing and his faith (to be clear, those don't excuse it, but they provide context for understanding how it happened). The fact that he believes he is acting in the best long-term interest of his son is important, no matter how ill-informed that belief may be. That's different from him being pissed off about losing a game and taking it out on his kid. The NFL will do whatever is in its best financial interest, and if we're lucky that will align with what's best for AP Junior. Maybe a two to four-week suspension for AP while he goes to counseling to learn how to be a strong father without resorting to violence, especially at that level. States may disagree on whether corporal punishment is allowed, but there is still a line and this is clearly beyond it.

It's true that Peterson is a devout Christian, but I think he misinterprets Christ's message on turning the other cheek.

 

[ghostguy123]

It's also likely the reason why Peterson is charged with negligent child injury and not child abuse.

And is this charge even in the new policy related to domestic violence? Does it even matter?? Rice is banned for eternity even though he was given 2 games and the policy was changed to 6 games like a week ago.

Still no idea why they even bother with the policies when they dont use them anyway.

 

[Csonka4life]

There is a point in using spanking/switching or some other form of physical punishment where it goes too far and passes up the threshold of usefulness. In this case it appears Peterson passed that threshold.

Understatement of the year. Fine hit the kid on the buttocks a few times. 4 year olds cry if they fall down and barely skin their hands. This is the kid of beating you might expect to give a 12 year old + who tries to kill a little sibling ie a 4 year old...

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

It's also likely the reason why Peterson is charged with negligent child injury and not child abuse.

And is this charge even in the new policy related to domestic violence? Does it even matter?? Rice is banned for eternity even though he was given 2 games and the policy was changed to 6 games like a week ago.

Still no idea why they even bother with the policies when they dont use them anyway.

If I had to guess, I'd say between 2 games and an indefinite suspension.

 

[Neofight]

Idk pics didn't bother me that much. I know kids young but there's nothing wrong with setting a strong example of discipline from a young age. Just means you have to do it less as the kid gets older since a statement was made early on.

Would you hit your wife with a stick until she bled?

Situation isn't comparable. A grown woman already has set moral standards and values. She is who she is as a person. A child can still be influenced by such punishment.

So the moral thing to do is hit a child until they bleed, but stop when they reach... what age?

 

[ghostguy123]

There is a point in using spanking/switching or some other form of physical punishment where it goes too far and passes up the threshold of usefulness. In this case it appears Peterson passed that threshold.

Understatement of the year. Fine hit the kid on the buttocks a few times. 4 year olds cry if they fall down and barely skin their hands. This is the kid of beating you might expect to give a 12 year old + who tries to kill a little sibling ie a 4 year old...

yeah, people are arguing back and forth about "child abuse and child beating", but both sides are using the extreme of either zero touching or full on beat downs. Kinda figured that would happen here. How could it not?? It always does anytime something like this comes up.

 

[Vector]

Idk pics didn't bother me that much. I know kids young but there's nothing wrong with setting a strong example of discipline from a young age. Just means you have to do it less as the kid gets older since a statement was made early on.

Would you hit your wife with a stick until she bled?

Situation isn't comparable. A grown woman already has set moral standards and values. She is who she is as a person. A child can still be influenced by such punishment.

So the moral thing to do is hit a child until they bleed, but stop when they reach... what age?

I'm assuming you represent the neo-moral majority.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Can't imagine doing that to my child. Don't care what society thinks, i just know i'd feel like a monster doing that to the thing i love most.

 

[sj_bennett]

"@RapSheet: Arrest of Adrian Peterson (reported by @MarkBermanFox26) stems from the disciplining of a son with a switch, source says. Hes been indicted "

Sad the kid was hurt, sounds like he crossed a line (in the opinion of many/most). Sad that it is being reported as a "branch" instead of a pine switch. It seems to me the need to express outrage has blown this out of proportion.

Anyone know where the actual facts are available? Thanks.

 

[Foster335]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

 

[dparker713]

In a way, seems similar to Vick's situation. Peterson is basically going to say, "I didn't know it was wrong."

Really?

Unless and until you change your screen name, you really need to avoid any thread regarding morality, especially involving children. Enjoy the bowl game this season.

 

[Neofight]

Idk pics didn't bother me that much. I know kids young but there's nothing wrong with setting a strong example of discipline from a young age. Just means you have to do it less as the kid gets older since a statement was made early on.

Would you hit your wife with a stick until she bled?

Situation isn't comparable. A grown woman already has set moral standards and values. She is who she is as a person. A child can still be influenced by such punishment.

So the moral thing to do is hit a child until they bleed, but stop when they reach... what age?

I'm assuming you represent the neo-moral majority.

Why assume that when I didn't bring up the moral angle?

 

[Csonka4life]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

Yep as the money has gotten better it seems like the class of player has gotten more idiotic and juvenile. Back when the salaries were CFL type money ie AAA baseball type pay there were less morons. Or so it seemed.

 

[Vector]

Idk pics didn't bother me that much. I know kids young but there's nothing wrong with setting a strong example of discipline from a young age. Just means you have to do it less as the kid gets older since a statement was made early on.

Would you hit your wife with a stick until she bled?

Situation isn't comparable. A grown woman already has set moral standards and values. She is who she is as a person. A child can still be influenced by such punishment.

So the moral thing to do is hit a child until they bleed, but stop when they reach... what age?

I'm assuming you represent the neo-moral majority.

Why assume that when I didn't bring up the moral angle?

wait, what?

 

[Neofight]

Look at the post above that.

 

[chinawildman]

It's also likely the reason why Peterson is charged with negligent child injury and not child abuse.

And is this charge even in the new policy related to domestic violence? Does it even matter?? Rice is banned for eternity even though he was given 2 games and the policy was changed to 6 games like a week ago.

Still no idea why they even bother with the policies when they dont use them anyway.

No idea regarding the policy, since the term "abuse" is technically not part of the charges from what I've seen so far.

Revisiting the timeline of the Rice case, it appears that NFL discipline only followed after the judicial process concluded. This will likely be the case here, as has been the case with Ray McDonald. Peterson's deactivation for this weekend likely has as much to do with PR control as it does with the fact that there's currently a warrant out for his arrest in Texas and no team wants a fugitive toting the rock for them on Sunday.

I assume the Vikings are in full blown PR disaster containment mode. It's possible they deactivate him for another week just to let the incident "blow over". I don't see any discipline levied by the team or the NFL until official judicial due process has concluded... which could be awhile.

 

[RealReactions]

It honestly doesn't look that bad at all. I was raised by "whoppings" also and it teaches you greatly. That's what is wrong with this county now bunch of little as kids get away with what ever they want and are spoiled. Just last year Iforget which college coach it was but he got fired for yelling at a kid during 2adays in football training. Talk about the ####ification of america. We are becoming too soft as a nation I support AP he ddidn't beat the kid senseless he hit him a little too hard and he realises that but physical punishment will make that young boy a true man. He isn't abusive at all some parents want to raise their kids to be little #####es so be it AP wants his kid to be a man and I support him on that.

 

[VaTerp]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

This is a great point.

Everybody wants to be so quick to judge others and offer their OPINION on the overall quality of character of people they don't know.

People do things that are on the fringe or beyond what is considered socially acceptable. And in the internet age everyone wants to offer their opinion on what they learn on the negative actions of others. Because NFL players are in a fish bowl everyone thinks they can pass judgement on what they see on TV or read on the internet.

NFL players are, for the most part, a bunch of guys in their 20s who are really gifted and focused on playing football, but have the same flaws and attributes as the rest of us.

It makes a lot of people feel better to point fingers and call out the negatives of others. But we are all human and capable of doing F'ed up stuff from time to time.

 

[Mark Davis]

Not looking good for AP. I got spanked as a child, and occasionally had the belt or switch. If it were just the fact he used a switch it's one thing, but this is more. I never came out looking like that.

 

[Mark Davis]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

This is a great point.

Everybody wants to be so quick to judge others and offer their OPINION on the overall quality of character of people they don't know.

People do things that are on the fringe or beyond what is considered socially acceptable. And in the internet age everyone wants to offer their opinion on what they learn on the negative actions of others. Because NFL players are in a fish bowl everyone thinks they can pass judgement on what they see on TV or read on the internet.

NFL players are, for the most part, a bunch of guys in their 20s who are really gifted and focused on playing football, but have the same flaws and attributes as the rest of us.

It makes a lot of people feel better to point fingers and call out the negatives of others. But we are all human and capable of doing F'ed up stuff from time to time.

And if we all made that kind of money we would probably do even more F'ed up stuff. Especially if we had that kind of money in our early 20's. I could handle it now but you give me a couple million a year when I was 22 and it would have been crazy.

 

[RenegadeRoy]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

But they're also very public figures, and more importantly role models for children of all ages. It comes with the territory of being on TV every week, having shoe deals, and being on cereal boxes. It's not like this is a surprise to players that part of being a star in the NFL also makes them a celebrity. We glorify them because they have achieved the pinnacle of success in their field, doing what most of us could never possibly do. They represent an idealistic dream of getting paid millions of dollars to "play a game" every week. They're much more than guys throwin' around the pigskin. It's on them to act how they want to act, but they don't get to hide behind the "I'm just a human" excuse. Yes, people make mistakes, but if NFL players didn't want to be under constant public scrutiny, they should've gone into a different career.

 

[Csonka4life]

It honestly doesn't look that bad at all. I was raised by "whoppings" also and it teaches you greatly. That's what is wrong with this county now bunch of little as kids get away with what ever they want and are spoiled. Just last year Iforget which college coach it was but he got fired for yelling at a kid during 2adays in football training. Talk about the ####ification of america. We are becoming too soft as a nation I support AP he ddidn't beat the kid senseless he hit him a little too hard and he realises that but physical punishment will make that young boy a true man. He isn't abusive at all some parents want to raise their kids to be little #####es so be it AP wants his kid to be a man and I support him on that.

The kid is 4. It's horrific for that age. If the kid was 12+ maybe I could see it for something serious. Maybe Peterson was abused as kid and was literally beaten up by male authority figures in his life, otherwise it's a case of the blind leading the blind..

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

I'm not surprised most of you have jumped to conclusions.

Look the marks are horrendous. Adrian Peterson is one of the strongest men on the planet. His handshakes are legendary. I think he can probably get the point across to his kids without a switch. He needs to scale back bigtime and the courts will decide his fate. I hope he can heal the scars and his relationship with his child. What probably started out as strong punishment has apparently (if the pictures are accurate) crossed the line from strict to abuse, and he will quite possibly face serous legal ramifications for that.

As an aside, We have reached a very scary point in society where the masses collectively "burn people at the stake" and demand justice. Instead of letting things come out, and letting the process work it's way through the courts, we have millions of self righteous internet-obsessed judges demanding instant justice for Peterson. Heck if a person comes out and says "I think be should only be suspended 4 games" than that person will get railroaded by half of twitter or this forum.

What's worse is now everyone is waiting on roger Goodell for some reason like he's the judge and jury of everything. Geez it's like the nfl world has handed over dictator rights to this guy. No wonder he's gotten arrogant. We can't allow the court system, or even his employer the Vikings to make a decision. We really don't even want to wait 2 days. We need our blood and we need it now. If this guy doesn't get suspended for life than it's a crime on humanity. We need the dictator to come down off his throne and boot AP out of the league.

I'm actually feeling sorry for RG because he's presiding over a league of rich entitled athletes who are spoiled rotten and now instead of being a commissioner of a football league, he has to make moral judgments and face a firestorm of inevitable controversy from all over the web if the punishment doesn't meet the satisfaction of the football world.

I'm about to check twitter for the first time in 2 hours and I can guarantee every fantasy football blogger and nfl blogger will be one upping each other with more moral outrage than the next, to show what a good person they are.

Get a grip guys. Let the process play out.

Thank you.

It's the ones who were physically disciplined vs the ones who were put in "time out". And none of them know ####.

 

[Neofight]

Might as well post it before the inevitable deletion.

JFC

Yep. Just honoring his glory. The good news is that Roddy can get AP to do some baby-sitting for him this weekend.

 

[VaTerp]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

But they're also very public figures, and more importantly role models for children of all ages. It comes with the territory of being on TV every week, having shoe deals, and being on cereal boxes. It's not like this is a surprise to players that part of being a star in the NFL also makes them a celebrity. We glorify them because they have achieved the pinnacle of success in their field, doing what most of us could never possibly do. They represent an idealistic dream of getting paid millions of dollars to "play a game" every week. They're much more than guys throwin' around the pigskin. It's on them to act how they want to act, but they don't get to hide behind the "I'm just a human" excuse. Yes, people make mistakes, but if NFL players didn't want to be under constant public scrutiny, they should've gone into a different career.

This is such a tired line. Every adult is a role model for children, whether they like it or not. There are tons of kids who couldn't care less about the NFL and couldn't name 5 players. WHO ARE THEIR ROLE MODELS? Every adult they observe on a daily basis.

WE are the ones who make a big deal of athletically gifted and well compensated 20 somethings and put them under public scrutiny. Yes, they have a great opportunity but that doesn't change the fact that they are 20 something year old humans who are going to do some dumb ish. Pretty much all of us do.

When they get caught doing negative stuff then they deal with the consequences like everybody else. But let's stop acting like it's the end of the world or like they are so different than the rest of us just so some of us can point fingers and feel better about ourselves.

 

[Foster335]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

But they're also very public figures, and more importantly role models for children of all ages. It comes with the territory of being on TV every week, having shoe deals, and being on cereal boxes. It's not like this is a surprise to players that part of being a star in the NFL also makes them a celebrity. We glorify them because they have achieved the pinnacle of success in their field, doing what most of us could never possibly do. They represent an idealistic dream of getting paid millions of dollars to "play a game" every week. They're much more than guys throwin' around the pigskin. It's on them to act how they want to act, but they don't get to hide behind the "I'm just a human" excuse. Yes, people make mistakes, but if NFL players didn't want to be under constant public scrutiny, they should've gone into a different career.

This is such a tired line. Every adult is a role model for children, whether they like it or not. There are tons of kids who couldn't care less about the NFL and couldn't name 5 players. WHO ARE THEIR ROLE MODELS? Every adult they observe on a daily basis.

WE are the ones who make a big deal of athletically gifted and well compensated 20 somethings and put them under public scrutiny. Yes, they have a great opportunity but that doesn't change the fact that they are 20 something year old humans who are going to do some dumb ish. Pretty much all of us do.

When they get caught doing negative stuff then they deal with the consequences like everybody else. But let's stop acting like it's the end of the world or like they are so different than the rest of us just so some of us can point fingers and feel better about ourselves.

I agree with both of your points here honestly.

Sometimes these incidents make me feel like we need a little perspective as a society. They are role models - because we put them there. These are the things we value collectively. People are outraged when these kinds of things happen, but ultimately we show what we value most with our attention, dollars, and emotional involvement.

 

[General Tso]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

But they're also very public figures, and more importantly role models for children of all ages. It comes with the territory of being on TV every week, having shoe deals, and being on cereal boxes. It's not like this is a surprise to players that part of being a star in the NFL also makes them a celebrity. We glorify them because they have achieved the pinnacle of success in their field, doing what most of us could never possibly do. They represent an idealistic dream of getting paid millions of dollars to "play a game" every week. They're much more than guys throwin' around the pigskin. It's on them to act how they want to act, but they don't get to hide behind the "I'm just a human" excuse. Yes, people make mistakes, but if NFL players didn't want to be under constant public scrutiny, they should've gone into a different career.

This is such a tired line. Every adult is a role model for children, whether they like it or not. There are tons of kids who couldn't care less about the NFL and couldn't name 5 players. WHO ARE THEIR ROLE MODELS? Every adult they observe on a daily basis.

WE are the ones who make a big deal of athletically gifted and well compensated 20 somethings and put them under public scrutiny. Yes, they have a great opportunity but that doesn't change the fact that they are 20 something year old humans who are going to do some dumb ish. Pretty much all of us do.

When they get caught doing negative stuff then they deal with the consequences like everybody else. But let's stop acting like it's the end of the world or like they are so different than the rest of us just so some of us can point fingers and feel better about ourselves.

Yeah, but I'm starting to wonder if the NFL as an institution is doing a lousy job producing stand-up athletes that can make nice in a society that includes you and me. I know the company I work for and I can assure you it has a FAR less crime ratio than the NFL does. And my company is not in the business of entertaining the public - you know, the people who ultimately pay money to root for these players.Some of this is self righteous finger pointing, for sure. But some of it is also a legitimate concern that the NFL has somehow become a breeding ground for violent criminals.

 

[LOCO]

i think he will be suspend indefinetly.

 

[VaTerp]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

But they're also very public figures, and more importantly role models for children of all ages. It comes with the territory of being on TV every week, having shoe deals, and being on cereal boxes. It's not like this is a surprise to players that part of being a star in the NFL also makes them a celebrity. We glorify them because they have achieved the pinnacle of success in their field, doing what most of us could never possibly do. They represent an idealistic dream of getting paid millions of dollars to "play a game" every week. They're much more than guys throwin' around the pigskin. It's on them to act how they want to act, but they don't get to hide behind the "I'm just a human" excuse. Yes, people make mistakes, but if NFL players didn't want to be under constant public scrutiny, they should've gone into a different career.

This is such a tired line. Every adult is a role model for children, whether they like it or not. There are tons of kids who couldn't care less about the NFL and couldn't name 5 players. WHO ARE THEIR ROLE MODELS? Every adult they observe on a daily basis.

WE are the ones who make a big deal of athletically gifted and well compensated 20 somethings and put them under public scrutiny. Yes, they have a great opportunity but that doesn't change the fact that they are 20 something year old humans who are going to do some dumb ish. Pretty much all of us do.

When they get caught doing negative stuff then they deal with the consequences like everybody else. But let's stop acting like it's the end of the world or like they are so different than the rest of us just so some of us can point fingers and feel better about ourselves.

Yeah, but I'm starting to wonder if the NFL as an institution is doing a lousy job producing stand-up athletes that can make nice in a society that includes you and me. I know the company I work for and I can assure you it has a FAR less crime ratio than the NFL does. And my company is not in the business of entertaining the public - you know, the people who ultimately pay money to root for these players.Some of this is self righteous finger pointing, for sure. But some of it is also a legitimate concern that the NFL has somehow become a breeding ground for violent criminals.

Disagree. There are plenty of "stand-up" athletes in the NFL. You and the media chose what you want to focus on.

And that sort of misses the entire point anyway.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Really surprised today's news has generated a debate about corporal punishment. Misses the issue. What AP inflicted was child abuse. Intent is irrelevant. Personal history is irrelevant. Culture is irrelevant. Those disturbing pictures reveal a severely abused 4-year-old child.

Yes, it is but what I trying to get through people's heads is that a lot of people think that child abuse is acceptable in order to discipline them.

This isn't about AP, it's about a country that think this is ok.

I'm sure there are a lot of people that think smacking around the old lady is okay too. I don't really see the point in bringing that up.

Some people think it's okay to strike your child. If done in certain ways, I may even agree. To an extent, it's legal.

So what? What this person did in this instance is not okay. That's why he's been charged with a felony, in freaking Texas of all places.

 

[squistion]

It honestly doesn't look that bad at all. I was raised by "whoppings" also and it teaches you greatly. That's what is wrong with this county now bunch of little as kids get away with what ever they want and are spoiled. Just last year Iforget which college coach it was but he got fired for yelling at a kid during 2adays in football training. Talk about the ####ification of america. We are becoming too soft as a nation I support AP he ddidn't beat the kid senseless he hit him a little too hard and he realises that but physical punishment will make that young boy a true man. He isn't abusive at all some parents want to raise their kids to be little #####es so be it AP wants his kid to be a man and I support him on that.

OK.

 

[Csonka4life]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

But they're also very public figures, and more importantly role models for children of all ages. It comes with the territory of being on TV every week, having shoe deals, and being on cereal boxes. It's not like this is a surprise to players that part of being a star in the NFL also makes them a celebrity. We glorify them because they have achieved the pinnacle of success in their field, doing what most of us could never possibly do. They represent an idealistic dream of getting paid millions of dollars to "play a game" every week. They're much more than guys throwin' around the pigskin. It's on them to act how they want to act, but they don't get to hide behind the "I'm just a human" excuse. Yes, people make mistakes, but if NFL players didn't want to be under constant public scrutiny, they should've gone into a different career.

This is such a tired line. Every adult is a role model for children, whether they like it or not. There are tons of kids who couldn't care less about the NFL and couldn't name 5 players. WHO ARE THEIR ROLE MODELS? Every adult they observe on a daily basis.

WE are the ones who make a big deal of athletically gifted and well compensated 20 somethings and put them under public scrutiny. Yes, they have a great opportunity but that doesn't change the fact that they are 20 something year old humans who are going to do some dumb ish. Pretty much all of us do.

When they get caught doing negative stuff then they deal with the consequences like everybody else. But let's stop acting like it's the end of the world or like they are so different than the rest of us just so some of us can point fingers and feel better about ourselves.

Yeah, but I'm starting to wonder if the NFL as an institution is doing a lousy job producing stand-up athletes that can make nice in a society that includes you and me. I know the company I work for and I can assure you it has a FAR less crime ratio than the NFL does. And my company is not in the business of entertaining the public - you know, the people who ultimately pay money to root for these players.Some of this is self righteous finger pointing, for sure. But some of it is also a legitimate concern that the NFL has somehow become a breeding ground for violent criminals.

Disagree. There are plenty of stand up athletes in the NFL. You and the media chose what you want to focus on.

And that sort of misses the entire point anyway.

The NFl has about 2000 guys who play in the league every year. Any business that employs that many people in a blue collar violent job are going to have X amount of F@#k ups. While I think it's higher than say hockey which is another violent sport they also have 2.5 times the employees too.

 

[babydemon90]

Putting aside the predictable debate here on the morality of his actions...

My thought, no chance Peterson avoids the 6 game suspension, with possibly more, right?

 

[bbuster]

Since 1990 most of this country's school shootings have taken place. You know, around the same time people started complaining about whipping our kids, both at home and in school. A little fear of parents and teachers isn't necessarily a bad thing, but no way in hell I'll ever convince anyone under the age of 42 otherwise, so I won't. Just keep raising your kids telling them how great they are and at the same time not paying attention to what's going on in their lives, and make sure they collect that trophy for just being on the team, even though they suck because you don't have the time to give them instructions on how to hit and catch a ball and when they go shoot up a school, remember, I told you so.

Even cavemen think you're a caveman.

I actually agree with what Johnny says here. We were taught to respect our parents. When we didn't, we got whacked by various kitchen gadgets. Was it a great idea? I don't know, but most of us learned to respect. It was a pretty simple decision to learn to respect and obey our parents and teachers. We didn't take guns into schools. What we got, we earned. I didn't choose to spank my child, but then again, my child(now27) is a self-entitled brat who thinks she knows everything with 2 kids of her own. I obviously didn't think whacking a kid was a good idea, but now as I see what this generation has become, I wonder if I was wrong. I always told mine that she was the greatest kid in the world and boy does she still believe it!

 

[VaTerp]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

But they're also very public figures, and more importantly role models for children of all ages. It comes with the territory of being on TV every week, having shoe deals, and being on cereal boxes. It's not like this is a surprise to players that part of being a star in the NFL also makes them a celebrity. We glorify them because they have achieved the pinnacle of success in their field, doing what most of us could never possibly do. They represent an idealistic dream of getting paid millions of dollars to "play a game" every week. They're much more than guys throwin' around the pigskin. It's on them to act how they want to act, but they don't get to hide behind the "I'm just a human" excuse. Yes, people make mistakes, but if NFL players didn't want to be under constant public scrutiny, they should've gone into a different career.

This is such a tired line. Every adult is a role model for children, whether they like it or not. There are tons of kids who couldn't care less about the NFL and couldn't name 5 players. WHO ARE THEIR ROLE MODELS? Every adult they observe on a daily basis.

WE are the ones who make a big deal of athletically gifted and well compensated 20 somethings and put them under public scrutiny. Yes, they have a great opportunity but that doesn't change the fact that they are 20 something year old humans who are going to do some dumb ish. Pretty much all of us do.

When they get caught doing negative stuff then they deal with the consequences like everybody else. But let's stop acting like it's the end of the world or like they are so different than the rest of us just so some of us can point fingers and feel better about ourselves.

Yeah, but I'm starting to wonder if the NFL as an institution is doing a lousy job producing stand-up athletes that can make nice in a society that includes you and me. I know the company I work for and I can assure you it has a FAR less crime ratio than the NFL does. And my company is not in the business of entertaining the public - you know, the people who ultimately pay money to root for these players.Some of this is self righteous finger pointing, for sure. But some of it is also a legitimate concern that the NFL has somehow become a breeding ground for violent criminals.

Disagree. There are plenty of stand up athletes in the NFL. You and the media chose what you want to focus on.

And that sort of misses the entire point anyway.

The NFl has about 2000 guys who play in the league every year. Any business that employs that many people in a blue collar violent job are going to have X amount of F@#k ups. While I think it's higher than say hockey which is another violent sport they also have 2.5 times the employees too.

This is likely not a popular opinion on this site but I think a lot of that also has to do with race.

I happen to have had the opportunity to be around a lot of high level athletes in my life. Professional hockey and baseball players are some wild guys in my experience who do many of the same things that football and basketball players do. But they get arrested for the same type of behavior at a much lesser rate. Similar to the racial discrepancies for the documented history of drug use vs arrest in this country.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Since 1990 most of this country's school shootings have taken place. You know, around the same time people started complaining about whipping our kids, both at home and in school. A little fear of parents and teachers isn't necessarily a bad thing, but no way in hell I'll ever convince anyone under the age of 42 otherwise, so I won't. Just keep raising your kids telling them how great they are and at the same time not paying attention to what's going on in their lives, and make sure they collect that trophy for just being on the team, even though they suck because you don't have the time to give them instructions on how to hit and catch a ball and when they go shoot up a school, remember, I told you so.

Even cavemen think you're a caveman.

I actually agree with what Johnny says here. We were taught to respect our parents. When we didn't, we got whacked by various kitchen gadgets. Was it a great idea? I don't know, but most of us learned to respect. It was a pretty simple decision to learn to respect and obey our parents and teachers. We didn't take guns into schools. What we got, we earned. I didn't choose to spank my child, but then again, my child(now27) is a self-entitled brat who thinks she knows everything with 2 kids of her own. I obviously didn't think whacking a kid was a good idea, but now as I see what this generation has become, I wonder if I was wrong. I always told mine that she was the greatest kid in the world and boy does she still believe it!

Yes, clearly you are 100% responsible for your daughter turning out to be a brat, and clearly the only parenting mistake you made was that you didn't beat her into a good person.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

But they're also very public figures, and more importantly role models for children of all ages. It comes with the territory of being on TV every week, having shoe deals, and being on cereal boxes. It's not like this is a surprise to players that part of being a star in the NFL also makes them a celebrity. We glorify them because they have achieved the pinnacle of success in their field, doing what most of us could never possibly do. They represent an idealistic dream of getting paid millions of dollars to "play a game" every week. They're much more than guys throwin' around the pigskin. It's on them to act how they want to act, but they don't get to hide behind the "I'm just a human" excuse. Yes, people make mistakes, but if NFL players didn't want to be under constant public scrutiny, they should've gone into a different career.

This is such a tired line. Every adult is a role model for children, whether they like it or not. There are tons of kids who couldn't care less about the NFL and couldn't name 5 players. WHO ARE THEIR ROLE MODELS? Every adult they observe on a daily basis.

WE are the ones who make a big deal of athletically gifted and well compensated 20 somethings and put them under public scrutiny. Yes, they have a great opportunity but that doesn't change the fact that they are 20 something year old humans who are going to do some dumb ish. Pretty much all of us do.

When they get caught doing negative stuff then they deal with the consequences like everybody else. But let's stop acting like it's the end of the world or like they are so different than the rest of us just so some of us can point fingers and feel better about ourselves.

Yeah, but I'm starting to wonder if the NFL as an institution is doing a lousy job producing stand-up athletes that can make nice in a society that includes you and me. I know the company I work for and I can assure you it has a FAR less crime ratio than the NFL does. And my company is not in the business of entertaining the public - you know, the people who ultimately pay money to root for these players.Some of this is self righteous finger pointing, for sure. But some of it is also a legitimate concern that the NFL has somehow become a breeding ground for violent criminals.

Disagree. There are plenty of stand up athletes in the NFL. You and the media chose what you want to focus on.

And that sort of misses the entire point anyway.

The NFl has about 2000 guys who play in the league every year. Any business that employs that many people in a blue collar violent job are going to have X amount of F@#k ups. While I think it's higher than say hockey which is another violent sport they also have 2.5 times the employees too.

Steven A. Smith was on the radio the other day, I think he had some stats, and it was like since the year 2000, there have been 54 arrests for domestic violence in the NFL (meaning the players). When you multiply the number of players in the league each year x 13+ years, I'd bet a million dollars that the percentage you'd get is lower than the rest of the population.

 

[squistion]

Sonya Lee @bujeeboo

You know what, if your daddy beat you with a switch, it was abuse then too. Stop the sick legacy. #AdrianPeterson

 

[Carver]

Are you people serious? I picked many a switch for my parents so they could beat my butt with it.... the key is to pick one that's not to green and not too dead the green ones hurt more ...but if you get a dead one, you have to go back and get another usually means a harder beating ... This is what is wrong with this country I guess none of you ever got a paddling at school either

The kid is 4yrs old.

I hate to break it to you, but you getting whipped didn't make you a better/stronger man. All it made you is a boy who was abused who grew into a man who thinks that whipping a four year old 15-20 times with a tree branch is ok.

It isn't. It's borderline crazy. The kid isn't even old enough for kindergarten. He's a baby practically.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

It honestly doesn't look that bad at all. I was raised by "whoppings" also and it teaches you greatly. That's what is wrong with this county now bunch of little as kids get away with what ever they want and are spoiled. Just last year Iforget which college coach it was but he got fired for yelling at a kid during 2adays in football training. Talk about the ####ification of america. We are becoming too soft as a nation I support AP he ddidn't beat the kid senseless he hit him a little too hard and he realises that but physical punishment will make that young boy a true man. He isn't abusive at all some parents want to raise their kids to be little #####es so be it AP wants his kid to be a man and I support him on that.

The kid is four. He's supposed to be soft. His bones haven't stopped hardening yet. Beating a four year old doesn't make him a true man, unless the prevalent view of a "man" is something warped and twisted beyond recognition.

If it doesn't look that bad to you, I pity your eyes and what they've seen previously.

May we continue to be a soft nation that rails against whipping four year olds leaving cuts on the back of the legs and the scrotum in the name of making them men.

 

[Csonka4life]

Are you people serious? I picked many a switch for my parents so they could beat my butt with it.... the key is to pick one that's not to green and not too dead the green ones hurt more ...but if you get a dead one, you have to go back and get another usually means a harder beating ... This is what is wrong with this country I guess none of you ever got a paddling at school either

The kid is 4yrs old.

I hate to break it to you, but you getting whipped didn't make you a better/stronger man. All it made you is a boy who was abused who grew into a man who thinks that whipping a four year old 15-20 times with a tree branch is ok.

It isn't. It's borderline crazy. The kid isn't even old enough for kindergarten. He's a baby practically.

My thoughts exactly this is kid who wasn't in school at the time or was just ending junior kindergarten. Really scary to think there was any rationale behind the whipping.

 

[cstu]

Just a general question about the two cases.

Does anyone feel like the relative popularity of the two players will influence the NFL's decision in any way, or the public's perception of the incidents?

I could be totally off base with my assertion, which is that AP is generally more well liked and admired than Ray Rice.

I think popularity is not as relevant as the mens rea in the 2 incidents. There is no way Rice can argue that he "meant well" when he struck his fiancee. Whereas Peterson, regardless of whether you agree with his methods, was trying to be a father. As a former attorney, Goddell is surely familiar with this principle. It's also likely the reason why Peterson is charged with negligent child injury and not child abuse.

This is a case of him doing what is legal in his state but going too far with it.

If spanking were made illegal none of this would be happening.

 

[Quasimoto]

Oh, Jesus, kid was four. This guy should be in prison. Immediately.

its still not ok to abuse an 11 year old.

I agree. I think this is almost certainly good reason for prison for doing it to an 11-year-old.

But under any circumstance whatsoever to strike a four year old like that is beyond imagination.

You've led a sheltered life, haven't you.

I'm beginning to think that a lot of Footballguys have led sheltered lives. We have officially become a nation of emo wimps.

The child was not seriously injured. AP should be issued a warning against this type of discipline, and the matter dropped. If it happens again, then that might warrant more concrete action.

So, do you know for a fact this was the first time he did it?

And there could be more here then physical damage....but you already know that, right Dr.

Is that what I said? The fact that nobody has claimed that the child was seriously injured should probably suffice...don't you think? How 'bout we stick with the facts we actually have rather than implying phantom facts in order to further a particular narrative.

 

[Proust Loves Cake]

Putting aside the predictable debate here on the morality of his actions...

My thought, no chance Peterson avoids the 6 game suspension, with possibly more, right?

Under domestic violence, will this be considered "in the presence of a child"? If so, he gets more than 6. And I certainly expect the Vikings will cut him this week.

 

[Bobby Guano]

Another thought, does anyone else feel like its a bit hypocritical of us to pile on to these guys for reasons that have nothing to do with what we glorify them for in the first place?

Not condoning any of their actions or the NFL's lack of action. Just food for thought. They are professional football players - we expect them to be good at football. They're not in the NFL for being stand up members of the community.

I'm not trying to take a stand one way or the other here, so please don't flame me too much. Just trying to make a bigger point about us enjoying and celebrating violence on the field.

Also I love football.

But they're also very public figures, and more importantly role models for children of all ages. It comes with the territory of being on TV every week, having shoe deals, and being on cereal boxes. It's not like this is a surprise to players that part of being a star in the NFL also makes them a celebrity. We glorify them because they have achieved the pinnacle of success in their field, doing what most of us could never possibly do. They represent an idealistic dream of getting paid millions of dollars to "play a game" every week. They're much more than guys throwin' around the pigskin. It's on them to act how they want to act, but they don't get to hide behind the "I'm just a human" excuse. Yes, people make mistakes, but if NFL players didn't want to be under constant public scrutiny, they should've gone into a different career.

This is such a tired line. Every adult is a role model for children, whether they like it or not. There are tons of kids who couldn't care less about the NFL and couldn't name 5 players. WHO ARE THEIR ROLE MODELS? Every adult they observe on a daily basis.

WE are the ones who make a big deal of athletically gifted and well compensated 20 somethings and put them under public scrutiny. Yes, they have a great opportunity but that doesn't change the fact that they are 20 something year old humans who are going to do some dumb ish. Pretty much all of us do.

When they get caught doing negative stuff then they deal with the consequences like everybody else. But let's stop acting like it's the end of the world or like they are so different than the rest of us just so some of us can point fingers and feel better about ourselves.

Yeah, but I'm starting to wonder if the NFL as an institution is doing a lousy job producing stand-up athletes that can make nice in a society that includes you and me. I know the company I work for and I can assure you it has a FAR less crime ratio than the NFL does. And my company is not in the business of entertaining the public - you know, the people who ultimately pay money to root for these players.Some of this is self righteous finger pointing, for sure. But some of it is also a legitimate concern that the NFL has somehow become a breeding ground for violent criminals.

A good portion of professional athletes seem to come from poverty and broken homes. Many of them we're most likely raised by violent criminals or exposed to some form of violence or abuse at an early age. Most of them have put all their life's efforts into playing sports as a means to better themselves and get out poverty. Unfortunately for many of these athletes the money they make when the make it in professional sports does not help them break the cycle of abuse they were born into. It's not the NFL that's a breeding ground for violent criminals it's our society as a whole.

It's not really an excuse because if you are a decent human being you will know better and hopefully break they cycle but it is what it is. Many many people go on to commit the sins of their fathers in some way or another.

 

[bbuster]

Since 1990 most of this country's school shootings have taken place. You know, around the same time people started complaining about whipping our kids, both at home and in school. A little fear of parents and teachers isn't necessarily a bad thing, but no way in hell I'll ever convince anyone under the age of 42 otherwise, so I won't. Just keep raising your kids telling them how great they are and at the same time not paying attention to what's going on in their lives, and make sure they collect that trophy for just being on the team, even though they suck because you don't have the time to give them instructions on how to hit and catch a ball and when they go shoot up a school, remember, I told you so.

Even cavemen think you're a caveman.

I actually agree with what Johnny says here. We were taught to respect our parents. When we didn't, we got whacked by various kitchen gadgets. Was it a great idea? I don't know, but most of us learned to respect. It was a pretty simple decision to learn to respect and obey our parents and teachers. We didn't take guns into schools. What we got, we earned. I didn't choose to spank my child, but then again, my child(now27) is a self-entitled brat who thinks she knows everything with 2 kids of her own. I obviously didn't think whacking a kid was a good idea, but now as I see what this generation has become, I wonder if I was wrong. I always told mine that she was the greatest kid in the world and boy does she still believe it!

Yes, clearly you are 100% responsible for your daughter turning out to be a brat, and clearly the only parenting mistake you made was that you didn't beat her into a good person.

I don't recall saying anything about "beating". My child was taught "verbally" to respect and as a child she did for the most part because she didn't want to be grounded. I'm saying I honestly don't know what's best, but it doesn't shock me in the least that you would toss out judgment on an honest admission. Lots of judgment to be had on this topic. In fact, with the internet, people are very quick to throw out judgment. My child was/is very loved. Did we make mistakes? I'm sure we did. All parents do. I'm just having a hard time understanding why this generation has such a self-entitled attitude and a general lack of respect. Maybe it has nothing to do with spanking vs non spanking. It probably has something to do with the whole "love yourself" BS that is so popular today. Since when has anyone(in any generation) had a problem "loving themselves"? We all love ourselves too much and don't love others enough.

 

[cstu]

Putting aside the predictable debate here on the morality of his actions...

My thought, no chance Peterson avoids the 6 game suspension, with possibly more, right?

Under domestic violence, will this be considered "in the presence of a child"? If so, he gets more than 6. And I certainly expect the Vikings will cut him this week.

No, it wouldn't. He was disciplining his child in a legal manner but it was excessive.

Regarding the bolded, that's crazy.