What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

*** Official Real Estate Forum *** (4 Viewers)

Find an aggressive RE Agent, or better yet a BROKER to work with. Let EVERY RE Professional that you come into contact with know that you are looking for a deal, that you are capable and ready to buy if they put the right deal in your lap. That Agent is going to love not having to advertise, and many times you see things before they hit the MLS. Your offer is in place and working before the listing comes out.
I can't emphasize how solid this advice is. Yeah, I'm in the business and there are too many people in the business who shouldn't be, crooks, and dimwits. That said, I run into these part time "find it yourselfers" that either get burned or never pull the trigger on anything good. They'd rather spend days driving around then a couple of hours discussing their goals and plans with an agent. I run into deals all the time, especially leased homes an investor wants to sell that will generate a profit which is rare in this day and age. I have people causally ask me all the time to call them when I see a great deal...but won't take the time to come in a discussion the details and determine how the relationship will be mutually beneficial. My deals and leads are going to repeat customers.
 
Find an aggressive RE Agent, or better yet a BROKER to work with. Let EVERY RE Professional that you come into contact with know that you are looking for a deal, that you are capable and ready to buy if they put the right deal in your lap. That Agent is going to love not having to advertise, and many times you see things before they hit the MLS. Your offer is in place and working before the listing comes out.
I can't emphasize how solid this advice is. Yeah, I'm in the business and there are too many people in the business who shouldn't be, crooks, and dimwits. That said, I run into these part time "find it yourselfers" that either get burned or never pull the trigger on anything good. They'd rather spend days driving around then a couple of hours discussing their goals and plans with an agent. I run into deals all the time, especially leased homes an investor wants to sell that will generate a profit which is rare in this day and age. I have people causally ask me all the time to call them when I see a great deal...but won't take the time to come in a discussion the details and determine how the relationship will be mutually beneficial. My deals and leads are going to repeat customers.
EXTREMELY important point.Real estate is a PEOPLE business, and you better get used to that if you want to succeed. From buyers to sellers to bankers to contractors to realtors to mortgage brokers, on and on - you have to know how to talk to people. Learning to read a person at first is an art, but cultivating a relationship of continued business is a skill. I've used the same RE broker for over 8 years - he's not the only one I use, but he's certainly a good resource.

Having people at your fingertips is absolutely priceless. I call a VP / Prez at a bank, a person who has her own mortgage company, or a few other people who will put me at the top of their lists because of my reputation. Not bragging - just trying to tell you that if you want to have those kinds of contacts, seek them out and work with them. After a while they will believe in you and help you any way they can.

Can you imagine how cool it would be for a banker to call you and say that there's Mr. and Mrs. Jones who need to sell their house to get back on their feet today, and I know you can get it done. That's a very cool spot to be.....

 
I work with a lot of NE investors losing their rear ends in this market because they're apply they're expecting their NE history to be applicable in the south.
Can we here more about "Losing your shirt"?I'd think the best way to lose your shirt would be on a Pre-construction or anything else you are looking to flip fast.....

Would love to here a few real life losing scenarios and where they went wrong...
I'm seeing these NE and Florida investors pouring into the market because they can buy 3 or 4 investment properties for what one would cost in their area. For example, 3 bdrm / 2.5 ba, 1500 sf townhome for under $110. Of course they deal directly with the builder's agents thinking they're going to save a dime and this agent gives them some story about how the unit will rent for $1200 a month (probably what they are renting back their model for each month). After the purchase, they call me to rent the unit for them. The real market price is between $750 - $800 and the community is saturated with vacancies as the builder has sold numerous properties to investors. Most are eventually OK with this as they've done a 3 yr interest only arm that carries a total payment where they're only slightly out of pocket. Problem is, they're banking on the 20% appreciation they've seen in their home market. A year later when they ask for a market analysis, they're shcoked that the property hasn't appreciated a dime and no one would want it anyway as new units are selling for the same price. Moral of the story, not all areas appreciate, even "growth markets".
Good points.One of the things I like to do about once a year or so is meet with investors from around the country. That way I get a feel of what's going on out in the marketplace from state to state. So if happenstance would take me to another place or a huge deal gets put on the table I can have some sort of foundation to work on it (or pass it on to someone in that area).

Networking is very important if you are interested in doing RE as a career (I don't want to say full time as RE should NOT be a full time job if you do it right).

However, I do RE often and for a good number of hours a week because (1) I enjoy it and (2) I am good at it.

 
EVERYONE is at the Sheriff's sale and auctions. It used to be me and the bank on the courthouse steps. Now there are 50 "Investors" standing there thinking they are going to steal something.

Find the homes yourself. Find the property you want, head down to the City/County building, find the owner. Head over to the Tax office, and figure out their home address.

Sit in on the Neighborhood Code enforcement review board and listen to Landlord after Landlord plead his case how he is out of money and needs to sell. If it is on a street you are interested in, catch him as he walks out. He will give you the property just to stop the daily fines. (I actually had a duplex that I later had appraised at $90K given to me for $5,600.00 so it would no longer be in his name, and the Code Enforcement Arrest warrant would be lifted.)

Find an aggressive RE Agent, or better yet a BROKER to work with. Let EVERY RE Professional that you come into contact with know that you are looking for a deal, that you are capable and ready to buy if they put the right deal in your lap. That Agent is going to love not having to advertise, and many times you see things before they hit the MLS. Your offer is in place and working before the listing comes out.

Talk you your accountant. He knows which of his clients has Real Estate and is pushing 70 years old. Have him set up a meeting, or at least get you in contact. At this point in their life (70 or so) they property is paid off, and they are less likely to care what they receive to get rid of the headache as they just can't get around like they used to.

There are tons of ways to be the only guy in the game. You don't want to be one of 50 guys down at the Courthouse steps.
Nice tips there Mike. I'll have to try the one regarding the code enforcement.See - think out of the box and network. You only need to do a few RE deals a year to make decent / good $$.

 
I'd like to thank the contributors so far to this thread.I would also like to say that while I like to talk about RE investing, this is not solely about investing and feel free to ask about anything related to RE.Carry on.

 
I bought 14 properties in 2005 at under half market value after the rehab was complete.
Wow, great job.
That's an understatement! Mike makes Carleton Sheets look like a beginner!He buys 14 properties, rehabs them (all in one year), and more than doubles his investment. Even if the average property is only worth $150K, he's made more than a million bucks. :excited:

I really like the part where he scoffs at the 50 "Investors" standing on the courthouse steps thinking they are going to steal something, and then sits in on the Neighborhood Code enforcement review board and listens to a landlord plead his case how he is out of money and needs to sell. Then "Midas" Mike sits on the guy's street to catch him as he walks out. "He will give you the property just to stop the daily fines. I actually had a duplex that I later had appraised at $90K given to me for $5,600." :eek: Now who stole something?!

I've made a living the past few years as an investor, and this guy makes me feel like a loser. :bag:

Mike, you da man! :bow:

 
One of the things I like to do about once a year or so is meet with investors from around the country. That way I get a feel of what's going on out in the marketplace from state to state. So if happenstance would take me to another place or a huge deal gets put on the table I can have some sort of foundation to work on it (or pass it on to someone in that area).
Hopefully I will get there some day. That's way outside of my comfort zone right now. Maybe as I gain more experience I'll boarden my horizons. In the mean time I'll just have to work a little harder and gobble it up in small bites that I know I can digest.
 
I bought 14 properties in 2005 at under half market value after the rehab was complete.
Wow, great job.
That's an understatement! Mike makes Carleton Sheets look like a beginner!He buys 14 properties, rehabs them (all in one year), and more than doubles his investment. Even if the average property is only worth $150K, he's made more than a million bucks. :excited:

I really like the part where he scoffs at the 50 "Investors" standing on the courthouse steps thinking they are going to steal something, and then sits in on the Neighborhood Code enforcement review board and listens to a landlord plead his case how he is out of money and needs to sell. Then "Midas" Mike sits on the guy's street to catch him as he walks out. "He will give you the property just to stop the daily fines. I actually had a duplex that I later had appraised at $90K given to me for $5,600." :eek: Now who stole something?!

I've made a living the past few years as an investor, and this guy makes me feel like a loser. :bag:

Mike, you da man! :bow:
Well there's hope for the rest of us considering how bad he's at FF. :P Mike, you may want to change that early call of a sig you're wielding.

 
One of the things I like to do about once a year or so is meet with investors from around the country.  That way I get a feel of what's going on out in the marketplace from state to state.  So if happenstance would take me to another place or a huge deal gets put on the table I can have some sort of foundation to work on it (or pass it on to someone in that area).
Hopefully I will get there some day. That's way outside of my comfort zone right now. Maybe as I gain more experience I'll boarden my horizons. In the mean time I'll just have to work a little harder and gobble it up in small bites that I know I can digest.
You're a smart guy, you'll get there.
 
I live in Canada so you probably can't comment on my location but what are your thoughts on this in general.I have a 40 year old backsplit, 3 bedroom, around 1500 sq.ft with single car garage. Due to expanding family I'll be faced with the choice of moving or building a $10,000 renovation that would eliminate most of the garage to build a sunroom/office/4th bedroom on the main level.The garage is kinda small, fine for most cars but I can't really fit my mid-size SUV in it (I can but only if it is completely empty and then it is tight). I am going to keep the front garage door and first 10 feet or so for storage. Lawn mower, kids bikes etc.Am I going to be lowering the value of my house by getting rid of the garage?

 
One of the things I like to do about once a year or so is meet with investors from around the country.  That way I get a feel of what's going on out in the marketplace from state to state.  So if happenstance would take me to another place or a huge deal gets put on the table I can have some sort of foundation to work on it (or pass it on to someone in that area).
Hopefully I will get there some day. That's way outside of my comfort zone right now. Maybe as I gain more experience I'll boarden my horizons. In the mean time I'll just have to work a little harder and gobble it up in small bites that I know I can digest.
You're a smart guy, you'll get there.
Thanks for the vote of confidence...not sure of it's validity given who I drafted at 1.1 this last year. :bag:
 
One of the things I like to do about once a year or so is meet with investors from around the country.  That way I get a feel of what's going on out in the marketplace from state to state.  So if happenstance would take me to another place or a huge deal gets put on the table I can have some sort of foundation to work on it (or pass it on to someone in that area).
Hopefully I will get there some day. That's way outside of my comfort zone right now. Maybe as I gain more experience I'll boarden my horizons. In the mean time I'll just have to work a little harder and gobble it up in small bites that I know I can digest.
You're a smart guy, you'll get there.
Thanks for the vote of confidence...not sure of it's validity given who I drafted at 1.1 this last year. :bag:
Like I would have any room to talk about that. Although I did appreciate it.
 
I live in Canada so you probably can't comment on my location but what are your thoughts on this in general.

I have a 40 year old backsplit, 3 bedroom, around 1500 sq.ft with single car garage. Due to expanding family I'll be faced with the choice of moving or building a $10,000 renovation that would eliminate most of the garage to build a sunroom/office/4th bedroom on the main level.

The garage is kinda small, fine for most cars but I can't really fit my mid-size SUV in it (I can but only if it is completely empty and then it is tight).

I am going to keep the front garage door and first 10 feet or so for storage. Lawn mower, kids bikes etc.

Am I going to be lowering the value of my house by getting rid of the garage?
One question...do people in your area enjoy doing ice sculpture at 6am in the dark before work each day?
 
One question...do people in your area enjoy doing ice sculpture at 6am in the dark before work each day?
We don't get up for work that early, and we have had no snow at all this winter, but normally the answer is no they don't enjoy it but yes it is required. Don't know if it matters, but about 1/3 or more of the houses in our neighbourhood don't have garages.

 
I bought 14 properties in 2005 at under half market value after the rehab was complete.
Wow, great job.
That's an understatement! Mike makes Carleton Sheets look like a beginner!He buys 14 properties, rehabs them (all in one year), and more than doubles his investment. Even if the average property is only worth $150K, he's made more than a million bucks. :excited:

I really like the part where he scoffs at the 50 "Investors" standing on the courthouse steps thinking they are going to steal something, and then sits in on the Neighborhood Code enforcement review board and listens to a landlord plead his case how he is out of money and needs to sell. Then "Midas" Mike sits on the guy's street to catch him as he walks out. "He will give you the property just to stop the daily fines. I actually had a duplex that I later had appraised at $90K given to me for $5,600." :eek: Now who stole something?!

I've made a living the past few years as an investor, and this guy makes me feel like a loser. :bag:

Mike, you da man! :bow:
Got 3 last year from Code Enforcement.The one that sticks in my mind is the fellow that hadn't been able to rent the house, and allowed not cutting the grass for a $50.00 a pop fine and little things like some siding had slid by a lower window to rack up to $1,500 in Fines from Code. There was a year of back taxes, then fees for the collection agency and lawyers the city used to chase him down.

He's in front of the review board with his hardship and how he was afraid to even come down because the Court has a warrant for his arrest out for just plain failure to deal with this stuff.

I catch him as he is leaving, and just chatting ask him how bad he is under. He says a little over $4K and he can't get out. He'd give away the house if he could. I picked him up the next morning, drove him to my title company, we signed everything, the title company lawyer lifted the Warrant, and the house was mine in about 3 weeks.

It is a Duplex in a high end Historic neighborhood, where the guy he tried to sell it to on Land Contract put in a new Furnace (There was certain damage, remember the Land Contract problems)

Brought in an electrician to split everything out between the two units and run new wire (ALOT of it was already run) for $4k. Hooked up the Furnace down, and put in electric Baseboards upstairs. Now I only pay water.

Got it appraised at $90K with minimal investment.

Another Code Enforcement gem was a similar deal for $8.6K with a $5.6K rehab. Refinanced taking $50K out, leaving nice equity on the table.

I actually bought 18 Properties last year, 4 of them just didn't have the huge profit margin. Picked up a number of undeveloped lots as well.

I've picked up two properties so far in 2006.

*******

However, I know MY market, and I am not equipped to do justice to anyone else's and Bass is MUCH stronger in the Rental Market than I am. All around, I am sure Jeff much stronger at this than I am, with more to share. I just know my Market.

 
I'd like to thank the contributors so far to this thread.

I would also like to say that while I like to talk about RE investing, this is not solely about investing and feel free to ask about anything related to RE.

Carry on.
All right, I've got one for ya...My current house was my starter house. I've been here for almost 6 years now, and I have seen tremendous appreciation - I bought just before the run-up here in south FL. I have about 2x equity vs mortgate, a vary favorable rate, and relatively low tax, as the house value was calculated before the mad appreciation. I pay quite a bit more into the P than I do into the I on my monthly statements these days...things are great as far as that all goes.

My wife and I are now thinking about moving somewhere - Colorado, maybe, timeline is 2007. Because I feel that I have such a good thing going with this house, I am thinking aobut renting it. What are the pitfalls here? a couple of specific questions:

1. how do you find out what the market value is to rent a place?

2. what are the consequences of living 2000 miles from your rental property?

3. how to pay for new house - better to have low down payment, sell this house & forget abour renting, or perhaps home equity loan to finance larger down payment?

any other tips/tricks related?

Thanks, it's been very interesting reading all of this. It's nice to get opinions from industry insiders who are not trying to sell me anytihng immediately; much appreciated.

 
My current house was my starter house. I've been here for almost 6 years now, and I have seen tremendous appreciation - I bought just before the run-up here in south FL. I have about 2x equity vs mortgate, a vary favorable rate, and relatively low tax, as the house value was calculated before the mad appreciation. I pay quite a bit more into the P than I do into the I on my monthly statements these days...things are great as far as that all goes.

My wife and I are now thinking about moving somewhere - Colorado, maybe, timeline is 2007. Because I feel that I have such a good thing going with this house, I am thinking aobut renting it. What are the pitfalls here? a couple of specific questions:

1. how do you find out what the market value is to rent a place?

2. what are the consequences of living 2000 miles from your rental property?

3. how to pay for new house - better to have low down payment, sell this house & forget abour renting, or perhaps home equity loan to finance larger down payment?

any other tips/tricks related?

Thanks, it's been very interesting reading all of this. It's nice to get opinions from industry insiders who are not trying to sell me anytihng immediately; much appreciated.
1. Newspaper and calling a couple of the local property management firms to give you a market analysis.2. Biased answer as I'm in the business, but hire a property manager to deal with it. It should cost you less that the price of one round class trip back from CO.

3. Not going to address the overall question, but pose some questions to you. What's you overall equity in the house? What would that money do for you in other investments? What kind of rent will you get? What will be the annual management and repair costs? Vacancy rate you can expect? What kind of appreciation do you anticipate? Is this appreciation better then what you could do elsewhere less exit/entry expenses?

Answer those questions to the best of your ability and you can run the numbers to get the answer. Might want to do a downside and upside analysis along with that, especially to see if you can stomach the downside. I'm not a tax advisor so don't take this as the law, but there's a capital gains exclusion if you've live in the house 2 of the last 5 years, although I'm not sure if that also includes depreciation. Just be aware of the windows and the associated tax consequences.

 
I live in Canada so you probably can't comment on my location but what are your thoughts on this in general.

I have a 40 year old backsplit, 3 bedroom, around 1500 sq.ft with single car garage. Due to expanding family I'll be faced with the choice of moving or building a $10,000 renovation that would eliminate most of the garage to build a sunroom/office/4th bedroom on the main level.

The garage is kinda small, fine for most cars but I can't really fit my mid-size SUV in it (I can but only if it is completely empty and then it is tight).

I am going to keep the front garage door and first 10 feet or so for storage. Lawn mower, kids bikes etc.

Am I going to be lowering the value of my house by getting rid of the garage?
I am south of the Great lakes by a hundred or so miles. Here, people hate the winter, and a Garage is worth it's weight in gold.Just my best guess, but with Canadian Winters, I wouldn't take away a garage unless it was to build a bigger one.

 
One question...do people in your area enjoy doing ice sculpture at 6am in the dark before work each day?
We don't get up for work that early, and we have had no snow at all this winter, but normally the answer is no they don't enjoy it but yes it is required. Don't know if it matters, but about 1/3 or more of the houses in our neighbourhood don't have garages.
Then I certainly wouldn't lose it. Talk to an appraiser or Broker before you do anything. Better yet, talk to a PM, and get started.
 
One question...do people in your area enjoy doing ice sculpture at 6am in the dark before work each day?
We don't get up for work that early, and we have had no snow at all this winter, but normally the answer is no they don't enjoy it but yes it is required. Don't know if it matters, but about 1/3 or more of the houses in our neighbourhood don't have garages.
I think you see what I was getting at. I would think a garage would be an asset, but then I'm a cold weather weeney from the south. Hardy Candians may be indifferent to that tortue / pleasure. You're probably better equipped to answer that question then most of us.Sneaky way to get the answer...call three agents and tell them you're thinking about selling. While you're "interviewing" them, how much finishing the garage would add to the value of the property. :ph34r:

 
Then I certainly wouldn't lose it. Talk to an appraiser or Broker before you do anything. Better yet, talk to a PM, and get started.
Thx. I'll definitely be talking to someone here first, just looking for as many opinions as possible.
 
Jeff, thanks for doing this. Do you sell homes on contract? I have seen some of these deals done and they look sweet. I have a modest 3BR/2BATH and I don't have much equity. If I'm able to upgrade in a couple of years, I might like to sell this one on contract.

The way I understand it is that the buyer often does not complete the sale. You keep his down payment and monthly payments. I also understand that you structure the deal so that if he does complete the sale after the allotted time, you still do fine. Is my basic understanding correct? What more should I know?
That the damage to your property from the Failed Land Contract/Tenant will be extensive.
Is this also true of renters? Are land contract buyers, who put down 2-5% WORSE?
I almost forgot: Better for the seller than renting because your tenant takes better care of the property because they are working towards owning it.
From my experience, this is an Incorrect statement.
I'm VERY thankful for all the good information. I may never do anything with it, but it's great stuff. I get that Mike Anderson isn't in favor of the land contract, since he said so in 2 of his 5 consecutive posts. (=Let me ask this though...someone mentioned something to the effect of this being a crooked way to sell a home. I've never known anyone to sell a home this way. I do know TWO friends that have bought a home on contract, and both seem to be thrilled. One of them improved his situation enough in 6 months to execute the contract. Isn't this an example of a win-win, or am I missing something? I can see an opportunity for unsrupulous sellers to stack the deck against unsuspecting buyers, but there are bad apples in every business, right?

 
I think you see what I was getting at. I would think a garage would be an asset, but then I'm a cold weather weeney from the south. Hardy Candians may be indifferent to that tortue / pleasure. You're probably better equipped to answer that question then most of us.

Sneaky way to get the answer...call three agents and tell them you're thinking about selling. While you're "interviewing" them, how much finishing the garage would add to the value of the property. :ph34r:
:thumbup:
 
Jeff, thanks for doing this. Do you sell homes on contract?  I have seen some of these deals done and they look sweet.  I have a modest 3BR/2BATH and I don't have much equity.  If I'm able to upgrade in a couple of years, I might like to sell this one on contract. 

The way I understand it is that the buyer often does not complete the sale.  You keep his down payment and monthly payments.  I also understand that you structure the deal so that if he does complete the sale after the allotted time, you still do fine.  Is my basic understanding correct?  What more should I know?
That the damage to your property from the Failed Land Contract/Tenant will be extensive.
Is this also true of renters? Are land contract buyers, who put down 2-5% WORSE?
I almost forgot:  Better for the seller than renting because your tenant takes better care of the property because they are working towards owning it.
From my experience, this is an Incorrect statement.
I'm VERY thankful for all the good information. I may never do anything with it, but it's great stuff. I get that Mike Anderson isn't in favor of the land contract, since he said so in 2 of his 5 consecutive posts. (=Let me ask this though...someone mentioned something to the effect of this being a crooked way to sell a home. I've never known anyone to sell a home this way. I do know TWO friends that have bought a home on contract, and both seem to be thrilled. One of them improved his situation enough in 6 months to execute the contract. Isn't this an example of a win-win, or am I missing something? I can see an opportunity for unsrupulous sellers to stack the deck against unsuspecting buyers, but there are bad apples in every business, right?
There are occasions where it's a win-win. If I was advising a buyer I would ask this question...Why do you only want to look at small population of homes and likely pay a premium when you can wait 6 months and look at the entire population on homes governed by the going market? If the answer is valid...perfect home for me, priced fairly, and the market is appreciating quickly...then go for it.Bad apples are every where. There are plenty of ways to be a legal bad apple, that's just an ethically question each person has to ask themselves. Buyer beware or do onto others? Each has their own legitimate answer to this question.

 
As you can see, I love talking real estate....I'm outta here and will cease hijacking Jeff's thread for a while.

 
I'd like to thank the contributors so far to this thread.

I would also like to say that while I like to talk about RE investing, this is not solely about investing and feel free to ask about anything related to RE.

Carry on.
All right, I've got one for ya...My current house was my starter house. I've been here for almost 6 years now, and I have seen tremendous appreciation - I bought just before the run-up here in south FL. I have about 2x equity vs mortgage, a vary favorable rate, and relatively low tax, as the house value was calculated before the mad appreciation. I pay quite a bit more into the P than I do into the I on my monthly statements these days...things are great as far as that all goes.

My wife and I are now thinking about moving somewhere - Colorado, maybe, time line is 2007. Because I feel that I have such a good thing going with this house, I am thinking about renting it. What are the pitfalls here? a couple of specific questions:

1. how do you find out what the market value is to rent a place?

2. what are the consequences of living 2000 miles from your rental property?

3. how to pay for new house - better to have low down payment, sell this house & forget arbor renting, or perhaps home equity loan to finance larger down payment?

any other tips/tricks related?

Thanks, it's been very interesting reading all of this. It's nice to get opinions from industry insiders who are not trying to sell me anything immediately; much appreciated.
FIRST, you need to interview and hire a good PM (Property Manager) if you are even going to consider it. You CANNOT manage a property yourself from 2,000 miles away. PERIODYou can't be at eviction court on Friday, you can't dive over and grab the rent if needed, you can't watch your property, you can't do anything from 2K miles away.

As with anything else, there are GREAT PMs that care for their clients homes, and there are worthless piles of.... Get recommendations, interview, the works.

That said, no renter is going to treat your home as you would. It will be in worse condition. Does this house have any sentimental value at all. I can tell you that if this was the first house with your wife, or where you conceived junior, or.... You know your wife. Will she be completely crushed to see it's state 5 years from now when you are in FL to check on things?

NEVER rent out a home you care about. It will be heartbreaking.

I Don't know the South FL market, and you are in front of the curve. However, generally in hot markets like FL and CA the Rents have not kept pace with the costs. Do some research and figure out what rents are.

You can do that by talking with a good PM but I just grab the Sunday paper, look for things that seem about like what I have, call them, ask questions, confirm you have similar features. If it's the same in features and location, it's a good starting point. Basically act like an appraiser and do the research. Then watch the paper, and see how fast the Add disappears. If the Add is gone next week, it's rented, and was either priced at or below market. If the add lingers for months, it's too high.

If rents can't keep up with expenses, combined with the wear and tear on the place, it could likely be the best to cash out your equity, and buy a duplex for the sole purpose of renting out at your new home town.

Do take into account that with turnover you should plan on 11 months of rents at best. The PM you hire could have countless other clients, and you are at the bottom of the priority list with your one rental and end up with multiple months of Vacancy on a yearly basis. Can you go 5 months without income? Only you can answer that.

Only real advantage I see to using it as a rental is that all your future "Vacations" err, checking on your house in South FL will be Tax deductible.

Way too many disadvantages for my taste being that far away.



On this board, Bass is DEFINITELY the one you want to consult with on this subject. He is absolutely the expert in this matter.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Apparently I can't walk away for too long from MY thread :)Just kidding - Bass and Mike, you're doing great work here.... I'll try and catch up.

 
I bought 14 properties in 2005 at under half market value after the rehab was complete.
Wow, great job.
That's an understatement! Mike makes Carleton Sheets look like a beginner!He buys 14 properties, rehabs them (all in one year), and more than doubles his investment. Even if the average property is only worth $150K, he's made more than a million bucks. :excited:

I really like the part where he scoffs at the 50 "Investors" standing on the courthouse steps thinking they are going to steal something, and then sits in on the Neighborhood Code enforcement review board and listens to a landlord plead his case how he is out of money and needs to sell. Then "Midas" Mike sits on the guy's street to catch him as he walks out. "He will give you the property just to stop the daily fines. I actually had a duplex that I later had appraised at $90K given to me for $5,600." :eek: Now who stole something?!

I've made a living the past few years as an investor, and this guy makes me feel like a loser. :bag:

Mike, you da man! :bow:
Agreed - 14 is a good number. He must love it because averaging over 1 a month can start to wear on you.About 1 a month is good pace, possibly even aggressive. Keep in mind while you're working on a property (watching others work on it, that is), you're looking at a few that are in progress, and also looking for the next deal AND closing on a sale. Can keep you busy.

 
I bought 14 properties in 2005 at under half market value after the rehab was complete.
Wow, great job.
That's an understatement! Mike makes Carleton Sheets look like a beginner!He buys 14 properties, rehabs them (all in one year), and more than doubles his investment. Even if the average property is only worth $150K, he's made more than a million bucks. :excited:

I really like the part where he scoffs at the 50 "Investors" standing on the courthouse steps thinking they are going to steal something, and then sits in on the Neighborhood Code enforcement review board and listens to a landlord plead his case how he is out of money and needs to sell. Then "Midas" Mike sits on the guy's street to catch him as he walks out. "He will give you the property just to stop the daily fines. I actually had a duplex that I later had appraised at $90K given to me for $5,600." :eek: Now who stole something?!

I've made a living the past few years as an investor, and this guy makes me feel like a loser. :bag:

Mike, you da man! :bow:
Got 3 last year from Code Enforcement.The one that sticks in my mind is the fellow that hadn't been able to rent the house, and allowed not cutting the grass for a $50.00 a pop fine and little things like some siding had slid by a lower window to rack up to $1,500 in Fines from Code. There was a year of back taxes, then fees for the collection agency and lawyers the city used to chase him down.

He's in front of the review board with his hardship and how he was afraid to even come down because the Court has a warrant for his arrest out for just plain failure to deal with this stuff.

I catch him as he is leaving, and just chatting ask him how bad he is under. He says a little over $4K and he can't get out. He'd give away the house if he could. I picked him up the next morning, drove him to my title company, we signed everything, the title company lawyer lifted the Warrant, and the house was mine in about 3 weeks.

It is a Duplex in a high end Historic neighborhood, where the guy he tried to sell it to on Land Contract put in a new Furnace (There was certain damage, remember the Land Contract problems)

Brought in an electrician to split everything out between the two units and run new wire (ALOT of it was already run) for $4k. Hooked up the Furnace down, and put in electric Baseboards upstairs. Now I only pay water.

Got it appraised at $90K with minimal investment.

Another Code Enforcement gem was a similar deal for $8.6K with a $5.6K rehab. Refinanced taking $50K out, leaving nice equity on the table.

I actually bought 18 Properties last year, 4 of them just didn't have the huge profit margin. Picked up a number of undeveloped lots as well.

I've picked up two properties so far in 2006.

*******

However, I know MY market, and I am not equipped to do justice to anyone else's and Bass is MUCH stronger in the Rental Market than I am. All around, I am sure Jeff much stronger at this than I am, with more to share. I just know my Market.
Thanks Mike. I don't know EVERY market - no one can. Pick SOME markets, learn them well, and work them.You'll eventually broaden your horizons.

Residental rehabs (and resales) are a VERY LOCAL market. You have to know what the climate is like locally, as well as the rehab costs.

Buying nationally is much easier if it is a development or an income property (office, commercial, mobile home park, mall, etc.). Then it's just math.

 
I live in Canada so you probably can't comment on my location but what are your thoughts on this in general.

I have a 40 year old backsplit, 3 bedroom, around 1500 sq.ft with single car garage. Due to expanding family I'll be faced with the choice of moving or building a $10,000 renovation that would eliminate most of the garage to build a sunroom/office/4th bedroom on the main level.

The garage is kinda small, fine for most cars but I can't really fit my mid-size SUV in it (I can but only if it is completely empty and then it is tight).

I am going to keep the front garage door and first 10 feet or so for storage. Lawn mower, kids bikes etc.

Am I going to be lowering the value of my house by getting rid of the garage?
I am south of the Great lakes by a hundred or so miles. Here, people hate the winter, and a Garage is worth it's weight in gold.Just my best guess, but with Canadian Winters, I wouldn't take away a garage unless it was to build a bigger one.
One question...do people in your area enjoy doing ice sculpture at 6am in the dark before work each day?
We don't get up for work that early, and we have had no snow at all this winter, but normally the answer is no they don't enjoy it but yes it is required. Don't know if it matters, but about 1/3 or more of the houses in our neighbourhood don't have garages.
Then I certainly wouldn't lose it. Talk to an appraiser or Broker before you do anything. Better yet, talk to a PM, and get started.
One question...do people in your area enjoy doing ice sculpture at 6am in the dark before work each day?
We don't get up for work that early, and we have had no snow at all this winter, but normally the answer is no they don't enjoy it but yes it is required. Don't know if it matters, but about 1/3 or more of the houses in our neighbourhood don't have garages.
I think you see what I was getting at. I would think a garage would be an asset, but then I'm a cold weather weeney from the south. Hardy Candians may be indifferent to that tortue / pleasure. You're probably better equipped to answer that question then most of us.Sneaky way to get the answer...call three agents and tell them you're thinking about selling. While you're "interviewing" them, how much finishing the garage would add to the value of the property. :ph34r:
All very good answers here. I agree with the calls to the realtors. No harm no foul there. I'd do it.
 
All right, I've got one for ya...

My current house was my starter house. I've been here for almost 6 years now, and I have seen tremendous appreciation - I bought just before the run-up here in south FL. I have about 2x equity vs mortgage, a vary favorable rate, and relatively low tax, as the house value was calculated before the mad appreciation. I pay quite a bit more into the P than I do into the I on my monthly statements these days...things are great as far as that all goes.

My wife and I are now thinking about moving somewhere - Colorado, maybe, time line is 2007. Because I feel that I have such a good thing going with this house, I am thinking about renting it. What are the pitfalls here? a couple of specific questions:

1. how do you find out what the market value is to rent a place?

2. what are the consequences of living 2000 miles from your rental property?

3. how to pay for new house - better to have low down payment, sell this house & forget arbor renting, or perhaps home equity loan to finance larger down payment?

any other tips/tricks related?
Thanks, it's been very interesting reading all of this. It's nice to get opinions from industry insiders who are not trying to sell me anything immediately; much appreciated.
But if you act right now...... :)
FIRST, you need to interview and hire a good PM (Property Manager) if you are even going to consider it. You CANNOT manage a property yourself from 2,000 miles away. PERIOD

You can't be at eviction court on Friday, you can't dive over and grab the rent if needed, you can't watch your property, you can't do anything from 2K miles away.

As with anything else, there are GREAT PMs that care for their clients homes, and there are worthless piles of.... Get recommendations, interview, the works.

That said, no renter is going to treat your home as you would. It will be in worse condition. Does this house have any sentimental value at all. I can tell you that if this was the first house with your wife, or where you conceived junior, or.... You know your wife. Will she be completely crushed to see it's state 5 years from now when you are in FL to check on things?

NEVER rent out a home you care about. It will be heartbreaking.

I Don't know the South FL market, and you are in front of the curve. However, generally in hot markets like FL and CA the Rents have not kept pace with the costs. Do some research and figure out what rents are.

You can do that by talking with a good PM but I just grab the Sunday paper, look for things that seem about like what I have, call them, ask questions, confirm you have similar features. If it's the same in features and location, it's a good starting point. Basically act like an appraiser and do the research. Then watch the paper, and see how fast the Add disappears. If the Add is gone next week, it's rented, and was either priced at or below market. If the add lingers for months, it's too high.

If rents can't keep up with expenses, combined with the wear and tear on the place, it could likely be the best to cash out your equity, and buy a duplex for the sole purpose of renting out at your new home town.

Do take into account that with turnover you should plan on 11 months of rents at best. The PM you hire could have countless other clients, and you are at the bottom of the priority list with your one rental and end up with multiple months of Vacancy on a yearly basis. Can you go 5 months without income? Only you can answer that.

Only real advantage I see to using it as a rental is that all your future "Vacations" err, checking on your house in South FL will be Tax deductible.

Way too many disadvantages for my taste being that far away.



On this board, Bass is DEFINITELY the one you want to consult with on this subject. He is absolutely the expert in this matter.
Mike is spot on with his advice.I'll add to this regarding the financing, because I'm a real good numbers guy (kinda leads into the FF thing :) ).

Since I don't know the value of your house, I'm going to guess a number. Miami, say $500K?

Let's say you owe $200K (you said about 2x) at about 6% and you can rent the place out for $3600 a month.

All guesses, but I'll explain as I go. Pay close attention, they'll be a quiz :) .

Step 1. Do as Mike said and check the paper and with PMs as to what the place will rent for. That should reaffirm my guess at $3600.

Step 2. Get a calculator and take 75% of the monthly rent. Now let's call this number your "effective rent". In my example, this is $2700.

Step 3. Subtract your current mortgage payment from the effective rent. Your payment, if it includes taxes and insurance, is about $1500 I'd guess. Maybe a little less, but let's go with it. In the continuing example, that's $1200 ($2700 - $1500).

Step 4. You took the $3600 rent x 75% to get $2700 effective rent, and now you subtracted off the $1500 mortgage payment. What's the $1200? That is the amount you can afford in a new second mortgage.

Why do I care about this number? Well, if you want to rent the property out AND have $$ to go buy a new place, here is your source of funds. The $1200 at 7.5% for 30 years will be about $170K. So you can get a second mortgage for $170K, the property will rent out and be covered enough to pay for itself, and you have $170K at a good rate that is secured by real estate, so it is tax deductible.

Yes, you'll have to deal with the property being owned / rented by someone else. But you have big time tax advantages (income, depreciation of the house, equity growth, appreciation of the asset, and leverage). That is I.D.E.A.L. - so you can remember it by that acronym.

You can also retire back to Florida to the house (just have someone go and clean it up for you before you go back). Yes you may have to repair it later on, but the $$ you made along the way would likely offset any potential issues.

One last thought - can it be a seasonal rental? Renting it out furnished or by month-to-month or even timeshare style (weekly) may yield more $$. Talk to the PM. You may even be able to take a week or two yourself (I believe the limit is 14 days for a rental property that you can use it yourself).

Hope that all helps.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
All right, I've got one for ya...

My current house was my starter house.  I've been here for almost 6 years now, and I have seen tremendous appreciation - I bought just before the run-up here in south FL.  I have about 2x equity vs mortgage, a vary favorable rate, and relatively low tax, as the house value was calculated before the mad appreciation.  I pay quite a bit more into the P than I do into the I on my monthly statements these days...things are great as far as that all goes.

My wife and I are now thinking about moving somewhere - Colorado, maybe, time line is 2007.  Because I feel that I have such a good thing going with this house, I am thinking about renting it.  What are the pitfalls here?  a couple of specific questions:

1. how do you find out what the market value is to rent a place?

2. what are the consequences of living 2000 miles from your rental property?

3. how to pay for new house - better to have low down payment, sell this house & forget arbor renting, or perhaps home equity loan to finance larger down payment?

any other tips/tricks related?
Thanks, it's been very interesting reading all of this.  It's nice to get opinions from industry insiders who are not trying to sell me anything immediately; much appreciated.
But if you act right now...... :)
FIRST, you need to interview and hire a good PM (Property Manager) if you are even going to consider it.  You CANNOT manage a property yourself from 2,000 miles away.  PERIOD

You can't be at eviction court on Friday, you can't dive over and grab the rent if needed, you can't watch your property, you can't do anything from 2K miles away.

As with anything else, there are GREAT PMs that care for their clients homes, and there are worthless piles of....  Get recommendations, interview, the works.

That said, no renter is going to treat your home as you would.  It will be in worse condition.  Does this house have any sentimental value at all.  I can tell you that if this was the first house with your wife, or where you conceived junior, or....  You know your wife.  Will she be completely crushed to see it's state 5 years from now when you are in FL to check on things?

NEVER rent out a home you care about.  It will be heartbreaking.

I Don't know the South FL market, and you are in front of the curve.  However, generally in hot markets like FL and CA the Rents have not kept pace with the costs.  Do some research and figure out what rents are. 

You can do that by talking with a good PM but I just grab the Sunday paper, look for things that seem about like what I have, call them, ask questions, confirm you have similar features.  If it's the same in features and location, it's a good starting point.  Basically act like an appraiser and do the research.  Then watch the paper, and see how fast the Add disappears.  If the Add is gone next week, it's rented, and was either priced at or below market.  If the add lingers for months, it's too high.

If rents can't keep up with expenses, combined with the wear and tear on the place, it could likely be the best to cash out your equity, and buy a duplex for the sole purpose of renting out at your new home town.

Do take into account that with turnover you should plan on 11 months of rents at best.  The PM you hire could have countless other clients, and you are at the bottom of the priority list with your one rental and end up with multiple months of Vacancy on a yearly basis.  Can you go 5 months without income?  Only you can answer that.

Only real advantage I see to using it as a rental is that all your future "Vacations" err, checking on your house in South FL will be Tax deductible.

Way too many disadvantages for my taste being that far away.



On this board, Bass is DEFINITELY the one you want to consult with on this subject.  He is absolutely the expert in this matter.
Mike is spot on with his advice.I'll add to this regarding the financing, because I'm a real good numbers guy (kinda leads into the FF thing :) ).

Since I don't know the value of your house, I'm going to guess a number. Miami, say $500K?

Let's say you owe $200K (you said about 2x) at about 6% and you can rent the place out for $3600 a month.

All guesses, but I'll explain as I go. Pay close attention, they'll be a quiz :) .

Step 1. Do as Mike said and check the paper and with PMs as to what the place will rent for. That should reaffirm my guess at $3600.

Step 2. Get a calculator and take 75% of the monthly rent. Now let's call this number your "effective rent". In my example, this is $2700.

Step 3. Subtract your current mortgage payment from the effective rent. Your payment, if it includes taxes and insurance, is about $1500 I'd guess. Maybe a little less, but let's go with it. In the continuing example, that's $1200 ($2700 - $1500).

Step 4. You took the $3600 rent x 75% to get $2700 effective rent, and now you subtracted off the $1500 mortgage payment. What's the $1200? That is the amount you can afford in a new second mortgage.

Why do I care about this number? Well, if you want to rent the property out AND have $$ to go buy a new place, here is your source of funds. The $1200 at 7.5% for 30 years will be about $170K. So you can get a second mortgage for $170K, the property will rent out and be covered enough to pay for itself, and you have $170K at a good rate that is secured by real estate, so it is tax deductible.

Yes, you'll have to deal with the property being owned / rented by someone else. But you have big time tax advantages (income, depreciation of the house, equity growth, appreciation of the asset, and leverage). That is I.D.E.A.L. - so you can remember it by that acronym.

You can also retire back to Florida to the house (just have someone go and clean it up for you before you go back). Yes you may have to repair it later on, but the $$ you made along the way would likely offset any potential issues.

One last thought - can it be a seasonal rental? Renting it out furnished or by month-to-month or even timeshare style (weekly) may yield more $$. Talk to the PM. You may even be able to take a week or two yourself (I believe the limit is 14 days for a rental property that you can use it yourself).

Hope that all helps.
Jeff and mike, thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, the situation isn't quite as rosy as Jeff makes it out. I just did a quick search on comparable rentals in Palm Beach county and they seem to be between $1500 - $2000. Granted, I really need to do more homework to make sure that they are comparable, but every house and situation is different. My monthy payments including tax and insurance come to around $1400 - this is on a 15 year fixed rate (I wish I did a 30 yr fixed and put the surplus into an interest bearing account, but that is a different conservation). so, with the 25% overage that Jeff recomends, that means I need to be able to rent it out for over $1800, which is doable.

that being said, is it worth the hassles and headache to keep a property and rent it out, assuming that rental income will just cover the payment of the property + approx 25%? Assume I could buy the new house w/o using equity from this one - would this be the better way to go?

Or, would it be better to sell this house and roll the equity into the new house, resulting in either lower payments or a bigger house?

 
I bought my current house last May or so. This property is about 12 years old and the prior owners had done no improvement. Since then we have completely renovated the kitchen, floor to ceiling, with top of the line stuff. Additionally we have almost completed finishing the basement, which will add about 35% to the square footage of the house. If I say so, the basement will end up being amazing. Additionally, we managed to get the house for what was a bargain for the neighborhood...probably about 10% less than what would have been a very fair price. I would like to get out from having two mortgages, as the home equity line of credit portion has increased more than a point in the less than a year we have been here. With the work we have done, should I be able to refi into one mortgage without PMI? If so, what steps would I have to take?

 
I bought my current house last May or so. This property is about 12 years old and the prior owners had done no improvement. Since then we have completely renovated the kitchen, floor to ceiling, with top of the line stuff. Additionally we have almost completed finishing the basement, which will add about 35% to the square footage of the house. If I say so, the basement will end up being amazing. Additionally, we managed to get the house for what was a bargain for the neighborhood...probably about 10% less than what would have been a very fair price.

I would like to get out from having two mortgages, as the home equity line of credit portion has increased more than a point in the less than a year we have been here. With the work we have done, should I be able to refi into one mortgage without PMI? If so, what steps would I have to take?
Since you've been in the house for 12 years, have you kept the original first mortgage?If so you're down to 18 years left, but the rate probably stinks (weren't great back in the early 90s).

Refinance the whole house. Appraisal comes cheap, relatively speaking. ask for a GFE (good faith estimate) to how much a refi would cost, and divide that number by the monthly savings you'd have if you refinance.

PMI should disappear if you are 80% loan-to-value (LTV) or under.

If you just want to pay the house off, go ahead and refi only what you owe. I would probably take advantage of low rates myself and take (at least) 80% out of the house - or at the very least put a home equity line of credit (HELOC) on the house. That's basically a credit line you can write a check against should you feel the need. Virtual cash.

Go to realtor.com and type in your zip code. That's a start to find out what your house may be worth. homegain.com or domania.com also work.

Someone with a bit more aggression in the market would take the $$ from the house and buy another house, but that's just me :) .

 
Jeff and mike, thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, the situation isn't quite as rosy as Jeff makes it out. I just did a quick search on comparable rentals in Palm Beach county and they seem to be between $1500 - $2000. Granted, I really need to do more homework to make sure that they are comparable, but every house and situation is different.

My monthy payments including tax and insurance come to around $1400 - this is on a 15 year fixed rate (I wish I did a 30 yr fixed and put the surplus into an interest bearing account, but that is a different conservation). so, with the 25% overage that Jeff recomends, that means I need to be able to rent it out for over $1800, which is doable.

that being said, is it worth the hassles and headache to keep a property and rent it out, assuming that rental income will just cover the payment of the property + approx 25%? Assume I could buy the new house w/o using equity from this one - would this be the better way to go?

Or, would it be better to sell this house and roll the equity into the new house, resulting in either lower payments or a bigger house?
That's a classic question - buy and hold, rent out or just "flip"?First, you can rent it out AND pull cash out. A 30-year interest only option exists - and the note wouldn't be too much a % of the equity, so it might be worth it.

So you might be able to squeeze a few $100 out a month for cash flow - but if you have that much equity, I'd cash out. "A quick nickel is worth more than a slow dime". Take $250K from a sale and move on. If you want a rental property then, go and buy one.

I don't like the idea of paying down a mortgage more than I have to - banks are comfortable now with 80-90% financing, so why not use the money elsewhere? Grow your $$ faster than paying down the mortgage and stay more liquid.

I offer private investors double-digit interest if they partner / invest with me, just as an example. There are non-conforming lenders (private lenders, hard money lenders) out there that make 15-20% on their $$ a year.

The point is, let your new found equity / windfall $$ work for you. Paying down a tax writeoff in the single digit interest rates doesn't make much sense.

 
Go to realtor.com and type in your zip code. That's a start to find out what your house may be worth. homegain.com or domania.com also work.
Man those prices on Domania.com sound out of whack and a lot are old... Homegain was better but, stil lnot great.I know more homes sold than that - I wish I could find out How much ALL the homes sold for.....
 
does your local tax collector have a web-page? many do. ours has a map where you can get owner info, price purchased for, records of all sales, etc...even tied in with sat imagery...pretty cool.

just don't look me up.

 
I bought my current house last May or so.  This property is about 12 years old and the prior owners had done no improvement.  Since then we have completely renovated the kitchen, floor to ceiling, with top of the line stuff.  Additionally we have almost completed finishing the basement, which will add about 35% to the square footage of the house.  If I say so, the basement will end up being amazing.  Additionally, we managed to get the house for what was a bargain for the neighborhood...probably about 10% less than what would have been a very fair price. 

I would like to get out from having two mortgages, as the home equity line of credit portion has increased more than a point in the less than a year we have been here.  With the work we have done, should I be able to refi into one mortgage without PMI?  If so, what steps would I have to take?
Since you've been in the house for 12 years, have you kept the original first mortgage?If so you're down to 18 years left, but the rate probably stinks (weren't great back in the early 90s).

Refinance the whole house. Appraisal comes cheap, relatively speaking. ask for a GFE (good faith estimate) to how much a refi would cost, and divide that number by the monthly savings you'd have if you refinance.

PMI should disappear if you are 80% loan-to-value (LTV) or under.

If you just want to pay the house off, go ahead and refi only what you owe. I would probably take advantage of low rates myself and take (at least) 80% out of the house - or at the very least put a home equity line of credit (HELOC) on the house. That's basically a credit line you can write a check against should you feel the need. Virtual cash.

Go to realtor.com and type in your zip code. That's a start to find out what your house may be worth. homegain.com or domania.com also work.

Someone with a bit more aggression in the market would take the $$ from the house and buy another house, but that's just me :) .
Actually, I have been in the house less than a year, but the house is a year old. That is my quandary. Am I right in assuming that I should have the house appraised, and will my improvements be factored in? At that point, I assume that as long as I am at 80% equity of the newly assessed amount, doing the refi would probably make sense (assuming my fixed rate doesn't change). Is my logic right here?
 
I've seen a couple of posts on finishing basements to gain greater Value. I don't know your Market, but here, a Finished basement will not be counted as Value by the Appraiser if you didn't pull permits on it.I know of a family that finished out their basement, and gained nothing out of it, infact, it made the home harder to sell. When they went to get it inspected after the fact to get rid of the stigma, they failed as Code here it is 7.5 feet from the highest part of the floor to the lowest part of the Ceiling. They had Heating runs that got finished in that reduced the Ceiling height to just under 7 feet in a number of spots. Ended up having to rework tons of the Ceiling calling in all manner of pros as they needed permits for absolutely everything at this point. And the entire reason they didn't pull permits in the first place was that the contractor didn't want the "paperwork", and told them it would be cheaper without pulling permits. They jumped at the chance to save. There are a number of times I hate permits (When I am doing the work, it's a pain), if someone else is doing the work, get them EVERY TIME.Not trying to do a Chicken little, but make sure to check everything out if you are counting on that Finished basement for Value.

 
I've seen a couple of posts on finishing basements to gain greater Value. I don't know your Market, but here, a Finished basement will not be counted as Value by the Appraiser if you didn't pull permits on it.

I know of a family that finished out their basement, and gained nothing out of it, infact, it made the home harder to sell. When they went to get it inspected after the fact to get rid of the stigma, they failed as Code here it is 7.5 feet from the highest part of the floor to the lowest part of the Ceiling. They had Heating runs that got finished in that reduced the Ceiling height to just under 7 feet in a number of spots. Ended up having to rework tons of the Ceiling calling in all manner of pros as they needed permits for absolutely everything at this point. And the entire reason they didn't pull permits in the first place was that the contractor didn't want the "paperwork", and told them it would be cheaper without pulling permits. They jumped at the chance to save. There are a number of times I hate permits (When I am doing the work, it's a pain), if someone else is doing the work, get them EVERY TIME.

Not trying to do a Chicken little, but make sure to check everything out if you are counting on that Finished basement for Value.
Another good point from Mike. Basements and garages (or carports) value vary greatly - another reason to know your market, not just any market.Swimming pools are another one. Some people love 'em, others hate them (usually with small kids). Fenced yards too - some love privacy, some like open spaces.

As for permits - it is a pain in the ### sometimes and can cost you (I have a job stalled due to one right now), but in the end you'll know that you did what you were supposed to do and can feel good about showing the end buyer the permits. Plus you know code will be up to snuff.

As for adding value, kitchens and baths make for more value and you get the most $$ back for it. I think it is over 80% - that is, if you redo your kitchen for 10K, you should expect about 8500 of that back when you sell (barring any appreciation).

Decks and basements tend to be on the lower end.

 
I've seen a couple of posts on finishing basements to gain greater Value.  I don't know your Market, but here, a Finished basement will not be counted as Value by the Appraiser if you didn't pull permits on it.

I know of a family that finished out their basement, and gained nothing out of it, infact, it made the home harder to sell.  When they went to get it inspected after the fact to get rid of the stigma, they failed as Code here it is 7.5 feet from the highest part of the floor to the lowest part of the Ceiling.  They had Heating runs that got finished in that reduced the Ceiling height to just under 7 feet in a number of spots.  Ended up having to rework tons of the Ceiling calling in all manner of pros as they needed permits for absolutely everything at this point.  And the entire reason they didn't pull permits in the first place was that the contractor didn't want the "paperwork", and told them it would be cheaper without pulling permits.  They jumped at the chance to save.  There are a number of times I hate permits (When I am doing the work, it's a pain), if someone else is doing the work, get them EVERY TIME.

Not trying to do a Chicken little, but make sure to check everything out if you are counting on that Finished basement for Value.
Another good point from Mike. Basements and garages (or carports) value vary greatly - another reason to know your market, not just any market.Swimming pools are another one. Some people love 'em, others hate them (usually with small kids). Fenced yards too - some love privacy, some like open spaces.

As for permits - it is a pain in the ### sometimes and can cost you (I have a job stalled due to one right now), but in the end you'll know that you did what you were supposed to do and can feel good about showing the end buyer the permits. Plus you know code will be up to snuff.

As for adding value, kitchens and baths make for more value and you get the most $$ back for it. I think it is over 80% - that is, if you redo your kitchen for 10K, you should expect about 8500 of that back when you sell (barring any appreciation).

Decks and basements tend to be on the lower end.
This might be helpful:A deck could be a good thing

Knowing your codes sounds like very good advice. The codes in my area haven't been strictly enforced in a long time. Now it appears they will be. Bad news for some homeowners who plan to sell in the future, I'm sure.

 
I've seen a couple of posts on finishing basements to gain greater Value.  I don't know your Market, but here, a Finished basement will not be counted as Value by the Appraiser if you didn't pull permits on it.

I know of a family that finished out their basement, and gained nothing out of it, infact, it made the home harder to sell.  When they went to get it inspected after the fact to get rid of the stigma, they failed as Code here it is 7.5 feet from the highest part of the floor to the lowest part of the Ceiling.  They had Heating runs that got finished in that reduced the Ceiling height to just under 7 feet in a number of spots.  Ended up having to rework tons of the Ceiling calling in all manner of pros as they needed permits for absolutely everything at this point.  And the entire reason they didn't pull permits in the first place was that the contractor didn't want the "paperwork", and told them it would be cheaper without pulling permits.  They jumped at the chance to save.  There are a number of times I hate permits (When I am doing the work, it's a pain), if someone else is doing the work, get them EVERY TIME.

Not trying to do a Chicken little, but make sure to check everything out if you are counting on that Finished basement for Value.
Another good point from Mike. Basements and garages (or carports) value vary greatly - another reason to know your market, not just any market.Swimming pools are another one. Some people love 'em, others hate them (usually with small kids). Fenced yards too - some love privacy, some like open spaces.

As for permits - it is a pain in the ### sometimes and can cost you (I have a job stalled due to one right now), but in the end you'll know that you did what you were supposed to do and can feel good about showing the end buyer the permits. Plus you know code will be up to snuff.

As for adding value, kitchens and baths make for more value and you get the most $$ back for it. I think it is over 80% - that is, if you redo your kitchen for 10K, you should expect about 8500 of that back when you sell (barring any appreciation).

Decks and basements tend to be on the lower end.
Fortunately, the wife and I had foresight with this and went ahead and got the basement done with a permit. It has been a little more of a hassle in that I had to put in an egress window (cost of about $2000) but in the long run we feel it is worth it.
 
I have a crappy problem.I just rented a house with two roommates and it's perfect - 4 BR, 2.5BA, basement. Good price.We've been in the place for just over two weeks and today I received a call from the owner's agent saying they want to sell it and need us to move out so they can renovate.Now we did sign a 1-year lease so I assume we have some rights in this case, but it seems like a tough situation because they would probably treat us like crap if we don't cooperate. Anyway, they've offered to have their agent assist us in finding a comparable place and pay us one months rent and moving expenses. Is that an adequate compensation package? Should we seek some other recourse?We're extremely disappointed, as it took a long time for us to find a house that suited our needs so well (we're a metal band that needs space to play).TIA :cry:Edit: I have reviewed the lease and do not see any provision for the owner to terminate the contract prior to the end of the term...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jeff and mike, thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, the situation isn't quite as rosy as Jeff makes it out. I just did a quick search on comparable rentals in Palm Beach county and they seem to be between $1500 - $2000. Granted, I really need to do more homework to make sure that they are comparable, but every house and situation is different.

My monthy payments including tax and insurance come to around $1400 - this is on a 15 year fixed rate (I wish I did a 30 yr fixed and put the surplus into an interest bearing account, but that is a different conservation). so, with the 25% overage that Jeff recomends, that means I need to be able to rent it out for over $1800, which is doable.

that being said, is it worth the hassles and headache to keep a property and rent it out, assuming that rental income will just cover the payment of the property + approx 25%? Assume I could buy the new house w/o using equity from this one - would this be the better way to go?

Or, would it be better to sell this house and roll the equity into the new house, resulting in either lower payments or a bigger house?
That's a classic question - buy and hold, rent out or just "flip"?First, you can rent it out AND pull cash out. A 30-year interest only option exists - and the note wouldn't be too much a % of the equity, so it might be worth it.

So you might be able to squeeze a few $100 out a month for cash flow - but if you have that much equity, I'd cash out. "A quick nickel is worth more than a slow dime". Take $250K from a sale and move on. If you want a rental property then, go and buy one.

I don't like the idea of paying down a mortgage more than I have to - banks are comfortable now with 80-90% financing, so why not use the money elsewhere? Grow your $$ faster than paying down the mortgage and stay more liquid.

I offer private investors double-digit interest if they partner / invest with me, just as an example. There are non-conforming lenders (private lenders, hard money lenders) out there that make 15-20% on their $$ a year.

The point is, let your new found equity / windfall $$ work for you. Paying down a tax writeoff in the single digit interest rates doesn't make much sense.
Good info, thanks. Moleculo with money is like a mule with a harmonica - he don't know how he got it, and he sure as heck don't know what to do with it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jeff, thanks for doing this. Do you sell homes on contract? I have seen some of these deals done and they look sweet. I have a modest 3BR/2BATH and I don't have much equity. If I'm able to upgrade in a couple of years, I might like to sell this one on contract.

The way I understand it is that the buyer often does not complete the sale. You keep his down payment and monthly payments. I also understand that you structure the deal so that if he does complete the sale after the allotted time, you still do fine. Is my basic understanding correct? What more should I know?
That the damage to your property from the Failed Land Contract/Tenant will be extensive.
Is this also true of renters? Are land contract buyers, who put down 2-5% WORSE?
Still interested in hearing if somehow the land contract buyers are worse than regular renters, if you get a chance Mike. If so, do you do all of your deals without tenants, or do they profits offset the damage done by your tenants?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top