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How much Voter Fraud is Happening (2 Viewers)

Which is worse / which is MORE UNJUST?

  • An illegitimate vote being counted

    Votes: 73 27.4%

  • A legitimate vote not being counted

    Votes: 193 72.6%
  • Total voters
    266
Walking Boot said:
I've been saying for years that the solution is obvious.

Voter receipts.

Everyone is registered and given a login. You vote, you get a coded printout receipt. After the election, you can go to a webpage and confirm that your vote was counted, and counted correctly. You voted for A and it shows as a vote for B in the system? Proves the problem exists, and corrects it. The call can go out for other people to check their receipts, and if it's a widespread problem, the result can be fixed.

The system now has no recourse for known fraud. We have elections that we know for sure were fraudulent and the courts and government have never changed a result.

Go to a confirmation system and any hack, intrusion, or whatever would become obvious. Changed votes after the fact would be discovered. Added votes to the totals would stick out as the total votes counted would exceed printed receipts. Everyone would have a hand in ensuring the integrity of the system.

In person fraud and tampering with the count afterward would both be eliminated.
Click to expand...
Universal registration? 

Allow me to introduce you to this pesky thing called the Republican Party.

 
I'm hearing that the 3,000,000,000 illegal voters are hiding out in DB Cooper's cabin with the real killer OJ has been hunting for.

 
Walking Boot said:
I've been saying for years that the solution is obvious.

Voter receipts.

Everyone is registered and given a login. You vote, you get a coded printout receipt. After the election, you can go to a webpage and confirm that your vote was counted, and counted correctly. You voted for A and it shows as a vote for B in the system? Proves the problem exists, and corrects it. The call can go out for other people to check their receipts, and if it's a widespread problem, the result can be fixed.

The system now has no recourse for known fraud. We have elections that we know for sure were fraudulent and the courts and government have never changed a result.

Go to a confirmation system and any hack, intrusion, or whatever would become obvious. Changed votes after the fact would be discovered. Added votes to the totals would stick out as the total votes counted would exceed printed receipts. Everyone would have a hand in ensuring the integrity of the system.

In person fraud and tampering with the count afterward would both be eliminated.
Click to expand...
I disagree with most of this.  First, universal registration is the opposite of the direction that we should be headed in.  Second, we should just go back to paper ballots that cannot be electronically hacked.  We overreacted to the Florida 2000 election when it comes to electronic voting. 

 
Voter rolls in CA are very troubling.  Many of their county rolls are way higher than the number of voting age citizens.  The amount they are over:

Imperial (102%), Lassen (102%), Los Angeles (144%), Monterey (104%), San Diego (138%), San Francisco (114%), San Mateo (111%), Santa Cruz (109%), Solano (111%), Stanislaus (102%), and Yolo (110%).

Is all this overage innocent?  Highly unlikely - given that many citizens never register to vote the fact that these counties are effectively further over than even these numbers should have everyone concerned.  Not in presidential elections sine that one was overwhelming, but local and state elections could be heavily affected.

 
Sand said:
Voter rolls in CA are very troubling.  Many of their county rolls are way higher than the number of voting age citizens.  The amount they are over:

Imperial (102%), Lassen (102%), Los Angeles (144%), Monterey (104%), San Diego (138%), San Francisco (114%), San Mateo (111%), Santa Cruz (109%), Solano (111%), Stanislaus (102%), and Yolo (110%).

Is all this overage innocent?  Highly unlikely - given that many citizens never register to vote the fact that these counties are effectively further over than even these numbers should have everyone concerned.  Not in presidential elections sine that one was overwhelming, but local and state elections could be heavily affected.
Click to expand...
Why should I be concerned? Isn't the most logical answer that dead people and people who now reside elsewhere were never purged from the rolls?  

This issue is my "conservative" litmus test.  If you buy into this nonsense you're not a conservative in the historical context of the definition, you're simply a Republican trying to disguise yourself as a conservative.  

 
Sand said:
Voter rolls in CA are very troubling.  Many of their county rolls are way higher than the number of voting age citizens.  The amount they are over:

Imperial (102%), Lassen (102%), Los Angeles (144%), Monterey (104%), San Diego (138%), San Francisco (114%), San Mateo (111%), Santa Cruz (109%), Solano (111%), Stanislaus (102%), and Yolo (110%).

Is all this overage innocent?  Highly unlikely - given that many citizens never register to vote the fact that these counties are effectively further over than even these numbers should have everyone concerned.  Not in presidential elections sine that one was overwhelming, but local and state elections could be heavily affected.
Click to expand...
Where are these numbers from?

 
tommyGunZ said:
Isn't the most logical answer that dead people and people who now reside elsewhere were never purged from the rolls?  
Click to expand...
From here:

Massachusetts voter rolls list a record 4.5 million registrations, but an untold number — potentially as high as 1 million registrations — should no longer be on the books.

That’s because state and local election organizers are not always able to track when registered voters move out of state or if they die outside of Massachusetts.

Eventually such individuals are removed from voter rolls, but there can be a lag time of several years, and in the meantime more registrations become out of date.

State officials said they do not believe any of the discrepancies are nefarious in nature or signs of voter fraud.
Of course state officials would say that. They were elected into office by phantoms, and are beholden to ghosts!

 
Juxtatarot said:
"Issue" with voting, voter rolls or both?
Click to expand...
They should proceed with the investigation into voter fraud to confirm where the issue is, those percentages are significant. If we can burn the tax dollars we do on the Russia excuse....I mean issue then this certainly deserves attention as well. 

 
GoBirds said:
It's amazing how defensive Liberals are over this. 144% and 138%, obviously there's an issue that needs to be addressed. 
Click to expand...
Go ahead and spend some money and time addressing this (republicans will then probably cry about how much it costs the government to "fix").

 
GoBirds said:
Wow, the mods let you post the things you did last night and no vacation? You must have serious dirt on some important people here to act the way you do and continue to get away with it. We've got nothing to discuss...let's move along. 
Click to expand...
Bruce has been one of the best posters on this board for a decade.  You are.....not. 

 
GoBirds said:
They should proceed with the investigation into voter fraud to confirm where the issue is, those percentages are significant. If we can burn the tax dollars we do on the Russia excuse....I mean issue then this certainly deserves attention as well. 
Click to expand...
Would the new restrictions on voter registration proposed by Kobach, Pence, et al, address whatever problem you seem to think exists here?  

 
HellToupee said:
[scooter] said:
Liberals are probably defensive because conservatives are exploiting examples of minor bureaucratic oversight to scream "VOTER FRAUD" and implement voter suppression.
Click to expand...
"Oversight"

non offensive emoji->  :lol:
Click to expand...
Voter rolls have been examined time and time again in multiple jurisdictions. Every time, the conclusion is that the extra percentages are due to people dying or moving away.

It is a clerical error.

When this fact fails to stop voter-suppression-enthusiasts, they tend to move the goalposts by claiming that illegal voters could potentially assume the identities of people who have died or moved away.

And you know what? You're actually right. Illegal voters could impersonate dead voters -- in theory.

But in order to do that, the illegal voter would need to:

A) know the exact name/address/DOB of the dead voter.

B) know which voting precinct the dead voter belonged to.

C) create a passable fake ID for the dead voter.

D) hope that nobody at the voting precinct recognizes the dead voter's name.

E) hope that the voter roll has not been updated since this diabolical plot was hatched.

F) hope that nobody else has already tried the same scam with the same dead voter's name.

G) hope that the dead voter didn't cast an absentee ballot prior to dying.

And at the end of the day, even if the illegal voter managed to navigate through all 7 of the obstacles presented above, the fact remains that this scam would leave indelible proof in the form of a DEAD PERSON VOTING.

And aside from random pockets in Chicago, dead people don't vote.

 
[scooter] said:
Voter rolls have been examined time and time again in multiple jurisdictions. Every time, the conclusion is that the extra percentages are due to people dying or moving away.

It is a clerical error.

When this fact fails to stop voter-suppression-enthusiasts, they tend to move the goalposts by claiming that illegal voters could potentially assume the identities of people who have died or moved away.

And you know what? You're actually right. Illegal voters could impersonate dead voters -- in theory.

But in order to do that, the illegal voter would need to:

A) know the exact name/address/DOB of the dead voter.

B) know which voting precinct the dead voter belonged to.

C) create a passable fake ID for the dead voter.

D) hope that nobody at the voting precinct recognizes the dead voter's name.

E) hope that the voter roll has not been updated since this diabolical plot was hatched.

F) hope that nobody else has already tried the same scam with the same dead voter's name.

G) hope that the dead voter didn't cast an absentee ballot prior to dying.

And at the end of the day, even if the illegal voter managed to navigate through all 7 of the obstacles presented above, the fact remains that this scam would leave indelible proof in the form of a DEAD PERSON VOTING.

And aside from random pockets in Chicago, dead people don't vote.
Click to expand...
When a clerical error is creating variations in the 138-144% range it's little more than a clerical error and time to correct whatever the problem is. No one should be defensive about that unless they have different motives. 

 
GoBirds said:
When a clerical error is creating variations in the 138-144% range it's little more than a clerical error and time to correct whatever the problem is. No one should be defensive about that unless they have different motives. 
Click to expand...
"Is all this overage innocent?  Highly unlikely" = different motives

 
GoBirds said:
Wow, the mods let you post the things you did last night and no vacation? You must have serious dirt on some important people here to act the way you do and continue to get away with it. We've got nothing to discuss...let's move along. 
Click to expand...
No dirt I know of. And nothing was reported for this. If you see something over the line, please report. 

 
dschuler said:
Even @ 99.99% accurate, still more than 10,000 votes.  People that voted less than 1,000 are bigots. 
Click to expand...
What if investigations into voter fraud have found an accuracy rate greater that 99.99%?  Are we to dismiss it because it is bigoted?  And what justification is there to call it bigoted?

 
GoBirds said:
When a clerical error is creating variations in the 138-144% range it's little more than a clerical error and time to correct whatever the problem is. No one should be defensive about that unless they have different motives. 
Click to expand...
I'm trying to find out what you mean when you say "issue" and "problem" because those words aren't specific enough to have a detailed conversation.  I'm trying understand what problem you have identified and what solution you propose to fix it.  

Do you think fraudulent votes are being cast?  How are they slipping through the system?  What do you propose to fix the problem?

 
Sand said:
Voter rolls in CA are very troubling.  Many of their county rolls are way higher than the number of voting age citizens.  The amount they are over:

Imperial (102%), Lassen (102%), Los Angeles (144%), Monterey (104%), San Diego (138%), San Francisco (114%), San Mateo (111%), Santa Cruz (109%), Solano (111%), Stanislaus (102%), and Yolo (110%).

Is all this overage innocent?  Highly unlikely - given that many citizens never register to vote the fact that these counties are effectively further over than even these numbers should have everyone concerned.  Not in presidential elections sine that one was overwhelming, but local and state elections could be heavily affected.
Click to expand...
If it was the numbers of votes from those counties was higher then the number of voting age citizens then it would be troubling. Just because the county roll are higher doesn't mean there were lots of illegal votes. Just means books need to be cleared.

 
Mile High said:
If it was the numbers of votes from those counties was higher then the number of voting age citizens then it would be troubling. Just because the county roll are higher doesn't mean there were lots of illegal votes. Just means books need to be cleared.
Click to expand...
It's more than just cleaning the books.  144% is absolutely ridiculous.

 
Mile High said:
If it was the numbers of votes from those counties was higher then the number of voting age citizens then it would be troubling. Just because the county roll are higher doesn't mean there were lots of illegal votes. Just means books need to be cleared.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this.  

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
What if investigations into voter fraud have found an accuracy rate greater that 99.99%?  Are we to dismiss it because it is bigoted?  And what justification is there to call it bigoted?
Click to expand...
It's just common sense.  Some of the greatest instrumentation in the world to create nuclear bombs, spy on enemies illegally and undetected, monitor reactor plants, saves patients lives, aren't even close to 99.99% accurate.  Yet people think a system where so much of the country is very divisive is going to be essentially flawless.  Blows me mind.  

Not really a political issue, just a numbers game.  Over 100,000,000 votes spread across 50 states with several thousand voting booths, thousands of "volunteers", hundreds of thousands of military members voting in all kinds of weird scenarios overseas and out of state. All going into thousands of computers, sifting through many hands, regulations, and all kinds of other crap I'm sure.  Way too many variables. Hell, even at 99% I would say it's a great system and that would still mean over a million votes get jacked up.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sand said:
Voter rolls in CA are very troubling.  Many of their county rolls are way higher than the number of voting age citizens.  The amount they are over:

Imperial (102%), Lassen (102%), Los Angeles (144%), Monterey (104%), San Diego (138%), San Francisco (114%), San Mateo (111%), Santa Cruz (109%), Solano (111%), Stanislaus (102%), and Yolo (110%).

Is all this overage innocent?  Highly unlikely - given that many citizens never register to vote the fact that these counties are effectively further over than even these numbers should have everyone concerned.  Not in presidential elections sine that one was overwhelming, but local and state elections could be heavily affected.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity what is the source for these numbers?

I don't doubt it's possible but coming from here in LA I rather thought most of the rest of the country had their act together.

It's really up to the states and counties to manage their own elections and voter rolls.

 
dschuler said:
It's just common sense.  Some of the greatest instrumentation in the world to create nuclear bombs, spy on enemies illegally and undetected, monitor reactor plants, saves patients lives, aren't even close to 99.99% accurate.
Click to expand...
That certainly seems relevant

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Out of curiosity what is the source for these numbers?

I don't doubt it's possible but coming from here in LA I rather thought most of the rest of the country had their act together.

It's really up to the states and counties to manage their own elections and voter rolls.
Click to expand...
Judicial Watch. Here is their letter to CA Secretary of State: NVRA letter CA August 2017.

Their data collection: 

From public records obtained on the Election Assistance Commission (“EAC”) 2016 Election Administration Voting Survey (“EAVS”), and through verbal accounts from various county agencies, eleven (11) counties in California have more total registered voters than citizen voting age population (CVAP) calculated by the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2011-2015 American Community Survey. This is strong circumstantial evidence that California municipalities are not conducting reasonable voter registration list maintenance as mandated under the NVRA.




1
Click to expand...
I wonder if JW took into account that this Spring, CA started allowing 16 and17-year-olds preregister to vote. Did they use data from EAVS to argue "have more total registered voters than citizen voting age population" or did they rely on 'verbal accounts" of current registered voters totals?

 
MaxThreshold said:
roadkill1292 said:
I don't think conservatives understand the incalculable damage they are doing to their chances with the North Carolina-style voter suppression actions. For minorities, this is like a step back into Jim Crow. Do the Republicans think that holding a figurative gun  to their heads and saying "until you vote for us, we're gonna keep denying you the vote" is going to win over minority voters? Not only does it cost them any chance at the African-American votes, it's now killing them with Hispanic voters and every fair-minded Anglo in the nation.
Click to expand...
Is this where you think you that if you repeat it enough it's true?  That's so cute.
Click to expand...
There is not another way to label the actions of NC more accurately than roadkill1292 did in this post :shrug:  

 
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