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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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Oh snap.... Light it up Gordon... Almost time to celebrate!!

I'm guessing he misses wk 1 and then fails another test by wk 7

Not with the new thresholds!!!!

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I'll go real slow for Bay. First i gave one example of what lawyers could do if the desired result was to vacate the stay for Welker and Gordon. There are other options. This was all in response to Bay implying that there was no possible way to tailor a policy that would vacate Gordon's suspension without going back to every prior suspension.

Second i said that lawyers would draft the agreement to get the desired result so your floodgates argument is without merit. The document would not be signed until both the NFL and the NFLPA knew what would happen.

Third, in the example I said they could look at all unserved suspensions and see if the result would be the same under the new policy. If so, the suspension remains. If not, the suspension would be modified accordingly. I never said vacate all suspensions.

I did not such thing.

Read it again, if you want. I said that if Smith's quote was accurate, and they were going to undo suspensions from violations in this league year, Gordon wouldn't be included. I said they couldn't just "add" Gordon in. I asked you to give an example of how they'd include him. Your post wasn't clear. Your explanation now is. I see that as a possibility.

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Time to brace yourselves for the home stretch. Either he will play or he won't. He has already said he won't sue. It comes down to this. Now, all of the blowhards arguing over whether he should or shouldn't be included will finally receive a definitive answer. Stay tuned!

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WTF, is this really going to happen or are we in for a big let down?

Its happening! Writing on the wall. Get him now when you can. Regardless of how you feel about weed, guy is about to play.

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As far as legally defensible arguments to support vacating both suspensions, it's as simple as providing that all unserved suspensions shall be treated as if they occurred under the new policy and modified accordingly. Not that though really.

Simple? So they will "free" Blackmon? Irsay? Mathis? EVERY player currently suspended? I don't see the league doing that.

I haven't seen anything about suspensions arising from arrests. Irsay and Blackmon were suspended for legal issues. Do we know what Mathis tested positive for or if it was his first offense? Welker would be off the hook with it being his first offense and Gordon for his result being under the new threshold for a positive for weed. They are different than the others.

I understand that. The post I responded to said "it's simple, just vacate ALL current suspensions.". My point was that it's not as simple as he thinks/wants it to be.

Bay, it seems like you are just trying to argue with no real point. I know Wake didn't specifically say suspension related to this policy change but you and everyone here understood what he was saying. It's arguments like yours that make it tough to get any real information from this thread.

I'm not arguing just to argue. His post wasn't clear. He subsequently clarified it, and his idea seems reasonable to me.

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WTF, is this really going to happen or are we in for a big let down?

Its happening! Writing on the wall. Get him now when you can. Regardless of how you feel about weed, guy is about to play.

In my main money league, if this happens, I will be rolling Dez, AJ Green, Gronk, and Gordon out there every week catching balls. I think I could plug in John Riggins and Franco Harris at RB in that league and still be in good shape. #freegordon

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As far as legally defensible arguments to support vacating both suspensions, it's as simple as providing that all unserved suspensions shall be treated as if they occurred under the new policy and modified accordingly. Not that though really.

Simple? So they will "free" Blackmon? Irsay? Mathis? EVERY player currently suspended? I don't see the league doing that.

When in doubt go with the Strawman.

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I'm not getting excited until it's a done deal.

If it does, I'm renaming my dogs Josh and Gordon.

Edited by ponchsox
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I'm drafting in the FFPC Main Event shortly. Where would you guys consider drafting him(assuming no new news in the next hour)?

Absolutely, but I am assuming almost everyone in your league will be trying to get him. Whoops...missed the "where" part. Man, thats tough. I wouldn't put a round on it so much as when you hit a point in the draft where you aren't very excited about your options.

Edited by Ilov80s

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I'm drafting in the FFPC Main Event shortly. Where would you guys consider drafting him(assuming no new news in the next hour)?

5th-6th round?

Edited by ponchsox

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I'm drafting in the FFPC Main Event shortly. Where would you guys consider drafting him(assuming no new news in the next hour)?

assuming you take him as your 2nd WR - early as 4 i think….but depends on your comfort level. He's been dogging it all offseason not expecting this to happen….don't know if he's able to turn it on without time to build it up.

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I'm drafting in the FFPC Main Event shortly. Where would you guys consider drafting him(assuming no new news in the next hour)?

assuming you take him as your 2nd WR - early as 4 i think….but depends on your comfort level. He's been dogging it all offseason not expecting this to happen….don't know if he's able to turn it on without time to build it up.

Yeah, I am concerned about how ready he is to play. It would be pretty funny if after all this, he gets cleared to play and has a garbage year and ends up on the WW in most leagues for poor performance.

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wait... so people are seeing this as a good enough bet to take him in the 4th round?

Depends on your risk tolerance. Someone in your draft is likely to the pull the trigger fairly early. It's like drafting Gronk. You could be getting a 1st rounder at a 4th round price, with more risk.

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The talk about "Gordon Haters" is funny. I personally like the player and think the NFL marijuana rules are dumb. My hate is for the rediculous claims of Gordon owners for months and months. The list is too long to post, but you all know it...."he's not stage 3, 2nd hand smoke etc etc etc etc etc....and now we get the "shark claims" based on the most recent twist that is still a long shot and one that nobody predicted...so how is that a shark move?

I started in this thread because I do hate idiot athletes that have the world at their fingertips and all they have to do is not smoke pot for 10-15yrs, but think they are so above the rules that they shouldn't have to follow them.

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Why would the NFLPA go to bat so hard for Gordon? I understand that they need to represent him to the best of their ability, but to make him a focal point seems absurd. Is this a guy they really want representing the face of the league?

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/06/new-nfl-drug-testing-policy-could-come-at-any-time/



We could be moments away from the NFL and its players agreeing to a new policy on drug testing.


A league source tells PFT that momentum keeps building for the new policy to get done. The source added, “I’m expecting an announcement at any time.”


Publicly, the players’ union has been very cautious, noting that a deal isn’t done until it’s formally agreed upon by both sides. And it’s still possible that some unforeseen snag could come up to derail the whole thing.


But there’s encouraging progress on a new policy that would finally begin the process of using blood tests to check players for human growth hormone, in addition to changing other aspects of the policy including raising the level of marijuana that would trigger a positive test, and making the offseason use of amphetamines a violation of the substance-abuse policy, rather than the performance-enhancing substance policy.


Those two changes may still come in time to help Browns receiver Josh Gordon and Broncos receiver Wes Welker, both of whom are suspended based on the current policy, but would not be suspended under the proposed new policy.


Stay tuned.


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Why would the NFLPA go to bat so hard for Gordon? I understand that they need to represent him to the best of their ability, but to make him a focal point seems absurd. Is this a guy they really want representing the face of the league?

because the penatly for weed and aderall is absurd?

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NFLPA chief DeMaurice Smith confirmed the union will seek to reverse suspensions that occurred this year as part of a potential new deal with the league on performance-enhancing drugs.
"We don't want players to suffer because the union and league couldn't get it done before the league year," Smith said. He's essentially referring to Josh Gordon, who is suspended indefinitely for failed drug tests, and Wes Welker, who is suspended four games for amphetamines. It's a glimmer of hope for both players, but it's small part of a much larger negotiation with tons of moving parts as the two sides try to revamp the overall policy. The talks have been described as "fragile." At this point, Gordon remains a stash-and-pray kind of fantasy option. Sep 6 - 1:04 AM

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I hope this happens.

With the easy access to info these days its seems like its been a long time since really paying attention payed off. While all the half ### owners in my leagues won't think about FF till tomorrow, I'm snatching up Gordon left and right for peanuts.

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NFLPA chief DeMaurice Smith confirmed the union will seek to reverse suspensions that occurred this year as part of a potential new deal with the league on performance-enhancing drugs.
"We don't want players to suffer because the union and league couldn't get it done before the league year," Smith said. He's essentially referring to Josh Gordon, who is suspended indefinitely for failed drug tests, and Wes Welker, who is suspended four games for amphetamines. It's a glimmer of hope for both players, but it's small part of a much larger negotiation with tons of moving parts as the two sides try to revamp the overall policy. The talks have been described as "fragile." At this point, Gordon remains a stash-and-pray kind of fantasy option. Sep 6 - 1:04 AM

is he really referring to gordon though? what about the people that were saying Gordon's suspension was from 2013?

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Why would the NFLPA go to bat so hard for Gordon? I understand that they need to represent him to the best of their ability, but to make him a focal point seems absurd. Is this a guy they really want representing the face of the league?

because the penatly for weed and aderall is absurd?

:goodposting:

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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/09/josh_gordon_could_be_re-instat.html

"The issue with Gordon, however, is that he may have tested positive for marijuana before the league year began on March 11. If that's the case, the new rules might not apply to him. A league source told cleveland.com that the NFL has known about Gordon's positive test since February -- even though it didn't surface publicly on ESPN until May 9."

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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/09/josh_gordon_could_be_re-instat.html

"The issue with Gordon, however, is that he may have tested positive for marijuana before the league year began on March 11. If that's the case, the new rules might not apply to him. A league source told cleveland.com that the NFL has known about Gordon's positive test since February -- even though it didn't surface publicly on ESPN until May 9."

No room for Debbie Downers in here!

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No one mentions LaVon Brazil. he was suspended for the year right before Gordon for the same reason Gordonw as I think,. I asusme he would be allowed to return if anyone wanted him?

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WTF, is this really going to happen or are we in for a big let down?

Its happening! Writing on the wall. Get him now when you can. Regardless of how you feel about weed, guy is about to play.

In my main money league, if this happens, I will be rolling Dez, AJ Green, Gronk, and Gordon out there every week catching balls. I think I could plug in John Riggins and Franco Harris at RB in that league and still be in good shape. #freegordon

Damryius Julio Gordon & Julius Thomas for me... Heck lance Dunbar and Mark Ingram seem like ok options at RB

(Cordarelle and kelvin Benjamin are backups)

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No one mentions LaVon Brazil. he was suspended for the year right before Gordon for the same reason Gordonw as I think,. I asusme he would be allowed to return if anyone wanted him?

problem is he got cut, and already signed in CFL I think. Doesnt do him any good

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No one mentions LaVon Brazil. he was suspended for the year right before Gordon for the same reason Gordonw as I think,. I asusme he would be allowed to return if anyone wanted him?

problem is he got cut, and already signed in CFL I think. Doesnt do him any good

Yeah I dont think any team would want him anyway but I assume if Gordon is reinstated he would be also.

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No one mentions LaVon Brazil. he was suspended for the year right before Gordon for the same reason Gordonw as I think,. I asusme he would be allowed to return if anyone wanted him?

problem is he got cut, and already signed in CFL I think. Doesnt do him any good

Yeah I dont think any team would want him anyway but I assume if Gordon is reinstated he would be also.

I don't know his case - what were his levels when he tested positive? I think that is the only thing going on here - not a blanket get out of jail free card - Gordon's levels were below the new current standards, assuming they pass - so the argument would be to apply the new standards to the old case - no positive test, no suspension.

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/06/new-nfl-drug-testing-policy-could-come-at-any-time/

We could be moments away from the NFL and its players agreeing to a new policy on drug testing.

A league source tells PFT that momentum keeps building for the new policy to get done. The source added, Im expecting an announcement at any time.

Publicly, the players union has been very cautious, noting that a deal isnt done until its formally agreed upon by both sides. And its still possible that some unforeseen snag could come up to derail the whole thing.

But theres encouraging progress on a new policy that would finally begin the process of using blood tests to check players for human growth hormone, in addition to changing other aspects of the policy including raising the level of marijuana that would trigger a positive test, and making the offseason use of amphetamines a violation of the substance-abuse policy, rather than the performance-enhancing substance policy.

Those two changes may still come in time to help Browns receiver Josh Gordon and Broncos receiver Wes Welker, both of whom are suspended based on the current policy, but would not be suspended under the proposed new policy.

Stay tuned.

BOOOUSH!!!!

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No one mentions LaVon Brazil. he was suspended for the year right before Gordon for the same reason Gordonw as I think,. I asusme he would be allowed to return if anyone wanted him?

problem is he got cut, and already signed in CFL I think. Doesnt do him any good

Yeah I dont think any team would want him anyway but I assume if Gordon is reinstated he would be also.

We have no idea how far over the limit Brazil or any other player was, as suspension announcements don't indicate how far people missed the cut off threshold. Anyone that tested positive over the new agreed upon amount would still be suspended. It's not like the league would just throw out all suspensions altogether.

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CMON ONE TIME CMON

It's a three-outer at best.

Meanwhile, everyone else in the league is pissed off that some knucklehead is about to get paid off, when he should have folded...

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WTF, is this really going to happen or are we in for a big let down?

Its happening! Writing on the wall. Get him now when you can. Regardless of how you feel about weed, guy is about to play.

In my main money league, if this happens, I will be rolling Dez, AJ Green, Gronk, and Gordon out there every week catching balls. I think I could plug in John Riggins and Franco Harris at RB in that league and still be in good shape. #freegordon

Damryius Julio Gordon & Julius Thomas for me... Heck lance Dunbar and Mark Ingram seem like ok options at RB

(Cordarelle and kelvin Benjamin are backups)

I'll get involved in this #### waving contest, if Gordon goes free I'll be looking at Dez, Jordy, Josh and Jimmy Graham with Patterson and Sanders as back ups.

Hell yeah

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WTF, is this really going to happen or are we in for a big let down?

Its happening! Writing on the wall. Get him now when you can. Regardless of how you feel about weed, guy is about to play.

In my main money league, if this happens, I will be rolling Dez, AJ Green, Gronk, and Gordon out there every week catching balls. I think I could plug in John Riggins and Franco Harris at RB in that league and still be in good shape. #freegordon

Damryius Julio Gordon & Julius Thomas for me... Heck lance Dunbar and Mark Ingram seem like ok options at RB

(Cordarelle and kelvin Benjamin are backups)

I'll get involved in this #### waving contest, if Gordon goes free I'll be looking at Dez, Jordy, Josh and Jimmy Graham with Patterson and Sanders as back ups.

Hell yeah

I hear ya! Gordon, Julio, Marshall, Gronk and Lynch.

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Waking up to no real deal yet but everyone on the very edge of their seat, and now I am too

Edited by SengerCJ

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WTF, is this really going to happen or are we in for a big let down?

Its happening! Writing on the wall. Get him now when you can. Regardless of how you feel about weed, guy is about to play.

In my main money league, if this happens, I will be rolling Dez, AJ Green, Gronk, and Gordon out there every week catching balls. I think I could plug in John Riggins and Franco Harris at RB in that league and still be in good shape. #freegordon

Damryius Julio Gordon & Julius Thomas for me... Heck lance Dunbar and Mark Ingram seem like ok options at RB

(Cordarelle and kelvin Benjamin are backups)

I'll get involved in this #### waving contest, if Gordon goes free I'll be looking at Dez, Jordy, Josh and Jimmy Graham with Patterson and Sanders as back ups.

Hell yeah

I hear ya! Gordon, Julio, Marshall, Gronk and Lynch.

I would have Antonio Brown, Randall Cobb, and Josh Gordon in a 32 team league.

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Please stop with the postings of how great your new WR corps will be if Gordon goes free.

It's not good for the cosmos and nobody cares.

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Please stop with the postings of how great your new WR corps will be if Gordon goes free.

It's not good for the cosmos and nobody cares.

Damn right...

DT, Jordy, Andre Johnson and Gordon....BOOM

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Please stop with the postings of how great your new WR corps will be if Gordon goes free.

It's not good for the cosmos and nobody cares.

this. times like these call for humility. we need all the karma we can get

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I'll go real slow for Bay. First i gave one example of what lawyers could do if the desired result was to vacate the stay for Welker and Gordon. There are other options. This was all in response to Bay implying that there was no possible way to tailor a policy that would vacate Gordon's suspension without going back to every prior suspension.

Second i said that lawyers would draft the agreement to get the desired result so your floodgates argument is without merit. The document would not be signed until both the NFL and the NFLPA knew what would happen.

Third, in the example I said they could look at all unserved suspensions and see if the result would be the same under the new policy. If so, the suspension remains. If not, the suspension would be modified accordingly. I never said vacate all suspensions.

I did not such thing.

Read it again, if you want. I said that if Smith's quote was accurate, and they were going to undo suspensions from violations in this league year, Gordon wouldn't be included. I said they couldn't just "add" Gordon in. I asked you to give an example of how they'd include him. Your post wasn't clear. Your explanation now is. I see that as a possibility.

I was responding to this statement: "If you think they'll be able to justify it, explain how, but I don't see it." [i don't know how to work the fancy multi-quotes]. Your statement may not have been as strong as originally implied by me.

My point is that this is all a negotiation. They will draft language to achieve their goals. Once the concept of Gordon's suspension being reduced was leaked, it makes it tough to not push for that, as the NFLPA is required to do. If that happens, they'll draft language to achieve that goal, even if it's quirky. Look at most laws, they don't make sense because they have to be crafted to achieve a negotiated goal. If Gordon isn't allowed to play, people will ask about the type of drug, the fact that Gordon only failed one test, the teams that they play for and even the race, nationality, etc of the players. It's human nature.

In the end, none of us know what will happen. They will do what they do and trying to take quotes and make binding legal conclusions could be a mistake. DeMo will push for as much as he can and won't see himself limited. I'm curious what the ultimate answer is but my wager is that either Welker and Gordon will both play or neither will. However, I would also wager that nothing that is done would impact Irsay because that would be a huge PR mistake. And I don't doubt that Goodell will aggressively pursue Gordon's DUI even when this is done.

I'm gonna sit back and enjoy the rest of this thread now.

Edited by wakelawyer

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Geoff Burke-USA TODAY Sports

Cleveland Browns wide receiver Josh Gordon is accepting his year-long suspension from the NFL and moving on.

From ESPN:

The whole being in limbo thing, Im over it, Gordon said Friday. Im not waiting on the edge of my seat anymore.

Gordon, who was suspended a year after failing a marijuana test, says he has no plans to sue the NFL to try and reverse the decision.

He reached this decision despite the fact that Gordon still maintains he only failed the drug test due to secondhand smoke. When asked when the last time he ever smoked marijuana, he replied: I think it was before I got into the league. I dont know.

The wide receiver revealed a bit more, as well, including saying he checked himself into a rehab facility in July, though he doesnt consider himself an addict.

Again, from ESPN:

Asked why he checked himself into rehab if he doesnt consider himself an addict, Gordon said, Just to see. To seek out some help on decision-making. Not drug use or drug abuse, but decision-making. Life skills. How to be your own person and stuff like that.

Gordon confirmed that he did look to play in the CFL this season. He cant because hes under contract with the Browns. Gordon maintained he didnt want to play CFL for the money, but rather as a way to stay in shape.

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