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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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Yea Lacanfora pretty much put this Gordon story to rest. He said he wouldn't even waste a bench spot on him. They're not even close to agreeing on a deal also. Oh well

Well that about does it.

Ooooof.

So are we all dropping Gordon now? Thinking about dropping him and preemptively picking up someone else.

Dropping him for who? Is there really anyone on the WW right now that you must have?

He is a hold through Tuesday minimum.

And until a definitive statement is made he still has value as trade throw in.

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Dropping him for who? Is there really anyone on the WW right now that you must have?

He is a hold through Tuesday minimum.

Well, no one that important but after the Lacy and Ellington injuries I'm hurt at RB and it seemed like your article tipped the scales far in favor of the suspension not being lifted. If it's not over then I may just drop White instead and pickup Cunningham.

"Question isn't 'If' now, but 'when' Josh Gordon will play this season." - @TonyGrossi on @BrownsRadio

I feel like this guy is just trying to give browns fans false hope and doesn't seem credible.

Edited by tigerz

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It almost seems as if a lot of people are new to how negotiations work. Even as all of us are in fantasy leagues and know how negotiating even a trade works. You act like your player (or side and angle) is the best and the one you are getting has all the issues and concessions. Do you think negotiating a contract to a sides benefit is any different? Remember how people lockout, but once money is agreed upon things open up.

There is a sticking point the league dont like and if they can get this info out and have people freak out maybe they can get public opinion back in their favor and have the players give some concessions, god knows if it works but it makes a side look bad and sometimes that matters. Obviously the people are reporting are not in the room and only being fed select info.

Edited by Jerry Curl

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Mort just said the opposite of La Canfora on FF Now. They said get your computer and grab Gordon.

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Dropping him for who? Is there really anyone on the WW right now that you must have?

He is a hold through Tuesday minimum.

Well, no one that important but after the Lacy and Ellington injuries I'm hurt at RB and it seemed like your article tipped the scales far in favor of the suspension not being lifted. If it's not over then I may just drop White instead and pickup Cunningham.

Qo0T4dM3_normal.jpegKen Carman @KenCarman · 8m

"Question isn't 'If' now, but 'when' Josh Gordon will play this season." - @TonyGrossi on @BrownsRadio

I feel like this guy is just trying to give browns fans false hope and doesn't seem credible.

More likely the local guys just don't have the reach or connections that guys like LaConfora has. But I'm a bit skeptical about "how close a deal is" to "we're not close at all" reports. Admittedly, "close" is relative with such complex issues.

To the issue to hold or not to hold. We are all in "Win now" mode. If Gordon is keeping you from winning now, you drop him, otherwise you have to hold now.

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Mortenson on ESPN2's fantasy show just said that he didn't believe it initially, but with his most recent info, if the drug policy gets done, then Josh Gordon and Wes Welker are likely to be reinstated. He says it is supposed to be finished on Tuesday, but the absolute deadline is the following Wednesday.

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Nobody really knows whether it's a 1% chance or a 99% chance. All these reporters are just speculating like we are. If the negotiations are ongoing, they are just guessing.

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Nobody really knows whether it's a 1% chance or a 99% chance. All these reporters are just speculating like we are. If the negotiations are ongoing, they are just guessing.

While this is true, the fact that a lot of sources (including Mort now on ESPN) are saying IF a deal gets done then Gordon will be back, is a good sign. It means that the Gordon reinstatement IS part of the negotiation and this isn't a mirage. Of course, if the deal falls through nothing would have happened anyway.

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Nobody really knows whether it's a 1% chance or a 99% chance. All these reporters are just speculating like we are. If the negotiations are ongoing, they are just guessing.

You think La Canfora is making up sources?

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Nobody really knows whether it's a 1% chance or a 99% chance. All these reporters are just speculating like we are. If the negotiations are ongoing, they are just guessing.

You think La Canfora is making up sources?

Is Mort making up sources?

No clue why these guys would have polar opposite information from sources that are likely equally as connected.

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Nobody really knows whether it's a 1% chance or a 99% chance. All these reporters are just speculating like we are. If the negotiations are ongoing, they are just guessing.

It is good to know that reporters and analysts are no better than some dudes on a FF Forum.

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Nobody really knows whether it's a 1% chance or a 99% chance. All these reporters are just speculating like we are. If the negotiations are ongoing, they are just guessing.

You think La Canfora is making up sources?

Is Mort making up sources?

No clue why these guys would have polar opposite information from sources that are likely equally as connected.

Sources on opposite sides of the table.

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Nobody really knows whether it's a 1% chance or a 99% chance. All these reporters are just speculating like we are. If the negotiations are ongoing, they are just guessing.

You think La Canfora is making up sources?

Is Mort making up sources?

No clue why these guys would have polar opposite information from sources that are likely equally as connected.

I think it's probably more likely they're hearing different things than different people than the are "just speculating like we are."

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Nobody really knows whether it's a 1% chance or a 99% chance. All these reporters are just speculating like we are. If the negotiations are ongoing, they are just guessing.

You think La Canfora is making up sources?

Is Mort making up sources?

No clue why these guys would have polar opposite information from sources that are likely equally as connected.

Sources on opposite sides of the table.

This exactly. Most likely, each side is leaking tidbits to try and create a beneficial negotiating environment/narrative for their side. If one side can get the media to largely report on the situation in a way that favors them, it makes it harder for the other side to negotiate.

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Thinking logically, if the players are making substantial concessions on hgh and the DUI/domestic violence suspensions, you would ASSUME they would get something in return.

But then again , this is the NFLPA who have existed to be taken to the woodshed.

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Nobody really knows whether it's a 1% chance or a 99% chance. All these reporters are just speculating like we are. If the negotiations are ongoing, they are just guessing.

You think La Canfora is making up sources?

How do the sources know anything? Seriously if they are negotiating, even the guys at the table don't know how it's going to play out.

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Nobody really knows whether it's a 1% chance or a 99% chance. All these reporters are just speculating like we are. If the negotiations are ongoing, they are just guessing.

You think La Canfora is making up sources?

How do the sources know anything? Seriously if they are negotiating, even the guys at the table don't know how it's going to play out.

What? You think people in the middle of a negotiation have no idea how negotiations are going? I don't even know what to say to that.

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Look guys, there isn't a group of people in a room debating on whether Josh Gordon and Wes Welker get reinstated. This is a very minor side issue.

If the NFLPA feels they are in a strong spot in the negotiations, than they may try and slip this in. On the other hand, if the NFL feels they have the upper hand, they likely will not go back and wipe away the suspensions they already announced.

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At the end of the day, the importance of the Gordon/Welker situations are small compared to the overall arc of what's being negotiated. Would seem like a throw-in concession for the NFL. With that said, if a new deal is reached, what exposure does the NFL have with regard to any future litigation filed by Gordon if new minimum levels are decided upon?

To the point above, there is some (if not a lot) negotiating being done in the media, I remember the NFL pushing the NFLPA during the lockout. Not surprising that there has been a pull back based on yesterday's 'any minute now' Florio report. One of, if not the primary issue the fans seem to care about is Gordon/Welker. So it's become a media pawn.

If I had to guess though, the NFL would have more to lose by keeping Gordon suspended, if a new deal reached. JMO though...

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Nobody really knows whether it's a 1% chance or a 99% chance. All these reporters are just speculating like we are. If the negotiations are ongoing, they are just guessing.

You think La Canfora is making up sources?

Is Mort making up sources?

No clue why these guys would have polar opposite information from sources that are likely equally as connected.

Sources on opposite sides of the table.

This is it.

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At the end of the day, the importance of the Gordon/Welker situations are small compared to the overall arc of what's being negotiated. Would seem like a throw-in concession for the NFL. With that said, if a new deal is reached, what exposure does the NFL have with regard to any future litigation filed by Gordon if new minimum levels are decided upon?

To the point above, there is some (if not a lot) negotiating being done in the media, I remember the NFL pushing the NFLPA during the lockout. Not surprising that there has been a pull back based on yesterday's 'any minute now' Florio report. One of, if not the primary issue the fans seem to care about is Gordon/Welker. So it's become a media pawn.

If I had to guess though, the NFL would have more to lose by keeping Gordon suspended, if a new deal reached. JMO though...

You mean one that fantasy football players care about and perhaps the Denver and Cleveland fans.

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At the end of the day, the importance of the Gordon/Welker situations are small compared to the overall arc of what's being negotiated. Would seem like a throw-in concession for the NFL. With that said, if a new deal is reached, what exposure does the NFL have with regard to any future litigation filed by Gordon if new minimum levels are decided upon?

To the point above, there is some (if not a lot) negotiating being done in the media, I remember the NFL pushing the NFLPA during the lockout. Not surprising that there has been a pull back based on yesterday's 'any minute now' Florio report. One of, if not the primary issue the fans seem to care about is Gordon/Welker. So it's become a media pawn.

If I had to guess though, the NFL would have more to lose by keeping Gordon suspended, if a new deal reached. JMO though...

You mean one that fantasy football players care about and perhaps the Denver and Cleveland fans.

30 million people play FF. DEN/CLE fans probably number in the low 8 figures...sizable enough contingent.

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Thinking logically, if the players are making substantial concessions on hgh and the DUI/domestic violence suspensions, you would ASSUME they would get something in return.

But then again , this is the NFLPA who have existed to be taken to the woodshed.

The players as a whole yes........a handful of drug users, drunk drivers and women beaters, probably not a big bargaining chip.

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He didn't cost me anything I can't get back on the roster though. It is still not over till it is over. The truth between such polarizing reports is somewhere in the middle.

It's the FAs and roster flexibility it will cost you over the course of the season as it drags on, twists and turns for the next 4 months.

He is, he's not , he is, he's not ... Welcome to Josh Gordon Hell!!!!!

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Look guys, there isn't a group of people in a room debating on whether Josh Gordon and Wes Welker get reinstated. This is a very minor side issue.

If the NFLPA feels they are in a strong spot in the negotiations, than they may try and slip this in. On the other hand, if the NFL feels they have the upper hand, they likely will not go back and wipe away the suspensions they already announced.

As someone who has negotiated on behalf of unions, I can tell you that the NFLPA will undoubtedly try to get as many of their members who are facing a suspension in 2014 off as they can. I doubt that they would make a major concession in drug testing protocol, however, just to get one or two players off. Long term gain for the majority has to take precedence over short term gain for a few. However, if they are in principle ready to move on drug testing protocol then it wouldn't at all be unreasonable to ask for existing rulings about to be enforced to be delayed or modified. I would ask.

The question is really on the other side of the table. How badly does the NFL want to enforce those existing rulings? Will they be willing to compromise on them? I suspect they may prefer to have Welker and Gordon playing.

I have been a skeptic about Gordon playing in 2014 from the beginning but if a deal is done today with the NFLPA I wouldn't be surprised to see a modification in the penalties to Welker and Gordon.

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According to Glazier on Fox, even if it an agreement is reached Gordon is still looking at suspension of 8 weeks.

on Fox

on Fox

on Fox

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According to Glazier on Fox, even if it an agreement is reached Gordon is still looking at suspension of 8 weeks.

The new policy would suspend a player two games for a first-time DWI. Being Gordon’s first DWI, he would fall under the new policy, if adopted.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1458871/josh-gordon-other-suspended-players-may-see-field-in-2014-after-all-if/

So 10 games total he'll probably be suspended?

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/07/drug-policy-talks-expected-to-resume-tomorrow/

Drug policy talks are expected to resume tomorrow
Posted by Mike Florio on September 7, 2014, 11:08 PM EDT
images.jpg?w=168

After a long week of negotiations regarding a new, comprehensive drug policy, the NFL and NFLPA rested — so that the players could go exert themselves for three or more hours.

Per a league source, the negotiations are expected to resume on Monday.

One of the major sticking points continues to be the NFL’s proposal that players will be deactivated with pay for one game following a DUI arrest. The NFLPA strongly opposes this idea, since it fails to take into account the possibility that the player actually may be innocent.

If adopted, the rule as a practical matter imposes an obligation on players to refrain from getting behind the wheel after having more than one drink. Anything more than that creates the risk of a potentially erroneous allegation.

Other issues remains. For example, the union wants players to retain the ability to challenge the science behind hGH testing after a positive test. And the question of whether PED/hGH violations not arising from a positive test will be subject to arbitration, or whether the Commissioner will handle the appeal, still lingers.

If an agreement can be reached, some suspensions could be lifted by Week Two. How big that “if” currently is remains to be seen.

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At the end of the day, the importance of the Gordon/Welker situations are small compared to the overall arc of what's being negotiated. Would seem like a throw-in concession for the NFL. With that said, if a new deal is reached, what exposure does the NFL have with regard to any future litigation filed by Gordon if new minimum levels are decided upon?

To the point above, there is some (if not a lot) negotiating being done in the media, I remember the NFL pushing the NFLPA during the lockout. Not surprising that there has been a pull back based on yesterday's 'any minute now' Florio report. One of, if not the primary issue the fans seem to care about is Gordon/Welker. So it's become a media pawn.

If I had to guess though, the NFL would have more to lose by keeping Gordon suspended, if a new deal reached. JMO though...

You mean one that fantasy football players care about and perhaps the Denver and Cleveland fans.

30 million people play FF. DEN/CLE fans probably number in the low 8 figures...sizable enough contingent.

Of the 30 million there is a small number who actually even know this is going on.

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La Canfora: Amnesty for currently suspended players unlikely

by Chris Towers | CBSSports.com

(10:32 am ET) Though the NFL and player's union are working toward a settlement numerous questions regarding the drug testing policy, CBS Sports NFL Insider Jason La Canfora reports that amnesty for players currently serving suspensions is not being strongly considered.

According to the report, neither side in the negotiations appears to be pushing for reductions to current suspensions for players like Wes Welker or Josh Gordon . At this point in the negotiations, it does not seem like a priority.

"Right now I don't see us reaching an agreement in the near term with or without player suspensions being lifted," a league source said.

Don't let this burst your bubble. It is all speculation. For every report like this there is another saying the contrary.

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/07/drug-policy-talks-expected-to-resume-tomorrow/

Drug policy talks are expected to resume tomorrow
Posted by Mike Florio on September 7, 2014, 11:08 PM EDT
images.jpg?w=168

After a long week of negotiations regarding a new, comprehensive drug policy, the NFL and NFLPA rested — so that the players could go exert themselves for three or more hours.

Per a league source, the negotiations are expected to resume on Monday.

One of the major sticking points continues to be the NFL’s proposal that players will be deactivated with pay for one game following a DUI arrest. The NFLPA strongly opposes this idea, since it fails to take into account the possibility that the player actually may be innocent.

If adopted, the rule as a practical matter imposes an obligation on players to refrain from getting behind the wheel after having more than one drink. Anything more than that creates the risk of a potentially erroneous allegation.

Other issues remains. For example, the union wants players to retain the ability to challenge the science behind hGH testing after a positive test. And the question of whether PED/hGH violations not arising from a positive test will be subject to arbitration, or whether the Commissioner will handle the appeal, still lingers.

If an agreement can be reached, some suspensions could be lifted by Week Two. How big that “if” currently is remains to be seen.

Don't let this get your hopes up. It's all speculation. For every report like this there is another saying the contrary.

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La Canfora: Amnesty for currently suspended players unlikely

by Chris Towers | CBSSports.com

(10:32 am ET) Though the NFL and player's union are working toward a settlement numerous questions regarding the drug testing policy, CBS Sports NFL Insider Jason La Canfora reports that amnesty for players currently serving suspensions is not being strongly considered.

According to the report, neither side in the negotiations appears to be pushing for reductions to current suspensions for players like Wes Welker or Josh Gordon . At this point in the negotiations, it does not seem like a priority.

"Right now I don't see us reaching an agreement in the near term with or without player suspensions being lifted," a league source said.

Don't let this burst your bubble. It is all speculation. For every report like this there is another saying the contrary.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/07/drug-policy-talks-expected-to-resume-tomorrow/

Drug policy talks are expected to resume tomorrow
Posted by Mike Florio on September 7, 2014, 11:08 PM EDT
images.jpg?w=168

After a long week of negotiations regarding a new, comprehensive drug policy, the NFL and NFLPA rested — so that the players could go exert themselves for three or more hours.

Per a league source, the negotiations are expected to resume on Monday.

One of the major sticking points continues to be the NFL’s proposal that players will be deactivated with pay for one game following a DUI arrest. The NFLPA strongly opposes this idea, since it fails to take into account the possibility that the player actually may be innocent.

If adopted, the rule as a practical matter imposes an obligation on players to refrain from getting behind the wheel after having more than one drink. Anything more than that creates the risk of a potentially erroneous allegation.

Other issues remains. For example, the union wants players to retain the ability to challenge the science behind hGH testing after a positive test. And the question of whether PED/hGH violations not arising from a positive test will be subject to arbitration, or whether the Commissioner will handle the appeal, still lingers.

If an agreement can be reached, some suspensions could be lifted by Week Two. How big that “if” currently is remains to be seen.

Don't let this get your hopes up. It's all speculation. For every report like this there is another saying the contrary.

Nice work georg013 :2cents:

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I feel like this is a coin flip right now.

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I feel like this is a coin flip right now.

Him playing this year, or playing in the next couple of weeks?

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I feel like this is a coin flip right now.

Him playing this year, or playing in the next couple of weeks?

Looking pretty good for him playing at some point, questions remains how much.

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I'm really surprised that the issues related to Goodell's power to discipline players slid thru the last CBA so smoothly. Seems like most of the current discussions should have been worked thru at that point.

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I feel like this is a coin flip right now.

Him playing this year, or playing in the next couple of weeks?

Looking pretty good for him playing at some point, questions remains how much.

Actually, it doesn't, depending on which reports you believe.

Fact is that there seems to be rampant speculation, not just in this thread, but by the talking heads (Schefter, Mort, etc). Their "sources" are contradicting each other left and right.

The whole retroactive lifting of suspensions thing is unprecedented, and I'd rather expect the worse & be pleasantly surprised if Gordon is re-instated, so I tend to believe that it won't happen.

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IMO Ray Rice video leaking today doesn't help the chances of Josh Gordon playing this year. Goodell looks ridiculously weak on the discipline side of his job right now and there's no reason for him to buckle on other offenses that players are currently suspended for.

This will now push out for the majority of the year, maybe even agreed to after the season is done.

Edited by Limp Ditka

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IMO Ray Rice video leaking today doesn't help the chances of Josh Gordon playing this year. Goodell looks ridiculously weak on the discipline side of his job right now and there's no reason for him to buckle on other offenses that players are currently suspended for.

This will no push out for the majority of the year, maybe even agreed to after the season is done.

not really. he could retroactively suspend rice under new policy and end suspensions of gordon and welker

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I'd say the opposite. I think Gordon's suspension now appears completely ridiculous in comparison to the punishment given to Rice. The NFL has already issued a tougher policy regarding punishment following domestic violence. Makes sense to me that they follow that up with a more reasonable policy regarding punishment of recreational drug use while also getting tougher on HGH. Any attempt to try and defend the length of the Welker and Gordon suspensions in light of the Rice video is now laughable.

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It sounds like the PA know they're going to get it, but the league still sees value in the issue as a bargaining chip. Hence the not so fast talk from that side.

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