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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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If Gordon goes somewhere else, he should show up in  a New York Knights Roy Hobbs jersey. That would be sweet.

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Good things it’s Josh Gordon with a hamstring injury. With most players we would be worried about it lingering all year, with Josh it’s just a reason to bump his projections

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I'd give it a 7% chance he plays again this year. Maybe the Browns drew a line in the sand and he went over it and that's that. If he did report a hamstring issue on a Saturday that is a big deal because the Browns obviously had him in the game plan for the week. There is a chance this isn't drug related.

The problem is 1) This has to be non drug related 2) A team will have to be interested in taking on this drama 3) He would have to make the team 4) learn a new play book 5) Stay clean 6) Be healed from his hammy 7) Get to meetings on time........Eh! nevermind!

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4 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Good things it’s Josh Gordon with a hamstring injury. With most players we would be worried about it lingering all year, with Josh it’s just a reason to bump his projections

I am not saying to bump his projections.  Just not thinking he has no value either. 

Rationally, in the right structure, he can be a productive player with a high game to game ceiling.  If he goes to the Patriots, I am thinking he can fill a role and be productive.  If he goes to the Bills, I might be cutting bait also based on the situation alone.

Personally, I think the Browns had a game plan built to showcase Gordon and he let them down. And like a girlfriend that had "enough", the first reaction was to cut bait.  I don't think they thought about it.  

IMO Gordon will be traded before tomorrow night.  The question right now (to me) is where does he land?  And then do they have a discipline structure that help him or will he be in another Cleveland situation. 

But I am not overly emotional about the event.  Sure, it is disappointing.  But it may not be a total loss.     

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4 minutes ago, Markus P Dub said:

Gordon is eyeing a trade to either the Dallas Cowboys or San Francisco 49ers, Ian Rapoport of NFL Network reports. 

You have to add Buffalo to this list.

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15 minutes ago, seahawk 17 said:

How do you pull a hamstring during a photo shoot?

When it includes a drone

Not sure that has been confirmed

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15 minutes ago, seahawk 17 said:

How do you pull a hamstring during a photo shoot?

By sprinting while trying to keep up with the drone that is recording you.

My guess is he came into the facility on Saturday limping, explained what happened and CLE was so dumbfounded that he would do that before a game that they said "#### it, we've hand enough" and released him.

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20 minutes ago, Mongidig said:

I'd give it a 7% chance he plays again this year. Maybe the Browns drew a line in the sand and he went over it and that's that. If he did report a hamstring issue on a Saturday that is a big deal because the Browns obviously had him in the game plan for the week. There is a chance this isn't drug related.

The problem is 1) This has to be non drug related 2) A team will have to be interested in taking on this drama 3) He would have to make the team 4) learn a new play book 5) Stay clean 6) Be healed from his hammy 7) Get to meetings on time........Eh! nevermind!

My own guess is that I'd give it a high likelihood that he's playing again somewhere else as soon as his hamstring is healthy. 

By all reported accounts, this has nothing to do with a drug suspension or a failed test of any kind.  Read into the "he wasn't himself" thing all you want.  Sounds like the Browns knew this was his last year in Cleveland, and with him pulling his hamstring in a video like that, they decided to cut bait now rather than wait it out in a year they clearly won't be competing anyways.

I haven't got a clue how it'll end up, and neither does anyone else no matter how emphatically they try to make their point.  We'll know more when we see who trades for him in the next 48 hours, and we probably won't know anything until then.

Edited by Steelers4Life
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7 minutes ago, Mongidig said:

The problem is 1) This has to be non drug related 2) A team will have to be interested in taking on this drama 3) He would have to make the team 4) learn a new play book 5) Stay clean 6) Be healed from his hammy 7) Get to meetings on time........Eh! nevermind!

"This has to be non drug related"

They have already said that he was late to a meeting and they had built a gameplan around him and he was honest about pulling a hamstring.

"A team will have to be interested in taking on this drama"

It has been reported there are "at least" 5 teams that immediately interested.

"He would have to make the team" 

Because the team would trade for him and then cut him? Reaching.

"learn a new play book"

As a WR, not so much.  No real blocking assignments.  He needs to know his route tree and what routes to run.  Timing would be a bigger issue. 

"Stay clean"

This hasn't changed.  He is sober.  Still. 

"Be healed from his hammy"

Yes.

"Get to meetings on time"

I agree, He needs a structure. He will probably need a sponsor who is a teammate to help him get that structure in place. 

 

My two reasons why he will play this year - 

1) The risk to any team is minimal. Low salary.  Easy to cut. Available for a low draft pick (most likely)  

2) the ceiling on Gordon is high. Gordon is uber-talented, in shape and eligible to play.

I don't think I need to go any farther.  That is enough in the NFL generally.

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17 minutes ago, Mongidig said:

I'd give it a 7% chance he plays again this year. Maybe the Browns drew a line in the sand and he went over it and that's that. If he did report a hamstring issue on a Saturday that is a big deal because the Browns obviously had him in the game plan for the week. There is a chance this isn't drug related.

The problem is 1) This has to be non drug related 2) A team will have to be interested in taking on this drama 3) He would have to make the team 4) learn a new play book 5) Stay clean 6) Be healed from his hammy 7) Get to meetings on time........Eh! nevermind!

Assuming he’s traded, I’d say it’s 7% he DOESN’T play this year.  No one will bother trading for him and not give him a chance to showcase his ability.  He did score last week so he’s not that rusty.  Now does he play in all 14 remaining games?  Maybe that’s closer to 7%.  I’m sure it won’t be without plenty of drama.

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2 minutes ago, Steelers4Life said:

I'd give it a high likelihood that he's playing again somewhere else as soon as his hamstring is healthy. 

By all reported accounts, this has nothing to do with a drug suspension or a failed test of any kind.  Read into the "he wasn't himself" thing all you want.  Sounds like the Browns knew this was his last year in Cleveland, and with him pulling his hamstring in a video like that, they decided to cut bait now rather than wait it out in a year they clearly won't be competing anyways.

I haven't got a clue how it'll end up, and neither does anyone else no matter how emphatically they try to make their point.  We'll know more when we see who trades for him in the next 48 hours, and we probably won't know anything until then.

It's always something with Gordon.  He's too high maintenance and not in a good way.  He's got one foot in the door and another in plain clothes. 

Edited by JohnnyU

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1 minute ago, Steelers4Life said:

Sounds like the Browns knew this was his last year in Cleveland, and with him pulling his hamstring in a video like that, they decided to cut bait now rather than wait it out in a year they clearly won't be competing anyways.

 

Why does it sound like that?

Gordon not a free agent after this year, Browns had this talent locked down for two years.

After five years, they decided a hammy injury was just too much?

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1 minute ago, Hairy Snowman said:

"This has to be non drug related"

They have already said that he was late to a meeting and they had built a gameplan around him and he was honest about pulling a hamstring.

"A team will have to be interested in taking on this drama"

It has been reported there are "at least" 5 teams that immediately interested.

"He would have to make the team" 

Because the team would trade for him and then cut him? Reaching.

"learn a new play book"

As a WR, not so much.  No real blocking assignments.  He needs to know his route tree and what routes to run.  Timing would be a bigger issue. 

"Stay clean"

This hasn't changed.  He is sober.  Still. 

"Be healed from his hammy"

Yes.

"Get to meetings on time"

I agree, He needs a structure. He will probably need a sponsor who is a teammate to help him get that structure in place. 

 

My two reasons why he will play this year - 

1) The risk to any team is minimal. Low salary.  Easy to cut. Available for a low draft pick (most likely)  

2) the ceiling on Gordon is high. Gordon is uber-talented, in shape and eligible to play.

I don't think I need to go any farther.  That is enough in the NFL generally.

Did you cut and paste this from 2015?

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42 minutes ago, massraider said:

There's going to be a rising tide of:

"Don't dance on someone's grave/this is an addiction/he needs help" yada yada yada.

We need to beat that down. For one thing, the Schadenfreude is directed at owners who held this dummy for FIVE years, or keep drafting him. Not towards Gordon. Well, there will be some people that will feel that way, but that'll be the usual ####heads. 

Cannabis is less addictive than sugar. He just didn't care enough about football, and maybe the millions he will never see. That's not a tragedy. It's a waste. Big deal. 

Gordon is not a tragic character. He's a dummy. He can go on and raise a family, maybe he'll be giving pep talks to high schools in a few years. Have a great life, no reason he can't.

So spare us the bleeding heart Behind the Music script. This story is about Gordon wasting good talent, and the owners who spent half a decade wasting resources on him.

So you think the story is over?

I understand the pessimism, but I'm not so sure.

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Just now, massraider said:

Why does it sound like that?

Gordon not a free agent after this year, Browns had this talent locked down for two years.

After five years, they decided a hammy injury was just too much?

My mistake, I thought this was his last year under contract.

Either way... when there hasn't been a single report yet that it had anything to do with drugs or anything, and every report is saying the same thing about their frustration over his hamstring injury, I don't really know what to make of things just yet.  I do know that I don't automatically defer to the Browns as an organization that makes the most well-thought out personnel decisions.  I think the hamstring injury doing something stupid 2 days before the game on a week they planned to increase his usage was just the final straw.  There's a very real chance that he ends up in a better situation this week.  What he does with that opportunity is just a guess by everyone.

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Notes on Josh Gordon’s impeding departure from the #Browns: His release was not a result of a substance abuse violation or failing a test. 

- Ian Rapoport

Is Gordon dumb? Hard to argue otherwise.

But pls drop the failed test narrative, because, and Ive said this multiple times in the past, I have a very sad feeling that some of you are rooting for it. I cant be convinced otherwise, since it comes up even tho ALL reports speak to the contrary. 

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2 minutes ago, Steelers4Life said:

My mistake, I thought this was his last year under contract.

Either way... when there hasn't been a single report yet that it had anything to do with drugs or anything, and every report is saying the same thing about their frustration over his hamstring injury, I don't really know what to make of things just yet.  I do know that I don't automatically defer to the Browns as an organization that makes the most well-thought out personnel decisions.  I think the hamstring injury doing something stupid 2 days before the game on a week they planned to increase his usage was just the final straw.  There's a very real chance that he ends up in a better situation this week.  What he does with that opportunity is just a guess by everyone.

Gordon will be a RFA next season so you were correct.

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5 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

It's always something with Gordon.  He's too high maintenance and not in a good way.  He's got one foot in the door and another in plain clothes. 

Absolutely Chuck.  Has been for several years.  And a less talented player would've been out of the league already, not about to be traded for by one of several teams who've already expressed interest.  If this was a drug thing again, it'd be easy to write him off.  Given that it's not (or at least hasn't been reported to be one), it'd be far more responsible to get the facts, see where he lands, what kind of opportunity he'll get, and then decide if his talent is worth the roster spot.  Problem is people are so excited to feel like they were "right" about something in a game where we're all wrong way more than we're right.

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3 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

So you think the story is over?

I understand the pessimism, but I'm not so sure.

We'll know more in a few weeks, but he hasn't been a fantasy asset I have considered for years. Years. 

I don't believe he'll come back and ever be a reliable fantasy start for anyone ever again, and that's why we're here.

The constant optimism, wanting to believe, reminds me why con artists will always be around. 

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1 minute ago, Soulfly3 said:

Notes on Josh Gordon’s impeding departure from the #Browns: His release was not a result of a substance abuse violation or failing a test. 

- Ian Rapoport

Is Gordon dumb? Hard to argue otherwise.

But pls drop the failed test narrative, 

Who is running with this narrative?

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37 minutes ago, massraider said:

If the Browns cut him, it wasn't because of a hammy injury. 

They have more info than any of us. Let's assume there's more to the story, and we can assume it had to do with his past. 

He doesn't need tho fail a test for the team to know. 

I never took a test, and my mom knew.

This is the Browns you're dealing with, so making good personnel decisions is not part of their history. Manziel and Trent Richardson come to mind immediately.

They got a feeling he was acting erratically? Whatever

If they are successful in trading him then it wasn't drug related. You know any team that gets him will make sure of that.

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14 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

Sad he's leaving my team. 

Why are you sad that your team is taking steps geared towards winning @Soulfly3 ?

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1 minute ago, JamieMurphy said:

This is the Browns you're dealing with, so making good personnel decisions is not part of their history. Manziel and Trent Richardson come to mind immediately.

They got a feeling he was acting erratically? Whatever

If they are successful in trading him then it wasn't drug related. You know any team that gets him will make sure of that.

I think getting the sucker Colts to give a first rd pick for Richardson was a good personnel decision. 

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Just now, JamieMurphy said:

This is the Browns you're dealing with, so making good personnel decisions is not part of their history. Manziel and Trent Richardson come to mind immediately.

They got a feeling he was acting erratically? Whatever

If they are successful in trading him then it wasn't drug related. You know any team that gets him will make sure of that.

What is part of their history is giving this dummy unlimited chances.

He pulls a hammy, they cut him. I cannot be the only person that thinks there's more ugly to this story.

I can't be.

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Just now, BassNBrew said:

Why are you sad that your team is taking steps geared towards winning @Soulfly3 ?

Browns are going to win about 6 this season with or without him. maybe 8 if things break well (which after week 1, who knows)

But they'd be a heck of a lot more electric with him. 

But excited for my mini-JG, Callaway. Own him everywhere too

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4 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Gordon will be a RFA next season so you were correct.

Browns offer a tender, he plays for that or doesn't play. They controlled him for 2018/2019.

This was not his walk year in CLE.

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10 minutes ago, massraider said:

Did you cut and paste this from 2015?

Is it POSSIBLE he is traded to the Patriots right now, as of this moment?

His valuation is simply in flux. 

He is leaving a team that has gone 1-31-1 in its last 33 games.  How much worse can it really get?

Maybe I will cut him from my FF teams.  Maybe not.  But I am already in for this ride and he did not fail a drug test.  

When he is traded, we will know more. 

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New England is not trading for him. The San Francisco angle makes a ton of sense though.

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1 minute ago, Hairy Snowman said:


He is leaving a team that has gone 1-31-1 in its last 33 games.  How much worse can it really get?
 

I'll take Buffalo Bills for $500, Alex.

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Just now, JohnnyU said:

I think getting the sucker Colts to give a first rd pick for Richardson was a good personnel decision. 

And they parlayed that first round pick into Johnny Manziel I believe. They had two first round picks that year

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13 minutes ago, massraider said:

We'll know more in a few weeks, but he hasn't been a fantasy asset I have considered for years. Years. 

I don't believe he'll come back and ever be a reliable fantasy start for anyone ever again, and that's why we're here.

The constant optimism, wanting to believe, reminds me why con artists will always be around. 

You may very well be right, but as long as it seems like he's beating addiction, I'm in.

Of course, like with anything else, it depends on the cost. If you already own him, no way you're out yet.

From all we know, Gordon has stayed clean & that's his biggest hurdle by far.

Edited by Football Jones
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1 minute ago, JamieMurphy said:

And they parlayed that first round pick into Johnny Manziel I believe. They had two first round picks that year

They wasted a pick on a stoner WR this one time too.

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7 minutes ago, massraider said:

What is part of their history is giving this dummy unlimited chances.

He pulls a hammy, they cut him. I cannot be the only person that thinks there's more ugly to this story.

I can't be.

You'r not. I think this will all be over within the next day or two. 

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Just now, massraider said:

They wasted a pick on a stoner WR this one time too.

My point being, the CLE front office has a history of making boneheaded personnel decisions. Realistically, cutting ties years ago made the most sense, but since they chose to stick with him, cutting ties now if he didn't fail a test is puzzling. Also not knowing that they could get something for him in a trade versus outright releasing him shows they really aren't good at their jobs.

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10 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

Browns are going to win about 6 this season with or without him. maybe 8 if things break well (which after week 1, who knows)

But they'd be a heck of a lot more electric with him. 

But excited for my mini-JG, Callaway. Own him everywhere too

Mini Gordon https://www.thehunt.com/the-hunt/x8MuoG-tiny-bong%21%21%21

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Just now, MAC_32 said:

New England is not trading for him. The San Francisco angle makes a ton of sense though.

Maybe.  Where ever he lands, he is going to need a strong structure, supervision and accountability.  If he goes to a "players coach", i think he may struggle.

 

2 minutes ago, massraider said:

I'll take Buffalo Bills for $500, Alex.

:D:D 

Maybe.  Disaster.  Maybe Gruden.  And maybe, maybe, even the Patriots... it isn't like the Patriots haven't traded for wide receivers before.  They did last year for Dorsett.  Randy Moss was a trade.  Just saying, it isn't unheard of.  Patriots like WRs looking for a last chance at redemption (if you hadn't noticed). 

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Well, so far Mort, Rappaport, Schefter and everyone else who has chimed in are all are reporting the same thing. 

They simply got to their breaking point regarding trust because of his hamstring injury, made a decision to release him and will now trade him.  And there's going to be interest as long as he didn't get into drug trouble again.  And there have been exactly zero reports that he has.

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26 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

"This has to be non drug related"

They have already said that he was late to a meeting and they had built a gameplan around him and he was honest about pulling a hamstring.

"A team will have to be interested in taking on this drama"

It has been reported there are "at least" 5 teams that immediately interested.

"He would have to make the team" 

Because the team would trade for him and then cut him? Reaching.

"learn a new play book"

As a WR, not so much.  No real blocking assignments.  He needs to know his route tree and what routes to run.  Timing would be a bigger issue. 

"Stay clean"

This hasn't changed.  He is sober.  Still. 

"Be healed from his hammy"

Yes.

"Get to meetings on time"

I agree, He needs a structure. He will probably need a sponsor who is a teammate to help him get that structure in place. 

 

My two reasons why he will play this year - 

1) The risk to any team is minimal. Low salary.  Easy to cut. Available for a low draft pick (most likely)  

2) the ceiling on Gordon is high. Gordon is uber-talented, in shape and eligible to play.

I don't think I need to go any farther.  That is enough in the NFL generally.

The Browns aren't gonna come right out and accuse him of being on drugs if he hasn't been tested. 

Teams are just doing their due diligence. Wait till they take a closer look and get more info. Then we will see who's interested.

You say it's low risk and they could always cut him so why couldn't a team trade for him and then cut him?

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11 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

Maybe.  Where ever he lands, he is going to need a strong structure, supervision and accountability.  If he goes to a "players coach", i think he may struggle.

 

:D:D 

Maybe.  Disaster.  Maybe Gruden.  And maybe, maybe, even the Patriots... it isn't like the Patriots haven't traded for wide receivers before.  They did last year for Dorsett.  Randy Moss was a trade.  Just saying, it isn't unheard of.  Patriots like WRs looking for a last chance at redemption (if you hadn't noticed). 

Patriots aren't dealing with someone who doesnt care about football. 

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@AdamSchefter 

Cleveland prefers to trade WR Josh Gordon out of the AFC, and to an NFC team, and that's the Browns' current intent, per sources. Gordon knows he has no say in where he is traded, but the two places he's hoping to land are with the San Francisco 49ers and the Dallas Cowboys.

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I once dated a girl who was super hot. I soon learned she had addiction issues. I stuck with her because I thought she could change...and she was hot. I soon realized that she was probably not gonna change but I stuck with her because she was hot. I then realized I couldn't handle her anymore and let her go......................................... But I got  back together with her...Because she's hot. She eventually moved on and now she is in jail.

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7 minutes ago, Soulfly3 said:

@AdamSchefter 

Cleveland prefers to trade WR Josh Gordon out of the AFC, and to an NFC team, and that's the Browns' current intent, per sources. Gordon knows he has no say in where he is traded, but the two places he's hoping to land are with the San Francisco 49ers and the Dallas Cowboys.

So a guy that can't help you win would help someone else beat you?

Does that say more about the guy or your franchise?

Trade him for a pair of Dr Scholl's shoe inserts from whoever will give them and be happy about it.

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15 minutes ago, Mongidig said:

The Browns aren't gonna come right out and accuse him of being on drugs if he hasn't been tested. 

Teams are just doing their due diligence. Wait till they take a closer look and get more info. Then we will see who's interested.

You say it's low risk and they could always cut him so why couldn't a team trade for him and then cut him?

"The Browns aren't gonna come right out and accuse him of being on drugs if he hasn't been tested. "

You don't think they could have had him tested him? Or that he hasn't been tested at this point or won't be before a trade?

"Teams are just doing their due diligence. Wait till they take a closer look and get more info. Then we will see who's interested."

I agree.  But the Browns apparently want him out on Monday.  That ####'s contaaaaagious....

"You say it's low risk and they could always cut him so why couldn't a team trade for him and then cut him?"

Apparently there may be some NFLPA restrictions on simply cutting him due to his veteran status (if I read above correctly).  But his salary is low, no baggage for next year.  If a team has the cap room, it is a no brainer if you think you can reclaim him.

@AdamSchefter  "Cleveland prefers to trade WR Josh Gordon out of the AFC, and to an NFC team, and that's the Browns' current intent, per sources. Gordon knows he has no say in where he is traded, but the two places he's hoping to land are with the San Francisco 49ers and the Dallas Cowboys."  

I don't know if either would be a particularly good spot for his sobriety.  I think if he stays sober he can be productive in either system though.  

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