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WR Josh Gordon, KC (16 Viewers)

Joe Bryant said:
I love this for Gordon. And not surprised at all Belichick would do this. He's got a long history of taking in troubled cast offs for a try. Some work out. Many don't. I don't get the impression it'll be any great loss for Belichick if it doesn't. For Gordon's sake, I love the opportunity. 

Here's the QBs Gordon has played with in the NFL:

Tyrod Taylor, Drew Stanton: Brandon Weeden, Colt McCoy, Jason Campbell, Thad Lewis, Brian Hoyer, Johnny Manziel, Connor Shaw, Josh McCown, Cody Kessler, DeShone Kizer, Robert Griffin III and Kevin Hogan.

Now Tom Brady. 

I like it. 
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In my dyno league I just traded Alex Collins for Gordon.  Gordon owner looked at this news as a reason to sell and desperately needed RBS.  I am strong at Rb and I view collins as solid but not spectacular.  Gordon could go the chad Johnson route in ne or the Randy moss route. Worth the risk to me. 

 
Soulfly3 said:
They never said this. Never. 
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Not exactly, but Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article insinuating CLE suspected his sobriety was in jeopardy. Worded in such a way with no attributable source, it caused thousands in yahoo leagues to drop him. IMO very irresponsible reporting. You don't play games with something like that, but FWIW it worked in JGs favor

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Except they also said they thought he’d relapsed, described him as a problem child & undisciplined & then said they’d release him.

so they ranked his value to stimulate the trade market?

i can’t see how the way they handled this possibly aided their cause. 

C’mon son. 
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I don’t believe anybody on the Browns publicly stated that they thought he relapsed. Some beat writers mentioned fear of a relapse through “anonymous” sources- but the Browns didn’t say that coupled with the announcement of his release. With that said- I don’t think there is a person on the planet that didn’t consider the possibility of a relapse when the Browns made the release announcement.  That fear would have existed regardless of any reports.

 
JamieMurphy said:
Not exactly, but Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article insinuating CLE suspected his sobriety was in jeopardy. Worded in such a way with no attributable source, it caused thousands in yahoo leagues to drop him. IMO very irresponsible reporting. You don't play games with something like that, but FWIW it worked in JGs favor
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MKC is a scourge on this club. She should be canned for that level of irresponsible reporting

 
TheDirtyWord said:
Couple of things:

1) One of the best insights of this seasons Hard Knocks was when Hue got news that Gordon was back in town and ready to continue his career.  He was giddy...Haley simply barked ‘is he in shape’.  Tony Grossi pointed this out, but Haley never bought in to Gordon as someone he could rely on/trust.

2) Haley is a guy that has to worry about job security.  Hoodie/Brady don’t.  Haley’s success in some ways was contingent on Gordon.  Belichick is kicking tires.  However, Belichick talks about the sacrifice he expects his team and players to make, they have to be all-in.  Gordon isn’t that.
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Moss was not that in Oakland.

Dillon was not that in Cincinnati.

Gordon might flame out.  If you hate the Pats, you'd better pray he does.

 
just imagine what this guy has to be for the Browns to put up with him for six years and then cut him without another positive test?

good luck with that.   

over/under 4 weeks.  

 
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TheDirtyWord said:
Couple of things:

1) One of the best insights of this seasons Hard Knocks was when Hue got news that Gordon was back in town and ready to continue his career.  He was giddy...Haley simply barked ‘is he in shape’.  Tony Grossi pointed this out, but Haley never bought in to Gordon as someone he could rely on/trust.

2) Haley is a guy that has to worry about job security.  Hoodie/Brady don’t.  Haley’s success in some ways was contingent on Gordon.  Belichick is kicking tires.  However, Belichick talks about the sacrifice he expects his team and players to make, they have to be all-in.  Gordon isn’t that.
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Haley started Gordon against the wishes of his head coach in Week 1 and in a game the media said he would play maybe 20-25 snaps, Haley had him in for 69.

 
Soulfly3 said:
They never said this. Never. 
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Correct. I do think it's important to recognize where info is coming from. The "he wasn't himself" stuff was Mary Kay Cabot. If it had been a drug test issue, he'd be out. 

I'm not sure if the true details behind what caused the change of heart for Cleveland will come out anytime soon. 

 
JohnnyU said:
What is the over/under for number of weeks before Gordon does something to either get cut or suspended?  I'll say 4.
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I think he will make it through the season. 

Willie McGinest said yesterday that the Pats would surround him with support, on and off the field.  Brady, BB, and Mr. Kraft can design a pretty good support system.  I am guessing JG will be "assigned" a teammate as a roommate year 1.  Just a guess.  Don't be surprised if it is a certain sober QB with a very large estate.   

As far as on the field, the Pats will not overload him with the whole playbook.  They will give him a small packet of 10-15 plays to learn.  They are going to teach him from the start (which will be perfect for JG).  JG is not ever coming close to the media until after the season. Maybe.  And if you don't think that Tom Brady knows how to live a sober life off the field...I give you avocado ice cream and Gisele. 

It could not have gone better for JG.  JG has gotten a terrific role model for sobriety in Tom Brady.  

If he is going to make it, this is his best shot.  I doubt he gets another.  It is all on him now. 

 
Jed said:
He'll probably sit until he's active for the last 9 games.
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After reading how the Patriots are approaching this, I really would not be surprised if he is in for a couple plays this week. If they are only giving him 10-15 plays to know for Sunday...I think JG can do that.  And then ease him into a bigger role.  

I don't think the Pats care about whether they give up a 5th.  They want to win a Superbowl this year. 

 
The Browns were used to him coming in late, rubbing his eyes and with bedhead from sleeping in late. Maybe he came in wide eyed, rested and raring to go. That threw up a red flag on the coaching staff since they aren't very bright to begin with as evidence of their choice of starting QB. 'He's on something, trade him!'.

 
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amnesiac said:
just imagine what this guy has to be for the Browns to put up with him for six years and then cut him without another positive test?

good luck with that.   

over/under 4 weeks.  




 
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That I think is the bigger question. And one we likely won't have an answer to. We don't know what - but something happened. And that something was enough to make them throw away all the work they've put into Gordon. That's not insignificant. 

 
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People who dislike Gordon or have been burned by him don't pay attention to the fact that he's been sober for well over a year now and won't acknowledge this had nothing to do with drugs.   The Browns haven't turned things around completely yet, but they were an absolute dumpster fire between 2013 and 2016.

  • First, Gordon missed 2 years and wasn't worth a roster spot.  Wrong.
  • Then it was, "He's skipping some training camp to get "treatment" and that MUST mean a suspension is coming.  Wrong.
  • Then it was, "See, the Browns are releasing him so it MUST be about drugs.  He's done.  Wrong.
  • Then it was, "Yeah, no way he's traded.  Who'd want this bum?"  Wrong.
  • Then it was, "OK, he might get traded to some stupid team." Wrong.
  • Then it was, "Fine, he's going to be traded, but it won't be to the Patriots - that'd be perfect, but they're too smart for that"  Wrong.
  • Now it's, "So he's traded to the Patriots.  He won't last there.  Not enough discipline and too dumb to learn the playbook!"  Well, the Patriots think that's wrong.
Look, if he's on the field, he'll be good.  I think anyone can agree with that.  The only reason to think he won't be is if you assume he'll suffer a relapse, and that's been looking less and less likely since 2016.  Doesn't mean it can't happen, but the fact that he sought help just to prepare for the season (and likely avoid Hard Knocks) speaks VOLUMES about how seriously he's taking this chance.  I don't even know how much I believe the whole thing about being late for meetings... based on what I've heard, I don't know that I believe a whole lot that comes from Cleveland media about the Browns, because they're just trying to shape public opinion in support of the team.  

People should root for the guy, because the league will be better if he's in it and performing well.

 
amnesiac said:
just imagine what this guy has to be for the Browns to put up with him for six years and then cut him without another positive test?

good luck with that.   

over/under 4 weeks.  




 
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I think the over/under should be days not weeks. I'm a dumb Gordon owner so I hope I am wrong. I wouldn't doubt Gordon getting released sooner than later when the Pats actually get an up close look. 

 
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The only thing I think that we all can agree on is that this is definitely his last chance.   Next year at this time, he will either be a top 10 wide receiver or out of football completely and permanently.

 
Joe Bryant said:
That I think is the bigger question. And one we likely won't have an answer to. We don't know what - but something happened. And that something was enough to make them throw away all the work they've put into Gordon. That's not insignificant. 
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I'm not sure why that's an issue at all at this point.  With everyone reporting and digging about this, I don't believe that it would still be covered up if something more significant had happened.  Based on every single report, it was because the Browns finally reached their breaking point when they spent a week game-planning with him heavily involved only to see him hurt his hamstring 2 days before gameday while doing a promo shoot.

If this was a first offense, it might've been forgiven.  After 6 years, it was amplified and an easy reason for them to cut ties with him over his lack of reliability.  If they want to change the culture of the Browns, they took a big step towards doing that.  The Pats don't have to worry about that - they already have a culture of winning, a disciplined organization, and veteran leadership in place that Cleveland never did.  Time will tell if that matters.  

 
Joe Bryant said:
That I think is the bigger question. And one we likely won't have an answer to. We don't know what - but something happened. And that something was enough to make them throw away all the work they've put into Gordon. That's not insignificant. 
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You think there was a "big" transgression?  You don't think that it was a "straw" that broke the camel's back?

Personally, I think there are some emotional coaches in Cleveland.  Heavily invested in players.  The management has become moneyball in their approach (and I really like their analytics), but the coaches still wear their hearts on their sleeves and do things a more old fashioned way (remember - "the sled hasn't changed...It is perfect").

I wouldn't doubt this was a line in the sand drawn by one of the coaches (or Tom Dorsey) and, whether it was innocent or not, coming in with a "hammy" that turned out wasn't really a "hammy" was just the straw that broke the camel's back.  But, on the other side, maybe expecting him to know the whole playbook without a training camp and to be the focus of the offense two weeks after he arrived maybe wasn't the right way to go either.  Maybe?

I suspect Josh told them that the routine in Cleveland, living there, was a trigger.  When he was there, he was always using.  He may just need a new start somewhere else. 

I love the drama.  This is going to play out in slow motion.  So much talent.  So much risk. 

 
Steelers4Life said:
People who dislike Gordon or have been burned by him don't pay attention to the fact that he's been sober for well over a year now and won't acknowledge this had nothing to do with drugs.   The Browns haven't turned things around completely yet, but they were an absolute dumpster fire between 2013 and 2016.

  • First, Gordon missed 2 years and wasn't worth a roster spot.  Wrong.
  • Then it was, "He's skipping some training camp to get "treatment" and that MUST mean a suspension is coming.  Wrong.
  • Then it was, "See, the Browns are releasing him so it MUST be about drugs.  He's done.  Wrong.
  • Then it was, "Yeah, no way he's traded.  Who'd want this bum?"  Wrong.
  • Then it was, "OK, he might get traded to some stupid team." Wrong.
  • Then it was, "Fine, he's going to be traded, but it won't be to the Patriots - that'd be perfect, but they're too smart for that"  Wrong.
  • Now it's, "So he's traded to the Patriots.  He won't last there.  Not enough discipline and too dumb to learn the playbook!"  Well, the Patriots think that's wrong.
Look, if he's on the field, he'll be good.  I think anyone can agree with that.  The only reason to think he won't be is if you assume he'll suffer a relapse, and that's been looking less and less likely since 2016.  Doesn't mean it can't happen, but the fact that he sought help just to prepare for the season (and likely avoid Hard Knocks) speaks VOLUMES about how seriously he's taking this chance.  I don't even know how much I believe the whole thing about being late for meetings... based on what I've heard, I don't know that I believe a whole lot that comes from Cleveland media about the Browns, because they're just trying to shape public opinion in support of the team.  

People should root for the guy, because the league will be better if he's in it and performing well.
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The basis of my argument comes from knowing people with addiction issues. I work with a guy who lived in a half way house for 9 years. He told me horror stories while battling his sobriety. I think people are underestimating how likely there will be a relapse. I personally think it's possible Gordon needs to be under the influence to handle the pressures of being in the league. Do you guy's really think that the Pats are going to create this great structure and support system that will some how keep Gordon under control?

The Browns parting way's with Gordon feels like someone who sells there car knowing full well the engine is about to go.

I wouldn't compare the Gordon situation with the Moss situation. Moss didn't have addiction issues and Moss played the previous year injured although not many people didn't know that. The Patriots are basically free rolling with Gordon. I wouldn't get excited until I see him in a game.

 
Underachievers said:
Next year at this time, he will either be a top 10 wide receiver or out of football completely and permanently.
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That's not much wiggle room.  Especially considering that Gronkowski and Edelman are still going to see a lot of volume, Hogan and Dorsett are also deep threats, and Brady passes to his running backs a lot.  There can definitely be a scenario where Gordon is a productive cog in the Patriots machine, but not a Top 10 receiver.

 
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Hairy Snowman said:
You think there was a "big" transgression?  You don't think that it was a "straw" that broke the camel's back?

Personally, I think there are some emotional coaches in Cleveland.  Heavily invested in players.  The management has become moneyball in their approach (and I really like their analytics), but the coaches still wear their hearts on their sleeves and do things a more old fashioned way (remember - "the sled hasn't changed...It is perfect").

I wouldn't doubt this was a line in the sand drawn by one of the coaches (or Tom Dorsey) and, whether it was innocent or not, coming in with a "hammy" that turned out wasn't really a "hammy" was just the straw that broke the camel's back.  But, on the other side, maybe expecting him to know the whole playbook without a training camp and to be the focus of the offense two weeks after he arrived maybe wasn't the right way to go either.  Maybe?

I suspect Josh told them that the routine in Cleveland, living there, was a trigger.  When he was there, he was always using.  He may just need a new start somewhere else. 

I love the drama.  This is going to play out in slow motion.  So much talent.  So much risk. 
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I have no idea what it was. It might have been a small thing that was the "last straw". But it was big enough to make them do something pretty drastic. We'll see. 

 
Mongidig said:
The basis of my argument comes from knowing people with addiction issues. I work with a guy who lived in a half way house for 9 years. He told me horror stories while battling his sobriety. I think people are underestimating how likely there will be a relapse. I personally think it's possible Gordon needs to be under the influence to handle the pressures of being in the league. Do you guy's really think that the Pats are going to create this great structure and support system that will some how keep Gordon under control?

The Browns parting way's with Gordon feels like someone who sells there car knowing full well the engine is about to go.

I wouldn't compare the Gordon situation with the Moss situation. Moss didn't have addiction issues and Moss played the previous year injured although not many people didn't know that. The Patriots are basically free rolling with Gordon. I wouldn't get excited until I see him in a game.
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I can see this. I think a lot of the "trade the car before the engine blows up" hinges though on how competent you feel the Browns are with evaluation. And if they're that much smarter than New England is. We'll see. 

 
Steelers4Life said:
People who dislike Gordon or have been burned by him don't pay attention to the fact that he's been sober for well over a year now and won't acknowledge this had nothing to do with drugs.   The Browns haven't turned things around completely yet, but they were an absolute dumpster fire between 2013 and 2016.

  • First, Gordon missed 2 years and wasn't worth a roster spot.  Wrong.
  • Then it was, "He's skipping some training camp to get "treatment" and that MUST mean a suspension is coming.  Wrong.
  • Then it was, "See, the Browns are releasing him so it MUST be about drugs.  He's done.  Wrong.
  • Then it was, "Yeah, no way he's traded.  Who'd want this bum?"  Wrong.
  • Then it was, "OK, he might get traded to some stupid team." Wrong.
  • Then it was, "Fine, he's going to be traded, but it won't be to the Patriots - that'd be perfect, but they're too smart for that"  Wrong.
  • Now it's, "So he's traded to the Patriots.  He won't last there.  Not enough discipline and too dumb to learn the playbook!"  Well, the Patriots think that's wrong.
Look, if he's on the field, he'll be good.  I think anyone can agree with that.  The only reason to think he won't be is if you assume he'll suffer a relapse, and that's been looking less and less likely since 2016.  Doesn't mean it can't happen, but the fact that he sought help just to prepare for the season (and likely avoid Hard Knocks) speaks VOLUMES about how seriously he's taking this chance.  I don't even know how much I believe the whole thing about being late for meetings... based on what I've heard, I don't know that I believe a whole lot that comes from Cleveland media about the Browns, because they're just trying to shape public opinion in support of the team.  

People should root for the guy, because the league will be better if he's in it and performing well.
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See, what I think would "speak volumes about how seriously he's taking this chance" would be Gordon not doing something so idiotic as to finally force the team that's given him every chance in the world over the past six years to release him....without a drug relapse.  If he was truly taking this chance that seriously, he'd be suiting up for the Browns this Thursday instead of the Patriots on Sunday. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
That I think is the bigger question. And one we likely won't have an answer to. We don't know what - but something happened. And that something was enough to make them throw away all the work they've put into Gordon. That's not insignificant. 
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thanks for the edit. 

 
Mongidig said:
The basis of my argument comes from knowing people with addiction issues. I work with a guy who lived in a half way house for 9 years. He told me horror stories while battling his sobriety. I think people are underestimating how likely there will be a relapse. I personally think it's possible Gordon needs to be under the influence to handle the pressures of being in the league. Do you guy's really think that the Pats are going to create this great structure and support system that will some how keep Gordon under control?

The Browns parting way's with Gordon feels like someone who sells there car knowing full well the engine is about to go.

I wouldn't compare the Gordon situation with the Moss situation. Moss didn't have addiction issues and Moss played the previous year injured although not many people didn't know that. The Patriots are basically free rolling with Gordon. I wouldn't get excited until I see him in a game.
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One, I never, ever compared Gordon to Moss.  Completely different situations in every way.

And two I think addiction has touched everyone in some way.  I don't underestimate that, and there's always a chance that he falls back and is out of the league sometime.  But there are also success stories... ever hear Chris Carter talk about an NFL coach and a change in scenery saving his life after the Eagles released him?  Yes, I believe the Patriots' organization and the structure and success that comes with it will do more for a guy like Josh Gordon than the dysfunction and losing environment he's been around in Cleveland.  The only question is if that's enough to keep him in line... but the thing is, it's probably been close to 2 years since he's had a relapse.  He was sober long enough to get reinstated, and he hasn't had any issues since.  People talk like it's been much more recent than that.  And that's a lot of progress by itself.

If he ultimately needs to be "medicated" in order to perform and handle life in the NFL, so be it... he won't last.  But I'm not going to discount the chance that he's got a long career left in him.  I'm a Steelers homer and I hate both the Browns AND the Patriots, but this was best case scenario for Josh Gordon from an NFL standpoint.

 
This is what was reported by Mary Kay Cabot:

When Gordon did show up at the Browns facility on Saturday "a little tardy,'' according to one of the sources, he complained of a pulled hamstring, but he was fine in practice on Friday, a league source told cleveland.com.  Team doctors examined him, and in addition to the tweaked hamstring, there was concern that perhaps he was struggling again with his sobriety or on the verge of relapsing, sources said.
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So for people who say they never said that, do they think she straight up made this up?

Its a rational assumption that if he was high he would get popped and we'd know about it but isn't it possible he was drunk?  I'm not sure we'll ever know the exact reason they finally released him, but I think the people saying this absolutely wasn't about his sobriety are just as ignorant as people assuming it had to have been about his sobriety.  We don't know what the exact reason is and we might never know.

About the only thing I know for sure is that its pretty odd that a team that has put up with so much for so long and was so excited to have him back (remember Hard Knocks and Hue telling Haley the plane landed) would suddenly turn around and cut him because he tweaked his hamstring during a photo shoot.  That is really the straw that broke the camel's back after all of these years?  It apparently wasn't even a bad injury, Ian Rapoport reported the Patriots did an MRI and his hamstring was fine.  While I want to believe that Josh will do well in NE, something about his release just doesn't add up to me.

 
NJ said:
This is what was reported by Mary Kay Cabot:

So for people who say they never said that, do they think she straight up made this up?

Its a rational assumption that if he was high he would get popped and we'd know about it but isn't it possible he was drunk?  I'm not sure we'll ever know the exact reason they finally released him, but I think the people saying this absolutely wasn't about his sobriety are just as ignorant as people assuming it had to have been about his sobriety.  We don't know what the exact reason is and we might never know.

About the only thing I know for sure is that its pretty odd that a team that has put up with so much for so long and was so excited to have him back (remember Hard Knocks and Hue telling Haley the plane landed) would suddenly turn around and cut him because he tweaked his hamstring during a photo shoot.  That is really the straw that broke the camel's back after all of these years?  It apparently wasn't even a bad injury, Ian Rapoport reported the Patriots did an MRI and his hamstring was fine.  While I want to believe that Josh will do well in NE, something about his release just doesn't add up to me.
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There's SO much room for interpretation in that kind of statement that it could be anything.  It could also be the Browns' organization leaking info out to shape public opinion to justify a move they're making to their fanbase, which they've been known to do with local reporters there.

It's quite literally the only report anywhere that said that.  And with everyone else who dug into the issue and reported on it, those concerns would've come out regularly.  At least that's what I'd expect.

Until someone reports something otherwise, I don't really have any reason to believe drugs had anything to do with his ultimate release no matter what his pre-2017 NFL life was like.  The biggest names in the media covering the NFL said that, and they're pretty connected too.

The Patriots paid a small price to have what the Browns could've had for free.  I personally trust the Patriots' decision making in this case more than the Browns.

 
Joe Bryant said:
I love this for Gordon. And not surprised at all Belichick would do this. He's got a long history of taking in troubled cast offs for a try. Some work out. Many don't. I don't get the impression it'll be any great loss for Belichick if it doesn't. For Gordon's sake, I love the opportunity. 

Here's the QBs Gordon has played with in the NFL:

Tyrod Taylor, Drew Stanton: Brandon Weeden, Colt McCoy, Jason Campbell, Thad Lewis, Brian Hoyer, Johnny Manziel, Connor Shaw, Josh McCown, Cody Kessler, DeShone Kizer, Robert Griffin III and Kevin Hogan.

Now Tom Brady. 

I like it. 
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@Joe Bryant He was dropped from WR28 to WR39 based on the top 200 forward.  That's a pretty significant fall from weekly starter to bye week option.  IMO that doesn't really fit "I like it".  That said, I agree that the move is downgrade for him as system outweighs QB IMO in this instance.

 
Underachievers said:
The only thing I think that we all can agree on is that this is definitely his last chance.   Next year at this time, he will either be a top 10 wide receiver or out of football completely and permanently.
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Unless he has a relapse and gets suspended/banned no way is this his last chance. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I have no idea what it was. It might have been a small thing that was the "last straw". But it was big enough to make them do something pretty drastic. We'll see. 
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It was more this than drug issues. Find me a player that gets tested more than Josh Gordon in the league, if it had anything to do with drugs or a relapse he wouldn't be in the league. Godell didn't just forget about him. This is a culmination of Gordon fatigue and his body of work off the field over the last 6 years. Keep in mind this is the second transgression under Dorsey (and maybe more that we don't know about). He skipped training camp under the auspice that he was not in a good place mentally and needed some time. The team acquiescest and welcomed him back albeit a tepid homecoming. I'm sure there were other things going on but ultimately the team didn't feel like they could rely on JG on Sundays which is what all this is about. He shows up late on Saturday (which has been a trademark for him) and claims he's hurt when he left the facility the day before in good shape. Rumors around that he was at the facility and ran a 90 minute workout/photoshoot at midnight and 'tweaked' the hammy.

It wasn't this last incident that prompted the trade, it was the culmination of 6 years of incidents and failure to show a change in his lifestyle or how he was approaching his job IMO.

 
BassNBrew said:
@Joe Bryant He was dropped from WR28 to WR39 based on the top 200 forward.  That's a pretty significant fall from weekly starter to bye week option.  IMO that doesn't really fit "I like it".  That said, I agree that the move is downgrade for him as system outweighs QB IMO in this instance.
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This is an odd reaction from Joe.  He said he likes the move but downgrades him.  

 
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