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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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Another data point showing Waldman is the best fantasy writer alive. 
 

Josh Gordon is the rabbit hole of football. Regardless of the angle you take, the subject of Josh Gordon holds the mirror up to our collective ignorance as fans and football analysts.

Make the argument that Gordon is an addict who will unlikely remain clean long enough to make an impact and the counter-argument is that Gordon's repeated opportunities are a sign that he's made enough progress in his recovery—despite steps backward that are expected for addicts early on—that he's continuing to earn more opportunities to play.

If you raise the point that Gordon is only earning these opportunities because he's a massive talent, then you can't argue that Gordon has greatly diminished as a performer. Unfortunately, when it comes to Gordon, they place wheels under the goalposts of their arguments against him.

And if your only argument is that Gordon is no longer as good as his reputation, then you're ignorant about the details of a player's fit with the scheme. You may also be in denial about the substance of Tom Brady's game, which is a rampant focal point of ignorance from a variety of perspectives due to the polarizing emotions attached to his career.

Most of all, Josh Gordon holds the mirror up to fans and analysts about the nature of talent and how little we understand this prized commodity despite our constant obsession over who has it, who lacks it, and can they somehow develop it. [\quote]

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Or you could have brought up every single point Matt Waldman does for three hundred pages now, as people here have done on their own.  

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On 11/20/2019 at 8:46 AM, bostonfred said:

There might not be a reason not to believe that Gordon's role doesn't increase, but there's also no reason not to believe that Gordon's role doesn't not decrease, either. 

"Truly, you have a dizzying intellect" 

 

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On 11/23/2019 at 12:32 PM, Hooper31 said:

Another data point showing Waldman is the best fantasy writer alive. 
 

 

We blaming Wilson now?

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Week 10 Gordon plays 37% of snaps 10 days after being signed.  He makes two crucial catches.  He has a Week 11 bye to become more integrated into the offense.  He plays 34% of snaps in Week 12.  No bueno.

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Quote

Josh Gordon caught his lone target for 10 yards in the Seahawks' Week 13 win over the Vikings.

His patented play since joining the Seahawks, Gordon caught a third-down slant to give Seattle a first down. That's all he's been good for since coming over from New England. Gordon has four catches for 47 scoreless yards across three games. He doesn't see nearly enough of the field to be a fantasy option.

Dec 3, 2019, 12:25 AM ET

 

 

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On 11/24/2019 at 5:49 PM, BassNBrew said:

Thank goodness we learn our lesson from seasons past and start L Murray today

Building on this, benched Gordon for Jeffrey this week.  Wished I'd figured on the bench this bum for a stud on your bench strategy years ago.

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On 11/23/2019 at 12:32 PM, Hooper31 said:

Another data point showing Waldman is the best fantasy writer alive. 
 

 

Update?

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5 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Update?

Is one needed? Waldman is the best. If you disagree feel free to elaborate. 

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1 minute ago, Hooper31 said:

Is one needed? Waldman is the best. If you disagree feel free to elaborate. 

Other than being wrong more often than not, I guess he's the best.

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8 hours ago, Hooper31 said:

Is one needed? Waldman is the best. If you disagree feel free to elaborate. 

How about if you declare something? The burden of proof is on you to come up with reasons for a pretty hyperbolic comment. You're the one throat punching ponies for repeating things they heard from broadcasts and linking to nothing in lieu of.

Perhaps you can try something out that leads to something productive instead of uttering declarations as gospel.

Edited by rockaction

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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

How about if you declare something? The burden of proof is on you to come up with reasons for a pretty hyperbolic comment. You're the one throat punching ponies for repeating things they heard from broadcasts and linking to nothing in lieu of.

Perhaps you can try something out that leads to something productive instead of uttering declarations as gospel.

Fair enough. 

His Weekly Top 10 is a fantastic read each week. He's not married to anyone in the NFL when it comes to evaluation and backs up his opinions with outstanding objective observations all the time. His observations are based in the same format that he utilizes to scout players coming into the NFL. It's not based in like or dislike. He has a system of evaluation that mirrors the way a professional scout evaluates any talent. it's refreshing and unemotional.

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1 hour ago, Hooper31 said:

Fair enough. 

His Weekly Top 10 is a fantastic read each week. He's not married to anyone in the NFL when it comes to evaluation and backs up his opinions with outstanding objective observations all the time. His observations are based in the same format that he utilizes to scout players coming into the NFL. It's not based in like or dislike. He has a system of evaluation that mirrors the way a professional scout evaluates any talent. it's refreshing and unemotional.

Thanks, Hooper31. For what it's worth, I read him, too, and find him an excellent and dispassionate evaluator. 

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Quote

Josh Gordon caught 2-of-5 targets for 34 yards in Week 14 against the Rams.

It's another nondescript game for Gordon, who finished behind D.K. Metcalf and Jacob Hollister in targets. This was his best game since coming over from the Patriots, but Gordon has still has to catch more than two passes in any game. Gordon's snaps could start to go up, but he's not a fantasy option right now.

Dec 8, 2019, 11:56 PM ET

 

 

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On 12/3/2019 at 12:15 PM, Hooper31 said:

Fair enough. 

His Weekly Top 10 is a fantastic read each week. He's not married to anyone in the NFL when it comes to evaluation and backs up his opinions with outstanding objective observations all the time. His observations are based in the same format that he utilizes to scout players coming into the NFL. It's not based in like or dislike. He has a system of evaluation that mirrors the way a professional scout evaluates any talent. it's refreshing and unemotional.

He’s a great read, but so was the fiction The Lord of the Rings.  Obviously the evaluation model isn’t working. 

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Same drill as every year. Fourth on his team in rec stats.  Wr #71 on the week with a game to play.   Playoff bust

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This thread was much more fun when the denials were plausible.  

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5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

This thread was much more fun when the denials were plausible.  

Wilson is clearly the problem. 

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41 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Wilson is clearly the problem. 

Won't hold the ball long enough for Josh to get open. 

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42 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Won't hold the ball long enough for Josh to get open. 

Arm isn’t strong enough for Gordon’s outstanding athletic Ability

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24 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Arm isn’t strong enough for Gordon’s outstanding athletic Ability

You capitalized "A" in ability like Hester Prynne. Josh should have to publicly wear the "A" for the rest of life, indebted to fantasy GMs everywhere. 

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Suspended indefinitely for violating the substance abuse policy per Adam Caplan 

Link

edited to add link 

Edited by whole-show

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Just so I can reiterate for the 100th time: THIS IS NOT A WEED PROBLEM! 

They don’t disclose what is failing them, I would put a large chunk of change on it being hard drugs causing the repeated failures. This is the end though. 

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NFL suspended Seahawks WR Josh Gordon indefinitely.

Gordon has been suspended indefinitely without pay for violating the NFL policies on performance-enhancing substances and substances of abuse. It marks the fifth time that the NFL has suspended Gordon for violating the league's policy. He finished his tenure with the Seahawks with just seven receptions for 139 scoreless yards in five games.

 

Edited by The Frankman

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While unsurprising, it Is a little bit sad. i was kinda hoping he was on the right track. 
 

that said, his release by the WR-starved Pats makes sense. I don’t understand why it took this long though. 

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7 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

for violating the NFL policies on performance-enhancing substances and substances of abuse

Both?  So not just weed?  PEDs too?

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13 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

While unsurprising, it Is a little bit sad. i was kinda hoping he was on the right track. 
 

 

My feeling as well.  Doesn't seem like a bad guy.

Even though he was playing for the Seahawks, I was hoping he could stay on track.  Unfortunate.

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10 minutes ago, iamkoza said:

so was his last NFL recorded stat an INT?

Seems so. No way he comes back. 

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20 minutes ago, matttyl said:

Both?  So not just weed?  PEDs too?

NFL does not consider weed a "substance of abuse"  - that's saved for harder drugs that Gordon has a long history of....

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3 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

It's not really that sad anymore. That ended after chance #3, IMO.

I mean, it’s always sad. Maybe no shock to it any more, but it’s never not sad when anyone succumbs to addiction like that.

As someone who’s dabbled in recreational enhancements but doesn’t have a very addictive personality, it’s hard for me to imagine trading getting high for an NFL career.

but then, I’m the kind of guy who can have a single beer with dinner, and move on with my evening while others I know are incapable of that sort of moderation. 

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Dude is done. One of the biggest “what if’s” in recent history. Had one of the best seasons ever in 2013 despite being suspended the first 2 games

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I have been a Gordon supporter for along time.  Years. 

However, when he was not able to stick with New England, I knew that there was an issue.  It was a big red flag.  I knew the support staff that they had surrounded him with.  I suspected he had violated the substance abuse policy there.  This confirms that in my mind.  

I doubt Josh is going to make it back on the field again also.  I think that was it for him.  A shame.

Wish Josh Gordon the best moving forward.

Edited by Hairy Snowman
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2 minutes ago, sports_fan said:

Dude is done. One of the biggest “what if’s” in recent history. Had one of the best seasons ever in 2013 despite being suspended the first 2 games

Not to mention likely being high AF the whole time. 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Not to mention likely being high AF the whole time. 

I am more willing to bet he was never able to recapture his previous abilities and was looking for a way to do that.  Most athletes will do anything to compete.  It is a shame for JG.   

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48 minutes ago, whole-show said:

Suspended indefinitely for violating the substance abuse policy per Adam Caplan 

Link

edited to add link 

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

What a big dummy.

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1 minute ago, Hairy Snowman said:

I am more willing to bet he was never able to recapture his previous abilities and was looking for a way to do that.  Most athletes will do anything to compete.  It is a shame for JG.   

I thought he’d said he played high all the time in college & in the magical season. 

i agree he may have thought, “oh, I need to be high - that’s what worked so well before!” because addicts tell themselves stuff like that all the time to justify getting high. 

I honestly was rooting for him in Seattle. Thought he’d finally put it behind him. I can’t imagine what the future looks like for JG now. “Bleak” come to mind. 

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7 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

It's not really that sad anymore. That ended after chance #3, IMO.

It's still ok to feel empathy for someone who has an addiction.

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There’s no addiction.  He just doesn’t care about football and never has. He comes back long enough to make a million or two and just takes the rest of the year off. He’ll do the same thing next year 

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Last catch in an NFL game will be 58 yards, some guys never make a 50 yard catch their entire careers, tragedy and waste of talent.

I used to wish that he would get the help he needed but this is going to go down a long dark path that will likely end with Gordon leaving this World a little before he should, just my gut feelings at this point. 

Edited by Ministry of Pain
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1 minute ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Last catch in an NFL game will be 58 yards, some guys never make a 50 yard catch their entire careers, tragedy and waste of talent.

I used to wish that he would get the help he needed but this is going to go down a long dark path that will likely end with Gordon leaving this World a little before he should, just my gut feelings at this point. 

Did he study something in college that makes you think he’ll become an astronaut?

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28 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I mean, it’s always sad. Maybe no shock to it any more, but it’s never not sad when anyone succumbs to addiction like that.

As someone who’s dabbled in recreational enhancements but doesn’t have a very addictive personality, it’s hard for me to imagine trading getting high for an NFL career.

but then, I’m the kind of guy who can have a single beer with dinner, and move on with my evening while others I know are incapable of that sort of moderation. 

 

7 minutes ago, seahawk 17 said:

It's still ok to feel empathy for someone who has an addiction.

I’d be willing to agree if it wasn’t PED’s. Even if it was both, the PED’s were a choice, not an addiction.

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