Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Brown already out there calling this “fake news”. Hahaha. He doesn’t want to believe it.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter GroveDiesel
- Start date
Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
Apparently Jordan Poyer (Bills Safety) was married to Rachel Bush. She cheated on him with... Antonio Brown. Something I just read. That would be a fun locker room.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Whew.
I agree, but it's still a knock against the front office IMO that they got as close as they apparently did.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
How is that a knock? I'm not a fan of bringing in a guy that I think would be toxic, but I also can't blame them for looking into acquiring a guy who may be the best WR in the league either.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I hope the Bills kick the tires on every WR, TE and OL who might even remotely be available.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
I think this fiasco makes the Bills organization look bad. There was no way Brown was ever going to be willing to come here. Now we’re the butt end of a joke as the “worst possible place” for Brown to get traded to.
What FA is going to want to come here unless we over pay them?
They did more than "look into" or "kick the tires" on him, they (reportedly) agreed to a deal. Not a fan of bringing a guy who seems to be losing his mind to the team in the first place, but why bother going as far as they did without seeing if he'd actually play for you first?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I don't for sure, but it sure seems that way.
Regardless, Brown to the Bills seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
So your argument is that Beane would have been doing a better job if he didn't even bother looking into acquiring a top 5 WR at a discount? That's ridiculous. It would have been malpractice not to look into it.
And guys that would decide not to come to Buffalo because Brown didn't want to are guys that already wouldn't have gone to Buffalo. This changed nothing.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Teams don't let you negotiate with the agent of the player until they are close to a deal. Otherwise 10 teams expressing interest would be trying to negotiate contracts. Doesn't make much sense...
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
You think it looks bad for the Bills? They were willing to address one of the biggest deficiencies on their roster with one of the most talented WRs in the league. That speaks volumes to the fan base that they're going to seriously address these issues. I'd much rather the team try to get AB than to go into the season with Foster, Zay Jones and God knows who else as their only options. People were flipping out about the idea of Buffalo going after Devin Funchess, but nothing seems to be good enough anymore.
As far as how it looks to everybody else. Who looks worse, the team that tried to acquire a star talent, or the player who posted on Social Media "if your team got guaranteed money... call me", then refused to go to the one team who was willing to give up the value Pittsburgh wants AND pay you... seems pretty clear to me. AB wanted guaranteed money. A team was willing to give it to him, but he thinks he's going to land on a playoff team who is going to pay top dollar to acquire him and pony up guaranteed cash. News flash, they're playoff teams for a reason, they generally don't have dire needs.
As for your last point. Who is going to want to come here unless we overpay? When is the last time we had to overpay to get a guy? McCoy? I remember when we landed Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde, they weren't Earth shattering moves, but they sure as well paid dividends. If a player is too ignorant to learn about the city/team trying to pursue him, then they really ought to stay the hell away.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
My understanding is that Pittsburgh wouldn't allow teams to contact Brown directly and told Brown they would "keep him in the loop." What happened after that is unknown. Were the Bills going to agree to a deal without getting affirmation from him that he would go along? Seems doubtful. Seems like either the Bills and Steelers never got to a point of agreeing on compensation and so the Bills walked away, or it got to the point where Brown got looped in and he let it be known that he wouldn't play for the Bills and it killed the deal.
While I may be relieved that they didn't bring that cancer in, I think it's hard to kill the Bills for looking into grabbing a future HOF WR at a discount. The Patriots did the same thing with Randy Moss and it worked out pretty well.
It's not a contract, it's "hey, if we can work something out would you come play here"?Tommy Collins said:
Yeah, we don't really know how or what went down. I'm not killing them, but does anyone think there was any chance on earth Brown would have agreed to go to the Bills? If he did, does anyone think he would have lasted more than 1/2 a season without causing chaos? He saved the front office from themselves IMO.GroveDiesel said:
The Moss/Brown situations are night and day.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Obviously he didn't, but it would have been foolish not to at least try.
LeSean McCoy wasn't thrilled to be traded to Buffalo but ended up being pretty happy overall.
There are plenty of other Bills that didn't really want to be in Buffalo at first but came to absolutely love playing for the Bills. Guys like Jim Kelly, Ross Tucker, Lorenzo Alexander, and many many more.
There's nothing lost in taking a chance and trying to convince a guy that he would be happy playing for the team.
I'm with you in that I think the Bills got lucky because I think that Brown may have other issues going on affecting his decision making abilities. I'm not sure that he's actually going to work out well anywhere because I think his off-field stuff may continue. As much as I hate it, I think the only teams he could temporarily thrive in before combusting would be NE, NO and SEA. Teams with great QBs, stable leadership and team leaders that he would respect, and teams with a very obvious chance to win a Super Bowl.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Now we’re afrer Frank Clark? Can’t imagine he’ll come cheap.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I couldn't disagree more with the first sentence, because I agree with the last sentence.Mr. Peterson said:
The Bills organization isn't negotiating on a level playing field in free agency which is why they come out looking great whether they were able to work out a deal with AB or not. They were aggressive in finding the best possible target for Josh Allen(after completely hosing him as a rookie in terms of talent at the receiving position). They did their part, the fan base has to be happy with the Bills and AB looks like the bad guy.
The Steelers found a trade partner and from the sounds of it were ready to deal AB which is what he said he wanted. Not only that but they were even willing to trade him to a team that in the top 5 in cap space. Steelers also come out looking great in all this.
AB is the only one in all this that comes out looking bad. He wanted out of PIT. Check. He wants more $. Check. And the guys is still not happy. Someone may want to tap him on the forehead and remind him that he's not a FA. He has never been shy about looking like a prima donna in the past(my team scored a TD.... but, but I was open!) but it's going to lengths now he's already poisoned any interest half the league might have had in him. I'm starting to wonder if anyone(that AB will ALLOW himself to get traded to) will give up even a day 2 pick. And if PIT has to settle for a day 3 pick..... haven't they shown just recently they are more than willing to let a star sit out an entire season if he so chooses? At this point I would love to see AB just sit out the season. He doesn't need football after all. Just ask him.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Completely agree, and this is a draft where you could very easily come away with not one but THREE possible starting receivers. Both the WR and TE positions look deeper than normal and the guys they are competing with aren't exactly world beaters. And they come at the fraction of the price and aggravation of a 30yo WR.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Not a fan of the Kroft signing.
Going to wait to see the numbers on Johnson’s contract before having an opinion, but he can be good in our system if he stays healthy.
Going to wait to see the numbers on Johnson’s contract before having an opinion, but he can be good in our system if he stays healthy.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Kroft seems like a reasonable signing to me. If a TE drops to us in the draft, wonderful. If not, at least our hands aren't forced.
The Morse signing helps the line a lot and addresses a massive area of need. I'll wait for contract numbers but that's a position that I just care if we overpaid a little.
The Morse signing helps the line a lot and addresses a massive area of need. I'll wait for contract numbers but that's a position that I just care if we overpaid a little.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Nice. Didn’t see the Morse signing. Of course, if it’s a bad contract then, eh. But we desperately needed to do something on O-line.
And Kroft is a below average.... nothing special kind of guy. But he’s getting paid like a starter already. Don’t know what James got, but would’ve much preferred him. As long as it doesn’t prevent them from taking a shot on a TE in the draft I’ll be ok with it. Even if it’s someone in the 5th.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Early reactions:
I like the Johnson and Morse signings. $11M/y is a lot for a center, but he's a really good one and good centers are worth it IMO.
I'm ambivalent about the Gore signing. He can still play, is a hard worker and good character guy. And $2M isn't a big deal. But the Bills now have the 3 oldest RBs in the league on their roster. So...they really need to grab a young one somewhere.
Not a huge fan of the Kroft signing. $6M a year isn't crippling or anything, but this move doesn't do much for me and I think they overpaid.
I like the Johnson and Morse signings. $11M/y is a lot for a center, but he's a really good one and good centers are worth it IMO.
I'm ambivalent about the Gore signing. He can still play, is a hard worker and good character guy. And $2M isn't a big deal. But the Bills now have the 3 oldest RBs in the league on their roster. So...they really need to grab a young one somewhere.
Not a huge fan of the Kroft signing. $6M a year isn't crippling or anything, but this move doesn't do much for me and I think they overpaid.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
They should still have a ton of money, T.Williams and Allen's arm would potentially be a great combination.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Actually, Kroft’s contract is not that bad according to sources.
“With $6.3M guaranteed at signing, all in 2019, Tyler Kroft’s 3 year $18.75M contract w/ the #Bills can very easily become a 1 year $6.9M deal. Another $2.75M of guarantees kick in March 2020.”
“With $6.3M guaranteed at signing, all in 2019, Tyler Kroft’s 3 year $18.75M contract w/ the #Bills can very easily become a 1 year $6.9M deal. Another $2.75M of guarantees kick in March 2020.”
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Mitch Morse contract details according to sources:
“Got the full numbers on the Mitch Morse deal with the #Bills and it’s a whopper: four years, $44.5 million with $26.5 million guaranteed. He gets $19.5M in Year 1 and $28.375M by Year 2. The $11.125M APY is the new bar for centers.”
“Got the full numbers on the Mitch Morse deal with the #Bills and it’s a whopper: four years, $44.5 million with $26.5 million guaranteed. He gets $19.5M in Year 1 and $28.375M by Year 2. The $11.125M APY is the new bar for centers.”
They had to make a move at OL (hopefully they aren't done there), but it's pretty risky making him the highest paid C in the league considering he's missed 14 games over the last 2 seasons.
No idea what they're doing signing Gore, not a lot of money but makes zero sense.
No idea what they're doing signing Gore, not a lot of money but makes zero sense.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Adding a body to the depth chart and a veteran presence in the locker room. I can't imagine anybody expects him to put up a bunch of yardage, but his deal is basically a freebie.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
If Bills can sign RT Daryl Williams to a favorable contract then they’ll be free to attack the draft however they wish. I worry if we don’t sign a RT then Beanne might be forced to use the 9 on an OT.
They're already one of the oldest teams in the league, I don't think they need another veteran presence (especially at RB). Not a lot of money, but it is double what he made last year.
Just think using it pretty much any other way would have been better. It'll change after Bell signs, but they now have the oldest, most expensive RB group in the NFL, and they aren't terribly productive- not a winning strategy at all.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Surprised we signed both but I don’t mind the contracts. WR room going to look quite different next year.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Bills going to have a lot more speed at WR next year. Plays well to Allen's strengths.
Bills have made a bunch of moves and spent a bunch of money already. Which they needed to do since they had a lot of holes to fill, a lot of money to spend, and apparently are the least desirable destination in the entire league.
All in all, I don't think they've wildly overspent so far. And they certainly have given themselves more flexibility in the draft. In fact, I'm even more of a fan of them trading down if possible.
Bills have made a bunch of moves and spent a bunch of money already. Which they needed to do since they had a lot of holes to fill, a lot of money to spend, and apparently are the least desirable destination in the entire league.
All in all, I don't think they've wildly overspent so far. And they certainly have given themselves more flexibility in the draft. In fact, I'm even more of a fan of them trading down if possible.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
I agree. I think the only contract that is a tough one was Morse. But even that is so front loaded that if he doesn’t work out we can move on from him.
And I’m a big fan of trading down at this point too. Hopefully we can move down some and still grab Hockenson or an OT if we don’t sign one in FA still.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I like what they've done so far. They signed a bunch of affordable guys who address glaring areas of need. I'd far prefer to get better across the board and draft BPA than to blow a ton of money on one or two guys and go into the draft with a bundle of holes to fill.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
When you look at the details of the contracts, they actually aren’t that bad. Most are front loaded. Which is good for us because this year and next we have a TON of cap space and not many guys to resign. So load up all the contacts during these next two years and if any of them don’t work out we can move on.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Looks like we just signed our next RT.
“The Bills signed Ty Nsekhe to a two-year deal worth $14.5 million with $7.7 million guaranteed, his agent Vincent Taylor of Elite Loyalty said. Certainly means he’s projected to start at right tackle. Nsekhe turns 34 in October and was never a full-time starter for WAS.”
“The Bills signed Ty Nsekhe to a two-year deal worth $14.5 million with $7.7 million guaranteed, his agent Vincent Taylor of Elite Loyalty said. Certainly means he’s projected to start at right tackle. Nsekhe turns 34 in October and was never a full-time starter for WAS.”
The only really good player they added they had to make the highest paid C in the league, and he has injury concerns. I'd say that the only position they aren't going to consider in the draft out of those signed is center- everything else can still use an upgrade IMO.
You almost always draft (and sign) based on BPA, not need. Free agency and the draft look very defense heavy this year, it would be a big mistake to ignore that side of the ball.
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
Nothing overly great or overly horrible. They're addressing offensive depth, which has been an issue for years. Seems like they want a lot of veterans on the offense, maybe to take some of the pressure off the coaching staff and young QB. And maybe because they are eyeing defense in the draft.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Brandon Thorn @BrandonThornNFL 2h2 hours ago
Huge Ty Neskhe fan..first noticed him in 2016. Best position is LT. Massive dude with length to match, really good overall hand usage, and is a crafty, smart run-blocker.
Terron ArmsteadVerified account @T_Armstead72
Bills got a STEAL!!!
12:13 PM - 12 Mar 2019
-------------------------------------
Warren SharpVerified account @SharpFootball 2h2 hours ago
Love the Ty Nsekhe signing by the Bills. Filled in at LT multiple games, zero sacks & just 5 hurries allowed in 195 snaps as LT. And absolutely toyed with Clowney in week 11. Every pass rep vs Clowney this vid via @BrandonThornNFL. 2nd rep is nuts. Every pass rep vs Clowney this vid
Last edited by a moderator:
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
After seeing Paradis contract with Panthers, I’m starting to really think we overpayed Morse.
But whatever, we got our guy.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Maybe. But we still don't know the guaranteed money for Paradis, what his health is like, etc. And not for nothing, but Morse is also 3 years younger than Paradis.
ETA: But yeah, anytime you're giving out the biggest contract in NFL history to a non-QB, you gotta question the wisdom.
Last edited by a moderator:
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
Paradis lost
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Bills added another OG to the roster in Jon Feliciano.
I like that they're going out and trying to rebuild the O-line. It was a sieve last year and significantly hampered both the offense overall and Allen's development. If they manage to fix the line, I think Allen has a much better chance to develop properly.
Couple that with adding some speed at WR and I think they're heading in the right direction. Sure, trading for Antonio Brown or ODB would have been awesome, but I think they're headed in the right direction generally.
And let's not forget the Duke Williams (WR) signing. I think he's intriguing and could be a super sleeper.
I like that they're going out and trying to rebuild the O-line. It was a sieve last year and significantly hampered both the offense overall and Allen's development. If they manage to fix the line, I think Allen has a much better chance to develop properly.
Couple that with adding some speed at WR and I think they're heading in the right direction. Sure, trading for Antonio Brown or ODB would have been awesome, but I think they're headed in the right direction generally.
And let's not forget the Duke Williams (WR) signing. I think he's intriguing and could be a super sleeper.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
We knew going into the offseason that the offense was in sorry shape, and that we needed help all along the O-line and probably across the board at WR. Including Spencer Long and Duke Williams, we've acquired:
4 OLs
1 TE
3 WRs
1 RB and geriatric nutrition specialist
1 CB
And I wouldn't be at all surprised if we had another significant signing coming --- we certainly have the money for it. Some of these folks fall squarely into the "quality depth" category, but particularly on offense they all figure to be upgrades over the the guy they're replacing, and they're all on affordable and mostly front-loaded contracts that aren't going to cause cap problems down the road.
There's no huge Mario Williams signing in here, but that's fine, because this team needed a lot more than just one guy to get things turned around. We substantially upgraded the overall quality of our offense and should be in really excellent shape headed into the draft.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Does anyone think this takes us out of the running to select an OL or WR in the first?
After FA I’m starting to think Beanne is going to go best DL available.
I don’t think I’d be too upset if they went Hockenson. We do need a TE upgrade and a big red zone threat. We need a guard or tackle but now have the ability to develope one from a later pick. Metcalf would still be intriguing but after signing those WR’s I’m not sure it’s needed. And I think I remember Beanne saying something like he doesn’t feel like a team needs a true “#1 WR”.
After FA I’m starting to think Beanne is going to go best DL available.
I don’t think I’d be too upset if they went Hockenson. We do need a TE upgrade and a big red zone threat. We need a guard or tackle but now have the ability to develope one from a later pick. Metcalf would still be intriguing but after signing those WR’s I’m not sure it’s needed. And I think I remember Beanne saying something like he doesn’t feel like a team needs a true “#1 WR”.
It certainly shouldn't. IMO almost every position on the team could still use an upgrade, go BPA.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Bills got a new kick returner.
“Pro Bowl returner Andre Roberts is signing with the Buffalo Bills per sources. He was selected for both the All-Pro and Pro Bowl teams in recognition of his work as a kick returner last season with the Jets.”
“Pro Bowl returner Andre Roberts is signing with the Buffalo Bills per sources. He was selected for both the All-Pro and Pro Bowl teams in recognition of his work as a kick returner last season with the Jets.”
