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Le'Veon Bell

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1 minute ago, Hairy Snowman said:

They would need to elect to do so.  Do you think doing that would get a better result out of Bell? 

If he shows, I would be surprised if the Steelers further stirred that pot.  I think they pay him and play him.    

I have no clue what Bell is doing or why he chose the BYE week to come back or when he'll show up during the bye but if Pittsburgh doesn't have to pay him for the Bye week then do they have to announce they are not paying him?  Two many questions and no one seems to have answers so I have no clue what Bell is doing or how it will shake out.

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The CBA requires the team and player to reach an agreement on how the roster exemption will be handled before the tag can be signed.

From the CBA ...

Article 20, Section 4 of the NFL collective bargaining agreement states ..

Section 4. Roster Exemption:
(a) Certain Players Not Under Contract. After the final roster reduction a
Club must agree in writing with an unsigned player who is either an Unrestricted Free
Agent, Transition Player, or Franchise Player, prior to signing a Player Contract with
such player, on what compensation, if any, the player will be paid if he is placed in a
roster exempt status.
 

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4 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

I have no clue what Bell is doing or why he chose the BYE week to come back or when he'll show up during the bye but if Pittsburgh doesn't have to pay him for the Bye week then do they have to announce they are not paying him?  Two many questions and no one seems to have answers so I have no clue what Bell is doing or how it will shake out.

My guess is that he is shooting for an abbreviated "mini-camp" to polish up before live action.  He doesn't want to get hurt and I am guessing that he is controlling what he can. Seems the responsible thing to do to me.    

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1 minute ago, Hairy Snowman said:

My guess is that he is shooting for an abbreviated "mini-camp" to polish up before live action.  He doesn't want to get hurt and I am guessing that he is controlling what he can. Seems the responsible thing to do to me.    

I don't know how the team is going to handle his situation this year.  

Last year Haley ran him into the ground trying to get him up to game condition and his game suffered for a few weeks.

I doubt one BYE week's worth of practice will get him in game playing shape and the OC has changed so do they take the ball out of Conner's hands and give him a full load?

I doubt it.  

I think they ease him in because James Conner has the hot hand and they can afford Bell a few weeks to get his legs back.

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On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 6:50 PM, matuski said:

Bell is the better player.  Teams are indeed defending PIT differently with Bell out.  It really is that simple.  I am not sure why people get personally invested in this.. it isn't controversial.

Teams are indeed defending PIT differently with Bell out by stacking the box with eight men twice as frequently against Conner.  

https://twitter.com/TheRBScout/status/1051852953928327173

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On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 11:05 AM, Hairy Snowman said:

They would need to elect to do so.  Do you think doing that would get a better result out of Bell? 

If he shows, I would be surprised if the Steelers further stirred that pot.  I think they pay him and play him.    

The Steelers do not seem to be that invested in Bell anymore. And if the plan was not to resign him anyway Bell has saved the team 6-7 million dollars.

Edited by Da Guru
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11 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

Teams are indeed defending PIT differently with Bell out by stacking the box with eight men twice as frequently against Conner.  

https://twitter.com/TheRBScout/status/1051852953928327173

Not surprising. Conner can be/is an above average NFL running back but he doesn't have quite the receiving skills that Bell has. Less worry about him running routes.

The offense is still looking really good regardless, just a different style. The defense has shown flashes here and there, but they'll need to be far more consistent for this team to have any chance of doing anything whether Bell reports or not.

Bell is making a business decision, and I hope the Steelers make the best decision for their own franchise depending on when he reports, not to appease Bell with an extra paycheck he doesn't deserve. As long as Conner keeps performing, Bell simply doesn't have the size of an impact on the team that he thinks or wishes he has. 

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11 minutes ago, Steelers4Life said:

Not surprising. Conner can be/is an above average NFL running back but he doesn't have quite the receiving skills that Bell has. Less worry about him running routes.

The offense is still looking really good regardless, just a different style. The defense has shown flashes here and there, but they'll need to be far more consistent for this team to have any chance of doing anything whether Bell reports or not.

Bell is making a business decision, and I hope the Steelers make the best decision for their own franchise depending on when he reports, not to appease Bell with an extra paycheck he doesn't deserve. As long as Conner keeps performing, Bell simply doesn't have the size of an impact on the team that he thinks or wishes he has. 

Conner is third in RB routes this year behind some guys named Alvin Kamara and Saquon Barkley.  He's averaging almost 1.5 yards more reception than Bell did and almost identical receiving yards per game.  How exactly is he not a receiving threat like how they used Bell?

 

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3 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

Conner is third in RB routes this year behind some guys named Alvin Kamara and Saquon Barkley.  He's averaging almost 1.5 yards more reception than Bell did and almost identical receiving yards per game.  How exactly is he not a receiving threat like how they used Bell?

 

Sometimes it takes watching them play as opposed to looking at numbers.  

Conner can catch passes, no doubt. He's a great safety valve and has made plays a lot in that capacity with defenses focused so heavily on the WRs and TEs. He's good in the open field. But he's not the type of talent that can split out wide like Bell did, which is why I'd fully expect Bell to get a lot more attention as a receiver than Conner ever will.

I love Conner. I'm a Steelers fan and a Pitt alum. People who want to look at numbers and say Conner is as good or better than Bell are nuts. He's not. But just because he's not as good as Bell doesn't mean he can't be very productive and it doesn't mean the Steelers offense misses much without Bell.

When you have a solid line, 2 star WRs, and a future HOF quarterback, the running back is going to benefit... Bell did, and so does Conner. 

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4 minutes ago, Steelers4Life said:

Sometimes it takes watching them play as opposed to looking at numbers.  

Conner can catch passes, no doubt. He's a great safety valve and has made plays a lot in that capacity with defenses focused so heavily on the WRs and TEs. He's good in the open field. But he's not the type of talent that can split out wide like Bell did, which is why I'd fully expect Bell to get a lot more attention as a receiver than Conner ever will.

I love Conner. I'm a Steelers fan and a Pitt alum. People who want to look at numbers and say Conner is as good or better than Bell are nuts. He's not. But just because he's not as good as Bell doesn't mean he can't be very productive and it doesn't mean the Steelers offense misses much without Bell.

When you have a solid line, 2 star WRs, and a future HOF quarterback, the running back is going to benefit... Bell did, and so does Conner. 

:goodposting:

Bell forces the opposing D to be stressed in ways that Conner doesn't, at least not as of yet.  Conner is a very good RB, albeit a different type, than Bell.  Perhaps Conner will one day be as good as Bell is now, or maybe he'll be better.  He has seem to have improved from year 1 to year 2, so perhaps he can improve more.  But Bell is better now.  In 2 years, when Bell is on the downward phase of his career and Conner is peaking?  Then the answer might be different.  That being said, I doubt that Conner ever turns into the kind of receiving threat that Bell is (where D's have to plan for/defend Bell as a WR, not as a safety-valve option).

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54 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

The Steelers do not seem to be that invested in Bell anymore. And if the plan was not to resign him anyway Bell has saved the team 6-7 million dollars.

Looking more and more that way.  How things change in 2 months. 

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58 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

The Steelers do not seem to be that invested in Bell anymore. And if the plan was not to resign him anyway Bell has saved the team 6-7 million dollars.

Give half of that to Conner and reinvest the other eight figures in their defense.

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18 minutes ago, Steelers4Life said:

Sometimes it takes watching them play as opposed to looking at numbers.  

Come on man.  I appreciate your candid responses, but that's such a weak response because they don't support your assertion.

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1 minute ago, tjnc09 said:

Come on man.  I appreciate your candid responses, but that's such a weak response because they don't support your assertion.

Disagree with me if you want, that's fine. It's not a weak response, it's an honest one. If someone wants to look at stats and argue that Conner can be as good as Bell as a fantasy RB, I won't argue quite as much. In this situation and with his talent, he might very well be because he'll score TDs, catch passes, and he can run well too. We'll find out what Bell is capable of next year in a not-so-ideal situation... probably.

But if you want to argue how purely talented Conner is compared to Bell and what each bring to an offense, I'd say that it takes looking at more than numbers to judge that. I'd also be confident that anyone else who watches and follows the Steelers will feel the same way.  

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22 minutes ago, Steelers4Life said:

Disagree with me if you want, that's fine. It's not a weak response, it's an honest one. If someone wants to look at stats and argue that Conner can be as good as Bell as a fantasy RB, I won't argue quite as much. In this situation and with his talent, he might very well be because he'll score TDs, catch passes, and he can run well too. We'll find out what Bell is capable of next year in a not-so-ideal situation... probably.

But if you want to argue how purely talented Conner is compared to Bell and what each bring to an offense, I'd say that it takes looking at more than numbers to judge that. I'd also be confident that anyone else who watches and follows the Steelers will feel the same way.  

Bell at his best is better than Conner will ever be.  But do you really think 2017 Bell >>> 2018 Conner?  Bell got what, 2 carries over 20+ yards last year, with a boatload of carries.  I watched every snap, that stat is not misleading.  Bell still made some ridiculous plays last year that Conner could not (i.e. Jax playoff game), but Conner has already proven to be more explosive than Bell last year, at a minimum.

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2 minutes ago, Steelers4Life said:

Disagree with me if you want, that's fine. It's not a weak response, it's an honest one. If someone wants to look at stats and argue that Conner can be as good as Bell as a fantasy RB, I won't argue quite as much. In this situation and with his talent, he might very well be because he'll score TDs, catch passes, and he can run well too. We'll find out what Bell is capable of next year in a not-so-ideal situation... probably.

But if you want to argue how purely talented Conner is compared to Bell and what each bring to an offense, I'd say that it takes looking at more than numbers to judge that. I'd also be confident that anyone else who watches and follows the Steelers will feel the same way.  

Sorry, if Bell is clearly better than Conner, there would be numbers to prove it.  Both team and RB production haven't suffered at all with Conner as the starter (or DeAngelo Williams for the matter).  I want some per game factual evidence that Bell is better than Conner and I'll drop it.  Otherwise, I know the "you have to watch" response is because Bell supporters are too stubborn to admit they are wrong. 

Bell is a system RB that has been fortunate to play in a great situation for his entire career and it's why his main backups produce as well as he ever did.  Put him on another terrible team and he's just a guy.

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8 minutes ago, Buttonhook said:

But do you really think 2017 Bell >>> 2018 Conner?  

I think that's a great point.  What kind of shape is he in?  Lowest ypc last year since his rookie season.  Almost a full yard less than his peak in 2015 and 2016.  Part of being elite is peak conditioning and training with teammates.

 

Conner is doing things that Bell can't do too :shrug:

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1050744652259885058

Edited by tjnc09

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17 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

Sorry, if Bell is clearly better than Conner, there would be numbers to prove it. 

It is amazing how fantasy football can skew a person's perspective.

 

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I hope James Conner can be a stud in that system for years to come.  He is having a great season.

AND

Bell is still the better player.

These two opinions are not exclusive of each other.

Edited by matuski

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1 minute ago, matuski said:

It is amazing how fantasy football can skew a person's perspective.

 

Another response that screams "I'm wrong, but I'm too insecure to admit it"

 

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Just now, tjnc09 said:

Another response that screams "I'm wrong, but I'm too insecure to admit it"

 

Please don't get petty over this.

It was a serious post, not one to take personally.

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Just now, matuski said:

Please don't get petty over this.

It was a serious post, not one to take personally.

Nobody is taking it personally.  Bell supporters know they are wrong.  

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1 minute ago, tjnc09 said:

Nobody is taking it personally.  Bell supporters know they are wrong.  

Honest question; hope you can provide an honest answer.  Assuming the contracts were not a factor, how many NFL GMs they had a 1-2 year window would choose Conner over Bell?  So, both RBs have the same contract; the team wants to win now: 2018 or 2019.  They aren’t concerned about further down the road.  How many GMs do you think will take Conner over Bell?

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Just now, tjnc09 said:

Nobody is taking it personally.  Bell supporters know they are wrong.  

Wrong about what?  I am not understanding this position you are taking - aside from it definitely seeming personal.

I am a Bell supporter.

I am a Conner supporter.

Bell is obviously the better/more valuable/proven player.  This does not take anything away from Conner.

 

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I'm still waiting for a Bell supporter to provide some per game statistical evidence to support their argument.  

 

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1 minute ago, matuski said:

 

Bell is obviously the better/more valuable/proven player.  This does not take anything away from Conner.

 

I'm asking to provide me some facts on why Bell is better.  It really shouldn't be this hard.

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1 minute ago, Bayhawks said:

Honest question; hope you can provide an honest answer.  Assuming the contracts were not a factor, how many NFL GMs they had a 1-2 year window would choose Conner over Bell?  So, both RBs have the same contract; the team wants to win now: 2018 or 2019.  They aren’t concerned about further down the road.  How many GMs do you think will take Conner over Bell?

The Steelers.  Even then I'd think that has as much (more) to do with how this has been handled than any statement on ability.  For 2018 I am interested to see how Bell approaches this.  Whether he is committed to it 100%, or whether he coasts to get to FA.

I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, but we can only wait and see.

 

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8 minutes ago, matuski said:

It is amazing how fantasy football can skew a person's perspective.

 

At some point, it's not worth debating with people who really believe numbers tell the whole story. For fantasy, I guess they do.

I'm a Steelers and Pitt homer and I've watched damn near every snap of both Bell's NFL career and Conner's entire career, including college. Love the guy. Love how tough he is, love how he falls forward, and love his all around skillset. He fills in quite nicely on the Steelers, and while the offense is different, it's still very effective without Bell.

But Conner is not and won't be the focal point of any defensive game plan. Bell did what he did as THE focal point of EVERY defensive game plan on an offense that included the best WR in the NFL and a HOF QB to get him the ball. If defenses keyed in on Conner the way they did on Bell, I don't believe for a second that he'd be quite what he's been so far... but I don't expect defenses to shift their focus to him either.

Again, the Steelers don't need Bell to have dynamic offense. I'm not a Bell supporter or a Conner supporter - I'm a Steelers fan and I don't think having Bell here would've changed much with how the team has performed so far. But you won't find many - if any - people who've watched the Steelers from something other than a fantasy perspective and thought Conner is as good as Bell. He's just not.

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41 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

Sorry, if Bell is clearly better than Conner, there would be numbers to prove it.  Both team and RB production haven't suffered at all with Conner as the starter (or DeAngelo Williams for the matter).  I want some per game factual evidence that Bell is better than Conner and I'll drop it.  Otherwise, I know the "you have to watch" response is because Bell supporters are too stubborn to admit they are wrong. 

Bell is a system RB that has been fortunate to play in a great situation for his entire career and it's why his main backups produce as well as he ever did.  Put him on another terrible team and he's just a guy.

The numbers that prove it are in the contracts the Steelers offered to Bell over the last 2 seasons. No team, ever, has offered mega contracts to a "system RB"...

Watch tape of both RBs and, assuming you can be honest with yourself about what you see, you'll likely understand the not-even-remotely-new-concept known as the "eyeball test"...

The rest of the posts just seem to be trolling, but are somehow less preposterous. But the joke is probably on me... here, have some more food... :D

 

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8 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

I'm asking to provide me some facts on why Bell is better.  It really shouldn't be this hard.

20 - 854

62 - 7996

2 franchise tags versus zero.

really isn't hard and could probably do this all day.. but this wasn't what you were really after.

Edited by matuski

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6 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

Honest question; hope you can provide an honest answer.  Assuming the contracts were not a factor, how many NFL GMs they had a 1-2 year window would choose Conner over Bell?  So, both RBs have the same contract; the team wants to win now: 2018 or 2019.  They aren’t concerned about further down the road.  How many GMs do you think will take Conner over Bell?

There are a lot of stupid GMs in the NFL that overvalue RBs.  That doesn't prove Bell is better which is why you want me to answer.  

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1 minute ago, tjnc09 said:

There are a lot of stupid GMs in the NFL that overvalue RBs.  That doesn't prove Bell is better which is why you want me to answer.  

So you’re saying none?  Or did I miss your answer?

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1 minute ago, tjnc09 said:

:lmao: 

 

13 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

I'm asking to provide me some facts on why Bell is better.  It really shouldn't be this hard.

Interesting juxtaposition here.

Edited by matuski

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6 minutes ago, Flying Elvis said:

The numbers that prove it are in the contracts the Steelers offered to Bell over the last 2 seasons. No team, ever, has offered mega contracts to a "system RB"...

.

 

When is the last time the Patriots overpaid for a RB?  The smartest NFL front office would NEVER pay that type of money for a RB.  

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Today I learned that the guy with 1000 carries for 1000 yards is better than a guy with 200 carries for 900 yards.  :shuked: 

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20 minutes ago, Steelers4Life said:

But Conner is not and won't be the focal point of any defensive game plan. Bell did what he did as THE focal point of EVERY defensive game plan on an offense that included the best WR in the NFL and a HOF QB to get him the ball. If defenses keyed in on Conner the way they did on Bell, I don't believe for a second that he'd be quite what he's been so far... but I don't expect defenses to shift their focus to him either.

Really?  Totally disagree here.  AB and Ben are the focal point of defenses.  The Pats and Jags last year doubled AB on every play, and practically begged us to give the ball to Bell.  They're not scared of five yards and a cloud of dust... 

21 minutes ago, Flying Elvis said:

The numbers that prove it are in the contracts the Steelers offered to Bell over the last 2 seasons. No team, ever, has offered mega contracts to a "system RB"...

Watch tape of both RBs and, assuming you can be honest with yourself about what you see, you'll likely understand the not-even-remotely-new-concept known as the "eyeball test"...

The rest of the posts just seem to be trolling, but are somehow less preposterous. But the joke is probably on me... here, have some more food... :D

 

Sorry, Bell was a Top 3 RB in 2015-2016, but not in 2017.  He still had wiggle, but lost his explosiveness.  Maybe you guys think it was an anomaly?  I happen to believe he's already reached his peak.  

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It's not even entirely relevant if you think Bell is a better player than Conner.  What is relevant is that Conner at $790,000 is a much better ROI than Bell at $14,500,000, or even the prorated remainder of that #.

 

Trade Bell, then flip the pick you get for him to Arizona along with a 2020 pick and Artie Burns for Patrick Peterson.

 

Steelers with Conner and Peterson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steelers with Bell and Burns.  We've already seen that the Steelers can move the ball just fine with Conner.  Whatever small hit the offense would take by not getting Bell back would be offset threefold by the massive improvement the defense would make having Haden and Peterson as the corners.  Suddenly, the team's biggest weakness becomes a strength.

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18 minutes ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

It's not even entirely relevant if you think Bell is a better player than Conner.  What is relevant is that Conner at $790,000 is a much better ROI than Bell at $14,500,000, or even the prorated remainder of that #.

 

Trade Bell, then flip the pick you get for him to Arizona along with a 2020 pick and Artie Burns for Patrick Peterson.

 

Steelers with Conner and Peterson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steelers with Bell and Burns.  We've already seen that the Steelers can move the ball just fine with Conner.  Whatever small hit the offense would take by not getting Bell back would be offset threefold by the massive improvement the defense would make having Haden and Peterson as the corners.  Suddenly, the team's biggest weakness becomes a strength.

Why would Arizona trade for bell when they have DJ?  Is this a legit rumor?

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18 minutes ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

It's not even entirely relevant if you think Bell is a better player than Conner.  What is relevant is that Conner at $790,000 is a much better ROI than Bell at $14,500,000, or even the prorated remainder of that #.

 

Trade Bell, then flip the pick you get for him to Arizona along with a 2020 pick and Artie Burns for Patrick Peterson.

 

Steelers with Conner and Peterson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steelers with Bell and Burns.  We've already seen that the Steelers can move the ball just fine with Conner.  Whatever small hit the offense would take by not getting Bell back would be offset threefold by the massive improvement the defense would make having Haden and Peterson as the corners.  Suddenly, the team's biggest weakness becomes a strength.

How can you trade a guy who has 10 games remaining on his contract? No team is giving up a high draft pick for a guy who can walk at the end of the season and go to the highest bidder. This isn't the NBA, there is no sign and trade deals. 

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29 minutes ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

It's not even entirely relevant if you think Bell is a better player than Conner.  What is relevant is that Conner at $790,000 is a much better ROI than Bell at $14,500,000, or even the prorated remainder of that #.

 

Trade Bell, then flip the pick you get for him to Arizona along with a 2020 pick and Artie Burns for Patrick Peterson.

 

Steelers with Conner and Peterson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steelers with Bell and Burns.  We've already seen that the Steelers can move the ball just fine with Conner.  Whatever small hit the offense would take by not getting Bell back would be offset threefold by the massive improvement the defense would make having Haden and Peterson as the corners.  Suddenly, the team's biggest weakness becomes a strength.

Form a sick RBBC with DJ? This is like something I'd do in madden

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11 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

Why would Arizona trade for bell when they have DJ?  Is this a legit rumor?

Never mind, I mis-read it the first time.

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1 hour ago, Steelers4Life said:

 

But Conner is not and won't be the focal point of any defensive game plan. Bell did what he did as THE focal point of EVERY defensive game plan on an offense that included the best WR in the NFL and a HOF QB to get him the ball. If defenses keyed in on Conner the way they did on Bell, I don't believe for a second that he'd be quite what he's been so far... but I don't expect defenses to shift their focus to him either.

 

lol have you actually looked at their passing statistics this year?  Roethlisberger... wow he stinks now that defenses don't have to worry about Bell.  Holy crap, he's terrible.

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Just now, tjnc09 said:

lol have you actually looked at their passing statistics this year?  Roethlisberger... wow he stinks now that defenses don't have to worry about Bell.  Holy crap, he's terrible.

What does that have to do with anything?  Ben is awesome, and he's going to continue to be awesome as long as he has Brown and JuJu to throw to, as well as a good RB coming out of the backfield and some decent TE's. That passing attack is part of the reason Conner has all that room to run and the ability to catch passes underneath. Bell benefited from it too.

I've said repeatedly for many, many pages that the Steelers' offense is going to function exceptionally well whether Bell or Conner is in there, and Bell reporting will have minimal impact on the Steelers' chances of doing anything this year. They'll have an elite offense whether Bell reports or not. That doesn't make Conner as talented as Bell, and neither do fantasy stats unless fantasy stats are all you care about. To each their own.

I know people who picked up Conner in fantasy football want to believe he's a super-star. And he might be for fantasy football as long as he's in this situation and Bell doesn't report. From a talent perspective, Bell is a game changer and a much more potent dual threat RB, and that's not a knock on Conner at all. 

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43 minutes ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

It's not even entirely relevant if you think Bell is a better player than Conner.  What is relevant is that Conner at $790,000 is a much better ROI than Bell at $14,500,000, or even the prorated remainder of that #.

 

Trade Bell, then flip the pick you get for him to Arizona along with a 2020 pick and Artie Burns for Patrick Peterson.

 

Steelers with Conner and Peterson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steelers with Bell and Burns.  We've already seen that the Steelers can move the ball just fine with Conner.  Whatever small hit the offense would take by not getting Bell back would be offset threefold by the massive improvement the defense would make having Haden and Peterson as the corners.  Suddenly, the team's biggest weakness becomes a strength.

Agreed.

As good as the offense is with Conner, it'd be at least a little better with a healthy and motivated Bell (neither of which we'd be sure to have anyways). But at their respective costs, there's no comparison. The idea of trading Bell and flipping that pick plus more for Peterson is probably easier said than done. 

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24 minutes ago, ROCKET said:

How can you trade a guy who has 10 games remaining on his contract? No team is giving up a high draft pick for a guy who can walk at the end of the season and go to the highest bidder. This isn't the NBA, there is no sign and trade deals. 

Well, the Saints did give up a 3rd round pick for a full season of a backup QB when the backup QB is set to be a UFA after this season.

So, it can happen. Not saying I expect it to, though. I don't see anyone dealing for Bell this year.

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