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timschochet

The North Korea Thread: Trump has completely blown this

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Actually, the sabre rattling is getting a bit louder inside the walls here. Not joking.

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Actually, the sabre rattling is getting a bit louder inside the walls here. Not joking.

Well, the US definitely seems to be taking it a little more serious this time.

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Can we unite the two Korea threads?

Maybe that is a start to peace on the peninsula ...

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Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

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You know if they nuke us now we will feel REALLY stupid.

"Remember when they released a photo that showed where they were going to strike, yeah, that could have been a clue"

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Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

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Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

He threw up quite a few bombs himself this weekend. He was 2 for 22.

Edited by Phil Elliott

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Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

Oh please, Clinton cornered them with Albright and diplomacy and Bush Jr. bribed them.

He could do plenty. Last I checked he sent some bombers across their bow and that would have been something Clinton and Bush Jr. would have been rightly lambasted for.

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While the leadership there is definitely crazy, they have to realize that if they use nuclear weapons on anybody, the few friends they have will leave them to their fate, which would be to watch North Korea get turned into a barren wasteland. Basically the same, but on fire.

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You know if they nuke us now we will feel REALLY stupid.

"Remember when they released a photo that showed where they were going to strike, yeah, that could have been a clue"

THEY CALLED THEIR SHOT!!!!!1!/koreanbambino

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North Korean leaders have to know that if they fire any kind of nuke onto a populated area then there will be no more North Korean leadership, right? They have to know this factoid.

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North Korean leaders have to know that if they fire any kind of nuke onto a populated area then there will be no more North Korean leadership, right? They have to know this factoid.

Ever see Dr. Straneglove?

This no fiction of course, but there are a lot of nutsos in that country's military who don't give a rats a** if they are alive tomorrow.

They are also extremely warped in their view of reality.

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North Korean leaders have to know that if they fire any kind of nuke onto a populated area then there will be no more North Korean leadership, right? They have to know this factoid.

there are a lot of nutsos in that country's military who don't give a rats a** if they are alive tomorrow.

How do you know this?

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North Korean leaders have to know that if they fire any kind of nuke onto a populated area then there will be no more North Korean leadership, right? They have to know this factoid.

Ever see Dr. Straneglove?

This no fiction of course, but there are a lot of nutsos in that country's military who don't give a rats a** if they are alive tomorrow.

They are also extremely warped in their view of reality.

I get that but it definitely illogical to think otherwise from any point of view.

Other than being nuts, why would North Korea try anything against us? It is not religious in nature. Its not because of resources of any kind that I know of. Is it simply because we are friends with the South? Geez, what a dumb reason but when you keep yourselves on voluntary solitary confinement, you're bound to become a little loony at some point.

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North Korean leaders have to know that if they fire any kind of nuke onto a populated area then there will be no more North Korean leadership, right? They have to know this factoid.

there are a lot of nutsos in that country's military who don't give a rats a** if they are alive tomorrow.

How do you know this?

:blackdot:

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North Korean leaders have to know that if they fire any kind of nuke onto a populated area then there will be no more North Korean leadership, right? They have to know this factoid.

there are a lot of nutsos in that country's military who don't give a rats a** if they are alive tomorrow.

How do you know this?

How does one know anything grasshopper?

By the senses, what we have read, heard, learned.

You're talking about a nation that as a working principles enslaves and starves a good number of its people as a matter of policy and puts Kim Jung Un in charge of the whole literal shooting match.

For an example of how whacked governments like this can be check out historical records of Pol Pot's Cambodia, crazier and sicker beyond human nightmares.

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You know if they nuke us now we will feel REALLY stupid.

"Remember when they released a photo that showed where they were going to strike, yeah, that could have been a clue"

THEY CALLED THEIR SHOT!!!!!1!/koreanbambino

I would not want to take that chance

i mean, the only thing worse than getting nuked is getting nuked AND looking stupid in the process.

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North Korean leaders have to know that if they fire any kind of nuke onto a populated area then there will be no more North Korean leadership, right? They have to know this factoid.

there are a lot of nutsos in that country's military who don't give a rats a** if they are alive tomorrow.

How do you know this?

:blackdot:

For another example of the correlation between the disregard of the human life in the form of a dictator's/party's national subjects and the leaders' non-desire to maintain national preservation and their own lives, take a look at Nazi Germany. They went full throttle into national and personal self-destruction.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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KJU is racking up serious warning points.

The lhucks of crazy despots?
Interesting, but I'm sure you can find someone, somewhere, who likes KJU.

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I wonder if all those pukes like Psy still want us to leave. Hippocrates.

A small part of me dies a little inside everytime somebody does this.
Going to have to unpack that a bit

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I wonder if all those pukes like Psy still want us to leave. Hippocrates.

A small part of me dies a little inside everytime somebody does this.
Going to have to unpack that a bit
:lmao: :lmao:

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

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I wonder if all those pukes like Psy still want us to leave. Hippocrates.

A small part of me dies a little inside everytime somebody does this.
Going to have to unpack that a bit

Sure thing, Hippocrates.

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

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I wonder if all those pukes like Psy still want us to leave. Hippocrates.

A small part of me dies a little inside everytime somebody does this.
Going to have to unpack that a bit

Sure thing, Hippocrates.

A bit hippersensitive are we?

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

It seems like you know an awful lot about them, except for this.

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

The institution of slavery was a pretty horrible thing, too. Was every President from Washington to Lincoln a raving lunatic capable of launching nukes at Paris on a whim?

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

The institution of slavery was a pretty horrible thing, too. Was every President from Washington to Lincoln a raving lunatic capable of launching nukes at Paris on a whim?

:kicksrock:

If only we had nukes back then...we did #### over the American Indians pretty good in that time frame, that has to count for something.

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

The institution of slavery was a pretty horrible thing, too. Was every President from Washington to Lincoln a raving lunatic capable of launching nukes at Paris on a whim?

No, but we did end up in the bloodiest most deadliest war in our nation's history over it though. I'd say that was pretty darned crazy and self-destructive from the South's point of view considering they fired the first shot.

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

The institution of slavery was a pretty horrible thing, too. Was every President from Washington to Lincoln a raving lunatic capable of launching nukes at Paris on a whim?

No, but we did end up in the bloodiest most deadliest war in our nation's history over it though. I'd say that was pretty darned crazy and self-destructive from the South's point of view considering they fired the first shot.

And if Jefferson Davis had possessed nuclear weapons he would not have hesitated to use them.

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

It's built about preservation of the power of the political elite, which is why odds are they won't (intentionally) provoke a full blown war. They play a "crazy like a fox" game, just like Saddam did and just like the Iranians do, but that doesn't mean they're irrational. They are weighing cost and benefit and, while you disagree with the decisions they make and they certainly have unintended consequences that bit them in the ### from time to time (as is the case with every government, BTW), your moral objections to the way they conduct themselves don't make them irrational.

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

The institution of slavery was a pretty horrible thing, too. Was every President from Washington to Lincoln a raving lunatic capable of launching nukes at Paris on a whim?

No, but we did end up in the bloodiest most deadliest war in our nation's history over it though. I'd say that was pretty darned crazy and self-destructive from the South's point of view considering they fired the first shot.

And if Jefferson Davis had possessed nuclear weapons he would not have hesitated to use them.

Yow, good point.

As a side note, the plot by Booth was desigend to kill not only Lincoln but also simultaneously the next two in line for succession, VP Johnson and SOS Seward, and if successful it might have resulted in a coup d'etat of the USA. They were willing to blow the whole thing up.

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

It's built about preservation of the power of the political elite, which is why odds are they won't (intentionally) provoke a full blown war. They play a "crazy like a fox" game, just like Saddam did and just like the Iranians do, but that doesn't mean they're irrational. They are weighing cost and benefit and, while you disagree with the decisions they make and they certainly have unintended consequences that bit them in the ### from time to time (as is the case with every government, BTW), your moral objections to the way they conduct themselves don't make them irrational.

Well, you can take our moral objections out of it, the way they act is irrational generally, that's my point.

& not to get into that, but one sane thing Hussein could have done was let the inspectors in and another would have been to leave Iraq like the Shah, or maybe not have pretended to have a WMD program in the first place, etc.

MAD is no guarantee, and as I've said sane nations of the world like USA-USSR 1962 have gone to the brink and some of the more insane dictatorships of the past have gone right over it.

Amazes me some people say they know KJU or his pupeteers won't cross that line.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

Yeah, you're right. I shouldn't have put it that way. "Difficult" would have been a better choice of words.

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

It's built about preservation of the power of the political elite, which is why odds are they won't (intentionally) provoke a full blown war. They play a "crazy like a fox" game, just like Saddam did and just like the Iranians do, but that doesn't mean they're irrational. They are weighing cost and benefit and, while you disagree with the decisions they make and they certainly have unintended consequences that bit them in the ### from time to time (as is the case with every government, BTW), your moral objections to the way they conduct themselves don't make them irrational.

Well, you can take our moral objections out of it, the way they act is irrational generally, that's my point.

& not to get into that, but one sane thing Hussein could have done was let the inspectors in and another would have been to leave Iraq like the Shah, or maybe not have pretended to have a WMD program in the first place, etc.

MAD is no guarantee, and as I've said sane nations of the world like USA-USSR 1962 have gone to the brink and some of the more insane dictatorships of the past have gone right over it.

Amazes me some people say they know KJU or his pupeteers won't cross that line.

How do you distinguish irrational from "crazy like a fox"?

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

The institution of slavery was a pretty horrible thing, too. Was every President from Washington to Lincoln a raving lunatic capable of launching nukes at Paris on a whim?

No, but we did end up in the bloodiest most deadliest war in our nation's history over it though. I'd say that was pretty darned crazy and self-destructive from the South's point of view considering they fired the first shot.

And if Jefferson Davis had possessed nuclear weapons he would not have hesitated to use them.

Yes, yes, Davis' affinity and desire for WMD's is well known. :mellow:

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

It's built about preservation of the power of the political elite, which is why odds are they won't (intentionally) provoke a full blown war. They play a "crazy like a fox" game, just like Saddam did and just like the Iranians do, but that doesn't mean they're irrational. They are weighing cost and benefit and, while you disagree with the decisions they make and they certainly have unintended consequences that bit them in the ### from time to time (as is the case with every government, BTW), your moral objections to the way they conduct themselves don't make them irrational.

Chief of Staff General Martin Dempsey explains why Iran is a rational actor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkejCaytino. He got a heap load of crap over his comments.

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

It's built about preservation of the power of the political elite, which is why odds are they won't (intentionally) provoke a full blown war. They play a "crazy like a fox" game, just like Saddam did and just like the Iranians do, but that doesn't mean they're irrational. They are weighing cost and benefit and, while you disagree with the decisions they make and they certainly have unintended consequences that bit them in the ### from time to time (as is the case with every government, BTW), your moral objections to the way they conduct themselves don't make them irrational.

Chief of Staff General Martin Dempsey explains why Iran is a rational actor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkejCaytino. He got a heap load of crap over his comments.

This was a debate during the Cold War regarding the Soviets too. It's emotionally easy/satisfying to vilify an enemy as being irrational, less than human, etc. I think it tends to be counter-productive when you're trying to objectively analyze them as you need to.

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