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[Dynasty] Todd Gurley

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30 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

I bet people have speculated he was injured and insinuated the entire Rams organization is full of liars close to 40 times now.

 

 

Hellllllo kettle. 

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3 hours ago, tjnc09 said:

 

Gurley struggled against the #2 rated run DVOA Bears as a healthy RB.  The Saints were rated #3 and had already seen him once this season.  Give Belichick two weeks against a predictable offense and he will shut almost anyone down.  I don't believe Gurley was injured, I think he ran into the Saints and Patriots who did a tremendous job defending against that offense (just like the Bears previously did).

see now this is a decent post....and truth be told, BB gave credit to the LIONS that's right lions who showed him a template to slow the rams down, now Detroit has a great run stuffer in snacks Harrison and a shut down corner in Slay much like Gilmore, so they made it work...

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7 hours ago, tjnc09 said:

I bet people have speculated he was injured and insinuated the entire Rams organization is full of liars close to 40 times now.

 

 

Just curious...are you of the opinion that NFL organizations and players always tell the truth about player health?  Your answer will go a long way toward validating (or invalidating) your responses prior.

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Grain of salt time but a well respected member of a Rams forum is saying that Gurley has an ACL issue. He was unsure of the degree. Says he knows a doc who knows a doc on the Rams staff kind of thing. Could be complete nonsense but thought I’d mention it since it’s been a co firmed knee issue and prolly not a minor one.

Edited by fruity pebbles

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38 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I think this was obvious to most rational thinkers.

Yeah, I think most people understood that either Gurley or the Rams were downplaying something a lot more serious than was officially noted.  

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Not sure if I feel this is good or bad. One hand, he doesn’t have stage fright, McVay didn’t lose confidence in him, he wasn’t benched, CJs not better etc. On the other, same knee he tore the ACL, kept dealing with swelling, 8 weeks later he was still limited and CJ said its worse than they originally thought. 

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On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 10:08 PM, tjnc09 said:

I bet people have speculated he was injured and insinuated the entire Rams organization is full of liars close to 40 times now.

 

 

Actually we all knew he was injured and that they were lying.

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32 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

Not sure if I feel this is good or bad. One hand, he doesn’t have stage fright, McVay didn’t lose confidence in him, he wasn’t benched, CJs not better etc. On the other, same knee he tore the ACL, kept dealing with swelling, 8 weeks later he was still limited and CJ said its worse than they originally thought. 

I really think you are making to much of his injury and long term impact. He had an exit physical, no surgery needed. He does not have a torn ACL or anything. I for one have zero worries about him being full go in about 7 more months.

The concern going forward is that Rams become more focused next year on scaling back Gurley's workload.  Speaking to CJ's comments he said having two capable RB's gave McVay more tools to work with and enabled them to try and keep Gurley fresh. Whether it's CJ or someone else my concern is this will be a goal next season. Not a RBBC of course, but a slight reduction.  Enough of a slight reduction to take him from lock top 2 pick to more of a lock top 5 pick.

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14 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I really think you are making to much of his injury and long term impact. He had an exit physical, no surgery needed. He does not have a torn ACL or anything. I for one have zero worries about him being full go in about 7 more months.

The concern going forward is that Rams become more focused next year on scaling back Gurley's workload.  Speaking to CJ's comments he said having two capable RB's gave McVay more tools to work with and enabled them to try and keep Gurley fresh. Whether it's CJ or someone else my concern is this will be a goal next season. Not a RBBC of course, but a slight reduction.  Enough of a slight reduction to take him from lock top 2 pick to more of a lock top 5 pick.

Gurley only averaged 18.3 carries per game and 22.5 total touches per game.  That balance was already happening.  No concern for me at all, and I am actively after him in all leagues at panic prices.

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2 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Gurley only averaged 18.3 carries per game and 22.5 total touches per game.  That balance was already happening.  No concern for me at all, and I am actively after him in all leagues at panic prices.

Yes you are right I've noticed his total touches don't seem to daunting but do you know how his percentage of snaps/touches would rate? I thought I'd read last two years he led the league. I sure would not expect this to drop more then a handful of touches a game, but a handful especially if that cut into his goal line dominance would impact him a little IMO. Just a little.

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I'm not worried about % of snaps.  That just means they are using their WR like Kupp as an extension of the running game.  If CJA or some other RB picks up more carries I expect it to be at the expense of Goff's passing, not Gurley's touches.

He also "only" had 17 rushing TD and 21 total.  That's nice efficiency, but it's not historical or anything unsustainable.  Even giving him his average of 1.2 TD per game would put him at 19.4 TD - not even top 10 in NFL history.  But let's say he does regress.  That's fine, he led all RB by over 2.4 PPG.  That's 38.4 points over 16 games, or 6.5 TD's.  He can afford to drop off a little bit while still maintaining elite value. 

 

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39 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I really think you are making to much of his injury and long term impact. He had an exit physical, no surgery needed. He does not have a torn ACL or anything. I for one have zero worries about him being full go in about 7 more months.

The concern going forward is that Rams become more focused next year on scaling back Gurley's workload.  Speaking to CJ's comments he said having two capable RB's gave McVay more tools to work with and enabled them to try and keep Gurley fresh. Whether it's CJ or someone else my concern is this will be a goal next season. Not a RBBC of course, but a slight reduction.  Enough of a slight reduction to take him from lock top 2 pick to more of a lock top 5 pick.

At worst he’d be kinda like Kamara. I could live with that from about 3rd overall on.

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15 hours ago, dkp993 said:

lol what is leaking out?

CJ Anderson

A) is not a doctor

B) Anderson said while Gurley never disclosed to him the injury, he believed it to be a sprained knee.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/20/we-finally-know-why-todd-gurley-disappeared-in-the-super-bowl/

 

so McVay and Gurley deny an injury, but you believe Anderson?  Hilarious.  

 

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Just now, tjnc09 said:

lol what is leaking out?

CJ Anderson

A) is not a doctor

B) Anderson said while Gurley never disclosed to him the injury, he believed it to be a sprained knee.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/20/we-finally-know-why-todd-gurley-disappeared-in-the-super-bowl/

 

so McVay and Gurley deny an injury, but you believe Anderson?  Hilarious.  

 

Is this really the hill you want to die on?  

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Just now, rockaction said:

Is this really the hill you want to die on?  

Show me the definitive proof he was injured.  I like to form my opinions on credible sources and facts, not wild speculation.  I'm not a gullible media puppet.

 

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19 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

What does this have to do with the Shark Pool?  

 

Has to do with me telling you I’m done  engaging with you on this. No need for you to quote me any longer.   

Edited by dkp993
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I thought when someone quoted me there would be actual news that Gurley was injured.  Instead, it's a speculative quote from a backup RB desperate to keep a job with the only NFL team that was interested in him.  

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/todd-gurley-super-bowl-injury

Here's a great article that uses some common sense about what really happened to Gurley.

"That’s what you do in the biggest moments — regardless of matchups or the flow of game. He failed to not because Gurley wasn’t healthy but because, like so many coaches before him, he let Belichick dictate how the game would be played." 🤔

 

 

 

 

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The most telling part of the CJ interview for me was not so much his speculation on the injury (though that is telling) but the decisions that went on about the workload split. CJ mentions a couple times that it was not a “hot hand” approach. He knew he would get some carries but that it was made clear to him that when TG wanted in he was in. That TG was going to dictate his work load.  This lines up with TG dealing with something and knowing his knee couldn’t hold up to a heavy work load.  Thus he self limited.   

There is no question I’m purely speculating here on an injury, but as I mentioned in the past having personal experience with lots of knee problems (4 surgeries and more planned) I have periods where I’m normal and can perform like I did in the past.  The issue is fatigue and weakness set in quickly.  

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The argument from the Gurley supporters before was that the Rams didn't want to disclose an "injury" because they would be fined.

Now that Anderson has "confirmed" Gurley's "injury", this should be confirmed by Goodell with fines like he did this year with Miami and Oakland.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

That isn't definitive proof.

By your standard, anyone offering “definitive proof” would be committing a HIPPA violation and facing jailtime.  Good luck waiting for that to be posted here...

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15 minutes ago, Arodin said:

By your standard, anyone offering “definitive proof” would be committing a HIPPA violation and facing jailtime.  Good luck waiting for that to be posted here...

Not necessarily.  I tend to believe the player's coach and player himself over the team's other RB.  Why wouldn't they admit to Gurley's injury, but be okay that Anderson released that private information?  That contradicts the earlier excuse from Gurley supporters that they couldn't admit an injury now because of possible fines from the NFL (if Goodell doesn't fine the Rams now we know Anderson is lying)

Edited by tjnc09

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1 hour ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

bolded = my eyes and the usage

 

I’m with you.

 

I can’t remember a team changing their offensive usage of a player so much so late in the season. That weird sideline tackle on his lower leg/ankle near the end of the season is the smoking gun for me. And the team trying to lie about it seems like similar things to what Belichek used to do when abusing the Probable or Questionable tag a few years back. Simple gamesmanship. Not sure why this seems so far fetched to believe. 

Edited by joey
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25 minutes ago, joey said:

I’m with you.

 

I can’t remember a team changing their offensive usage of a player so much so late in the season. That weird sideline tackle on his lower leg/ankle near the end of the season is the smoking gun for me. And the team trying to lie about it seems like similar things to what Belichek used to do when abusing the Probable or Questionable tag a few years back. Simple gamesmanship. Not sure why this seems so far fetched to believe. 

Same reason it always is in situations like this. They are much smarter then all of us and aren’t sheep like us rubes are.  

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2 hours ago, joey said:

I’m with you.

 

I can’t remember a team changing their offensive usage of a player so much so late in the season. That weird sideline tackle on his lower leg/ankle near the end of the season is the smoking gun for me. And the team trying to lie about it seems like similar things to what Belichek used to do when abusing the Probable or Questionable tag a few years back. Simple gamesmanship. Not sure why this seems so far fetched to believe. 

His name is spelled Belichick.

The NFL changed the rules in 2016 so "the team trying to lie about it seems like similar things to what Belichick used to do when abusing the Probable or Questionable tag a few years back" is not a good example because teams are not allowed to do that anymore.

The great thing now about the Anderson news is if Goodell fines the Rams we know that Gurley was truly injured and their team maliciously hid the news.  If he doesn't, all the posts about an injury have been a bunch of unsubstantiated excuses.

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5 hours ago, tjnc09 said:

His name is spelled Belichick.

The NFL changed the rules in 2016 so "the team trying to lie about it seems like similar things to what Belichick used to do when abusing the Probable or Questionable tag a few years back" is not a good example because teams are not allowed to do that anymore.

The great thing now about the Anderson news is if Goodell fines the Rams we know that Gurley was truly injured and their team maliciously hid the news.  If he doesn't, all the posts about an injury have been a bunch of unsubstantiated excuses.

Thanks for correcting my typo. You must be a real peach to hang out with. 

 

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On 2/20/2019 at 2:04 PM, tjnc09 said:

Instead, it's a speculative quote from a backup RB desperate to keep a job with the only NFL team that was interested in him.

You theory here is that spilling the beans on their secret makes him MORE likely to keep his job? Interesting. 

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On 2/20/2019 at 4:46 PM, The Man With No Name said:

2019 Best Ball Drafts - he went 2nd in one I did in January. Just took him at 5 in one just started

I got him at 5.  Pretty stoked about that.

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On 2/20/2019 at 1:37 PM, tjnc09 said:

I'm not a gullible media puppet

 

On 2/20/2019 at 11:03 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

I think this was obvious to most rational thinkers

 

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14 hours ago, Mash said:

Rams should be fine on this if what the NFL is basing this information request on is CJ's interview because CJ was answering a question phrased to him as "when you got there".  Rams can simply say of course Gurley was hurt when CJ got here, was listed on the injury report and deactivated weeks 16 and 17. We hid nothing. 

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48 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

 

 

Most teams don't sign a RB midseason who averaged ~7ypc while replacing an injured RB

Gurley looked great against the Cowboys

There is plenty of evidence that Gurley is not completely immune to matchups 

The Saints saw Gurley twice and had a top three run defense this year

Gurley's early problems against the Saints were due to his hands, not his legs.  Players do get benched.

The Patriots typical game plan is to shut down a team's "star" player (ie Patriots held Hill/Kelce to 65 total yards, only time u100 yds ALL season)

The Patriots had an extra week to prepare for the SB which is an eternity for Belichick (especially against an offense that became painfully predictable)

 

Todd Gurley said he was healthy

Sean McVay said he was healthy

A former NFL team doctor thought he was healthy in his professional medical opinion

The Next Gen Stats for Gurley suggest he was healthy

 

Todd Gurley practiced in FULL each week before the NFCC and SB

He was never on any type of injury report - not even questionable

Lying about injuries is against the NFL rules

 

Rational thinking is using a collection of evidence to form an opinion on something that is not known.  "Gurley had a few bad games so he must have been injured" is laziness when there is no definitive proof AT THIS TIME he wasn't healthy. 

Gurley had two really tough matchups against the Saints and Patriots to end the season.  Even if he was 100% healthy, there's a really good chance he would have struggled anyways.

 

 

 

 

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On 2/20/2019 at 3:49 PM, tjnc09 said:

Two derivations of speculate.  Thanks for confirming I've been right all this time.

Be way cooler. You're consistently reported as being a tool. Be way cooler. If you don't think you're being uncool, please find a new board. 

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On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 7:52 PM, dkp993 said:

Yawn.  

 

On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 10:38 AM, dkp993 said:

Bye Felicia. 

 

1 hour ago, FBG Moderator said:

Be way cooler. You're consistently reported as being a tool. Be way cooler. If you don't think you're being uncool, please find a new board. 

Sure, no problem.  Can you let me know how comments like "Yawn" and "Bye Felicia" are considered constructive posts in the Shark Pool though?  I am genuinely asking why that type of content is acceptable here.

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From the dynasty article here this week.....

The Todd Gurley saga will be much-debated this offseason. In your opinion, was he hurt in the Super Bowl or are we seeing the beginning of the end? Where does he fit in your Top 10 overall and Top 10 at the position?

Simpkins

I find it laughable that we are even having a serious discussion about this. It’s very clear that Gurley was hurt. We saw him riding the exercise bike between possessions during the Super Bowl. The broadcast team noted that they saw him favoring his knee during practice. If you watched carefully, you noted he ran in a straight line and didn’t cut, which is out of character for his running style. I think people want to trust the coaching staff saying he wasn’t hurt, but to me, that was gamesmanship. They did not want New England to know Gurley was hurt and be able to scheme accordingly. Admitting it now would cause the team to lose face and potentially subject them to discipline for not disclosing the injury.

It’s one thing to be concerned about a potential problem with the knee that Gurley injured in college. It’s quite another to say that he’s “finished.” He just turned 25 for crying out loud! I know the shelf life for NFL running backs is relatively short next to other skill position players, but we should see at least another 4-5 years of production out of this very talented runner. Gurley is still my number one running back and my top overall player in dynasty rankings and that won’t change unless we find out that the knee issue is going to be a chronic problem.

Larkin

Certainly, there is a sour taste left in our mouths after the way Gurley's season ended, but it would be premature and, frankly, irresponsible to simply toss him aside. The cohesiveness of the Rams offensive line plays a large role in Gurley's ability to get downhill fast; at times he isn't touched until a few yards past the line of scrimmage, an enviable platform for any back. He must have been carrying an injury in the Super Bowl to feature so infrequently, but he has plenty of tread left on the tires in a high-octane offense; keep the faith. As far as rankings, Gurley would be among my top five backs and would be around ninth or 10th in my overall rankings.

Parsons

Gurley was hurt or it was one of the bigger coaching blunders in terms of player usage and personnel in recent memory. I have not moved Gurley down in my values and he has slipped from his RB2 perch in many startup drafts presenting a value this offseason.

Haseley

Was he hurt in the Super Bowl? Yes, I believe that to be the case. I think the Rams knew that he was hurt worse than they were leading on, and if it weren't for C.J. Anderson, they never would've advanced as far as they did. Time and rest will help Gurley's case. I expect him to be back to normal for the 2019 season, but he has moved down a few notches in my dynasty rankings. He's a still a Top 5 back for me at this time. At age 24 he still has another three to four big years left in him.

Hicks

It is irrelevant moving forward if he was injured or not. The offensive coaching staff was completely outplayed in the playoffs and Gurley was just part of the problem. What the Rams do to backup Gurley will be crucial. If we see C.J. Anderson again, then I would be very concerned as he played very well for them. If we are back to Malcolm Brown, then all is good. I have moved Gurley down to six as I have concerns about Sean McVay and Jared Goff being able to overcome good defensive coaching. No doubt they will work on this in the offseason and we will see how they match up in 2019. Gurley was on record-setting pace in 2018 until various aches and pains put an end to that. If the Rams get back on track offensively then Gurley should be a top three back.

Wood

How could he not be hurt? A player doesn't go from the most explosive, dynamic runner in the league for 1.5 seasons into someone not good enough to play over C.J. Anderson. Unless he gets offseason surgery, Gurley should absolutely remain a top-5 pick in redraft and keeper leagues. Right now, Gurley ranks fourth in my positional rankings, behind Saquon Barkley, Alvin Kamara, and Ezekiel Elliott. He's also fourth in my overall rankings.

Hindery

Gurley is the #4 overall player in my rankings and RB4. Saquon Barkley, Ezekiel Elliott, and Christian McCaffrey are each younger and feel slightly less risky than Gurley based upon how the season ended and Gurley’s injury history. 

I doubt I will drop Gurley any further than that. He has been a fantasy monster the last two years. He was the fantasy RB1 in 2017 and was the RB1 by a decent margin after 15 weeks. He should be the same guy in the same offense moving forward and he’s only 24-years old.

It is hard for me to believe Gurley was 100% in the playoffs. Whether it was knee pain slowing him down or he was just slightly out of shape due to missing a few weeks of practice, we may never know. However, we have a big enough sample size to know what Gurley is capable of.

 

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On 2/25/2019 at 12:23 AM, tjnc09 said:

 

 

Sure, no problem.  Can you let me know how comments like "Yawn" and "Bye Felicia" are considered constructive posts in the Shark Pool though?  I am genuinely asking why that type of content is acceptable here.

Those likely weren't seen. If you see something over the line, please report it. 

Most importantly, please be cooler. Thanks.

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The only way someone can be this negative on Gurley at this point in his career is if they traded him for garbage and are now trying to justify it.  Otherwise, I don't see it.

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On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 7:08 PM, dkp993 said:

https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2019/02/22/nfl-rams-cj-anderson-todd-gurley-knee-injury-comments/

Cj Anderson ✔ @cjandersonb22

Everybody is buzzin @RealSkipBayless ask how hurt was TG WHEN I GOT TO YHE RAMS. That was week 16. The response more than we all thought. Including my self. Not playoffs when he return when he was healthy. THE ? Was HOW HURT WAS HE WHEN YOU GOT THERE? Dummies how bout yall listen

Cj Anderson ✔ @cjandersonb22

Listen to the Question. The Question that was ask How HURT WAS TG WHEN I GOT THERE. Last time I check I got there week 16 not Dallas not NO and not SB53. I answer the Question that was ask.

The information "leaked" out was manipulated by the media to grab headlines.

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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/28/todd-gurley-does-not-need-knee-surgery/

Posted by Charean Williams on February 28, 2019, 10:05 AM EST

Rams running back Todd Gurley does not need knee surgery, coach Sean McVay said during his media session Thursday at the NFL Scouting Combine.

McVay continued to downplay Gurley’s injury and again blamed himself for not getting Gurley more involved in the NFC Championship Game and the Super Bowl.

Gurley did not appear on the injury report before the NFC Championship Game or the Super Bowl but had only 16 touches for 47 yards and one touchdown in those two games combined. He missed the final two regular-season games for what the Rams called inflammation.

Gurley gained 118 yards from scrimmage against the Cowboys in the divisional round before playing a complementary role the rest of the way.

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On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 8:03 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

I think this was obvious to most rational thinkers.

Except it's not true.  

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2 hours ago, tjnc09 said:

https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2019/02/22/nfl-rams-cj-anderson-todd-gurley-knee-injury-comments/

Cj Anderson ✔ @cjandersonb22

Everybody is buzzin @RealSkipBayless ask how hurt was TG WHEN I GOT TO YHE RAMS. That was week 16. The response more than we all thought. Including my self. Not playoffs when he return when he was healthy. THE ? Was HOW HURT WAS HE WHEN YOU GOT THERE? Dummies how bout yall listen

Cj Anderson ✔ @cjandersonb22

Listen to the Question. The Question that was ask How HURT WAS TG WHEN I GOT THERE. Last time I check I got there week 16 not Dallas not NO and not SB53. I answer the Question that was ask.

The information "leaked" out was manipulated by the media to grab headlines.

Not sure how much more clear I need to be. No need to quote me on this anymore. I’m done with you on this topic. We just need to agree to disagree and move on.  

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