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Official Samaje Perine - A Chance at Redemption?

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Chris Thompson is done for this season after that ugly leg injury. Perine is going to be the man in Washington now. He actually got some passes too, which will be big for him.


 

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Samaje Perine rushed 23 times for 117 yards and a touchdown in the Redskins' Week 11 loss to the Saints.

 

Perine added a nine-yard catch. His only other passing target was a drop on a screen. Known for putting the ball on the ground, Perine also committed a butterfingers fumble, but he was thankfully ruled down. Really struggling so far in 2017 entering today, Perine not only emerged with by far the best game of his rookie campaign, but even more opportunity with Chris Thompson (broken leg) done for the year. There will be plenty of drives to finish for the Redskins' solid offense, putting Perine squarely in the RB2 mix, even with bye weeks officially over.

 

 

Edited by The Frankman
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anyone who happened to watch the 2nd half... did marshall fill in for the thompson role to a tee? or was it pretty much perine? looks like marshall was signed off the eagles practice squad last week so seems unlikely he'll be thrown in to passing situations?

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26 minutes ago, iamkoza said:

anyone who happened to watch the 2nd half... did marshall fill in for the thompson role to a tee? or was it pretty much perine? looks like marshall was signed off the eagles practice squad last week so seems unlikely he'll be thrown in to passing situations?

Mostly Perine and short plays to Crowder. Byron Marshall did come in a few times but didn't (and  won't) have anywhere near the usage Chris Thompson had. Unless they try to sign a vet receiving back, it's going to be a revamp of the offensive play-calling. If Reed was healthy I could see alot more of 2 TE sets in the future.

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9 hours ago, EBF said:

Nice to see him have a good game, but wow he looked SLOW on that long run. He almost looks more like a FB than a RB.

Breakaway speed isn’t his game. The power back role is, and was in college.

Today, Perine started the 1st with a few inside power runs for a handful of yards. Then late in the quarter, he showed quick feet that helped him slip into the next level, especially on that 30 yard scamper. Showed awareness of the angles on that run. Thompson wasn't in the game until his busted coverage 3 & 6 red zone TD.

In the 2nd there were more of those 3-4 yard stomps. A ballsy 4th & 6 from the 45 allowed Perine to power to a TD.

He executed nicely on a chip block reception, and wasn’t used in pass pro as usual. Showed why to start the second half, being the turnstyle that forced Cousins to intentionally ground the ball.

A few more 3-4 yard power runs, and a few nice plays where he muscled his way around the left corner. 

He proved to me he is developing his vision - using a first hop well to accelerate in another direction, looking patient waiting for his block and being decisive through the hole.

Last 10 mins of regulation, Perine was in a rhythm with great gains on quick cuts. But wasn’t able to get the yard they needed to potentially seal the game.

Overall, liked what I saw. Perine isn’t special, and won’t get Thompson’s catches, but he can be productive in games against any runnel defenses ROS.

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I love how fickle real life football and subsequently fantasy football is. After week 1 Kareem Hunt was the second coming and Perine was looking like a washed up JStew with a fumbling problem. Now Hunt is getting Andy Reided and Perine finds himself in a good situation looking like a young JStew with a fumbling problem.

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3 minutes ago, SameSongNDance said:

I love how fickle real life football and subsequently fantasy football is. After week 1 Kareem Hunt was the second coming and Perine was looking like a washed up JStew with a fumbling problem. Now Hunt is getting Andy Reided and Perine finds himself in a good situation looking like a young JStew with a fumbling problem.

What’s your feeling on both going forward? I don’t know that I trust Washington/Gruden to not add another RB to the mix this offseason. KC could but Reid has mostly been loyal to younger players (vets have been a different story).

Edited by Bojang0301

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12 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

What’s your feeling on both going forward? I don’t know that I trust Washington/Gruden to not add another RB to the mix this offseason. KC could but Reid has mostly been loyal to younger players (vets have been a different story).

From a dynasty perspective it's too early to say on Perine, it'll depend on how he finishes out the season with the opportunity he's going to be given. I haven't had the chance to watch the entire game yet but from the clips I've seen it does seem as if the game has slowed down a for him, he was actually recognizing running lanes. 

I don't think KC will add anyone of note in the off season. Hunt is solid and West/Ware were recently signed to contract extensions. Honestly though, if Ware hypothetically comes back near 100% next year I could see him being mixed in. I'm also a Ware truther though. 

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6 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

 

Overall, liked what I saw. Perine isn’t special, and won’t get Thompson’s catches, but he can be productive in games against any runnel defenses ROS.

Do who does? Marshall? Wrs/te? 

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Starting with supreme confidence Thursday night

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2 hours ago, iamkoza said:

Do who does? Marshall? Wrs/te? 

Good q, my guess is employing Davis a little more in flares and outs, and more out to the WRs.

Perine can catch balls but he is not the kind of back that seems to thrive in this part of the game to me just in terms of skill set match.

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10 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Breakaway speed isn’t his game. The power back role is, and was in college.

Today, Perine started the 1st with a few inside power runs for a handful of yards. Then late in the quarter, he showed quick feet that helped him slip into the next level, especially on that 30 yard scamper. Showed awareness of the angles on that run. Thompson wasn't in the game until his busted coverage 3 & 6 red zone TD.

In the 2nd there were more of those 3-4 yard stomps. A ballsy 4th & 6 from the 45 allowed Perine to power to a TD.

He executed nicely on a chip block reception, and wasn’t used in pass pro as usual. Showed why to start the second half, being the turnstyle that forced Cousins to intentionally ground the ball.

A few more 3-4 yard power runs, and a few nice plays where he muscled his way around the left corner. 

He proved to me he is developing his vision - using a first hop well to accelerate in another direction, looking patient waiting for his block and being decisive through the hole.

Last 10 mins of regulation, Perine was in a rhythm with great gains on quick cuts. But wasn’t able to get the yard they needed to potentially seal the game.

Overall, liked what I saw. Perine isn’t special, and won’t get Thompson’s catches, but he can be productive in games against any runnel defenses ROS.

Good stuff.

Which matchups would you consider runnel D's?

NYG

@Dal

@LAC

Ari

Den

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4 hours ago, iamkoza said:

Do who does? Marshall? Wrs/te? 

I would guess crowder absorbs the majority of thompson's targets

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35 minutes ago, tkrull said:

Good stuff.

Which matchups would you consider runnel D's?

NYG

@Dal

@LAC

Ari

Den

1) NYG - Now that Giants seem to care, not a defense I'd target considering Perine is a power back who can't catch (Snacks Harrison is a beast), but Thursday Night F*ckball... it depends on your options.

2) @ Dallas - No Sean Lee and possibly no Hitchens? Gimme.

3) @ Chargers - Bosa/Ingram are tough but the unit can be run on.

4) Ari - Yes please. Positive game script for days...

5) Den - Flex at best, probably benched

 

Again hard to predict the later games because the situation may change, but that's my feeling right now.

 

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41 minutes ago, tkrull said:

Good stuff.

Which matchups would you consider runnel D's?

NYG

@Dal

@LAC

Ari

Den

 

The only true runnel D listed here is LAC. But..

NYG isn't a particularly tough match-up.

DAL is exploitable assuming Lee is out.

Heading into week 11 ARI was giving up the 14th most ppg to RBs in ppr leagues

Heading into week 11 DEN was actually giving up the 7th most ppg to RBs in ppr leagues. They may have turned into a runnel D as of late.

 

Edit: Clarification, those ARI and DEN stats only take into account their performances from weeks 6-10. I like to weigh recent performances more heavily when trying to figure out if a match-up is good/bad.

Edited by SameSongNDance
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Off topic... but what's a runnel D? Is that a D that funnels teams to run on them?

16 minutes ago, SameSongNDance said:

 

The only true runnel D listed here is LAC. But..

NYG isn't a particularly tough match-up.

DAL is exploitable assuming Lee is out.

Heading into week 11 ARI was giving up the 14th most ppg to RBs in ppr leagues

Heading into week 11 DEN was actually giving up the 7th most ppg to RBs in ppr leagues. They may have turned into a runnel D as of late.

 

Edit: Clarification, those ARI and DEN stats only take into account their performances from weeks 6-10. I like to weigh recent performances more heavily when trying to figure out if a match-up is good/bad.

Full disclosure, I consider myself an unbiased Giants fan and a guy who was very down on Perine. I will watch more of the game tape vs. the Saints. But the Giants are tricky to gauge recently because in a few of those games Week 6-10 they quit... Week 11 at home they played hard. 

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1 minute ago, The Frankman said:

Off topic... but what's a runnel D? Is that a D that funnels teams to run on them?

Yea run funnel defense. To be honest the first time I've seen the term "runnel D" was in Stompin' Tom's post just now but it sounded good so I went with it. Too bad that wordplay won't work with pass funnel too. 

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Agree with @SameSongNDance and @The Frankman:

1) Giants have through this season have had trouble stopping backs that get through the first level -- LBs and secondary have just not done a great job stopping the run. And before this weekend, they were allowing 3rd most yards to rushers (over 130 per game) Wouldn't call them a true runnel as both phases of the Giants D has underperformed in general all year. Didn't surrender any TDs on the ground against the Chiefs but they did allow over 100 yards against on the ground.

2) DAL -- have been better against the run this year, they have a pretty stout line, but Lee's presence in the middle is a big factor. If Lee isn't there, it's an easier schedule, but would look at other RBs on my roster and potentially play the better matchup.

3) ARI -- Cards' LB corp has struggled but I think they've been fairly respectful against the run as a whole this year. Before this week, they were 6th in fewest fantasy points allowed to RBs and 7th on yards per game allowed (78 yds/game). They weren't able to contain HOU this past week, however, letting them run over 120 on the ground.

4) LAC: As mentioned above, a true runnel. They've had some spots where they shined (I think they did well against the Jags and limited Fournette) but this is a D that's been targeted by opposing runners, showed they had no answer for a guy like Shady this past weekend, and should remain a good target going forward.

5) DEN - While the Broncos surprisingly let a guy like Orleans Darkwa and the tandem of Dion Lewis and Rex Burkhead to do some huge damage against them, this remains a solid defensive unit. The places where DEN started to show some troube was against really fleet, quick backs -- which Perine really isn't. So this would be an avoid.

Summary: Would definitely consider throwing Perine in the mix in upcoming games against the Giants and the Chargers, look at other match up options you may have for ARI and DAL, and avoid DEN.

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He will be a Top 10 RB this week against the Giants at home on a short week. I dont think predicting 80 and a score most weeks is far off with him in this circumstance. He is the only quality back they have and his QB is a high quality too.

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1 hour ago, SameSongNDance said:

 Too bad that wordplay won't work with pass funnel too. 

Pass-sieve..... tm

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1 hour ago, SameSongNDance said:

Yea run funnel defense. To be honest the first time I've seen the term "runnel D" was in Stompin' Tom's post just now but it sounded good so I went with it. Too bad that wordplay won't work with pass funnel too. 

I've just called those funnel Ds -- D's that funnel production to WRs as they are good at defending the run -- with runnel being the inverse.

I've seen this terminology used out in the wild and on FBG's as well (in their articles). Hope I got it right.

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23 hours ago, The Frankman said:

Chris Thompson is done for this season after that ugly leg injury. Perine is going to be the man in Washington now. He actually got some passes too, which will be big for him.

No brained to spend my remaining FAAB on him?

Drop Martin or Mixon?

Drop both and allocate 80% to Perine and 20% to L. Murray? 

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35 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

No brained to spend my remaining FAAB on him?

Drop Martin or Mixon?

Drop both and allocate 80% to Perine and 20% to L. Murray? 

1) Depending on what your league is, yes.

2) I definitely think Martin is droppable, hard to drop Mixon when locked into so much volume. However, Perine is locked into more volume and actually did something with it.

3) I like Murray a little more than Perine because of his potential in the passing game (he has run a LOT of passing routes). But if Washington decides to use Perine in the passing game by default... oh boy. 80/20 Perine/Murray sounds spot on, no lower than 75/25 (trying to get both ;)).
 

Personally, my guess is that they rework the O and feature Crowder/Reed (if healthy)/Grant/Marshall short, but if they don't and Perine could find a way to get 3-4 receptions a game AND 18+ carries... that's like RB1 usage. You don't see that everyday and you cannot ignore the chance that could occur. Again, I'm not even a big fan of Perine but you have to play the opportunity share game, and there is no word on Washington signing a passing down back yet (LeShun Daniels is on their practice squad but WHO THE HECK IS HE).

Edited by The Frankman

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16 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

1) Depending on what your league is, yes.

2) I definitely think Martin is droppable, hard to drop Mixon when locked into so much volume. However, Perine is locked into more volume and actually did something with it.

3) I like Murray a little more than Perine because of his potential in the passing game (he has run a LOT of passing routes). But if Washington decides to use Perine in the passing game by default... oh boy. 80/20 Perine/Murray sounds spot on, no lower than 75/25 (trying to get both ;)).
 

Personally, my guess is that they rework the O and feature Crowder/Reed (if healthy)/Grant/Marshall short, but if they don't and Perine could find a way to get 3-4 receptions a game AND 18+ carries... that's like Zeke Elliot usage. You don't see that everyday and you cannot ignore the chance that could occur. Again, I'm not even a big fan of Perine but you have to play the opportunity share game, and there is no word on Washington signing a passing down back yet (Christine Michael is on their practice squad but not a passcatcher).

According to the Redskins official site, the only RB on the practice squad is LeShun Daniels, rookie out of Iowa.  No mention of Christine Michael.

That said, I'd expect they're checking out all the practice squads around the league for the best pass-catching FA RB available.  Perine should get all he can handle, but they need some help there.  Maybe it's Byron Marshall or maybe it's someone else they bring in.

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7 minutes ago, JFS171 said:

According to the Redskins official site, the only RB on the practice squad is LeShun Daniels, rookie out of Iowa.  No mention of Christine Michael.

That said, I'd expect they're checking out all the practice squads around the league for the best pass-catching FA RB available.  Perine should get all he can handle, but they need some help there.  Maybe it's Byron Marshall or maybe it's someone else they bring in.

Yeah I had edited it a few minutes ago (old article until I found their actual chart). Marshall had very few snaps after the injury to Thompson.

 

Samaje Perine 48/69 - 70%

Chris Thompson 18/69 - 26%

Byron Marshall 3/69 - 4%

 

EDIT: I don't know how many each had after the Thompson injury though. Regarding getting a FA pass catching back,  Bobby Rainey and Tim Hightower make sense. Rainey was just cut by Baltimore a week ago and Hightower is a vet known for his pass blocking and tough style.

Edited by The Frankman

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4 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

Yeah I had edited it a few minutes ago (old article until I found their actual chart). Marshall had very few snaps after the injury to Thompson.

 

Samaje Perine 48/69 - 70%

Chris Thompson 18/69 - 26%

Byron Marshall 3/69 - 4%

 

EDIT: I don't know how many each had after the Thompson injury though. Regarding getting a FA pass catching back,  Bobby Rainey and Tim Hightower make sense. Rainey was just cut by Baltimore a week ago and Hightower is a vet known for his pass blocking and tough style.

Was just about to say Hightower made some sense.  Trying to scan the NFL rosters ... not many practice squad RBs anywhere of note.  Certainly not that fit that mold any better than Marshall does. 

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If only some team would waive a pass catching RB ...

 

Quote

Paul Calvisi‏Verified account @PaulCalvisi 2m2 minutes ago

#AZCardinals announce that team has released RB Andre Ellington + signed RB Bronson Hill to the practice squad. #ThereWillBeChange

 

Edited by JFS171
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2 minutes ago, JFS171 said:

If only some team would waive a pass catching RB ...

 

 

This tweet should actually read that they signed Bronson Hill to the active roster, from the practice squad.  That makes you kinda wonder if some team was trying to sign away Hill and the Cardinals made the move to protect him.

Either way, I have to think the Redskins are going to try to claim Ellington.  I'm not sure he's better than Marshall, but he'd fit the pass catching role.

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26 minutes ago, JFS171 said:

This tweet should actually read that they signed Bronson Hill to the active roster, from the practice squad.  That makes you kinda wonder if some team was trying to sign away Hill and the Cardinals made the move to protect him.

Either way, I have to think the Redskins are going to try to claim Ellington.  I'm not sure he's better than Marshall, but he'd fit the pass catching role.

Andre Ellington? Dammit he's ten times better than Marshall. If Washington signs him he could take ALL the pass catching work and get 3-5 carries, I'm surprised you aren't familiar with his work in Arizona. 

 

Before the Cards signed David Johnson/AP, over the last few years Ellington basically was Chris Thompson before Chris Thompson hit the the scene.

Edited by The Frankman

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10 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

Andre Ellington? Dammit he's ten times better than Marshall. If Washington signs him he could take ALL the pass catching work and get 3-5 carries, I'm surprised you aren't familiar with his work in Arizona. 

 

Before the Cards signed David Johnson/AP, over the last few years Ellington basically was Chris Thompson before Chris Thompson hit the the scene.

Chris Thompson is basically doing what Ellington never could. I am not sure if Ellington doesn't fit in the Arians offense, lost his juice due to injuries or if Arians burnt all the tread off his tires by trying to make him a workhorse, but Ellington doesn't seem capable of doing what Thompson was doing. 

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lol, Ellington is so good that he just got cut.

Relax. While Ellington will get scooped by them most likely, he is goingt o take all the passing work and 5 carries half way through the season, when he couldnt play over a washed up Peterson?

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21 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Chris Thompson is basically doing what Ellington never could. I am not sure if Ellington doesn't fit in the Arians offense, lost his juice due to injuries or if Arians burnt all the tread off his tires by trying to make him a workhorse, but Ellington doesn't seem capable of doing what Thompson was doing. 

He could never stay healthy, especially after that one year he was the feature back. Not durable enough or good enough in pass protection...

Quote

 

ESPN's Field Yates considers the Redskins a possible landing spot for Andre Ellington.

 

The Redskins have a screen-heavy offense that runs through the short pass game and are in need of a Chris Thompson replacement. Ellington could complement Samaje Perine and add depth with Byron Marshall the only other healthy back. Washington is a scheme fit for Ellington, but he could draw interest from multiple teams.

 

Shut up, shut up, shut up somebody ahead of Washington claim him! Don't let him drop to them!

Edited by The Frankman

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1 minute ago, The Frankman said:

He could never stay healthy, especially after that one year he was the feature back. Not durable enough or good enough in pass protection...

Shut up, shut up, shut up somebody ahead of Washington claim him! Don't let him drop to them! 

I doubt it matters for Perine. If Ellington can walk in there and take significant rushing attempts from Perine than Perine was doomed from the start. Perine isn't going to be getting many passes thrown his way and that's a significant part of the Washington offense. Whether it's Ellington or Marshall, it's irrleveant IMO.

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? Carries aren't the issue here. The thing that could vault Perine into RB1 territory besides volume is a high floor due to getting most of the receptions out of the backfield. Check out the games before AP arrived... Ellington was PPR Gold. Washington wouldn't have to change their O at all and he'd immediately destroy Perine's receptions floor.

Edited by The Frankman
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Perine has seen target share percentages of 4%, 3%, 0%, 8%, 0%, 2% and 6% when active.

Like Kelley I expect him to be much more valuable in standard formats than he is in PPR. Honestly though, PPR is so silly that even 2-3 targets does wonders for a RB's floor. I really think full PPR has jumped the shark but that's for another thread.

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I think it's silly to assume WAS won't sign another RB to provide depth behind Perine as they really do have no one. 

That said, would imagine that if anyone signed at this point of the season was a threat, they'd be active on another 53-man team right now. 

But stranger things have happened, like a journeyman QB going from stocking shelves one day to HOF the next (or quite a few many days later, but you get the gist).

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15 hours ago, SameSongNDance said:

if Ware hypothetically comes back near 100% next year I could see him being mixed in. I'm also a Ware truther though. 

IMO this was likely all along.  Neither is a superstar, and they complement each other very well.

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1 hour ago, Weebs210 said:

Yeah this thread has turned strange. No one they sign will get any where near the snaps Thompson was getting.

Thompson was always an extreme case, but Ellington can easily replicate Thompson in the passing game, especially since he's almost as many receptions this year as Thompson in less work.

 

Also I am allowed to irrationally panic over something that may never happen but sounds possible. It goes on in every thread, so I get one. I'm using mine right now. :fro:

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4 hours ago, The Frankman said:

Andre Ellington? Dammit he's ten times better than Marshall. If Washington signs him he could take ALL the pass catching work and get 3-5 carries, I'm surprised you aren't familiar with his work in Arizona. 

 

Before the Cards signed David Johnson/AP, over the last few years Ellington basically was Chris Thompson before Chris Thompson hit the the scene.

I see Ellington as a known quantity, and one that’s useful in fantasy in limited bursts, but never ends up being worth what we think it is.  Arians, a pretty smart coach, just decided he’d rather have Bronson Hill on his roster than Andre Ellington, who lost his job to DJ Foster on Sunday. 

I’m intrigued by Marshall because his coach says he’s significantly heavier/thicker than he was as a prospect (5’9” 215-220 is the archetype practically), there are photos from beat writers saying he looks huge in pads, he’s always been a great athlete, and as a part-time/converted WR, I have little concerns about his hands. I posted it in the thread I started earlier, but Marshall was the 8th ranked RB in the entire country in his HS class. 

We don’t know that Ellington will make it to Washington in the waiver order or if they want him, but no ... I’m not convinced he’s better than Marshall when we don’t know what Marshall is.  I think we have a fairly good idea what Ellington is. 

Maybe I’m on an island there

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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Watching the game rewind I see the Saints game was - by a good margin - the best game of the year for the Redskins O-line. Saw a nice jump cut, he hop squeezed through a small crease on the carry that took him over 100, did a nice job on his only catch (it was an on the go flare he handled easily.) For the most part, C+G counter traps that opened gaping holes, he got what was there for him. Exceptional pad level, powers through arm tackles, always the hammer never the nail. Limited agility and average top gear.

Which is to say the former backup to Joe Mixon may not be a kingmaker (there's likely none coming this year), but don’t overthink it. On volume alone he’s a solid RB2/Flex RoS. The Redskins are 10th in the NFL in red zone opportunities per game and as long as ball security is not an issue he should flourish there. 

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6 hours ago, SameSongNDance said:

Perine has seen target share percentages of 4%, 3%, 0%, 8%, 0%, 2% and 6% when active.

Like Kelley I expect him to be much more valuable in standard formats than he is in PPR. Honestly though, PPR is so silly that even 2-3 targets does wonders for a RB's floor. I really think full PPR has jumped the shark but that's for another thread.

Ayyy who wears leather while water skiing anyways?

What you say is true. It is so clear that pointing it out has somewhat jumped the shark as well, yet this continues to be a very popular format.even though it is Jim Carey and Jeff Daniels.

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2 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

Watching the game rewind I see the Saints game was - by a good margin - the best game of the year for the Redskins O-line. Saw a nice jump cut, he hop squeezed through a small crease on the carry that took him over 100, did a nice job on his only catch (it was an on the go flare he handled easily.) For the most part, C+G counter traps that opened gaping holes, he got what was there for him. Exceptional pad level, powers through arm tackles, always the hammer never the nail. Limited agility and average top gear.

Which is to say the former backup to Joe Mixon may not be a kingmaker (there's likely none coming this year), but don’t overthink it. On volume alone he’s a solid RB2/Flex RoS. The Redskins are 10th in the NFL in red zone opportunities per game and as long as ball security is not an issue he should flourish there. 

He wasn’t the backup to Joe Mixon

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