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Flint, Michigan lead poisoning in water supply (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
I haven't posted on this situation. Been reading on it for a bit now.
What he did was intentional. And not just negligent.
What he did was intentional. And not just negligent.
dirtyjay
Footballguy
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Snyder should resign immediately. This situation is sickening.
spreagle
Footballguy
Didn't Flint reconnect back to Detroits water a couple months ago? What's the holdup?
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
dirtyjay
Footballguy
The lead is still in the pipes. What happened was the solder that holds the pipes together (made of lead) started to dissolve because of all the chemicals and salt in the water and just like oil in water, you are never getting it out until you replace the pipes. The Solder is ruing and liquefied and now just dissolves a little more with every bit of water that passes through the pipes. Normally this should not happen, but all the denial and cover ups delayed all of this and screwed it up beyond repair, literally. This is just the surface of what is about to happen. When all is said and done the taxpayers will have to fix this mess while Snyder sits in office poisoning children.
dirtyjay
Footballguy
So incorrect its as if you have not been following the story.
I am not an expert on this, but have heard many of experts and scientists speak in complete detail in city hall for hours on end. A Va Tech student with nothing to gain but the facts put on some demonstrations with the water from Flint that would make every single person cringe in disgust. I have a good grasp on all the info, but whats so alarming is everything that was proven scientifically is easy to find online and none of it is disputable. SCIENCE!
I will compare this to global warming in the sense that the science and proof says everything you are seeing is a fact and those denying it are doing it for agenda only.
I live in Chicago area and brought some water back to work with me and offered anyone $100 to drink it, only after I showed them the video of what the water does to say a metal nail in a week, or the evidence of how much parts per billion of lead was in the water to educate them. They all had to sign a release not holding me liable. No one would do it and some even had the gag reflex happen to the point of vomit.
All I want to do in this thread is provide perspective of someone dealing with this mess first hand, my wifes family lives in Flint. When we first realized this issue we thought like anyone the city would fix it. When that didnt happen we thought like anyone the Governor would fix it. When that didnt happen we thought the Governor would be held accountable. When that didnt happen, we just sit helpless with out any help from those supposed to help and we now know the Governor lied and intentionally set these acts in motion knowing what the result would be makes my heart hurt for the children I know who live in my in laws community.
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Rove!
Footballguy
Slightly tangential...
Chicago has its own problems with lead
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/watchdog/ct-cha-lead-paint-hazards-met-20151231-story.html
Not to this level....but we are going to have to spend billions replacing mitigating issues with lead in a number of cities, and I think this should have proper budget priority..
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
bakes
I am the Beer God!
dirtyjay
Footballguy
We get it, you are OK with kids being poisoned to death.
Facts are tangential? Talking about the issue first hand is tangential? Do you even know what that word means?
Is this Governor Snyders alias?
Also the fact you compared Flint to Chicago is proof you are looking for a way to serve your agenda to support a conservative at every turn or are lacking any and all facts about this story.
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Rove!
Footballguy
Wow...yeah that's exactly what I said....Just wow...such an amazingly stupid post
Why don't you let the adults discuss the implications and how to proceed...
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dirtyjay
Footballguy
Fantastic, then step aside. I have been providing first hand info on the story, you? What have you provided but drivel and around about support for Snyder? Then again, you thought Martavis Bryants catch was by the rule, so, seeing things as they are is not in your wheel house.
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Rove!
Footballguy
This is not an appropriate thread to schtick it up...there are less serious threads for that kind of thing, so take it somewhere else.
Thanks
dirtyjay
Footballguy
This is the exact post that shows you have not paid attention to this thread or anything that was said in it.
But the people who are taking this seriously dont appreciate you coming in here to troll. I have been in here from the first page, you?
Its OK, we have seen you have not answered one question posed to you.
Foosball God
Foos
Rove!
Footballguy
All I meant was that the lead plumbing infrastructure in many major cities is a major area of concern and discussion of that issue is somewhat tangential to the Flint situation, which involves govt malfeasance as a catalyst. fFor you to accuse me of being OK with poisoning kids so absolutely beyond the pale of human decency.that I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was shtick.
This is the exact post that shows you have not paid attention to this thread or anything that was said in it.
But the people who are taking this seriously dont appreciate you coming in here to troll. I have been in here from the first page, you?
Its OK, we have seen you have not answered one question posed to you.
dirtyjay
Footballguy
I have been clear with the fact I am suffering from this first hand and am trying to provide, wanted or not, some perspective in what some are dealing with. In a situation like this, message board or not, some conscience is needed. This isnt trashing someone for football opinion its about the fact I see a little girl next door in leg braces who was not in them a year ago. Doctors have said her issues are from lead, no genetic disorder--- lead. This isnt schtick, its genuine anger with an elected official put in charge of making the State better doing everything intentional to make it worse.
He was thinking like a CEO of a computer company instead of a guy whose duty is to the very people he allowed to be poisoned.
If my genuine anger comes across as schtick, I am OK with that. Because I do not and will not apologize for my anger. This mess has hurt my family, you may not care because I'm just a guy on the internet, but at some point in this next 24 hours understand I will have more fill of this topic through phone calls and laying in my bed hearing my wife cry than you will have in a lifetime on this topic. I dont say that to be rude, but just to let you know of the reality you can see on google.
I come here to share stories as an outlet because I much rather share the anger I have and the facts I know and what I am experiencing than share my anger with my wife. I need to be the strong man for her and that would be counterproductive.
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Rove!
Footballguy
I am genuinely sorry about your personal experience. I only hope that truth prevails and all of those responsible get held to account. Also, that we understand what went wrong, so we can try to prevent it from happening again.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
The different ways these guys cheated to make it look like their water was safe, it's awful.
One report said their first effort to skew the results started before they even drew samples. When selecting homes to sample, 25% of the homes they selected were on one street where the (lead and iron) water pipes had been completely replaced a few years ago, presumably in an effort to skew the city's overall results downward.
Apparently that wasn't enough, so they eliminated some of the samples from the report to make it look like they were within acceptable levels. Turrible.
http://michiganradio.org/post/expert-says-michigan-officials-changed-flint-lead-report-avoid-federal-action#stream/0
This one's good too. For any math nerds, there's a video there showing how eliminating these two specific samples got their numbers within EPA requirements.
http://michiganradio.org/post/video-how-dropping-two-flints-lead-test-numbers-changed-things-state#stream/0
One report said their first effort to skew the results started before they even drew samples. When selecting homes to sample, 25% of the homes they selected were on one street where the (lead and iron) water pipes had been completely replaced a few years ago, presumably in an effort to skew the city's overall results downward.
Apparently that wasn't enough, so they eliminated some of the samples from the report to make it look like they were within acceptable levels. Turrible.
http://michiganradio.org/post/expert-says-michigan-officials-changed-flint-lead-report-avoid-federal-action#stream/0
This one's good too. For any math nerds, there's a video there showing how eliminating these two specific samples got their numbers within EPA requirements.
http://michiganradio.org/post/video-how-dropping-two-flints-lead-test-numbers-changed-things-state#stream/0
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dirtyjay
Footballguy
Snyder legacy will be Flint water crisis
http://www.freep.com/story/news/columnists/rochelle-riley/2016/01/09/snyder-legacy-flint-water-crisis/78510122/
http://www.freep.com/story/news/columnists/rochelle-riley/2016/01/09/snyder-legacy-flint-water-crisis/78510122/
dirtyjay
Footballguy
Not a Flint story, but another story about how another one of Snyders appointed Emergency Manager has failed.
This one is the Detroit Public Schools.
http://bigstory.ap.org/4416ca0ac2354c27a61b87d8de8b668b
This one is the Detroit Public Schools.
http://bigstory.ap.org/4416ca0ac2354c27a61b87d8de8b668b
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Pretty hard to make Detroit public schools any worse, but the State has somehow managed to do just that over the past seven years. Although DPS is so full of real crooks, not sure it really matters.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Now we have 10 Flint residents dead from Legionaires disease. We don't know for sure that it is due to Flint city water, but it's very worrisome.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/01/13/flint-snyder/78748494/
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/01/13/flint-snyder/78748494/
spreagle
Footballguy
Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
Wanna really run everyone out of town by making just the property owners pay? Under typical circumstances that would be ok, but this is exceptional.
Or maybe just don't do it at all and start "New" New Dehli.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
spreagle
Footballguy
I and many other around me had a similar thing with our sewer connections, clean (rain) water was leaking in, sometimes this made the sewage plant work too hard (so they say), leading to untreated sewage flowed to the lake during storms, property owners were responsible for the fix. 7 grand to line the pipe.
It stinks, I've been there, but propery owners are responsible for the fix.
bakes
I am the Beer God!
Unless a municipality has some sort of "lateral insurance" program, where homeowners pay a set amount each year that goes into a dedicated fund that the muni can use to replace laterals on an as needed basis for the homeowner rather than the homeowner contracting the replacement themselves, that is typically how it works.
With respect to Legionnaires disease, was the new source sampled for legionella? Is the new source chlorinated to kill legionella and other microbes?
We as a nation should take a hard look at cutting the military budget by, say, 5% and putting that money towards infrastructure replacement and rehab. Clean water and wastewater treatment are necessities that we cannot do without.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Cut the budget AND hold the Pentagon accountable for the money it does receive. The infrastructure is in dire need of attention. Plus its a jobs creator.
spreagle
Footballguy
Public "infrastructure" does not extend into private property. Sorry. If you own property you better have $20,000 sitting around for repairs.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
This isn't really the same as what's going on in Flint though, right? I could be wrong, but the city screwed up the pipes, knew it was causing problems and delayed fixing it. Now, doesn't the whole city need new piping?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The water was also testing positive for E. Coli so I am assuming something wasn't set up right to prevent the spread of bacteria.
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By using this logic, why do taxpayers get to use public schools which get funded by property taxes.
spreagle
Footballguy
It's sort of the same thing. Our 1960s building code allowed sewage pipe which was definitely going to allow a little rainwater inleakage. Which wasn't really a big deal back in the day when no one cared about the occasional untreated dump into Lake Michigan. Untreated dumps into Lake Michigan are now considered a public health concern. So in hindsight the building code that alowed leaky sewage pipe was screwed up. You could probably argue that allowing the installation of lead pipe was, in hindsight, a screwup.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
It really doesn't seem the same to me.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
As stated earlier, Detroit and Flint are similar in that they are broke and falling apart. There is little hope that either city will ever truly recover.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
They can't build apartments fast enough to keep up with the demand of young professionals flocking to Detroit. http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/michigan/2016/01/02/detroit-midtown-downtown-gilbert/78027012/
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
IMO the "safe corridor" in 5 years in Detroit will be Highland Park to the north, the lodge to the west, 75 to the east, the river. I can see everything west of Chene being developed after that, and I'd like to think the core city could extend past the lodge but those neighborhoods just west of downtown are still a ####### disaster and somewhat populated. There is money and talk going to the south SE side of Gratiot too, and really that area could be developed all the way down to Van Dyke.
The westside of the city is still viable, especially my old neighborhood west of the Southfield freeway. The Southwest has seen investment and population gain over the past 20+ years and areas like Springwells are attracting younger investors who are actually making a lot of progress. City will probably settle in the mid 600k population range and then I think come back to be a city of about 750k in 15-20 years. Parts of the city may never come back, lost to the ghetto forever, but the housing stock on the westside and far NE side is still very good. Have you driven down E Outer lately? From the outside those houses still look like they did in the 80s.
Flint is a different monster, it does not have the resources, the infrastructure, or the wherewithal to make a comeback anytime soon. I know the university district and hospital stuff brings some hope but I really think that city's throat was slit the day Buick moved out. I mean that was drastic, more drastic than any single event that ever happened in Detroit. Worse than the riots IMO. I worked in Flint for two years, every day in the ghetto. It's a rough place where I always felt people were more edgy, felt like they had less to lose. Same with Saginaw, the nation's aggravated assault capital.
The westside of the city is still viable, especially my old neighborhood west of the Southfield freeway. The Southwest has seen investment and population gain over the past 20+ years and areas like Springwells are attracting younger investors who are actually making a lot of progress. City will probably settle in the mid 600k population range and then I think come back to be a city of about 750k in 15-20 years. Parts of the city may never come back, lost to the ghetto forever, but the housing stock on the westside and far NE side is still very good. Have you driven down E Outer lately? From the outside those houses still look like they did in the 80s.
Flint is a different monster, it does not have the resources, the infrastructure, or the wherewithal to make a comeback anytime soon. I know the university district and hospital stuff brings some hope but I really think that city's throat was slit the day Buick moved out. I mean that was drastic, more drastic than any single event that ever happened in Detroit. Worse than the riots IMO. I worked in Flint for two years, every day in the ghetto. It's a rough place where I always felt people were more edgy, felt like they had less to lose. Same with Saginaw, the nation's aggravated assault capital.
timschochet
Footballguy
Pardon me as I'm not from the area and never been to Flint, but I fail to see why the economic condition of that city, and whether it's "doomed" or not, is even relevant. According to the 2010 census, there are 102,000 people living there. Doomed or not, that's a fairly sized city. If the water was poisoned because the governor was trying to save money, and if the governor was trying to cover it up, that's about as terrible a scandal in this country as I can remember in recent times.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
We're just having a sidebar because Doc Holiday is being a ####.
Flint is a bad place, like Stockton.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Pretty sad situation.
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