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Evilgrin 72

Official 2016 Pittsburgh Steelers Thread

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Might as well chuck this up now. Cockrell extended, a couple of futures contracts doled out. Let's get ready for the draft and the 2016 season. Currently 10-1 to win SB 51. F Vontaze Burfict.

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:towelwave: :towelwave: :towelwave:

You want the title in '16?

Earn a week off and play at home in the playoffs throughout.

Not much separated the Steelers, Patriots and Broncos. But HFA sure did.

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Big Ben hurt yet? :P

<----- #1 Fan of Panthers Football

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F Vontaze Burfict.

bump

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Could be a very exciting year if they shore up the secondary. :towelwave:

A great year for free agent secondary players.

Josh Norman

Eric Berry

Janoris Jenkins

Eric Weddle (31)

Leon Hall (31)

Tashaun Gipson

Trumaine Johnson

Casey Hayward

Walter Thurmond

Sean Smith

Reggie Nelson (32)

Prince Amukamura

Husain Abdullah (31)

Jeremy Lane

Rashad Johnson (30)

Mark Barron (LB/S)

William Gay (31)

Rodaney McLeod

Chris Conte

Patrick Robinson

Sterling Moore

Brandon Boykin

Jerraud Powers

Tyvonne Branch

Lewis Delmas

Will Allen (34)

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2016all.php

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I think that if they dip into the FA pool at corner, it will be dipping a toe at best. They're not going to pony up a 5 yr/$40M offer to a Josh Norman. Also, if they want to do much of anything beyond signing their own FAs, then either they're going to have to restructure several contracts (again) or cut bait on some guys currently on the projected 53. Either way, that results in dead money against the cap, which I abhor. They're finally out from under the LaMarr Woodley mess, hoping not to recreate that.

I believe Gay and (gulp) Antwon Blake will be on the roster next year, along with Cockrell and Golson. Boykin is gone. Cortez the (cap) Killer is the big question mark, do they bring him back or do they designate him a post June 1 cut to open a few million in cap room for this season (and go right back to putting dead money on the cap for next year)? Still, I think cutting Allen and Suisham opens a little over $7M in cap space while only dumping about $2M on the cap. I think that's a fair trade off. If they cut Moats, that's another $2.5M with only $600k of dead money. I'd consider that, as thin as they are at OLB, if Harrison returns for another year.

Not a lot of free agents. Beachum and Foster will have to be decided upon but after Villanueva showed a little something, I don't think Beachum is getting a panic deal. Coming off the injury, I hope they can resign him at a discount. Foster, who knows? I'd love to keep the line intact as I thought they did a fine job this year by and large, and they only should be better next year with a healthy Pouncey to anchor the middle (I hope.)

I don't see very much need to draft offensive players, except for a TE or some OL depth/prospects. I expect this to be a heavy defensive draft with at least one CB semi-early, hopefully a safety (and convert Doran Grant to safety if he's not fast enough to play CB - the kid can play football) and some pass-rushers. Another front line guy might not be a bad idea, especially if McClendon walks.

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:towelwave: :towelwave: :towelwave:

You want the title in '16?

Earn a week off and play at home in the playoffs throughout.

Not much separated the Steelers, Patriots and Broncos. But HFA sure did.

That and the little matter of Antonio Brown and DeAngelo Williams being out of commission for the Denver game. ;)

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Is Gradkowski the backup QB next year? I have no idea what his status is.

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Please, please bring in two new safeties. I can't watch Mike Mitchell play another down.

I've heard rumors that they like Doran Grant at safety. If that conversion pans out, it might be even more likely that they go after a guy like Cravens to be the box safety. That pairing is at least a year away from being startable, though, so they'll still need 2 guys with some experience. The window is open now.

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That said, I don't see them cutting Mitchell. He was better this year than last and it's a lot of dead money if they axe him. They've done it before (Woodley) but I don't know if the cap space it opens is worth the price, especially at such a thin position.

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I'd love to keep the line intact as I thought they did a fine job this year by and large, and they only should be better next year with a healthy Pouncey to anchor the middle (I hope.)

I know I've stated this before, and it probably isn't very popular, but I'm really not sure Pouncey's anywhere near as good as he's made out to be. He's constantly injured....yet the Steelers never seem to miss him overmuch when he's shelved. Yeah, he rocked as a rookie. How many actual games has he played since then though?

I don't think he sucks or anything, and I suppose I'd rather have him than not, but at some point the dude needs to play or that's a bunch of cash being flushed down the toilet.

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I'd love to keep the line intact as I thought they did a fine job this year by and large, and they only should be better next year with a healthy Pouncey to anchor the middle (I hope.)

I know I've stated this before, and it probably isn't very popular, but I'm really not sure Pouncey's anywhere near as good as he's made out to be. He's constantly injured....yet the Steelers never seem to miss him overmuch when he's shelved. Yeah, he rocked as a rookie. How many actual games has he played since then though?

I don't think he sucks or anything, and I suppose I'd rather have him than not, but at some point the dude needs to play or that's a bunch of cash being flushed down the toilet.

I agree. Coming off the injury I don't think he is tradeable but I wouldn't mind it if they did.

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I'd love to keep the line intact as I thought they did a fine job this year by and large, and they only should be better next year with a healthy Pouncey to anchor the middle (I hope.)

I know I've stated this before, and it probably isn't very popular, but I'm really not sure Pouncey's anywhere near as good as he's made out to be. He's constantly injured....yet the Steelers never seem to miss him overmuch when he's shelved. Yeah, he rocked as a rookie. How many actual games has he played since then though?

I don't think he sucks or anything, and I suppose I'd rather have him than not, but at some point the dude needs to play or that's a bunch of cash being flushed down the toilet.

I agree. Coming off the injury I don't think he is tradeable but I wouldn't mind it if they did.

The center position has a lot more to it than run blocking (which is what Wallace is good at). He controls the entire line, and if we go into the year without Foster and with AV at left tackle, then Pouncey will be invaluable. Wallace played pretty well, but Pouncey is by far the better player. If we had a worse QB than Big Ben then there would have been many more sacks this year, many due to interior pressure. Wallace was beat handedly by opposing DTs and DEs but Ben was able to avoid the pressure or get rid of the ball.

The same people who think Wallace is good enough and we don't miss Pouncey, think that Williams was good enough and we didn't miss Bell. Bell is far and away better than Williams. Any run where Williams got 5 yards, Bell would have probably got 10. It's things like that that are missed when watching games. Also, Pouncey's ability to pull and get out in front of plays is amazing, where as Wallace is more of a plodder who sometimes doesn't make the block in time.

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I'd love to keep the line intact as I thought they did a fine job this year by and large, and they only should be better next year with a healthy Pouncey to anchor the middle (I hope.)

I know I've stated this before, and it probably isn't very popular, but I'm really not sure Pouncey's anywhere near as good as he's made out to be. He's constantly injured....yet the Steelers never seem to miss him overmuch when he's shelved. Yeah, he rocked as a rookie. How many actual games has he played since then though?

I don't think he sucks or anything, and I suppose I'd rather have him than not, but at some point the dude needs to play or that's a bunch of cash being flushed down the toilet.

Judging solely on how a player is missed when he's gone, he's not all that important.

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The same people who think Wallace is good enough and we don't miss Pouncey, think that Williams was good enough and we didn't miss Bell.

No, those same people don't think that at all. At least not 100% of them.

Judging solely on how a player is missed when he's gone, he's not all that important.

This is precisely the point I was trying to make. Pouncey has missed a ton of time during his career and the Steelers have pretty much been winners anyway. That doesn't mean he sucks, it just means he isn't as irreplaceable as he is sometimes advertised. I mean, they've proven they can win without him because they've continued to win without him. And it's not like the offense/run game fell apart.

Whether it'd be different with a different QB is irrelevant. They have the QB they have.

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Steve McLendon DT 30 PIT TBD $2,808,334 UFA

Cam Thomas DE 29 PIT TBD $2,500,000 UFA

Ramon Foster G 30 PIT TBD $2,150,000 UFA

Bruce Gradkowski QB 32 PIT TBD $1,833,334 UFA

William Gay CB 31 PIT TBD $1,666,668 UFA

Kelvin Beachum LT 26 PIT TBD $1,553,474 UFA

Robert Golden FS 25 PIT TBD $1,542,000 UFA

Antwon Blake CB 25 PIT TBD $1,542,000 UFA

Brandon Boykin CB 25 PIT TBD $1,542,000 UFA

Will Johnson FB 27 PIT TBD $1,542,000 UFA

Mike Adams LT 25 PIT TBD $1,127,525 UFA

Sean Spence ILB 25 PIT TBD $816,345 UFA

Will Allen SS 33 PIT TBD $665,000 UFA

Clifton Geathers DE 28 PIT TBD $665,000 UFA

Greg Warren LS 34 PIT TBD $665,000 UFA

Darrius Heyward-Bey WR 28 PIT TBD $665,000 UFA

David Nelson WR 29 PIT TBD $585,000 UFA

Doug Legursky C 29 PIT TBD $585,000 UFA

Terence Garvin ILB 25 PIT TBD $585,000 RFA

Jordan Todman RB 25 PIT TBD $585,000 UFA

Michael Vick QB 35 PIT TBD $585,000 UFA

Byron Stingily RT 27 PIT TBD $427,058 UFA

Anthony Chickillo DE 24 PIT TBD $358,235 ERFA

Rob Blanchflower TE 25 PIT TBD $318,000 ERFA

Mitchell Van Dyk LT 25 PIT TBD $318,000 ERFA

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The same people who think Wallace is good enough and we don't miss Pouncey, think that Williams was good enough and we didn't miss Bell.

No, those same people don't think that at all. At least not 100% of them.

Judging solely on how a player is missed when he's gone, he's not all that important.

This is precisely the point I was trying to make. Pouncey has missed a ton of time during his career and the Steelers have pretty much been winners anyway. That doesn't mean he sucks, it just means he isn't as irreplaceable as he is sometimes advertised. I mean, they've proven they can win without him because they've continued to win without him. And it's not like the offense/run game fell apart.

Whether it'd be different with a different QB is irrelevant. They have the QB they have.

I don't remember the plays, but Big Ben got beat up pretty badly this year. Do you think the presence of Pouncey improves the whole line on pass plays to keep Ben safer than he was this year?

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That seems like an unusually long list of free agents. Is it always like that? With that said, not too many guys there that I am dying to keep: Foster, Beachem and the two corners. On the fence about McClendon myself. Btw, Tuitt has become such a beast on that line.

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I'd love to keep the line intact as I thought they did a fine job this year by and large, and they only should be better next year with a healthy Pouncey to anchor the middle (I hope.)

I know I've stated this before, and it probably isn't very popular, but I'm really not sure Pouncey's anywhere near as good as he's made out to be. He's constantly injured....yet the Steelers never seem to miss him overmuch when he's shelved. Yeah, he rocked as a rookie. How many actual games has he played since then though?

I don't think he sucks or anything, and I suppose I'd rather have him than not, but at some point the dude needs to play or that's a bunch of cash being flushed down the toilet.

Disagree with this. Wallace is not very good and he takes big dumb penalties. I feel like with Pouncey, the offense is a well oiled machine but with Wallace (and DeAngelo) it's more pedestrian. Not sure what Pouncey is worth but he is a big upgrade over Wallace.

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That seems like an unusually long list of free agents. Is it always like that? With that said, not too many guys there that I am dying to keep: Foster, Beachem and the two corners. On the fence about McClendon myself. Btw, Tuitt has become such a beast on that line.

Foster and Gay would be the biggest priorities from that group I would think. I know they like Blake so I think he is probably coming back. McClendon and Beachum if they come cheap. I liked what I saw with Todman and would be happy to have him back.

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I'd love to keep the line intact as I thought they did a fine job this year by and large, and they only should be better next year with a healthy Pouncey to anchor the middle (I hope.)

I know I've stated this before, and it probably isn't very popular, but I'm really not sure Pouncey's anywhere near as good as he's made out to be. He's constantly injured....yet the Steelers never seem to miss him overmuch when he's shelved. Yeah, he rocked as a rookie. How many actual games has he played since then though?

I don't think he sucks or anything, and I suppose I'd rather have him than not, but at some point the dude needs to play or that's a bunch of cash being flushed down the toilet.

Disagree with this. Wallace is not very good and he takes big dumb penalties. I feel like with Pouncey, the offense is a well oiled machine but with Wallace (and DeAngelo) it's more pedestrian. Not sure what Pouncey is worth but he is a big upgrade over Wallace.

Not much when he is on the sideline. I don't think anyone is questioning whether Pouncey is an upgrade over Wallace but the best ability is availability and he rarely is. A $10.5 million cap hit for a player that doesn't play really hurts.

Pouncey needs to put together a few healthy seasons (and postseasons) and start pulling his weight.

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Pouncey missed 3 regular season games his first 3 seasons. Then he missed a full season due to Decastro falling on the back of his knee. Then he missed this season due to an ankle injury AND an infection that occurred due to the plate put in his ankle. He's had some awful luck, but he's not injury prone or getting injured due to being out of shape (Woodley). There's no reason to assume he will miss another season due to a freak injury and he is very talented and a huge asset for our team.

Now, on to a different topic. Free Agency!

What do people think about the Steelers targeting Sean Smith from the Chiefs? Seems like a solid talent who wouldn't require a HUGE contract (i.e. Mike Mitchell).

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What do people think about the Steelers targeting Sean Smith from the Chiefs?

Wanted him when he was a free agent last time.

But honestly there are about 15 guys I wouldn't mind in a Steeler uniform on that defensivebacks FA list.

Love Gipsons nose for the ball. per roto- ESPN Cleveland doesn’t expect contract-year FS Tashaun Gipson to re-sign with the Browns.

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What do people think about the Steelers targeting Sean Smith from the Chiefs?

Wanted him when he was a free agent last time.

But honestly there are about 15 guys I wouldn't mind in a Steeler uniform on that defensivebacks FA list.

Love Gipsons nose for the ball. per roto- ESPN Cleveland doesn’t expect contract-year FS Tashaun Gipson to re-sign with the Browns.

I'd be 100% ok with that too! And agreed, so many looked interesting. Even Weddle who might be well over the peak of his career.

What if we got Eric Berry?

Won't happen, but we're allowed to dream until they all sign with other teams. And we'll end up signing someone "awesome" like Antwon Blake...

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What do people think about the Steelers targeting Sean Smith from the Chiefs?

Wanted him when he was a free agent last time.

But honestly there are about 15 guys I wouldn't mind in a Steeler uniform on that defensivebacks FA list.

Love Gipsons nose for the ball. per roto- ESPN Cleveland doesnt expect contract-year FS Tashaun Gipson to re-sign with the Browns.

I'd be 100% ok with that too! And agreed, so many looked interesting. Even Weddle who might be well over the peak of his career.

What if we got Eric Berry?

Won't happen, but we're allowed to dream until they all sign with other teams. And we'll end up signing someone "awesome" like Antwon Blake...

If we get Berry, then we are sacrificing somewhere else. It has never been the Steelers model to go after those top free agents. Zero chance.

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What do people think about the Steelers targeting Sean Smith from the Chiefs?

Wanted him when he was a free agent last time.

But honestly there are about 15 guys I wouldn't mind in a Steeler uniform on that defensivebacks FA list.

Love Gipsons nose for the ball. per roto- ESPN Cleveland doesnt expect contract-year FS Tashaun Gipson to re-sign with the Browns.

I'd be 100% ok with that too! And agreed, so many looked interesting. Even Weddle who might be well over the peak of his career.

What if we got Eric Berry?

Won't happen, but we're allowed to dream until they all sign with other teams. And we'll end up signing someone "awesome" like Antwon Blake...

If we get Berry, then we are sacrificing somewhere else. It has never been the Steelers model to go after those top free agents. Zero chance.

I think they could target one of Weddle, Gipson, or Sean Smith. They're either older and possibly cheaper but would want to go to a contender, or a talented player whose team won't pay to keep them but are in the $4-5 million per year range instead of the $6-7 million range. Similar to the Mitchell pickup.

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:towelwave:

Nothing to contribute, just black dotting. Talking to a Phin phan phriend about meeting for the game in Miami for a weekend of debauchery. Already pretty pumped for next year.

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I'd love to keep the line intact as I thought they did a fine job this year by and large, and they only should be better next year with a healthy Pouncey to anchor the middle (I hope.)

I know I've stated this before, and it probably isn't very popular, but I'm really not sure Pouncey's anywhere near as good as he's made out to be. He's constantly injured....yet the Steelers never seem to miss him overmuch when he's shelved. Yeah, he rocked as a rookie. How many actual games has he played since then though?

I don't think he sucks or anything, and I suppose I'd rather have him than not, but at some point the dude needs to play or that's a bunch of cash being flushed down the toilet.

Wallace is a huge downgrade from Pouncey. Hard to fault Pouncey's missed games via the freak injuries he's sustained from friendly fire. He's played the majority of the 4 seasons when he wasn't out for the year and was All Pro in each. Saying he's missed a lot of time or is rarely available is just not accurate. He's played injured and come back quickly from other injuries. Here's an older article detailing his injury history. http://www.steelersdepot.com/2014/06/look-back-injury-history-steelers-c-maurkice-pouncey/

Here's his games started stats since his rookie year.

2015 0

2014 16

2013 1

2012 15

2011 14

2010 16

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As far as draft, obviously much depends on what is available when it's time to pick but I'd think corner, qb, te, and dline are high on the list.

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So, saying Pouncey has missed a lot of time, when he's played 17 of a possible 48 regular season games the past three years and missed 33 of the last 55 total including playoffs, is just not accurate? Okay.

Nobody is saying Cody Wallace is better than Pouncey. But he has absolutely missed a ton of time. That's pretty much indisputable. He's missed playoff time early in his career too, even in the years where he made it through the whole season unless my memory is complete Swiss cheese. Pretty sure he was hurt for the playoffs his rookie year, IIRC. Missed the SB vs. Green Bay. Missed the WC round the following year too.

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So, saying Pouncey has missed a lot of time, when he's played 17 of a possible 48 regular season games the past three years and missed 33 of the last 55 total including playoffs, is just not accurate? Okay.

Nobody is saying Cody Wallace is better than Pouncey. But he has absolutely missed a ton of time. That's pretty much indisputable. He's missed playoff time early in his career too, even in the years where he made it through the whole season unless my memory is complete Swiss cheese. Pretty sure he was hurt for the playoffs his rookie year, IIRC. Missed the SB vs. Green Bay. Missed the WC round the following year too.

Records with him and without him? (sans Ben being injured)

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So, saying Pouncey has missed a lot of time, when he's played 17 of a possible 48 regular season games the past three years and missed 33 of the last 55 total including playoffs, is just not accurate? Okay.

Nobody is saying Cody Wallace is better than Pouncey. But he has absolutely missed a ton of time. That's pretty much indisputable. He's missed playoff time early in his career too, even in the years where he made it through the whole season unless my memory is complete Swiss cheese. Pretty sure he was hurt for the playoffs his rookie year, IIRC. Missed the SB vs. Green Bay. Missed the WC round the following year too.

Should they not try to keep Le'veon Bell under the same precedent? Being partly serious here. Guy has been injured every season with two decent MCL injuries. No one is going after him in the same manner they have gone after Pouncey.

My personal opinion is injuries happen in the NFL. The number of guys out this year was sky high. You try to keep the best talent that you draft. Pouncey is that. Now they need to do the same with Bell and Decastro.

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Bell certainly needs to stay healthier too. The reason I personally "don't go after him in the same manner" is that he isn't taking up 9 million dollars of cap space when he's shelved.

Im also of the opinion that it's easier to mitigate the loss of a starting C than the loss of your starting RB(usually. Yes, DeAngelo did a good job this year.).

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That's a questionable statement given this year. Tim Hightower, David Johnson, Checandrick West, Spencer Ware, Thomas Rawls, DeAngelo Williams, DMC, even Draughn, Michael had respectable and outstanding performances as backup RB's in '15. If anything I would say OLine is more important than a RB. Even one as good as Bell. How much of an impact has AD had in the playoffs? Combine that with the highest priced FA RB and top rusher in the NFL being a disaster on his new team, RB worth is as low as ever.

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I'll just agree to disagree and drop it. I'm not really attempting to change anyone's opinion on Pouncey and I guarantee no one is going to change mine.

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So, saying Pouncey has missed a lot of time, when he's played 17 of a possible 48 regular season games the past three years and missed 33 of the last 55 total including playoffs, is just not accurate? Okay.

Nobody is saying Cody Wallace is better than Pouncey. But he has absolutely missed a ton of time. That's pretty much indisputable. He's missed playoff time early in his career too, even in the years where he made it through the whole season unless my memory is complete Swiss cheese. Pretty sure he was hurt for the playoffs his rookie year, IIRC. Missed the SB vs. Green Bay. Missed the WC round the following year too.

Excluding the season ending injuries. Which were freak friendly fire injuries. Tough to fault a guy for having people falling on his legs and breaking ####.

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So, saying Pouncey has missed a lot of time, when he's played 17 of a possible 48 regular season games the past three years and missed 33 of the last 55 total including playoffs, is just not accurate? Okay.

Nobody is saying Cody Wallace is better than Pouncey. But he has absolutely missed a ton of time. That's pretty much indisputable. He's missed playoff time early in his career too, even in the years where he made it through the whole season unless my memory is complete Swiss cheese. Pretty sure he was hurt for the playoffs his rookie year, IIRC. Missed the SB vs. Green Bay. Missed the WC round the following year too.

Records with him and without him? (sans Ben being injured)

My opinion on that is they won in spite of Wallace, not because of him. Wallace was the most penalized interior lineman in the NFL. And he was constantly getting beat by the opposing defender and Ben took hits because of it. Sure, lets expose the 100M dollar qb to more hits because we want to save a few nickels on the guy in front of him.

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