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Fraudulent Home Buying Experience (1 Viewer)

Caesar

Footballguy
Here is the happenings.

My wife and I were home shopping at the end of October.  We had to settle a litlte bit on the house because no mortgage company would count my military retirement until after I got a proof of income, which I couldn't get until I was retired.  Stupid system, but not the point here.  We settled on a decent home which I knew had some minor cosmetic issues, but nothing major in that respect.  Mostly, you could tell a lot of the stuff was DIY.  The guy had some skills, but was clearly not a professional handyman.

Anyway, settle on the house.  Home inspector does his walkthrough and asks me to give him a call so he can discuss his report.  He goes through it and talks about some things here and there that are of small concern.  There is nothing too bad, but just some advice and recommendations for me.  There was two items I was truly concerned with out of the 15 listed.  The first was some indication of water in the basement.  The owner said that someone had unplugged his brand new sump pump and it just came up through the cracks a little.  This story checked out in every detail and the home inspector told me he believed it to be true as there was no other signs of water down there, like rust spots on the floor or mold or mildew.  So, I put in the contract to have a professional come out and make an assessment, which he did.

The other issue was the heat pump.  The home inspector told me that it was not coming on and that the house was running on emergency heat.  So, of course I make sure one of the stipulations of sale is that the heat pump be fixed.  At closing, a paper was produced (photocopy) of the business card for an HVAC guy, a note about the system running great, and a reciept for $495 for services, which included a new thermostat (which I didn't really care about).  OK, great.  Documentation that it was fixed is there.  We close on the house in mid December.

Fast forward to last Friday and I am getting a quote from a contractor on my basement finsihing job.  We notice the AC (same unit as heat pump) breaker is tripped.  Reset the breaker and when the unit should kick on, it trips.  Turns out the compressor is grounded, and in bad shape, and of course, the unit is out of warranty.  Soooooooo, new compressor which is going to run roughly 2K-3K with labor and the freon charge OR a whole new unit which will probably run me 5-7K.  (I am guessing here mostly)

Let me get this out of the way.  I am an idiot for not verifying operation, but hey, life sometimes gets in the way and it was a very mild winter here in Cincinnati.  Emergency heat (thought I didn't know that was the heat source) was keeping us warm and in talking to others, my electric bill was high, but not ridiculously out of the realm of feasibilty, so I never checked.  I suspected something wasn't right, but I just didn't have the opportunity to get someone out to look at it.  I am an idiot. 

But here is where it really gets interesting to me.  The realtor was representing both parties.  This is legal in Ohio, though I know it is not legal in some states.  Anyway, I call him and see if there is anything I can do about it since it was in the contract.  Well, we start by calling the technician who did the work in November.  Sure enough, I get an email back saying it was his card, but that was not his invoice form and not his handwriting on the receipt.  WTF?  So, here I sit at my new job, waiting for the realtor to call me back, wondering if this dude is going to get away with fraud.

So, what do you think?  Do I have recourse?  Even if its not fraud, something is not right. 

 
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So no purchaser's insurance?  It's pretty inexpensive.

In the meantime, yeah, the guy should be responsible - but it will likely be more expensive and time consuming to pursue than it will be worth, especially with a chance you will lose in the court ...or he just doesn't pay anyway.  

 
So no purchaser's insurance?  It's pretty inexpensive.

In the meantime, yeah, the guy should be responsible - but it will likely be more expensive and time consuming to pursue than it will be worth, especially with a chance you will lose in the court ...or he just doesn't pay anyway.  
As part of the agreement, the seller did purchase a home warranty, but reading through my papers, it maxes out at 2K.  The bill will exceed that for sure.

I am worried about the losses in court issue, but if he really committed fraud, I would think a whole world of #### could find its way into his life.  I don't think this is just a civil issue, it seems to me there is potential for criminal charges. 

Oh, and I agree, #### him!

 
 I would contact him via email immediately about what you've discovered. Explain to him that you spoke to the technician and ask for an explanation.

It's also possible that the  HVAC dude is lying to you.

I am imagine the threat of reporting his felony to the authorities should be enough to get him to pony up the necessary money to fix your issues.

 
 I would contact him via email immediately about what you've discovered. Explain to him that you spoke to the technician and ask for an explanation.

It's also possible that the  HVAC dude is lying to you.

I am imagine the threat of reporting his felony to the authorities should be enough to get him to pony up the necessary money to fix your issues.
I actually never met the guy.  I have bought/sold 7 times in the housing market and have only once ever sat down across the table from the other party.  I don't think I have an email address, but I would not make a threat. 

The HVAC guy could definitely be lying, but he would have no reason to unless there was something he was culpable for, which only makes my case stronger, IMO.

I did hear back from my real estate agent (don't have an attourney on retainer) and he is trying to contact the seller.  He is also going to talk to the home warranty company and try to help me get it taken care of.

As a funny side note, I found out the real estate agent's cousin is one of my mechanics (I'm a supervisor) who I haven't met because he had back surgery a couple months ago.  That's just weird.

 
I don't see how the realtor is culpable if the seller committed fraud.   I don't think he would risk his license just to sell it, especially representing both sides.
The realtor having repped both sides made a nice commission on a deal that potentially ended with one of the realtors clients committing fraud. It's well worth him kicking in to smooth it over.

 
The realtor having repped both sides made a nice commission on a deal that potentially ended with one of the realtors clients committing fraud. It's well worth him kicking in to smooth it over.
How many times do people ask you to take less than normal to do your job? I swear to God real estate is the only business where people think it's ok to ask a person to work for less than his normal wage. SMDH.

 
It's going to come down to he said/she said with seller and HVAC company. If I had to bet money my money would be on a lazy HVAC technician, but that's just a guess. There are some slimy people out there but most would be pretty hesitant to commit fraud I would think. I sell real estate and I've never experienced anything quite this shady, and I've been selling for 15 years. If your agent uses the home warranty company frequently he may have some pull with the service rep for the warranty company. He could certainly make them know that he may or may not continue to use them if they aren't going to look out for his customers. I've had to do that before.

 
Sounds like you've probably got a Section 198 claim.  I'd make a filing with IHDB and see what happens.

 
Who was the HVAC company? I have two HVAC clients in Cincinnati that may be able to treat you fair on that part of the deal.

 
It's going to come down to he said/she said with seller and HVAC company. If I had to bet money my money would be on a lazy HVAC technician, but that's just a guess. There are some slimy people out there but most would be pretty hesitant to commit fraud I would think. I sell real estate and I've never experienced anything quite this shady, and I've been selling for 15 years. If your agent uses the home warranty company frequently he may have some pull with the service rep for the warranty company. He could certainly make them know that he may or may not continue to use them if they aren't going to look out for his customers. I've had to do that before.
I'm an agent also.

I can rep both sides, but I would never recommend this to a buyer. The buyer needs someone to advocate for them in situations that come up and a realtor repping the seller isn't likely to do that.    

First page of my buyers rep agreement states that I'm not responsible for any third party issues. Just issues I create.

 
Who was the HVAC company? I have two HVAC clients in Cincinnati that may be able to treat you fair on that part of the deal.
I am not sure what to think about this anymore.  I am home now and did a search for the name of it, and one came up in Burlington, KY, which is about 45 minutes from here.  The problem is that the phone number doesn't match.  Burlington is close enough to believe it could be the company, but the number on the photocopied business card doesn't match.  There is no address, but it does say HVAC insured and gives a number starting with M followed by 5 digits.  Any way to find out who insures them?

For all I know at this point, it could be some scam artist off Craigslist.  He originally answered the phone "hello?"  Most businesses answer with the company name, which leads me to believe it was a personal phone.  

Should I contact an attorney?  I feel like I got Lewinskied.

 
It's going to come down to he said/she said with seller and HVAC company. If I had to bet money my money would be on a lazy HVAC technician, but that's just a guess. There are some slimy people out there but most would be pretty hesitant to commit fraud I would think. I sell real estate and I've never experienced anything quite this shady, and I've been selling for 15 years. If your agent uses the home warranty company frequently he may have some pull with the service rep for the warranty company. He could certainly make them know that he may or may not continue to use them if they aren't going to look out for his customers. I've had to do that before.
He does use them quite frequently, so he is going to call the rep and try to get some help for me.  

I can't seem to throw a rock around here without hitting an HVAC company, there are so many of them.  Impossible to tell who is legit and who isn't.  The last contractor I had come out seemed really solid and really seemed to know what he is doing.  He gave me a name, and if I have a choice, I will likely go with him.

 
How many times do people ask you to take less than normal to do your job? I swear to God real estate is the only business where people think it's ok to ask a person to work for less than his normal wage. SMDH.
Because most people think agents are paid way more than they're worth.  It's always been this way.

 
How many times do people ask you to take less than normal to do your job? I swear to God real estate is the only business where people think it's ok to ask a person to work for less than his normal wage. SMDH.
Nah.  People ask lawyers to reduce our fees every day.

 
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I can't seem to throw a rock around here without hitting an HVAC company, there are so many of them.  Impossible to tell who is legit and who isn't.  The last contractor I had come out seemed really solid and really seemed to know what he is doing.  He gave me a name, and if I have a choice, I will likely go with him.
This situation sucks and I feel for you. It's hard to tell who's lying here but someone certainly is trying to pull a fast one IMO.

As for HVAC companies; I live in Cincy also and have a friend who does all my work. Great guy and he own his own business. If you're interested you can send me a PM and I'll give you his contact info.

 
We had to settle a litlte bit on the house because no mortgage company would count my military retirement until after I got a proof of income, which I couldn't get until I was retired.  Stupid system, but not the point here.
Blame your government. To make a long story short- banks have to show that they did everything that they could in due diligence to prove that you should be able to repay the loan. If not, they may be on the hook for a few billion to hand over to the government. Huge liability here now and a big part of the reason mortgages are such a pain in the rear now. Went from too loose to too tight in underwriting and verification.

 
How many times do people ask you to take less than normal to do your job? I swear to God real estate is the only business where people think it's ok to ask a person to work for less than his normal wage. SMDH.
A smart agent will give something short term for long term referrals. Think of it like marketing.

Pretty much everyone in the service business kicks in to smooth things over.

 
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Blame your government. To make a long story short- banks have to show that they did everything that they could in due diligence to prove that you should be able to repay the loan. If not, they may be on the hook for a few billion to hand over to the government. Huge liability here now and a big part of the reason mortgages are such a pain in the rear now. Went from too loose to too tight in underwriting and verification.
It's the banks fault that 2008 happened so I'd rather it go too far the other way.  Screw the banks.

 
Just went through it and I was fine with it.  It didn't feel onerous to me at all.
That's good but I hear it all the time. And the thinking is usually 'screw the banks' rather than realizing the banks have no real choice to do things a certain way. Of course, banks are big and evil so it is easy to hate on them but you have to remember that with regulations the burden have a cost which always impacts the customer in various ways. The lending process is much more involved process now and that is partly due to a normal correction from being too loose but also (and with a heavier hand) the regulatory burden.

 
Seriously though this time. Have you looked into filing a 43(a) protest?  Ask your lawyer about it. 

 
The HVAC guy who says it wasn't his signature is now hitting me up for the work to replace the unit. 

Thinking I will go another direction with that one.

 
But here is where it really gets interesting to me.  The realtor was representing both parties.  This is legal in Ohio, though I know it is not legal in some states.
Why did you not have your own agent?

 
What did he do wrong?
If he is telling the truth, then probably nothing.  However, if I do end up with a civil action, and he has to make a statement, or is subpeona'd (?) then I don't think it would look too good that he were the one to come out and fix the problem.  Having a business relationship with your main witness, albeit a professional one, might not look so good after the fact.

Secondly, I don't think the home warranty company is going to let me choose who does the work.  If they do, I already will lean towards someone else I know.

I appreciate the offers for HVAC service, and if the home warranty allows me to make a choice, I might take someone up on the offer if my guy falls through, but I don't think it would be best served for me to hire the guy who could be named in a suit, especially if it comes to he said, he said, as was mentioned by someone earlier.

 
Why did you not have your own agent?
I had been using my agent all the way back in September.  Something fell through for us for stupid reasons, and I kept using him.  He gave me a bunch of listings and the wife and I went to look at many of them.  We decided on the house that we are in now despite the fact that it was being sold by my agent.  It really didn't come up as too much of an issue. 

Lesson learned.  I do not think I would do that again, and not because of the agent.  I think he was, and has been, extremely professional throughout this. 

 
I had been using my agent all the way back in September.  Something fell through for us for stupid reasons, and I kept using him.  He gave me a bunch of listings and the wife and I went to look at many of them.  We decided on the house that we are in now despite the fact that it was being sold by my agent.  It really didn't come up as too much of an issue. 

Lesson learned.  I do not think I would do that again, and not because of the agent.  I think he was, and has been, extremely professional throughout this. 
Gotcha.  I do understand wanting to be loyal to the guy but unless using the seller's agent as your own increases your odds of getting the sale (the biggest advantage is they know what the seller wants more than anyone) then you should also find another agent. Have your guy refer someone for you so he gets paid while you get good representation.

 

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