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Grammar question (1 Viewer)

Scoresman

Footballguy
This has been bothering me for a long time.  Take the two phrases below .

"San Francisco are down by a touchdown at the end of the half"

"San Francisco is down by a touchdown at the end of the half."

Are both of these correct? I hear commentators use the first all the time and it drives me crazy because it just sounds wrong.  "San Francisco" is one city, one team, so why isnt the singular "is" used in this case?  But I hear the first used all the time so it must be right I guess.  Drives me nuts.

 
If you watch a lot of soccer you might notice that the British always refer to a team as a plural.   "Gryffindor are down 180 to 60 to Hufflepuff, still no sign of the Golden Snitch."

 
This has been bothering me for a long time.  Take the two phrases below .

"San Francisco are down by a touchdown at the end of the half"

"San Francisco is down by a touchdown at the end of the half."

Are both of these correct? I hear commentators use the first all the time and it drives me crazy because it just sounds wrong.  "San Francisco" is one city, one team, so why isnt the singular "is" used in this case?  But I hear the first used all the time so it must be right I guess.  Drives me nuts.
I say "are" because it corresponds with the pronoun I'd use in that situation. 

"What's the score of the San Fran game?"  I'd reply, "They are down by a TD," not "It is down by a TD."

I also kinda do it because I know it pisses people off.  

 
I dislike when people say the Heat or Magic "are" something.  "Is" sounds right.  Oddly, though, I like "are" with the Jazz.

 
San Francisco is down...

The team is down...

The 49ers are down...

Locale or geographic location is singular.  Team name is plural (even Heat, Thunder, etc.)

They are down... They're not coming back...  I don't know why I bet on them again...

 
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I say "are" because it corresponds with the pronoun I'd use in that situation. 

"What's the score of the San Fran game?"  I'd reply, "They are down by a TD," not "It is down by a TD."

I also kinda do it because I know it pisses people off.  
:no:

They = plural ... hence, "are".  Your usage is right.

But if you're referring to the team using the city name, it's singular, hence "is".

Not sure how it could be looked at any differently from a grammatical standpoint.  :coffee:

 
:no:

They = plural ... hence, "are".  Your usage is right.

But if you're referring to the team using the city name, it's singular, hence "is".

Not sure how it could be looked at any differently from a grammatical standpoint.  :coffee:
I agree but "are" is used so much, and not just in British broadcasts/articles.

 
:no:

They = plural ... hence, "are".  Your usage is right.

But if you're referring to the team using the city name, it's singular, hence "is".

Not sure how it could be looked at any differently from a grammatical standpoint.  :coffee:
This is the only correct answer.

 
:no:

They = plural ... hence, "are".  Your usage is right.

But if you're referring to the team using the city name, it's singular, hence "is".

Not sure how it could be looked at any differently from a grammatical standpoint.  :coffee:
I think the serious answer is that both are acceptable in general, and in particular you would prefer "is" when referring to "the team" as a singular entity and "are" when referring to "the team" as a group of players.  Sometimes even that distinction isn't clear, so ultimately I think just use whichever you prefer.  

 
I think the serious answer is that both are acceptable in general, and in particular you would prefer "is" when referring to "the team" as a singular entity and "are" when referring to "the team" as a group of players.  Sometimes even that distinction isn't clear, so ultimately I think just use whichever you prefer.  
When referring to the team as a group of players, you wouldn't say San Francisco. You'd say the 49ers.

 
In the context of "San Francisco scored a touchdown" or "The 49ers scored a touchdown" or "The team scored a touchdown," all three of those subjects are interchangeable; all refer to a collective noun.

Obviously, there are other contexts where they are not interchangeable, and the rule you expressed for "San Francisco" is correct in most other circumstances.

 
In the context of "San Francisco scored a touchdown" or "The 49ers scored a touchdown" or "The team scored a touchdown," all three of those subjects are interchangeable; all refer to a collective noun.
They're not interchangeable.  They look interchangeable because the past tense of "scored" is spelled and pronounced the same way whether singular or plural. To see that the three subjects differ in number, try it with "is on its way to scoring a touchdown."

San Francisco is on its way to scoring a touchdown. (Never are.)

The 49ers are on their way to scoring a touchdown.  (Never is.)

The team is on its way to scoring a touchdown. (Collective noun. Singular is more appropriate here because scoring a touchdown is something it does as a single unit. But you could say that the team are on their way to visit their families -- so both "team is" and "team are" may be appropriate depending on context. "The 49ers is" or "San Francisco are" are never appropriate.)

 
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How about "San Francisco have placed themselves in scoring position"?

 
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:no:

They = plural ... hence, "are".  Your usage is right.

But if you're referring to the team using the city name, it's singular, hence "is".

Not sure how it could be looked at any differently from a grammatical standpoint.  :coffee:
This is the only correct answer.
This is correct.  In the cases outlined above "San Francisco" is the adjective telling us which 49ers we are talking about OR it's the singular city they are talking about.  Singular uses "is" not "are"....that's for the plural.  

 
But you're cool with "themselves".... interesting.
It would be less confusing to use the team name rather than the city name. That could be what's causing the disconnect.

Also, all this talk of San Francisco scoring could be confusing people that watch football. Maybe we should switch to interceptions or fumbles. 

 
Seems like a lot of sports "journalists" are flubbing this now that English soccer is more of a mainstream sport, and it has just bled from there.

PS why do Americans writing about soccer use English jargon (eg "kit" instead of uniform, "pitch" instead of field)?

 
grammer question all right i am here to help fire away brohan take that to the bank

 

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